Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Hoh boy! Back to legs and shoes, is it Fred? And we have six sets, already. On my day of rest, no less. Did you notice that only the one on the far left appears to have both heels solidily down on the floor. She's my pick for the most sensible one of the lot.
Posted by: Richard of Oregon ||
08/24/2008 9:40 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Let me begin by saying that i love your site rantburg.com a lot
now.. back to business lol
I cant say that i agree with what you wrote... care to clear things up for me?
Posted by: christian ||
08/24/2008 9:54 Comments ||
Top||
#4
Thank you Nimble Spemble for clearing that up for me.
Christian, I'm not quite sure what you don't understand. It's just a whimsical statement about an old picture of 6 beautiful women. I only meant little joke, nothing deep.
Posted by: Richard of Oregon ||
08/24/2008 11:11 Comments ||
Top||
#12
wow! I feel doubly offended: that you redacted it, and that I said something that lame. I guess we're OK, then.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 20:41 Comments ||
Top||
#13
Let me begin by saying that i really like your site 207.114.86.27 a lot
now.. back on topic lol
I cant say that fully agree with what you wrote... care to clear things up for me?
Posted by: christian ||
08/24/2008 23:21 Comments ||
Top||
#14
Shouldn't bots be required to exercise just a smidgen of originality?
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has condemned a U.S. airstrike in western Afghanistan that some Afghan officials say killed more than 70 civilians on Thursday. VOA's Barry Newhouse reports from Islamabad that the U.S. military disputes the number of civilian casualties and insists the operation was a successful strike against a wanted Taliban commander.
President Hamid Karzai's office issued a statement Saturday strongly condemning what it called a "unilateral operation of Coalition Forces" in the Shindand district of Herat Province. The statement said local political and security officials reported at least 70 people, including women and children were killed in the airstrike.
The U.S. military disputes the civilian casualty figures and says troops called for airstrikes after a group of wanted militants fired on a joint patrol of coalition and Afghan forces.
U.S. coalition spokesman, First Lieutenant Nathan Perry, told VOA the troops were able to search the compound following the battle to confirm the casualty figures. He says five civilians, who were believed to be related to the militants, were among the 30 people killed in the strike.
"There was already a battlefield assessment of this operation," said the spokesman. "We want to point out that this was an Afghan army operation. Coalition troops were in support of the Afghan operation. And after the operation, those troops on the ground were able to do a battlefield assessment. Not only did they confirm that they killed 25 militants, they also confirmed the main target that they were in pursuit of."
The spokesman said despite the initial battlefield assessment, U.S.-led coalition forces have launched an investigation into the airstrike. Afghan officials have also called for an investigation.
Civilians deaths from U.S. airstrikes are a contentious issue in Afghanistan and in recent months the Afghan government has been more assertive in publicly rebuking foreign allied forces for civilian casualties. President Karzai said Saturday that so far, Afghan efforts to stop civilian casualties have not had "desired outcomes." The president said the government will soon announce new initiatives for avoiding civilian deaths.
In the village in Herat where Thursday's airstrike occurred, hundreds of locals protested Saturday after rejecting offers of food and other aid from Afghan military troops. Local media reports said some of the protesters turned violent and soldiers fired on the crowd, injuring several people.
#1
Death toll continues to rise. At this rate in a couple of months this raid will have been responsible for the complete elimination of all civilians in Afghanistan. Human rights group says 88 Afghans killed
#2
U.S. coalition spokesman, First Lieutenant Nathan Perry, told VOA the troops were able to search the compound following the battle to confirm the casualty figures.
That's gotta have some politicians' turbans in a knot.
He says five civilians, who were believed to be related to the militants, were among the 30 people killed in the strike.
Tragic considering they had such great potential as pillars of the community.
"And after the operation, those troops on the ground were able to do a battlefield assessment. Not only did they confirm that they killed 25 militants, they also confirmed the main target that they were in pursuit of."
Heh. If they had waited until the Afghan authorities had arrived all the dead would have been buried in an undisclosed location, which would have been proof positive that every one of them was a woman or child. And every grieving family would have already filled out the paperwork for monetary compensation and would be queued up to hand to those same authorities when they arrived.
The spokesman said despite the initial battlefield assessment, U.S.-led coalition forces have launched an investigation into the airstrike. Afghan officials have also called for an investigation.
Despite. Interesting choice of words. I would have said something more like "in order to intercept the large number of anticipated fraudulent compensation claims involving the deaths of more people than the village has members, we did a preliminary battlefield assessment before they could whisk away the evidence to the contrary."
Civilians deaths from U.S. airstrikes are a contentious issue in Afghanistan and in recent months the Afghan government has been more assertive in publicly rebuking foreign allied forces for civilian casualties for political gain.
President Karzai said Saturday that so far, Afghan efforts to stop civilian casualties have not had "desired outcomes." The president said the government will soon announce new initiatives for avoiding civilian deaths.
Want to bring civilian deaths to a complete halt? Kill all the Taliban as fast as you can. At the rate the Taliban seem to kill civilians, it would be more than worth it in body-count alone, not to mention lifestyle, to kill 10 civilians just to kill one Talib. Keep that in mind as you make your plans.
In the village in Herat where Thursday's airstrike occurred, hundreds of locals protested Saturday after rejecting offers of food and other aid but not money from Afghan military troops. Local media reports said some of the protesters turned violent and soldiers fired on the crowd, injuring several people.
Show us your fluffy bunnies, and we'll show you our combat footage.
It's 3:00 in the morning. Do you know what your relatives are up to?
#4
He's probably being accused by some enemy of being a lapdog of America, so we're throwing him a PR bone that costs us nothing, so he can show how "independent" he is.
It's SOP in these things. Nothing personal. We understand.
#8
Terrorists are able to mix with civilian populace through intimidation and brainwashing. The NATO and ANA forces dont have that kind of weapon and shield.
#10
Is Karzai going to have an "accident" in the near future? If we behaved as the Russians did, he'd have been dead a year ago.
There are Pashtuns on both sides of the Afghan/Pakistan border. Many have close family ties. Both are great at carrying grudges and lying. The only way to curtail all the bs is to play as if that border doesn't exist. We tried with Perv, and failed. It's time to step on Gomez' head and tell him what we're going to do, and what he's going to agree to. Either that or pakistan disappears from the world maps. No other solution exists.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
08/24/2008 13:41 Comments ||
Top||
#11
Talibunnies hide in burkas, and behind women and children all the time. The only think they more comfortable behind is the family goat.
Posted by: Deacon Blues ||
08/24/2008 15:53 Comments ||
Top||
#13
I hope that the U. S. pays full damages to the surviving family members.
Posted by: James ||
08/24/2008 16:05 Comments ||
Top||
#14
Deac, none of the folks are friends to anyone other than their tribe.
All we require of them is that they not be our enemy.
However, its getting to the point whre I think we should maybe do forced relocations of these tribes to break them up. Sure they'll hate us but they already do.
Just be sure to seed the ground of their old areas with radioactive dust (cobalt, iirc is the basis). Renders it deadly for a few years, unsuitable for transportation for about a decade, uninhabitable for about 50-60 years, but should be 100% safe within 100 years (no radiation above normal background). The magic of half life radiation.
#15
Muslims are NOT our friends. Should be tattooed on every one of our leaders' foreheads.
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 16:35 Comments ||
Top||
#16
Some are, ed. Some are. Including some I know who serve in the US military and have served well in places like Iraq.
They are a small minority, those soldiers. But it's a mistake and fundamentally inaccurate to tar them with the same brush as the Taliban or the terror networks IMO.
#17
On the contrary. Jihad, plunder, forced conversion, slavery or death of nonmuslims is the foundation of islam. That automatically makes muslims not your friends. The heretic sects that have progressed beyond that, like Ahmadiyyas or Baha'is, are persecuted and hunted down by the mainstream muslims.
