They said that just one look at the bodies of the dead hostages as well as terrorists showed it was a battle of attrition that was fought over three days at the Oberoi and the Taj hotels in Mumbai.
Doctors working in a hospital where all the bodies, including that of the terrorists, were taken said they had not seen anything like this in their lives.
"Bombay has a long history of terror. I have seen bodies of riot victims, gang war and previous terror attacks like bomb blasts. But this was entirely different. It was shocking and disturbing," a doctor said.
Asked specifically if he was talking of torture marks, he said: "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood," one doctor said.
The other doctor, who had also conducted the post-mortem of the victims, said: "Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.
The doctors who conducted the post mortem said the bodies of the terrorists were beyond recognition. "Their faces were beyond recognition."
There was no way of identifying them," he said. Asked how, if this is the case, they knew the bodies were indeed those of the terrorists, he said: "The security forces that brought the bodies told us that those were the bodies of the terrorists," he said, adding there was no other way they could have identified the bodies.
An intelligence agency source added: "One of the terrorists was shot through either eye." Jack Bauer? Check the knee caps.
A senior National Security Guard officer, who had earlier explained the operation in detail to rediff.com, said the commandos went all out after they ascertained that there were no more hostages left. When asked if the commandos attempted to capture them alive at that stage, he replied: "Unko bachana kaun chahega (Who will want to save them)?" They got one thing right. I think we should give the lead in the WOT to the Indians.
#2
When asked if the commandos attempted to capture them alive at that stage, he replied: "Unko bachana kaun chahega (Who will want to save them)?"
How about for questioning? If the hostages are dead, it's not like there's any need to kill the terrorists to prevent harm to the hostages. These people are extremely unprofessional. (And I'm not saying this because I'm some kind of great humanitarian. Once they get everything they can out of the terrorists, they can always bury them alive. Or tie them up as animal feed in some tiger preserve).
#3
The term "torture of hostages" is misleading. As far as the Indian government and the MSM were concerned, the captives were "hostages." As far as the terrorists were concerned, the captives were "playthings." The terrorists were out to inflict maximum pain on their victims and on the society they attacked. This needs much more publicity. Maybe the next set of would-be "playthings" will rush their attackers and either go down fighting, or overcome them.
#4
these terrs were well trained and the Indians had already captured one alive. No need to take any others alive, they all knew the same things, it would just have been redundant and taken the fun out of killing the rest. The info taken from the live one can be verified by other sources later.
#5
these terrs were well trained and the Indians had already captured one alive. No need to take any others alive, they all knew the same things, it would just have been redundant and taken the fun out of killing the rest. The info taken from the live one can be verified by other sources later.
Actually, it's better to have multiple live prisoners because discrepancies can be discovered within minutes, instead of having to deal with "other sources". Note that prisoners can always be killed at leisure after the interrogations are complete.
#7
mhw - how do you know they don't? 10 only? Convenient
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/30/2008 18:07 Comments ||
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#8
Afzal Guru, sentenced to death for the attack on the Indian Parliament is still alive because the Indian Government is wary of offending Muslim sentiment. His sentence will probably be commuted.
Said Sheik and Maulana Afzar were both captured by Indian troops. Both were freed during the Indian Airlines hijacking in Kandahar.
So you can understand why Indian forces have an unstated no capture policy...
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 19:29 Comments ||
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#9
And they probably do have a few. One or two of those declared dead may be getting the third degree in some undisclosed location from which they will never return.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 19:31 Comments ||
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Residents delivered more bodies to the main mosque in the central Nigerian city of Jos on Sunday, bringing the death toll from two days of clashes between Muslim and Christian gangs to around 400 people.
Rival ethnic and religious mobs have burned homes, shops, mosques and churches in fighting triggered by a disputed local election in a city at the crossroads of Nigeria's Muslim north and Christian south. It is the country's worst unrest for years.
Murtala Sani Hashim, who has been registering the dead as they are brought to the city's main mosque, told Reuters he had listed 367 bodies and more were arriving. Ten corpses wrapped in blankets, two of them infants, lay behind him.
A doctor at one of the city's main hospitals said he had received 25 corpses and 154 injured since the unrest began. "Gunshot wounds, machete injuries, those are the two main types," Dr Aboi Madaki, director of clinical services at Jos University Teaching Hospital, told Reuters.
The overall toll was expected to be higher, with some victims already buried and others taken to other clinics. The violence appeared to die down on Sunday. Soldiers patrolled on foot and in jeeps to enforce a 24-hour curfew imposed on the worst-hit areas. People who ventured out walked with their hands in the air to show they were unarmed. ...