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 16:59 Comments ||
Top||
#18
The fundamentalists sure do want everyone to believe that all Muslims must buy that crap literally. And a lot of Muslims do, especially in the tribal 3rd world.
But there are a bunch of people who call themselves Muslim for cultural and family reasons who have no interest in violent jihad etc. Your equation of Islam = jihad/sharia/etc. = all who call themselves Muslim just doesn't hold.
The fundies will probably win the argument. But let's not help them do it. I'm not aching to kill 1.5 billion people who label themselves Muslim even tho I recognize that we may well find ourselves in a bloody worldwide battle if we can't build and support responsibly acting governments in Muslim countries.
#19
I'm sure a lot of Europeans thought just like that in the 1950's about all those muslim workers they brought in. They sure were a peaceful lot. Now the Euros, to their everlasting regret, rue the day, many to the tune of losing their countries in 2-3 decades.
What "peaceful" muslims you may believe exist will turn on you and me just as viciously as the "silent minority" are turning of their European hosts if they ever feel they in position to gain power. The koran is clear: the world is for allah - not you.
Muslims are the "silent majority" only when it comes to criticizing the mass murder and rapine of muslims. Anything else and they are the most sensitive rectums on the planet.
If your "peaceful muslims" truly want to enter the modern world and be our friends, let them renounce their doctrine of conversion by the sword, the subversion of our society, and the calls for our conquest or deaths from mosques in Dearborn, Dallas, Chicago, Tampa, Tucson, New York, LA, ... Or better yet, leave islam. Otherwise, the only sane survival strategy is to quarantine muslims in the hellholes of their own making and meet them with bullets when they try to break out.
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 17:33 Comments ||
Top||
#20
Muslims are the "silent majority" only when it comes to criticizing the mass murder and rapine by muslims.
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 17:37 Comments ||
Top||
#21
Pull out. Wait until Binny, Knot Head and Blinky feel safe enough to return then bomb the crap out of them. Problem solved. Just don't tell the Paks when we're gonna do it. (Couldn't Clinton have used some of those "invisible" stealth bombers without notifying the Paks instead of blowing it like he did with cruise missles?)
Either that or go into PakiLand after them and get it over with. The current status quo isn't serving any purpose. I don't believe we'll ever civilize that country and I don't believe it's worth the effort to try.
#22
How many Christians believe that the bible is literally the word of God, and that every word, however contradictory to other words, must by definition be equally true? How many people call themselves Christian who are neither church members nor quite certain that God exists, as a convenient label? How many keep Christmas only as a family holiday for Christmas lights and gifts, and Easter for the children to get chocolate rabbits, yet never discuss the religious reason these are holy days? For how many Jews is the Passover Seder meal the only holiday they keep, and only because Mom isn't up to cooking that meal or Thanksgiving dinner any more?
Statistically speaking, the odds are better than otherwise that there is a silent minority of those who call themselves Muslim who are unbelievers (even secret converts to other religions, mostly Christianity), uninvolved, and keeping the major holidays only when they go to visit their parents. We know there is an even smaller minority that are fighting on our side, or working actively to undermine the jihadis, either covertly or overtly. Covertly we have seen some of the reports of here; overtly we have read speeches, articles, interviews and news stories about those who speak out. Only the other day I saw an interview here about aGazan Hamas leader's son who converted to Christianity, and I've read several articles about the former Palestinian terrorist who now gives speeches at universities across North America about the threat of jihadi groups to Western civilization. He converted to Christianity, too, if I recall correctly.
Heavy fighting between the Union of Islamic Courts fighters and local clans kills at least 23 in the northern Afkala Haya region of Somalia. On Monday, militiamen loyal to the transitional federal governmen's former defense minister Barre Adan Shire Hiiraale, exchanged heavy fire with ICU forces in the Afkala Haya disctrict and at a check point leading to Afmadow killing 23 people.
According to Press TV's correspondent in Somalia, Hiiraale has been forced to flee to the Gedo region and hundreds of Somalians are escaping the area where the violence took place and heading towards Afmadow.
More than 79 civilians have been hospitalized in Afmadow following the outbreak of violence.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: Islamic Courts
Unidentified gunmen kidnapped two Western journalists on Saturday near Somalia's capital Mogadishu, residents and a security source said. The pair, believed to be an Australian man and Canadian woman, were apparently seized during a visit to camps for displaced civilians at Elasha, south of the city.
"We heard that unknown gunmen abducted two foreign journalists, a white man and a white woman," Fatuma Ali, a primary school teacher in Elasha, told Reuters by telephone.
Mohamed Ajos, head of security at Mogadishu's Shamo Hotel, said the pair had been staying there. "They left us this morning to visit internally displaced camps on the outskirts of Mogadishu," he told Reuters. "Now they are nowhere to be found. They were accompanied by a Somali translator and were to visit parts of Lower Shabelle region. They are believed to have been kidnapped."
Ajos and another source at the hotel said the pair were freelance journalists and named them as Nigel, a 27-year-old Australian, and Amanda, 26, a Canadian, whose surname Canada's Global Television network gave as Lindhout, saying she was a freelance journalist from Sylvan Lake, Alberta.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: Islamic Courts
Bodies littered the streets of Somalia's strategic southern port of Kismayu on Saturday, a day after it was seized by Islamist rebels in fighting that killed at least 70 people.
"We are now collecting the corpses lying in the streets," resident Mohamed Farah, 55, told Reuters. "The town is calm today and we're busy burying the victims of the fighting. The Islamists are at the abandoned sea and air ports, and people here are hoping to reopen their businesses."
Since the start of last year, al-Shabaab rebels have been waging an Iraq-style insurgency of mortar attacks, roadside bombings and assassinations, targeting the fragile administration and its Ethiopian military allies.
The loss of Kismayu to the al-Shabaab insurgents was another blow for Somalia's interim government, which signed a peace deal with some opposition figures last week that has only seemed to stoke violence in the Horn of Africa nation. The artillery and gun battles that broke out on Wednesday around Kismayu were the heaviest in the area for months. Medical workers said at least 140 people had been wounded.
Fearful residents said large, unidentified aircraft had been flying over the area since then. "We don't know what will happen, but we are scared," said another local man, Hussein Ahmed, 35. It was not clear who sent the planes.
Many in Kismayu fear the pro-government clan militia that fled the town on Friday might soon try to regroup to retake it. "The capture of Kismayu by al-Shabaab may bring us a new disaster," Fatuma Mohamud, a local mother-of-four, told Reuters. "We're afraid our town will become like Mogadishu, where explosions and hit-and-run attacks are order of the day."
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: Islamic Courts
#1
Ya ever wonder what the criteria is that makes a port in Somalia "strategic"?
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
08/24/2008 9:46 Comments ||
Top||
#2
Maybe its where the motherships operate out of. For an economy that has 'Piracy' as a major element, that is strategic.
Algerian troops killed 10 Islamist militants during a security operation on Sunday in the western province of Ain Defla, the interior ministry said. The ministry gave no details of the incident, but said security forces recovered five Kalashnikovs, four semi-automatic rifles and a grenade launcher during the operation, which followed a week of violence in the North African country. ...
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 18:13 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
The Turkish Army killed two separatist Kurdish rebels in clashes in the southeast of the country, authorities said Friday. The Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) rebels were killed in fighting in Hakkari Province near the border with Iran and Iraq and fighting was continuing, the provincial government said.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
Jammu and Kashmir authorities have initiated a crackdown against protesters across the State, ahead of the conclusion of a deal on the communally-charged Amarnath shrine land-use dispute.
State government sources said an announcement on the shrine land deal — which was expected to involve the Shri Amarnathji Shrine Board being allowed the temporary use of forest land to house pilgrims, and the nomination of both Muslim and Hindu state subjects to the body — would be made as soon as a new police drive against hardline Islamists and Hindutva groups gathered pace.