Posted by: ed ||
11/30/2008 08:47 ||
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#1
I'm sure the violence is not the fault of the Muslims (a predator is looking for a meal, not a fight).
A banned Islamic terrorist group funded with cash raised in British mosques is believed to be behind the Mumbai attacks.
Kashmiri separatists Lashkar-e-Taiba, The Army of the Righteous, which has strong links to Al Qaeda, is accused of previous terrorist outrages in India.
And intercepted telephone and radio communications before and during the latest attacks apparently suggest a link.
Indian officials say at least one of the gunmen captured after the attacks is part of a Lashkar network.
The group last week denied any responsibility and the unknown group Deccan Mujahideen said it was behind the atrocity.
But earlier this year another group, the Indian Mujahideen, which has links to Lashkar-e-Taiba, sent an email to Indian police warning it was planning an attack in Mumbai.
The message read: We are keeping a close eye on you and just waiting for the right time to execute your bloodshed...Let the Indian Mujahideen warn all the people of Mumbai...You are already on our hit list and this time very, very seriously.
Lashkar-e-Taiba has been blamed for violence throughout India, including the 2001 attack on the Indian Parliament building in New Delhi and a strike at an amusement park in Hyderabad in 2007.
It is accused of being behind a series of train bombings in Mumbai in 2006, which claimed almost 200 lives.
The group is outlawed in Britain and the US. In 2006, a Coventry man was sentenced to nine years in jail for conspiring to provide funds for its terrorist activities.
WASHINGTON: The United States and India face tactics bordering on blackmail from a militarized Pakistan - where civilian control is still very dodgy - as they coordinate efforts to eliminate terrorism in the region, according to analysts and officials on both sides.
In what is turning out to be an elaborate chess game in the region, Islamabad on Saturday made its "Afghan move" to counter the US-India pincer, telling Washington that it will have to withdraw some 100,000 Pakistani troops posted on its western borders to fight the al-Qaida-Taliban and move them east to the Indian front if New Delhi makes any aggressive moves.
In Washington, Pakistan's ambassador to the US Hussain Haqqani said there is no movement of Pakistani troops right now, but if India makes any aggressive moves, "Pakistan will have no choice but to take appropriate measures."
Stripped of complexities, Pakistan is conveying the following message to the US: If you don't get India to back down, Pakistan will stop cooperating with US in the war against terror. Consequently, this also means Pakistan will use US dependence on its cooperation to wage a low-grade, asymmetric, terrorism-backed war against India.
Pakistan's withdrawal of troops from the Afghan front would obviously undermine the US/Nato battle in Afghanistan and allow breathing space for Taliban and al-Qaida. It would also ratchet up confrontation with India, which is at low ebb right now because Islamabad has been forced to engage on its western front and this minimizes Pakistan-backed infiltration into Kashmir, allowing India to tackle the insurgency in the state.
In fact, some experts surmise that the terror strike on Mumbai may have been aimed at precisely this - taking the pressure off Pakistan on its Afghan front, where it is getting a battering from US predators and causing a civilian uprising on its border, and allowing Islamabad to return to its traditional hostile posture against India on its eastern front.
The US-India-Pakistan tangle was the subject of intense debate among analysts on Sunday talk shows, with some analysts like former CIA Deputy Director John McLaughlin expressing apprehension that al-Qaida could be achieving its objective of getting some relief through such proxy attacks.
Vexed US officials have been in constant communication with their Indian counterparts to deal with the complex situation arising from what both sides privately agree has become a chaotic country dominated by rogue elements from its military and intelligence services.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been speaking with India's External Affairs Minister regularly to get a sense of India's mood and moves, worried that any overtly aggressive response by New Delhi will undermine US effort in Afghanistan.
President Bush and President-elect Barack Obama have also spoken to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to show US support, but also to moderate Indian response. Both Washington and New Delhi are starting to realise that the Pakistani military still calls the shots in Islamabad behind the civilian façade, officials here concede privately.
The weakness of Pakistan's civilian leadership was fully exposed on Saturday when the countrys army chief once again overruled a civilian government decision - this time to send the Director General of its spy agency ISI to India to coordinate the investigation into the latest terror attack on Mumbai.
Pakistans President Asif Ali Zardari explained it away saying there was a miscommunication and Islamabad only meant to send a ''Director'' and not Director-General, at Prime Minister Manmohan Singhs request. But no one was fooled by the ''clarification'' -- the reversal of the earlier decision came after a midnight meeting Pakistans Army Chief Pervez Kiyani, a former ISI chief himself, had with Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani.
Pakistans threat about troop withdrawals from the Afghan front also followed the Zardari-Kiyani-Gilani meeting, leaving little doubt about the real power center in Islamabad despite the recent return to democratic rule.