Kashmir division is bracing to block a massive march to SrinagarÂ’s historic Lal Chowk by secessionist groups, scheduled for Monday.
State government sources said police had been ordered to enforce the curfew imposed on Saturday night. Army troops in rural Kashmir have also been told to block the movement of protesters towards Srinagar.
Police have been given orders to arrest key second-rung secessionist leaders responsible for organising anti-India protests, including Shabbir Shah, Massrat Alam and Naim Khan.
In the Jammu division, too, authorities have begun cracking the whip against politicians responsible for violence against the regionÂ’s Muslims and attacks on Kashmir-bound traffic.
Kathua resident Dalip Kumar, a Hindutva activist alleged to have had a key role in the violence, was arrested under the Public Safety Act, a controversial preventive detention law that allows suspects to be held for up to two years without trial.
Police are also seeking to arrest Dinesh Bharati, an ultra-right wing cleric who has delivered a number of abusive anti-Muslim sermons and calls for cutting supplies to Kashmir.
New DelhiÂ’s decision to act against the secessionist leadership was taken after reviewing FridayÂ’s Islamist-led mobilisation in Srinagar, which saw at least 250,000 protesters gather at the cityÂ’s Idgah after police withdrew rather than risk clashes with pro-Pakistan and pro-independence protesters.
“We felt that the State government’s soft handling of the pro-Pakistan protests had empowered secessionists, a senior Union Home Ministry official told The Hindu.
Posted by: john frum ||
08/24/2008 19:43 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under:
SRINAGAR: In a late night swoop, the Jammu and Kashmir police accompanied by central para-military forces on Sunday night arrested fire-brand Jamaat-e-Islamia leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Hurriyat Conference Chairman Mirwaiz Umer Farooq from their residences, hours before the separatists were planning to march to Lal Chowk.
Police accompanied by para-military forces came to the Hyderpora residence of Geelani and picked him up. Another team picked up the Mirwaiz from his house and both were whisked away to an unknown destination, official sources said.
Both were arrested under section 107 of Ranbir Penal Code under which any person can be placed under arrest who instigates a crowd which may lead to law and order problem.
Meanwhile, Army had been pressed into service to maintain safety of the national highways leading to Kupwara and Leh as separatist leaders including Shabir Shah, Nayeem Khan and Masarat Alam were likely to lead processions towards Lal Chowk.
These leaders had managed to escape arrest and police was looking for them.
Posted by: john frum ||
08/24/2008 17:34 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[4 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
I was thinking Paki PM Geelani. Nevermind.
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 17:46 Comments ||
Top||
SRINAGAR: In fresh violence, one person was killed and 40 injured when security forces opened fire and lobbed tear gas shells after curfew clamped in the entire Kashmir valley on Sunday was defied by protestors at several places.
Appealing for calm, authorities braced for the rally called by separatists at Srinagar's Lal Chowk on Monday and curfew imposed in all the 10 districts of the Kashmir Valley for the second time in a week as a precautionary measure. Several separatist leaders were put under house arrest ahead of the rally to protest against what they called the "failure" of the Centre to resolve the Kashmir issue. Authorities also feared there may be some threat to the lives of the separatist leaders.
Police said a man identified as Ghulam Qadir Hajjam was killed when a stray bullet hit him when protestors attempted to defy curfew. His son also sustained injuries.
The incident took place in the Dalgate area on Sunday evening when the protesters tried to storm the battalion headquarters of paramilitary forces, police said. Security forces had to resort to firing after repeated cane charging and bursting of tear gas shells failed to disperse the mob protesting against the clamping of curfew.
A CRPF spokesman Prabhakar Tripathy said the security forces had to open fire as the father-son duo tried to attack their camp, killing one person and wounding another.
Citing "absolutely imperative" reasons, the Jammu and Kashmir government meanwhile restricted local TV channels from broadcasting news and current affairs programmes with immediate effect on the eve of separatists' rally.
In the police crackdown on separatists leaders on the eve of their rally, Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Mohammad Yasin Malik were put under house arrest. Regarding the ban imposed on some programmes of local channels, an official statement said "the situation was carefully assessed by the administration and it was felt that it had become absolutely imperative to take action under law against these channels in larger public interest and for maintenance of public order".
Accusing the managements of local channels of not complying with the administrations earlier directions and notices in this regard, an official spokesperson said that now "notices had been issued to them (local channels) not to telecast any such news or any other item which could vitiate the law and order situation and inflame passions with a view to fuelling public disorder".
To register their protest against the order, the cable TV operators decided to shut down their operations till it was revoked, a spokesman of the TV channels said.
Around 20 people, including five police personnel, were injured when security forces lobbed teargas shells to disperse a stone-pelting crowd of protesters in Beerwah in Budgam district of Central Kashmir, sources said. Police also fired some warning shots and lobbed tear gas shells to disperse over 15,000 people who assembled after hearing reports of alleged desecration of a Holy Book in Handwara area of Kupwara district, sources said. An official spokesman however vehemently denied the reports saying they were "rumours" aimed at bringing people out into the streets.
In the ensuing clashes, 16 persons were injured. One sub-inspector of police was injured in Zampakadal in downtown srinagar during stone pelting by protesters.
Incidents of stone -throwing were also reported from Soura, Nawakadal, Jamalatta, Bohrikadal and Qamarwari in Srinagar city, sources said, adding three civilians were injured in the clashes.
A government spokesperson said that the state government had received information that some people were planning to target separatist leaders including the mirwaiz, Syed Ali Shah Geelani and Yaseen Malik during their march to Lal Chowk on Monday. "There are inputs that they (separatist leaders) could be targeted. so as a precautionary measure, curfew has been imposed and people have been asked to maintain peace and calm", the spokesman said.
But Coordination Committee spokesman Masrat Alam told reporters there was no threat to anyone.
Police and central paramilitary force also picked up nearly two dozen people including Ayaz Akbar, spokesperson of hardline Hurriyat faction led by Geelani, from his Maloora residence on Saturday night.
Posted by: john frum ||
08/24/2008 15:36 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[8 views]
Top|| File under:
Srinagar (PTI): At least 16 persons were injured when security forces lobbed tear gas shells at a crowd of 15,000 protesting alleged desecration of a holy book at Handwara in the frontier district of Kupwara on Sunday.
Villagers of Rangward-Handwara took to streets this morning to register their protest against desecration of the Holy Quran allegedly by security forces who entered a mosque, official sources said.
Security forces tried to persuade agitators to disperse but they refused and pelted them with stones. In return, they were teargassed and in the clashes that followed, 16 persons received injuries, the sources said.
However, an official spokesman dismissed as false reports of desecration of the Quran. "Reports of desecration of the holy book at the hands of security forces are based on rumours. There is no truth in the reports," he said.
The crowd of agitators dispersed after being teargassed and the agitation is now under control, the spokesman said.
Posted by: john frum ||
08/24/2008 09:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: ISI
Five more people were killed and nine others wounded in fresh clashes between the Bangash and Turi tribesmen in different places of the troubled Kurram Agency on Saturday.
Sources told The News that both the rival groups were targeting each other's positions with heavy and sophisticated weapons.
Fierce fighting was going on in different areas, including Inzari, Arawali, Balishkhel, Karman, Sangeena, Kundizar, Tangi, Bakhtzai and Alizai, where five people were killed and nine injured.
Reports pouring in from the violence-hit agency said that dozens of houses were severely damaged when rival tribesmen continued firng mortars and rockets over the Sadda city and adjoining areas from the hilltops of Ibrahimzai and Sangeena area of lower Kurram. The death toll from the 15-day clashes climbed to 299 while 412 have been injured so far.
On the other hand, Assistant Political Agent (APA) Shahab Hamid Yusufzai has denied the reports that the Afghan soldiers had been arrested in Kurram Agency.
Talking to media persons, Yusufzai said the Pakistani government had already tightened security to curb the infiltration of militants via Pak-Afghan border.
"The government will punish those behind the propaganda," the APA said.
Meanwhile, the Hangu peace Jirga was striving to broker a ceasefire between the rival factions.
"The Jirga is striving for bringing lasting peace in the area, but no substantial progress was made on Saturday," the sources said.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: Govt of Pakistan
Six civilians, including a woman and four children, were killed when an artillery shell hit the house of a government employee in Khar town, the headquarters of the Bajaur Agency.
Sources told The News that a shell fired by the paramilitary troops from Torghundai Frontier Corps camp on Khar-Munda Road hit the house of Qasim Jan, killing his wife, son Ayaz, daughter and two other children.
The residents said the attack also injured 10 people, one of whom later succumbed to his injuries at the Agency Headquarters Hospital. Qasim, a driver in the local government department, had been living in an official residential colony near the paramilitary Bajaur Scouts headquarters in Khar.
Local people said three more houses, inhabited by government servants, were also damaged in the indiscriminate artillery shelling.
It was baffling for area residents as to what prompted the troops stationed in a remote area like Torghundai in Dir district to fire artillery shells on an area, which was comparatively nearer to the security forces based in Khar town.
Some of the injured were identified as Qasim Jan, Sher Khan, Abdur Rahman, Abdur Rahim, Tahir Khan and Mir Ali Khan.
Later, hundreds of people staged a protest demonstration in front of the FC headquarters in Khar and condemned what they termed indiscriminate mortar and artillery shelling on residential areas instead of targeting militant positions. The protesting tribesmen complained that on the one hand the government and military authorities were asking them to return to their homes and start routine business activities and on the other the security forces were shelling their houses. Military authorities said the security forces wanted to target a group of militants planning to attack the law-enforcement agencies and the government installations. They argued the artillery shell could have possibly missed its target and hit a house. Earlier, people in Khar town opened markets and shops in the morning after several days of closure, giving an impression as if normalcy had returned to the militancy-stricken tribal region.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under: TTP
Police arrested five suspected militants and seized arms from their possession on Saturday. Hangu Police Superintendent Muhammad Arif Khan told a press conference that the police arrested a suspected militant from a house in the Tull area, which was raided following information that militants were patrolling the area. He said the police seized an AK-47 and ammunition from the suspect. Separately, two other suspected militants were arrested after a 30-minute exchange of fire between them and the police, which started after the suspects refused to stop their vehicles by a police checkpost and opened fire at the police. Three AK-47s, two pistols, two rocket launchers and ammunition were seized from them. Meanwhile, the police arrested two people from Hangu city and seized AK-47s from them.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: TTP
Security forces on Saturday killed 40 militants in one of the fiercest battles in Swat so far, pounding their positions with artillery and helicopter gunships after Taliban killed three policemen and a civilian in a suicide attack on a police station, officials said. "Forty militants were killed in the Kabal tehsil trying to ambush advancing troops," a regional military spokesman said, adding that they included a top militant commander. According to the spokesman, two soldiers also died in the clashes.
An indefinite curfew was imposed across the Swat district and the local administration said it was planning a search operation to purge the area of militants.
Police stations: The clashes came after a suicide bomber rammed his explosives-laden vehicle into a police station in the Charbagh area, DSP Ali Rehmat said. Security contingents and rescuers arrived at the blast scene soon after the incident and carried out relief work.
Rehmat denied initial reports that said 15 policemen were killed in the attack. "Some 20 shops near the police station were also destroyed," said the police official. Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan claimed responsibility for the attack. He told reporters by telephone from an undisclosed location that the attack was a reaction to the security forces' operation against Taliban in the Kabal and Matta tehsils.
Militants also blew up with dynamite an abandoned police station in the Barikot area, leaving two dead, including a girl, local residents said.
Three bridges: Also on Saturday, pro-Taliban militants blew up three bridges and a checkpost in the Matta and Deoli areas, the state-run APP news agency said. No casualties were reported.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: TTP
#1
Has the Pak government finally figured that it's their own survival at stake here? I like your choice of pictures.
Posted by: Richard of Oregon ||
08/24/2008 11:02 Comments ||
Top||
Lawyers working for the country's security
As reported in daily Express, Chaudhry Aslam Sindhu, vice chairman of Punjab Bar Council, presided over a flag hoisting ceremony. He said that a lawyer had made Pakistan and lawyers continue to contribute to Pakistan's stability. He said that today the parliament shall take oath to utilise Pakistan's abundant resources and bring Pakistan on the road of self-sufficiency.
Six youth killed by one-wheeling on August 14
As reported in daily Jang, six youngsters died and over 400 were injured in different cities during the Independence Day celebrations. Police in Lahore arrested over 200 youth for one-wheeling and riding motorcycles without silencers. Police also baton charged youth that were involved in teasing on Mall Road, Lahore.
Bush vs Sikhs
Columnist Kishwar Naheed wrote in daily Jang, that Sikh Gurmukh Singh rang President Bush and said that he, along with his cousin, neighbour and his Kabadi team were going to attack America. Bush replied that he has 100 million Army Reserve soldiers. The next day the Sikh called again and said that he had collected infantry equipment and added a donkey and a tractor. Bush replied that he has 16 thousand tanks and 14 thousand armoured men. The Sikh called Bush again and said that they had mounted shotguns on an American tractor. Bush replied that he has 10 thousand bombers and 20 thousand fighter jets with laser guided missiles. The next day Gurmukh Singh called again and said that they will not attack America, as they can't feed 100 million American prisoners.
The facts of Dr Afia's case
In daily Khabrain, the US Ambassador in Pakistan, Anne W Peterson, wrote that a few journalists were distorting facts to influence the opinion of people and sensationalising the issue of Dr Afia Siddiqui. She denied that Dr Afia was in American custody and said that Dr Afia was arrested on July 17 2008. She was not detained at Bagram Airbase. She has access to a Pakistani councillor under the Vienna Convention. She said that readers should see these allegations with an open mind but with suspicion.
Stage plays not suitable for families: Sohail Ahmad
As reported in Daily Pakistan, famous stage actor Sohail Ahmad said that plays being staged today are not suitable for families. He said that plays used to have quality when he started acting on stage. Today, stage plays only constitute dances and there is no such thing as acting in these plays. He said that he wanted to be a singer and God had given him a good voice.
Gurmukh Singhs of Pakistan
Columnist Kishwar Naheed wrote in daily Jang, that we are all Gurmukh Singhs of our areas. Why don't we concentrate the coalition meetings on 270 girls schools destroyed in Swat and discuss how many people are killed in Bara between Lashkar Islam and An Al-munkar. Why is it being said that Taliban can take over Karachi, why does Dr Afia's case hit headlines now when she was kidnapped years ago.
Property prices in Peshawar decline
According to daily Nawa-e-Waqt, rumours of Taliban taking over Peshawar has caused a dip in the property prices and influential people are selling their property and settling in Punjab. Rumours are rife that Taliban have reached the outskirts of Peshawar. Criminals have started their activities to bring a bad name to Taliban. Buying or selling property in posh areas has come to a stop.
Pakistan Hockey Team waiting for a miracle in Olympics
As reported in daily Khabrain, Pakistan lost to Australia in an important field hockey match in the Beijing Olympics and their hopes to reach the finals are dashed. Pakistan's team coach, Naveed Alam, said from Beijing that bad umpiring was the cause of their defeat. He also blamed a power struggle in the Pakistan Hockey Federation as a cause of their defeat. Pakistan still has a chance if Holland is defeated by Pakistan and Australia.
Solve electricity crisis and control prices
As reported in daily Khabrain, trader representatives in Khabrain forum said that the government should consult small traders before making a trade policy. They said that the government should leave the impeachment or restoration of judges and solve the issue of price hikes, shortage of electricity and the law and order situation. They said that 20 billion dollars have already left the country.