The situation is made even more complex by the transition process in the US where President Bush is winding down from the White House and President-elect Obama is readying to take charge. Both sides have made the Pakistan problem a top priority as they coordinate response, tactics, and communication relating to developments in the region.
The latest attacks on Mumbai also threatens to torpedo Obama's stated objective of promoting good ties between New Delhi and Islamabad, so that Pakistan can focus its energy on the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan that are controlled by Islamic extremists.
But hardliners in Pakistan's military and strategic circles, who resent what they see as the country's civilian government doing Washington's bidding and fighting what they argue is a US war, are against this. The terror strike on Mumbai evidently has several objectives - one of them being to cause a rift between Washington and New Delhi and damage US-India ties.
While Pakistan's fledgling civilian government has made all the right moves and noises about cooperation with India, officials here reckon it is being continuously undermined by the hard-line military whose importance, and lavish funding, depends on keeping up a hostile posture against India.
Even in the political sphere, Pakistan's continued existence as a single entity is premised on enmity with India, the glue which keeps the country together. Some Pakistanis have suggested in recent months that take away animosity against India, then Pakistan's founding itself becomes questionable.
Already, many Pakistanis are starting to question the relevance of a country where more people are killed in intra-religious warfare between Shias and Sunnis than in Hindu-Muslim communal riots in India. Two of Pakistan's four territories are wracked by insurgencies, and the intelligence community's reading is that resurrecting the hostile posture against India is one way the hard-line elements in Pakistan hope to contain this domestic conflagration.
While Pakistan is playing its one desperate Afghan card, both India and US can separately bring Pakistan to its knees in no time. The US and its allies are dependent on Pakistan for supplies to its troops in Afghanistan, but they can also plug the economic plug on the country and cause it to collapse in no time. India controls Pakistan's lifeline and jugular with river waters that originate in India and flow into Pakistan.
But punishing Pakistan with this levers would also throw the country into absolute chaos and bring extremists elements to the fore leading to a Somalia kind of situation -- with nuclear weapons in the mix. This is the fear that Pakistan is exploiting to stay afloat and stave off sanctions from the west and punishment from India.
The solution, analysts say, is to get Pakistan's civilian leadership to exert control over its hard-line military and intelligence which functions on its own existential agenda.
This is easier said than done. America's foremost strategic guru Henry Kissinger told Fareed Zakaria's GPS program on CNN, which devoted an entire hour to the crisis, that Pakistan's civilian government had made good statements vis-à-vis ties with India,"but its capacity to implement them is questionable."
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 15:12 ||
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#1
A brilliant move on India's part would be to coordinate with NATO to fly in a division of Indian army light infantry, to help seal the Afghan border with Pakistan. This would about make every variety of Pakistani about poop themselves.
It would also put the blocks to both the al-Qaeda and Taliban activities, and drug production, which cuts off a lot of the money.
#2
Fact is that Pakistan is a failed state; a failed nuclear armed state. Even if the government had good intentions (which they don't), they can't control either the ISI or the various militant Islamic groups that the ISI supports. This will NOT end well. Biden talked about an international test of Obama - this is the first one. Then Iran, then Russia.
1) if the Paks withdraw troops from the border region, it will have less ability to respond when various bad guys in the area get Predatored. They'll complain still, but we can step up the drone attacks, the occasional over the border artillery, etc., to make our point.
2) India and the US must now recognize that they need each other, and that they need to get past the squeamish of the Left in both countries. Share intel, share training, let the Indians get a good price on US-made weapons, etc. The Paks have always been convinced that they're surrounded. This time it should be true.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/30/2008 16:30 Comments ||
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Henry Kissinger from an interview today...
...We should have a very serious conversation with Pakistan. Pakistan has been a traditional friend. We have cooperated with Pakistan. They helped us in the opening to China in an indispensable way. And they were cooperative in many phases of the war on terror. But they have to understand that they cannot -- that it is an ultimate threat to their own security if they permit conditions to exist on their territory, where it simultaneously threatens all the major neighboring countries. And where Pakistan has a right to be told that we respect its territorial integrity, that we discourage attacks on its territorial integrity, but that in the end, it has to be a good citizen in its neighborhood, especially with respect to the threat that is now becoming paramount simultaneously in Afghanistan and significant in India. And it has to understand, in my view, that its biggest security threat now are the entities that it is permitting
or tolerating on its own territory. We should act here as a friend, but we should make clear what our understanding of the situation is.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 16:56 Comments ||
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#6
China is our friend as well, according to Henry
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/30/2008 18:08 Comments ||
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#7
Note Kissinger's barely veiled threat to dismember Pakistan if they don't get with the program.