Taliban collecting zakat to wage jihad
As reported n daily Nawa-e-Waqt, in Bajaur Agency, Taliban are collecting zakat, usher and tax to wage jihad against America. According to sources, Tehreek Taliban would use this money to compensate the families of those who died in the war against America in Afghanistan and in army operations. People are paying from Rs 30 to Rs 25,000. Taliban are also collecting taxes from transporters and petrol stations. One petrol station gives 120 litres petrol to Taliban.
Godfathers of music live in Lahore: Hansraj Hans
As reported in daily Express, famous Indian Punjabi singer Hansraj Hans visited the shrine of Sufi saint Data Ganj Baksh and had breakfast with the well-known singer of Patiala school, Hamid Ali Khan. Hansraj said that Lahore is the centre of music and that the godfathers of music live in this city. He said that Hamid Ali Khan is a great singer and his years of practice is visible in his singing.
Dancer Deedar in trouble on August 14
Sarerahe wrote in daily Nawa-e-Waqt, that youths celebrating stopped the car of the stage dancer Deedar and started dancing around her car on August 14. Deedar is famous for sharrif dance on stage. Amar Bil Maroof should take note of all kinds of dances. Our showbiz people should think of some sharrif biz, as Taliban are making a programme of Amar Bil Maroof in Lahore and Karachi. Deedar should not make bad use of dance and should stop dancing on stage.
Suicide bomber was wearing explosive underwear
As reported in daily Jang, police is collecting evidence on the suicide bomber in Iqbal Town. According to police sources, they found the head and torso of the bomber, but not his legs. This is the first case in Lahore. A similar case was found in Dera Ismail Khan, when again only the head of the suicide bomber was found. Polices sources said that the bomb was five to six kilos and had a small battery attached to it.
Begum Sehba Musharraf left for America
As reported in Daily Pakistan, President Musharraf has sent Begum Sehba Musharraf to America. A meeting of representatives of the Army Chief, Asif Zardari and Musharraf is being held to discuss a safe exit for Musharraf and his security. According to the agreement, no case would be filed against Musharraf if he resigns. Guarantees were given that if any other political party tried to open a case against Musharraf, the government will arrange for his safe exit to abroad.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under:
#1
Columnist Kishwar Naheed wrote in daily Jang, that Sikh Gurmukh Singh rang President Bush and said that he, along with his cousin, neighbour and his Kabadi team were going to attack America. Bush replied that he has 100 million Army Reserve soldiers. The next day the Sikh called again and said that he had collected infantry equipment and added a donkey and a tractor. Bush replied that he has 16 thousand tanks and 14 thousand armoured men. The Sikh called Bush again and said that they had mounted shotguns on an American tractor. Bush replied that he has 10 thousand bombers and 20 thousand fighter jets with laser guided missiles. The next day Gurmukh Singh called again and said that they will not attack America, as they can't feed 100 million American prisoners.
#2
I first heard a version of this joke in the early 1950's. It involved Japanese and Chinese combat losses in WWII. We see it today because it's still true. Pompous little dictators make stupid statements against far greater forces often. Iran is the current champ.
Posted by: Richard of Oregon ||
08/24/2008 10:58 Comments ||
Top||
#3
The next day Gurmukh Singh called again and said that they will not attack America, as they can't feed 100 million American prisoners.
There is only one version and 'ailor Man John Frumm is write it.
#4
Ali Khan is a great singer and his years of practice is visible in his singing.
Man after quality mushrooms anything is possible. You may trust me on this thing. A beagle once told me he was depressered because he was born to be a tap dancer.
A suicide bomber blew himself up Sunday in the midst of a celebration to welcome home an Iraqi detainee released from U.S. custody, killing at least 25 people, Iraqi officials said.
The U.S. military, meanwhile, announced the arrest of an al-Qaida in Iraq figure who allegedly planned the 2006 kidnapping of American journalist Jill Carroll — one of the highest-profile attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
The suicide attack occurred inside one of several tents set up outside a house in the Abu Ghraib area on Baghdad's western outskirts, according to residents and police. It was unclear if the former detainee was among the casualties.
A woman who was wounded but declined to give her name for security reasons said she was preparing food behind the tents when the blast occurred at about 9 p.m., knocking her and her three young children off their feet.
Residents and police said Ayyid Salim al-Zubaie, a local sheik in the mainly Sunni area, had invited dozens of guests to a banquet in honor of his son, who was released earlier in the day from Camp Bucca in southern Iraq. Residents said the detainee-son had quarreled with al-Qaida members while in detention and may have been the target of the attack.
The guests also included several members of the local awakening council, a U.S.-allied group that has turned against al-Qaida.
Yassir al-Jumaili, a doctor at the hospital in nearby Fallujah where most of the wounded were taken, gave the death toll as 25 and said at least 29 other people were wounded.
The blast was a grim reminder of the dangers still facing Iraqis despite a sharp decrease in violence after the 2007 U.S. troop buildup, a Sunni decision to join forces with the Americans against al-Qaida and a Shiite militia cease-fire.
The announcement of the arrest of Salim Abdullah Ashur al-Shujayri, also known as Abu Othman, was a major breakthrough in a series of kidnappings. He was captured Aug. 11 in Baghdad and accused of being "the planner behind the kidnapping" of Carroll, a Christian Science Monitor reporter who was seized Jan. 7, 2006 and released three months later, according to the military.
The statement also said al-Shujayri's associates were involved in the kidnappings of Christian peace activists and British aid worker Margaret Hassan, but did not elaborate.
Kidnappings of Westerners forced foreigners to flee Iraq or take refuge in heavily guarded compounds, diminishing the ability of aid groups and journalists to operate. Many of the victims were butchered and their deaths recorded on videotapes distributed to Arab satellite TV stations or posted on the Web.
Hassan, 59, the director of CARE international in Iraq, was abducted in Baghdad in October 2004 and shown on a video pleading for her life, calling on British Prime Minister Tony Blair to withdraw troops from Iraq.
She was killed a month later, but her body was never found. The case drew special attention because Hassan, who was married to an Iraqi, had lived in the country for 30 years and spent nearly half her life helping Iraqis.
Four men from the Chicago-based group, Christian Peacemaker Teams, disappeared Nov. 26, 2005, in Baghdad and videotapes later showed them in captivity. One of the hostages, American Tom Fox, 54, of Clear Brook, Va., was found shot dead. The other three — two Canadians and a Briton — were later rescued.
Carroll was seized in west Baghdad and her interpreter was killed. The kidnappers, a formerly unknown group calling itself the Revenge Brigade, demanded the release of all women detainees in Iraq. U.S. officials freed some female detainees but said the decision was unrelated to the demands.
The statement said U.S. troops also captured another al-Qaida figure — Ali Rash Nasir Jiyad al-Shammari — on Aug. 17 in Baghdad. He was accused of being a senior adviser for the terror network and funneling money, weapons and explosives to insurgents in the capital "during its most active operational period in early 2007," the military said. Al-Shammari, also known as Abu Tiba, personally approved targets for car and suicide bombings targeting Iraqi civilians, the military said.
The military statement said al-Qaida in Iraq conducted almost 300 bombings, killing more than 1,500 civilians and wounding more than twice that many in 2007, compared with 28 attacks that killed 125 Iraqi civilians in the first half of this year.
"The capture of Abu Tiba and Abu Othman eliminates two of the few remaining experienced leaders in the AQI network," said military spokesman Rear Adm. Patrick Driscoll.
Also Sunday, the U.S. military said a 13-year-old girl wearing a bomb-laden vest surrendered to Iraqi police in Baqouba rather than blow herself up. She led police to a second suicide vest and was detained, the military said. Women have increasingly been recruited by insurgents to carry out attacks because it's easier for them to evade security checks.