#8
PAKISTANI DEFENCE FORUM > ONE HUNDRED TERROR GROUPS AT WAR AGZ INDIA; + BANGLADESH SECULAR DEMOCRACY STRUGGLING WITH VIOLENT RADICAL ISLAMISM. JAMAAT-E-ISLAM is an UMBRELLA/COVER ORGANIZATION for approxim 100 ISLAMIST POLITICAL-MILITANT [Sub]GROUPS IN BANGLA [only 4 - up to 2 had been Banned] - up to 2.5Milyuhn indigenous ethnic tribal members are facing serious, even malicious, competitive pressures from repatriated Bengali Muslims imported by Bangla's Govt to help wid local dev of their tribal regions. SAUDI ARABIA [$$$ for Pro-Radicalist Temples, Madrassas]+ PAKISTAN [Islamist Militant-Anarchist Breeding Ground]BELIEVED TO SUPPOR/FEEDING THE STEADY OR "CREEPING" ISLAMIZATION/TALIBANIZATIN OF
BANGLADESH.
* INDIAN DEFENCE FORUM > TERROR GROUPS MAY USE NUCLEAR AND BIOLOGICAL [CBRN/NBC]DEVICES, to include advanced = complex mechanical and psychological devices, and in addition to sophisticated MILITARY-STYLE TACTICS; + MAJILIS-E-ITTEHADUL MUSLIMEEN [MIM] POLITICAL AND MILITANT GROUP WANTS A SEPARATE URDU STATE.
#9
Boittom line: if Pakistan wants to be a sovereign nation, then they need to act as one, including cintrilling internal areas and cross-borders banditry.
MUMBAI: If there has been one inexplicable angle in the terror plot it has been the two blasts in taxis at Wadi Bunder and at Vile Parle on Wednesday night. The two powerful blasts which reduced the two cabs to merely axle and wheel did not tie in with the terrorist operations which were limited to major hubs in south Mumbai.
Now it appears that the explosive-laden taxis were not meant to carry death to other parts of Mumbai, rather the terrorists wanted to eliminate any trail that might lead the investigators to them early on. In this case it meant the hapless taxi drivers who ferried two batches of terrorists from near Badhwar Park to various destinations.
Just as these men killed everyone they met on their way from Porbander to Mumbai, including a fisherman on the boat Kuber which they had hijacked, the taxi drivers were the other men who could identify them.
"We suspect that the terrorists had planted bombs in the taxis in anticipation that those taximen may leak their plans and may identify them later. We are cross checking these details," said Joint Commissioner of Police (crime), Rakesh Maria.
According to crime branch officials, a batch of ten terrorists landed at Machchimar Nagar at Cuffe Parade at around 8.30 pm on Wednesday in dinghies. From there, as reported by us earlier, they split in four groups. Four of them went toward the Taj, two to CST, two to the Trident and the final two to Nariman House. In all, these men hired four taxis. Crime Branch officers now suspect that possibly explosive devices were left in these cabs both of which went off within 15 minutes of each other and seem otherwise unrelated to the main terror operation.
Investigators said they were trying to locate all taxis that the terrorists may have used from Badhwar Park.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 15:11 ||
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Any possibility the taxis blew up because their drivers strenuously objected to being used in that manner?
Azam Amir, the terrorist who was held by the Mumbai Police, has made some striking revelations regarding the Mumbai terror attacks.
Azam has disclosed that the Pakistan Navy had trained the terrorists in boating and swimming to carry out the attacks in Mumbai. Azam was arrested on Wednesday from Girgaum Chowpatty in an encounter with the police. Ismail Khan, an accomplice of Amir, reportedly died in the gunbattle.
Sources say Azam has also revealed that people from gangster Dawood Ibrahim's gang helped the terrorists from Karachi in organising the attacks.
Reports suggest that the planning for the terror attacks in Mumbai had begun almost a year ago in Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir. Azam has reportedly told the police that around 20 Pakistan nationals were trained in PoK to carry out the attacks. The training in PoK went on for almost five-and-half months, during which the terrorist were taught the use of sophisticated arms and ammunition.
At the end of the five months training, all terrorists were given a months leave and were ordered to gather in Karachi after the break for training in boating, rowing and swimming by the Pakistan Navy.
They were then handed over some CDs and maps of the Taj and Oberoi hotels. The CDs and maps also had pictures of important rail stations like VT. At the end of this training a batch of 10 terrorists was set off for India via the Indian sea route.
Mumbai Police expects more details will come out during the course of their investigations.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 10:19 ||
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#1
The ISI is a cancer. Our CIA must go "direct action" and start killing these roaches. In large numbers.
#2
Easier said than done, OS. Most of the ISI is in Pakistain, and our CIA doesn't have the penetration (as far as I know, and they don't talk to me) in that country that would allow us to hunt the ISI.
Posted by: Steve White ||
11/30/2008 11:10 Comments ||
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#3
well, we should be making a list, so when President Obama orders the invasion...
Posted by: Frank G ||
11/30/2008 11:48 Comments ||
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#6
This isn't ISI if it is Dawood Ibrahim's gang. He might have paid for some training by ISI but ISI wouldn't have planned this.
Ibrahim is the same guy that did the bombings in 1993. He is Indian and he has a terrorist organization that includes both Hindus and Muslims. Now the early killings of the primary anti-terrorist officials in Mumbai makes sense.
This was a terrorist operation with an embedded hit squad.
His organization is based in Mumbai and he lives in Karachi. Read the Wikipedia entry on this guy.
He is believed to be provided protection by ISI but that would be mainly because he is a thorn in India's side. He may just have become a major thorn in the side of Pakistan.
This attack makes no sense as an ISI operation but it makes perfect sense as a D-Company (his Mumbai gang) operation.
#7
Dawood and the ISI have been collaborating for decades.
The timers used in the 1993 Bombay blasts were of US military origin from stocks provided to the Pakistani army. The ISI provided these to Dawood Ibrahim and D company.
The ATS officials got killed because they rushed to the scene in the same car and did not expect trained gunmen.
The ISI has been seeking an outrage that would force India to issue threats and thus allow the Pak army to redeploy away from the Afghan border.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 13:10 Comments ||
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#8
I do not doubt that ISI has been supporting / protecting "Dagwood" for years as any enemy of India would be a friend to ISI in some way or another. But this time I believe they went too far. If ISI approved this plan then it speaks of desperation. It would be an "all or nothing" gambit.
This operation would have been counter to any long range plans of the ISI unless they simply don't have a long range strategy at this point and are lashing out in a "last gasp" which I don't believe to be the case.
In other words, I believe "Dagwood" used the ISI more than the ISI used "Dagwood". In any case, it is now time to reach out and touch that bastard and to strongly encourage Pakistan to consider a different primary export. Their current export of murder is not sustainable.
#9
Maybe someone could enlighten us as to what a gangster like "Dagwood" has to gain from this. Seems to me it'd be bad for business as far as he's concerned. Maybe it's not so much him using the ISI as it is ISI using him. I liked the theory someone posted yesterday about AQ wanting to get the Pak army redeployed away from Afghanistan back to the Indian border, even though I still don't believe India is ready to invade Pakistan. Paks are just paranoid enough to believe they might. But if the Pak army redeploys, that area is opened up for US special ops and AQ certainly doesn't want that. Maybe that's what ISI wants, to get rid of a thorn in their side. Involvement of the Pak navy is interesting but it could be Azam is to the point of saying anything he thinks will get the interrogators to stop. Anything he says would have to be carefully corroborated. Rogue elements of the Pak navy? So many possibilities...
Posted by: Abu Uluque ||
11/30/2008 15:13 Comments ||
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#10
If the Pak army withdraws, the Pakiban take over everything. That means a safe haven inside cities, towns and villages. It means that US/NATO supply lines through Pakistan are cut. No amount of special ops will be able to clear out the nest if a third of Pak territory is taken over.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 15:18 Comments ||
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#11
This whole Mumbai incident proves to me that the Civil Govt has no control over the military/ISI.Hardliners dont want peace with India for whatever reason????
ISI fund our enemies in afghan and terrorist groups like Le T attacking India.I think their paranoia of US/India breaking up Pakistan keeps the extremist in a job!!!!!
#14
We can use bombardent to ruin the bridge and road infrastructure in the western part of the country - cut off the pakiban from the army units that just headed off east - then reduce the western region via crop destruction, water source and electricity production destruction. Round this off with the introduction of cholera, plague, hemoragic fevers and a few other genetically altered pathogens. Call me evil all you want-but these people have been telling us over and over that conventional means won't deter them. I say it's time to cull the herd - and hard!
The city crime branch probing the terror attack on Saturday confirmed that only 10 terrorists had entered the city just an hour before the hostage drama unfolded on November 26.
While nine of them were killed in encounter, a 21-year-old was captured alive. Arms and ammunition brought in by the terrorists was enough to kill around 5,000 people, said police.
Cops officially put toll at 162, including 18 foreign nationals. The arrested terrorist, Ajmal Mohammed Amir Kasab, resident of Faridkot village in Pakistani Punjab's Ukada district, told investigators all the terrorists had come from Karachi, police said.