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 18:07 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[3 views]
Top|| File under:
FBAQUBAH, Iraq -- An unwilling female suicide bomber was detained in Baqubah Aug. 24 by Iraqi Police. The unwilling suicide bomber surrendered to the IPs rather than detonating herself and potentially killing or wounding bystanders. After identifying the suicide vest on the woman, IPs requested Iraqi and Coalition force Explosive Ordnance Disposal units to remove the vest.
After her detainment, the woman led IPs to a second suicide vest. The IPs secured the vest and detained a 13-year-old female.
"This incident indicates that Iraqi women understand their importance in society and value life," said Maj. Jon Pendell, a 2nd Stryker Brigade Cavalry Regiment spokesperson. "The surrender of the suicide bomber indicates that the Iraqis are continuing to reject al-Qaeda and its practices. The Police will ensure the rule of law prevails and those responsible are brought to justice."
Both females are currently in the custody of the IP. The incident is still under investigation.
A deadly explosion at a car dealership in Iraq's northern city of Kirkuk has killed at least five people and wounded nine others. The blast struck a car market in the evening, a police source said, adding it was not yet clear whether the attack was caused by a suicide bombing or explosives placed there.
The explosion came nearly one month after a suicide bombing hit Kurdish demonstrators in Kirkuk on July 28, leaving more than 20 people dead and about 200 injured.
Insurgents have regularly launched attacks in oil-rich Kirkuk, a city claimed by both Arab and Iraqi Kurds. The Kurds have been trying to merge the city into the neighboring Kurdish autonomous region, a decision opposed by other Iraqis.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[0 views]
Top|| File under: Islamic State of Iraq
#1
As a former car salesman, I can personally assure that this could very well have nothing to do with terrorism.
Lord knows, I've earned a bombing or two in my career...
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 1:11 Comments ||
Top||
#2
a Pinto?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 1:39 Comments ||
Top||
#3
No pintos. I 13 pounded (1 pound = $1,000.00 front end profit) this old couple on a Kia one time. To top it off, the finance office got them for another 5 pounds on the back end. Even scooped the rebate. (Gotta put it in so it can be taken out. IE add the amount of the rebate to MSRP, figure the tax on the inflated sell price, then take the rebate out so the sell price, after rebate is actually above MSRP) After all the extras they bought, the poor folks bought a 22k car with a $3,000 rebate for over 40 grand.
I'm going to hell.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 2:18 Comments ||
Top||
#6
No pintos. I 13 pounded (1 pound = $1,000.00 front end profit) this old couple on a Kia one time. To top it off, the finance office got them for another 5 pounds on the back end. Even scooped the rebate. (Gotta put it in so it can be taken out. IE add the amount of the rebate to MSRP, figure the tax on the inflated sell price, then take the rebate out so the sell price, after rebate is actually above MSRP) After all the extras they bought, the poor folks bought a 22k car with a $3,000 rebate for over 40 grand.
Let it go Mike, we're here for you! Ditch it all, and let it ride. Does you like to HEAL! BROTHER! srsly, we've all done rong. Let it go and give your mind a break.
#7
I note the above 2 posters are yellow bellied bastards wanking in they mommas basement who never owned a car and likely couldn't poor piss from a shoe if the instrution were lasered on they eyelid. They is if they momma loaned them her combat boots.
#10
So you two stupid bastards see nothing wrong with having someone gouged for twice the price of the product (a commonly available one) and justify it as capitalism? A real capitalist holds you both in contempt, knowing that its scum like you who bring down the wrath of the real socialists--the government regulators--on honest capitalists.
Hell, even the contract lawyers (at least the good ones) know that writing a contract that gouges one party like that is bound, sooner or later, to blow up in your face when the mark discovers what has happened.
People like Mike N are the reason why most people absolutely hate buying a car, and why more and more dealers are going to fixed price/no haggle systems. A situation which only hurts car salesmen, BTW. The folks at TTAC are all over jerks like Mike N., and for good reason.
As for half-empty, its obvious his nym refers to the space between his ears. Only a damned fool kills the goose that lays the golden eggs, and the double-damned fools stand there and cheer them on to do it.
In the long run, character is destiny. People who act in the dishonest manner you advocate invariably suffer the consequences at some point. The mills of God grind slowly but they grind exceeding small.
#12
I'll let you in on a little secret. The more people pay for a car, the happier they are. I know it makes no sense at all, but its an invariable truth. Dealers keep log books of all the days car deals. If you look at the book and see a bunch of car deals with good profit, you know - without exception - that they had a lot of hapy customers that day. The opposite is also true. If you see a bunch of bleeders, you know they had to grind on a bunch of people and that those customers arwent very happy. Bottom line is, the more money made on a car, the happier the customer was when they left. Swear to God.
Besides, they bought more than the car. They bought tint, backup alarm, pinstripe, extended warranty, gap insurance (which is wise when you owe that much more than the car is worth ;) and some other stuff. Also, for very deal like this I did, I did two bleeders for people with real troubles. So get off my ass. If God is angry with me for making lots of money on a car, do you think he's happy with me for the time I took a 2 grand bleeder and reached into my own pocket and broke off $500.00 for a down payment so a single mother of 3 can have a 5 star safety rated vehicle to drive her kids around in for a payment she can actually afford?
I'm guessing you're one of the people that badmouths dealers yet have almost no experience doing business with them. That's usually because a person doent know how not to get taken for a ride.
Now because I dislike car dealers even more than I dislike you :), I'm gonna spill the beans on how to buy a car. Once you figure out which vehicle you want, spend 3 more minutes online to find out what you should be paying. Now, the most important part at this point is, when you go to the dealer, DO NOT purchase any other vehicle other than what you did your homework on. At least 20 percent of you will put yourselves on the wrong car and the salesman has seen so many customers he will likely know you are on the wrong car within a few minutes. At which point they'll show you the right vehicle and even if you love it, DO NOT buy it until you go back home and figure out what to pay for it.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 16:18 Comments ||
Top||
#13
Methinks Mussolini is afraid of a car salesman taking his head off.
TIP: If the salesman walks out to greet you with a basket in his hand, run.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 16:21 Comments ||
Top||
#14
Mike, I'm shocked! $22K for a KIA?
Posted by: ed ||
08/24/2008 16:24 Comments ||
Top||
#16
I sold cars while I was in grad school. The venue was a high-end import dealership in Dallas; Maserati, Jaguar, Rover, etc, so we only gouged lawyers, franchise steak-house proprietors, mobile home tycoons, and other richly deserving types.
My Brit accent was a godsend when trying to sell some miserable BL product to a pretentious trustafarian music major from UNT. It helped that they couldn' tell my working class north country brogue from Oxonian RP, and apparently didn't care.
(I drive a Chevy pickup, btw. Take that, teasippers)
#17
Edmunds.com is very helpful. You can add/delete the features you want and watch the price go up and down (the MSRP), but at the end, you can see what the dealer invoice would be AND what others in your vicinity are actually paying for that vehicle. I bought my F150 that way, was very specific on what I wanted, and actually got one in the storage lot fresh off the freight train (6 miles on the Odometer) - it hadn't even got the cardboard off the dash or plastic off the seats- and I paid exactly what I thought I should've
Like buying a house or any other large expenditure, do your research, don't expect others to do it for you
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 16:28 Comments ||
Top||
#24
There's an even better way: go to Consumer Reports Online, pay the $10 they ask for the report on the specific model you want, with the specific options you want, go in there armed with that information, and then expect to get 10% off that cost, maybe more if they have the car on the lot and don't have to send off for it. Worked great with my last Lexus, particularly with the fact that they don't do much in the way of single options (as opposed to BMW, say). You pretty much only have two or three option packages to choose from.
As for half-empty, let me tell you something, pilgrim. Every business is, at bottom, a word of mouth affair. That's why they spend so much in advertising. Screwing a customer over is a certain way to insure a) no return business from that customer, and b) a hell of a lot of bad publicity from that person telling everyone he knows about the bad service/treatment they received at XX dealership. ONE pissed-off former customer with a big mouth can negate a hell of a lot of your advertising money expenditure. If you've any small business experience you should know that already.
#25
When we bought our minivan a couple years back I really wanted the Toyota Sienna. Its interior space was ideal for dog equipment etc. and at the time they were the only model offering run flat tires.
I met with the salesguy, we id'd one in the regional inventory system and I was assured I'd have it in 2 days. Four days later the salesguy called to say the only thing he would offer me was an AWD version loaded with DVD player etc. My dogs are pampered but they don't watch DVDs on the road and the AWD had much worse gas mileage & higher repair costs. So I turned him down and bought a Chrysler for cash. Cost me $10k less.
A couple weeks later the Toyota sales manager called to try to talk me into taking that original vehicle. I let him know that his salesguy's games sent me elsewhere despite the fact that that would have been my 4th Toyota in a row. The manager had the nerve to tell me I screwed up by not calling him personally to negotiate. I told him to train his staff better and politely suggested he take his BS elsewhere.
I've let a lot of people know about that experience.
#26
Lotp, I once read a very smart man referring to customers. He said they were like a covey of quail. You could only harvest a reasonable percentage every year if you wanted to continue to have good quail hunting. Take too high a percentage in one season and it will be your last good season for a long time.
It's the conservation/renewable resource vs. mining scenario. If you screw a customer over, you'd better make it a damned big score because it's going to cost you business and will keep doing so for a long time.
Smart business owners know that if you treat your customers right, you'll have loyal customers, and their return business may be what keeps your business afloat in tough times when others are going under.
The idea that these two guys have, that customers are just sheep to be shorn, flat doesn't work in the information age. People have access to too much knowledge that was formerly reserved to specialists, and there are too many forums for them to widely broadcast their bad experiences to large numbers of interested people.
Not only are these two immoral in taking the stance that taking advantage of people's ignorance is gleefully acceptable, they're guilty of a worse crime: extreme stupidity. Dishonest behavior like that espoused by Mike N and half-empty will almost invariably come back in a very tangible way to haunt those who practice it.
We won't even bring up what the certain knowledge that one is dishonest does to one's psyche and outlook on life...
#27
dishonest, as in your name is Jolutch Mussolini7800 ?
If you want the high ground, take it and stake it. Pick a nym, stay with it, and suffer the questions over prior statements. I've done that since '01, Mike N (regardless of your current topic opinion) has done the same since he landed here. He has my respect for that. You don't. Man up and make yourself vulnerable/accountable as well. Then I'll consider your criticism as honorable.
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 20:24 Comments ||
Top||
#28
Frank, every time I use CC cleaner it changes the nym on my computer. Same thing with my work computer. I just got tired of changing it back. The prior nym before the last CC operation was Thaimble something-or-other.
#29
Lotp, it wasn't the salesman playing those games, it was his manager telling him to do so. The salesman don't do the locates, nor have ultimate authority over price. His manager tried to pull that switch I was talking about. I can promise that salesman was as mad about that incident as were.
And Muss, despite you're whining and your firm grasp of the obvius wrt angry customers, people indeed are sheep. The vast majority have no inclination at all to lead. Just like any other animal that runs in a herd or a pack.
I would like you to reread my above post regarding amount paid relating to customer satisfaction. If you don't believe me, ask some people you know that are very happy with their purchase. I bet they paid too much.
And your 10 percent below invoice number came out of your ass. Most dealers aren't going to go much below invoice minus holdback unless there's good stairstep (so much money per car, with more cars being worth more money per unit) money coming from the manufacturer.
Go try to get yourself a new Civic for ten percent under invoice. Or almost any little gas-saver right now. Or better yet, a Prius, smartguy.
Posted by: Mike N. The Car Salesman. ||
08/24/2008 21:00 Comments ||
Top||
#30
JM7800: bogus alibi- pick a nym, stick to it and if you have to refresh your nym via cookies, do it . Don't whine. I've only been doing it here for 10 years, and I'm an idiot, via mutual acclaim, you, as a smart guy, oughta be able to handle this...
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 21:05 Comments ||
Top||
#31
And another for you, smartguy, a car dealer makes maybe 2-3 grand per car. If they can make 18 grand in one crack, they made more money that if the customer buys 10 cars from them over the next 33 years. (Average trade cycle is 3.3 years)
How many people buy 10 cars from the same dealership?
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 21:06 Comments ||
Top||
#32
sorry, 7 years. Got caught up in explaining what "10 inches" was to my ...friend. Sometimes exaggeration is necessary...in this blog, 7 years is accurate. Search and ye shall verify
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 21:11 Comments ||
Top||
#33
I would like you to reread my above post regarding amount paid relating to customer satisfaction.
That's a correlation discussed in every decent MBA program. There are a lot of case studies of products and companies that became more successful by setting high prices or raising them.
That said, the key to longterm success in such markets is performance. Mariott sets high prices but delivers consistent quality and a trained staff even (as I discovered earlier this summer) in places like Tegucigalpa. IBM set high prices for their mainframes but delivered well tested products backed by deep technical support. BMW offers zero-cost maintenance.
When the performance isn't there (i.e. when people pay more than the product's quality and function are worth in comparison to similar goods) then people will indeed grow disillusioned. What lets car sellers get away with this practice is that individual consumers purchase cars only occasionally and face an information assymetry - they don't know a lot about costs and profit margins etc.
OTOH, the internet has begun to change that disparity. The result is a proliferation of information that reduces the salesman's advantage if consumers learn about the info and take the time to research it. At which point cars become a lot more like commodity goods.
#34
FrankG, if you don't like what I've written, don't read it. Even a self-proclaimed idiot should be able to figure that out. Your opinion of my credibility doesn't matter to me in the slightest.
Mike N--you're right about the dealer's room to maneuver on lower-end models; they don't have much of a margin. They've got a lot more on high-end Lexus models, and that's what I was buying.
As for how many people buy ten cars from the same dealership, you're also right in that there won't be many. The rub is how many people DON'T buy cars from a dealership when they hear from their friends/neighbors/acquaintances that XX dealership is a bunch of ripoff artists who will rob you blind if given a chance. As I said before, all businesses at bottom are word-of-mouth operations. When that goes south, so does the business.
It's not often that a car dealer has a captive audience, and it's far less common than it used to be. If one dealer gets a rep as being dishonest, there are always plenty of others available, not to mention the online car brokerages, who will also be happy to have the business. Screw customers over and the word WILL get out, and it WILL hurt the business. Both individuals and businesses who are dishonest in their business dealings eventually pay the price for it, and it's usually a heavy one.
Robert Farago's blog, TheTruthAboutCars.com, is a good place to pick up information about most aspects of the current state of the car industry, and those folks come down really hard on companies and dealerships that use dishonest sales tactics. Your story of screwing that old couple over for 22 grand would make a great example for them.
It was wrong to do that and your example of helping out a single mother doesn't make up for it. What I think doesn't matter though; you're the one who has to live with what you did, and if it didn't bother you that you had done such a thing, you'd have forgotten it by now. You're the one who said you were going to Hell; you put the weight on your own back through your own actions. Your choice--and your consequences.
#35
Oh, I'll read it, critique it, and you should do the same - that's the beauty of civil well-reasoned discourse? I was saying that you should have the courage of your convictions by picking an identifiable nym and staying with it. Is that too hard for you? I've been Frank G (for good and bad.....) since 9-11-01. Is that too hard for you? If so, why?