They had come in a ship and used a boat to come to the shore, said the police. "Four Indians were already on the boat and the terrorists killed three of them while they used one, Amar Narayan, to handle the boat. When the boat was just three nautical miles away from shore, they slit Narayan's throat and dumped his body in the trawler. They then used their own skill to come to shore."
"After landing at Fish Market at Cuffe Parade near Colaba, they formed four groups and hired taxis to reach to their destinations. A group of two young terrorists entered Hotel Oberoi, four into Hotel Taj Mahal, two stormed into Nariman House while the rest entered the CST railway station from its mail trains' gate. Their plan was just to cause maximum damage and return with hostages protecting themselves," said Rakesh Maria, joint commissioner of police, crime branch.
As the hostage drama began at around 9.30pm, Kasab along with his accomplice, Ismail Khan, started random firing at CST railway station while the three other teams had began firing at Oberoi, Taj and Nariman House. Kasab, who sustained a bullet injury in his hand during an encounter with the police near Cama Hospital, was captured near Girgaum Chowpatty while Ismail was gunned down. Police recovered a satphone, a GPS tracker, and Indian currency of Rs 6,200. The satphone contains a dozen international numbers.
Kasab, cops said, had come to Mumbai for the first time. Cops are still probing if the same terrorists had planted bombs in two taxis that exploded at Byculla and Vile Parle.
The terrorists, said police, wanted to launch an attack which would have international ripples. "They were to return after completing their plan," said Maria.
He said they all were trained in the same batch in a terror camp. "We have recovered 10 AK-56 rifles, 10 9mm pistols, two explosive devices of eight kg each etc. Kasab and Ismail had fired at Leopold before coming to CST. They all are highly-trained terrorists but it would be difficult to say which terror group they belonged to. We have also recovered 10 fake ID cards of some Indian colleges from the terrorists," said Maria.
He said the terrorists had packed huge quantities of dates, almonds and raisins, which they ate during the three-day gun battle.
True, but he's surprisingly spilling beans and linked them to Pakistan and given some of the operation details. They must have applied some 3rd world torture techniques early on.
Posted by: Grolush Darling of the Hatfields3195 ||
11/30/2008 10:54 Comments ||
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#5
It is called the "Indian Police Beating" (as seen in Bollywood movies).
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 11:18 Comments ||
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#6
THey are not so bound by leftist vision of "proper" interrogation techniques as we are -- and expediency is important due to the possibility of quick followups.
#7
And unlike the USAF interrogator who is axe grinding in another article here, claiming torture is used by the US, there is no time to play mind games and "befriend" him.
"After landing at Fish Market at Cuffe Parade near Colaba, they formed four groups and hired taxis to reach to their destinations. A group of two young terrorists entered Hotel Oberoi, four into Hotel Taj Mahal, two stormed into Nariman House while the rest entered the CST railway station from its mail trains' gate
Weren't there 10 incidents, with 3 of the terrorists gone in the car bombing at the airport?
And then the attacks at the police station and the hospital.
Then you have to figure there was a support network in Mumbai
#9
The numbers have come down. Also the two captured British Pakistanis are no longer mentioned.
Either fog of war or the Indian intelligence has a future planned for them that does not include due process in a court of law.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 13:13 Comments ||
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#10
Did they really apply third world torture to break this guy is my question. Sure, they could have, but by now he HAS to know that he's a goner. Rantburg has been suggesting using pigs and such "evil rascist" techniques to get info for years, maybe the Indian government just offered to bury him in a hog farm if he didn't cough up the goods.
Posted by: Charles ||
11/30/2008 13:29 Comments ||
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#11
They did. But not to him. I suspect examples were made of others and he was given to understand that he was in a strictly binary situation. New article regarding torture, all around, just posted. Might even have made Jack Bauer nauseous.
Takfiri jihadis are allowed to eat pork and drink alcohol, consort with strippers and whores, so that they may deceive the enemies of Allah.
Ordinary Muslims are allowed to eat pork if that saves them from starvation.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 15:35 Comments ||
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#15
Charles, do you really think a stone cold Muzz kook is afraid of a hog farm? It's like saying American Forces are afraid of burd flu.
I suspect it depends on whether he's still alive when his delimbed torso is thrown to the pigs.
All this argument about whether "torture" works is besides the point, in a lot of ways. I doubt the North Vietnamese ever really got tactically or strategically important information from any of the prisoners they tortured. BUT: The North won their war. The kids of the torturers own factories where the kids of the guys in the South (those that didn't come to the US) work for $ 2/week making Nikes. At some level or another it worked.