Posted by: Frank G ||
08/24/2008 21:44 Comments ||
Top||
#36
Lotp, yes, the internet is a great tool for consumers. That's why I would recommend that every person start their car shopping on the net. There is a drawback however. Dealers have to make their money somewhere. With the variable (sales and finance) side of the business being less profitable, they have to make more in the fixed (parts and service) side of the operation. The widespread use of the internet is responsible for part of the increase in labor costs over the last ten years. Making warranty repairs more expensive for the manufacturer, causing them to have to sell their product for more money. The net can help you get a great price, but its a great price on a product that costs more than it othwrwise would have.
One more tip, don't bother asking a dealer for their fleet department. They want to make money also and you can often pay more than you would have had to because you have confidence that 'you're getting the fleet deal'. Same goes for the internet department. More often than not, you're just talking to a salesman who is letting you think they're in the fleet or internet department. Heck, most dealers don't even have an actual fleet department. Unless its a dealer that sells work trucks, there's a zero percent chance of them having an actual fleet department, and even then, they're only dealing with businesses. Not people like you or me.
And mussy, I don't have trouble 'living' with any of it. You've got the wrong guy. I slept fine that night.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 21:58 Comments ||
Top||
#37
Mussy, word of mouth is overrated on lower lines of cars. Sure, on a status symbol like a Lexus, people say "oooo... I want one of those! And they even have a Starbucks and salon in the dealership?!" Next thing ya know, the neighbors wife is in getting a latte and a mud bath while her new RX300 is getting detailed. Only hers has DVD and Navi because hers has to be better than Janets.
While even Hyundai has very strong repeat business, on a model line like Kia, its far different. 5-10 percent of customers will send another customer and only slightly more will ever purchase another one.
When its a Benz, ya wanna keep them coming back and get their friends. When it comes to Kias, crack'em wide open.
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 22:09 Comments ||
Top||
#38
And I think you misunderstand me. I don't remember it because I feel guilty about it. I remember it because its a trophy. Like a hunter, only I can't legally mount the head of my prey on the wall.
(I had my washout slip from that deal framed instead)
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 22:14 Comments ||
Top||
#39
And I think you misunderstand me. I don't remember it because I feel guilty about it. I remember it because its a trophy. Like a hunter, only I can't legally mount the head of my prey on the wall.
(I had my washout slip from that deal framed instead)
Posted by: Mike N. ||
08/24/2008 22:14 Comments ||
Top||
#40
Mike N. Man, people hate car salesman. For good reason. Anybody got a drink for me?
Mike N. I don't remember it because I feel guilty about it. I remember it because its a trophy. Like a hunter, only I can't legally mount the head of my prey on the wall.
Yeah, whatever.
When its a Benz, ya wanna keep them coming back and get their friends. When it comes to Kias, crack'em wide open.
Thanks for providing yet more ammunition to the idiots on the left who are certain all "Rethuglicans" take great joy in screwing the poor, while obsequiously toadying to the rich. Heck, the KosKiddies could stretch this out a long ways...thieving, predatory car salesman screws minorities, cheats poor women...yeah, it's got legs. Definitely some distance there. Nice work.
FrankG: Is that too hard for you? If so, why?
Simple answer: I choose not to do so. If you don't like it, well, I'm sorry, sir, but you've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. As I said before, your opinion of my credibility matters to me not in the slightest.
#41
There are indeed plenty of people who are as proud they spent a lot of money for a car (or a house, a bottle of wine they can't appreciate properly...) as others are when they find a good deal. Both are some sort of competition, as if by spending more/less they are somehow better. When they were in school they probably compared report cards or how much pocket money Daddy gave them. I've never understood either drive, but find it useful to listen gravely and admiringly to those who need to share, while waiting four minutes for the tea to finish steeping so I can pour and change the subject.
I think it's just done, my dears. Would you like milk and sugar, or lemon?
An Iraqi court has condemned to death in absentia a Sunni Arab former minister for his role in the murder of a fellow Sunni politician's two sons, the court's spokesman told AFP on Saturday.
Abdul Sattar al-Byrakdar said the Central Criminal Court of Iraq had on Wednesday handed down the verdict against Assad Kamal al-Hashemi, former Iraqi minister for culture, for assassinating Mithal Alusi's sons in 2005.
Hashemi, a lawmaker with the main Sunni bloc the National Concord Front was tried in abstentia. His whereabouts have been unknown since he fled Baghdad in June last year. "We don't know where he is," Byrakdar said.
Alusi's sons were ambushed by gunmen in western Baghdad in February 2005. Two gunmen were later detained and reportedly confessed to receiving orders from Hashemi.
Alusi, although a Sunni, was formerly a member of U.S. Pentagon favorite Ahmed Chalabi's Shiite political party but was expelled after he visited Israel. He later formed his own party which holds one seat in the 275-member Iraqi parliament.
Posted by: Fred ||
08/24/2008 00:00 ||
Comments ||
Link ||
[1 views]
Top|| File under: Iraqi Insurgency
Two more men have been arrested in connection
with the deadly bombing in a Malaysian border district of this insurgency-troubled southern province last week were apprehended early Sunday, bringing to eight the total number of suspects nabbed to date, officials here said.
More than 200 personnel in a combined military and police force searched an unnamed village in Sungai Kolok, apprehending a man with two pistols, 181 rounds of ammunition, a large amount of US currency, five cell phones, five bank account books, four motorcycles and a pickup truck. The arrested man told authorities that both the weapons and the dollars belonged to someone else. Another man, a 30-year-old homeowner, was also arrested for interrogation. The authorities seized a pistol, 26 cartridges, Bt76,000 cash and a counterfeit motorcycle registration plate in his possession.
In Thursday night's bombing, a small bomb exploded first, injuring no one, but served to attract police, local officials, media and curious bystanders, and when a crowd had gathered, a larger and quite deadly bomb was exploded by remote control near Narathiwat's Sungai Kolok district police headquarters, killing two persons and wounding 35 others. The bomb in the motorcycle, which was parked at a restaurant, exploded first at about 9.30 pm Thursday and the car bomb about 20 minutes later after a crowd had gathered.
Maj-Gen. Theerachai Nakvanich, commanding the Narathiwat Task Force, said all suspects are being detained for interrogation, and that the authorities now knew the origin of the bomb-laden motorcycle and car. Intelligence officers have stepped up their activities in three Narathiwat districts to monitor movements of the insurgents, Maj-Gen. Theerachai indicated.
#3
I saw the article that you posted on that subject last week, TW, and it does seem like there may be a bit less jihadi activity to report in Thailand recently. Any progress is welcome in this under-reported but brutal corner of the war against Islamist terror.
#4
I was very pleased with that article, ryuge dear. In the welter of detail I do lose track of overall patterns. We haven't won the war on terror yet, but we certainly haven't lost, and in some places like Iraq and Thailand definite progress is being made.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai has condemned a U.S. airstrike in western Afghanistan that some Afghan officials say killed more than 70 civilians on Thursday. VOA's Barry Newhouse reports from Islamabad that the U.S. military disputes the number of civilian casualties and insists the operation was a successful strike against a wanted Taliban commander. 
Unidentified gunmen kidnapped two Western journalists on Saturday near Somalia's capital Mogadishu, residents and a security source said. The pair, believed to be an Australian man and Canadian woman, were apparently seized during a visit to camps for displaced civilians at Elasha, south of the city.
Security forces on Saturday killed 40 militants in one of the fiercest battles in Swat so far, pounding their positions with artillery and helicopter gunships after Taliban killed three policemen and a civilian in a suicide attack on a police station, officials said. "Forty militants were killed in the Kabal tehsil trying to ambush advancing troops," a regional military spokesman said, adding that they included a top militant commander. According to the spokesman, two soldiers also died in the clashes.
Lawyers working for the country's security
An Iraqi court has condemned to death in absentia a Sunni Arab former minister for his role in the murder of a fellow Sunni politician's two sons, the court's spokesman told AFP on Saturday.
Two more men have been arrested in connection 