#17
Look, you were the one who wanted to argue about whether brutality "worked." Well, look out at the planet, those governments that really are brutal seem to control a very large fraction of the human population.
An Anti-Terrorism Court (ATC) on Saturday formally indicted a juvenile suspect and recorded testimony of a prosecution witness in proceedings concerning the assassination of former premier Benazir Bhutto.
Bhutto was assassinated in a gunshot and bomb attack on December 27, 2007 in a public park in Rawalpindi when she was leaving the place after addressing an election rally. The court is trying five suspects - Rafaqat Hussain, Hussnain Gull, Sher Zaman, Abdul Rasheed and juvenile Atizaz Shah - in a jail trial for their alleged involvement in the incident. Five other accused, including Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan chief Baitullah Mehsud, are still at large and have been declared proclaimed offenders by the court. The court framed charges against Atizaz Shah and recorded the statement of a prosecution witness Kashif Bashir, a police official. The court adjourned further proceedings till December 6.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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Two people were killed in a bomb blast early on Saturday. The victims were identified as Wahidullah from Sadu Khel and Shafiullah from Wali Khel. A government official told Daily Times that the deceased might have been carrying explosives which exploded before they had used it. A resident said the nearby truck stand might have been their target because trucks carrying American consignments to Afghanistan used the stand. A Khasadar official said the administration would investigate the blast.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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Scores of western sleuths are arriving in India to collaborate on the investigations of the Mumbai terrorist attacks, fast becoming a global issue. Sources here said the US, the UK, and Israel were collaborating with India in the investigations and sending experts to interrogate the lone apprehended terrorist, and a team of Afghanistan-based CIA operatives, Foreign Ministry officials from Israel, and intelligence officials from the UK will arrive in Mumbai on Monday, sources said. An FBI team is also on its way to Mumbai to join the investigation.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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At least three people were killed and two injured in a missile attack by a suspected United States drone in Chashma village in North Waziristan Agency, local sources said on Saturday.
They said that the attack targeted the house of a local tribesman Taj Muhammad, around two kilometres south of Miranshah. There was no immediate information about the identity of those killed.
However, official sources denied reports of the suspected drone attack on North Waziristan Agency, APP reported.
"The news of a missile strike on North Waziristan is incorrect," the official sources said. US drone attacks on Pakistani territories continue despite the government's repeated condemnations of unilateral action. The government maintains that such attacks thwart local peace efforts.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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Top|| File under: al-Qaeda in Pakistan
#1
Dronezap just doesn't have the same ring to it as Helizap. Sigh! I guess you can't have everything.
Posted by: ed ||
11/30/2008 7:33 Comments ||
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#7
"The government maintains that such attacks thwart local peace efforts."
Yes, if America would just stand down in FATA and the tribal areas of NWP, the taliban, and their alqaeda allies would be talking peace with the Paki-wakkies. Pakiwakkie-talibunnie peace means something totally different from the Western concept of peace.
Indian troops shot dead seven militants, including two alleged Pakistanis, in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) ahead of another round of voting in state elections, police said on Saturday. "The militants were killed in two separate gunbattles in Pulwama and Bandipora districts," a police statement said. Two of the militants were Pakistani nationals and 'both were members of Lashkar-e-Tayba' militant group, the statement alleged. The fighting came ahead of Sunday's third round of voting in Kupwara district, considered 'sensitive' by election officials because it borders Azad Kashmir. Indian troops have ringed all 448 voting stations to provide 'foolproof security' to voters in the wake of the Mumbai attacks, a police officer said.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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Security forces brought a three-day assault on India's financial and cultural capital to an end Saturday morning, killing the last remaining gunmen holed up in one of the city's luxury hotels after freeing hostages and recovering bodies from two hotels and a Jewish center Friday.
Pakistani officials, responding to charges by Indian leaders that the attack was carried out by an organization with ties to Pakistan, said a senior intelligence officer would travel to India, in an apparent attempt to ease tensions between the two nuclear-armed states.
Indian officials said they now believe that at least 15 gunmen carried out the operation after reaching Mumbai by sea. After an interrogation of one of the attackers, Indian intelligence officials said they suspected that a Pakistani Islamist group, Lashkar-i-Taiba, was responsible. An Indian intelligence document from 2006 obtained by The Washington Post said members of the group had been trained in maritime assault.
Authorities said that the death toll had risen to 195 as more bodies were discovered and that 295 people were wounded, the Associated Press reported, in attacks on the hotels, the Jewish center and several other sites in Mumbai. Among the dead were two Americans from Virginia; the American rabbi who ran the city's Chabad-Lubavitch center and his Israeli wife; and three of their visitors, including an American man, an Israeli woman and a man with U.S. and Israeli citizenship. In all, 16 non-Indians have been reported killed.
Explosions from fighting at the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel could be heard outside the hotel early Saturday morning, and flames and thick, inky-black smoke were seen pouring from the first floor.
Every crisis has its defining images. In Mumbai's massacre, it was the elegant Taj engulfed in flames. "It hurts my heart. It's like India itself is on fire," said Sanjay Jadhu, 43, a firefighter at the landmark hotel who was covered in soot.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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#1
Shot, burnt, maimed: Terrorists died violently
Shibu Thomas & Rajiv Sharma I TNN
Mumbai: Bodies of eight of the terrorists, who wreaked havoc in south Mumbai, bore not only bullet wounds but also severe burn injuries, said officials from the post-mortem centre at JJ Hospital in Byculla on Saturday.
Two fingers of a terrorist, who was slain by security forces at Oberoi Hotel in Nariman Point, were severed. He may have been shot on his fingers or lost them in an explosion, an official told TOI reporters. The second terrorist, also brought dead from Oberoi, had been shot in both eyes.
Severely charred bodies of three terrorists were brought from Taj Hotel on Saturday evening to the post-mortem centre, said police officials. All the eight terrorists were young, fair and of South Asian origin. The Oberoi terrorists would be between 20 and 25 years of age, said officials, who didnt wish to be named.
An official from the postmortem centre said, We have preserved the terrorists hair, long bones, deep muscles, blood and teeth samples to find out about their DNA type. These samples will help the investigating agencies to establish their identities.
A preliminary examination has revealed that the terrorists had multiple bullet wounds as well as burn injuries. This means that they were also injured in the explosions, said an official. While four of them were stockily-built, one was lean, he added.
DNA samples of some of the foreigners who were killed in the attack have also been preserved. Underlining the importance of conducting a post-mortem on every body, a senior doctor said, Each case is different and it is important to carry out an autopsy. This will help investigators understand the nature of the explosives used by the terrorists.
Police surgeon Dr S M Patil said doctors from all other postmortem centers have been deputed at JJ Hospital. We have requested the police to bring in the bodies at the earliest to prevent further decomposition, he said.
Posted by: john frum ||
11/30/2008 8:56 Comments ||
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Iraqi authorities have uncovered several shallow graves north of Baghdad containing the bodies of 33 people believed to have been executed by Al-Qaeda earlier this year, officials said on Saturday. Police, health officials and local residents unearthed the bodies, many of which had been blindfolded and handcuffed, at the village of Abu Toama in the Diyala province north of Baghdad, one of the deadliest regions in the country.
Dr Ahmed Fuad, director of the morgue at the main hospital in the provincial capital of Baquba, confirmed he had received the bodies but had not yet determined their time of death.
One of the corpses had a woman's long hair and another appeared to be a child, according to an AFP photographer.
The bodies appeared to be around a year old, meaning they would have been killed in the months after Al-Qaeda seized control of the area in late 2007, district police chief Major General Ibrahim al-Anbaki said.
Residents said Al-Qaeda drove everyone out of the village in early 2008 and transformed it into a "courthouse" where they tried and executed people from surrounding areas according to a radical interpretation of Islamic law. The killings took place over several months, with small groups of bodies buried together at different times, Anbaki said.
When US and Iraqi security forces drove Al-Qaeda out of the area earlier this year, returning villagers were tipped off to the shallow graves by the smell of decay and an abundance of stray dogs in the area, Anbaki said. "We expect to find other graves in the orchards of this village," he added.
The ethnically and religiously mixed Diyala province, once famous for its verdant orchards, has seen scores of attacks and sectarian killings in recent years and remains dangerous despite US and Iraqi security crackdowns.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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Sri Lanka's air force carried out a series of attacks against Tamil Tiger rebel targets, including a heavy gun position and a guerrilla training camp, while a separate infantry clash killed four guerrillas, the military said Saturday.
It said jets bombed the gun position in the rebel headquarters of Kilinochchi on Friday and the training camp in Visvamadu village on Saturday. Also Saturday, helicopters bombed a group of rebels who were trying to stop soldiers from reaching Paranthan, a strategic crossroads north of Kilinochchi, it said in a statement. Pilots claimed success in all the attacks, the military said, without giving casualty details.
Meanwhile, military spokesman Brig. Udaya Nanayakkara said soldiers captured Otiyamalai village in the northeastern Mullaitivu district Saturday in a move that could make several other rebel bases unstable and prove crucial for the military's march deeper into rebel territory. Soldiers also killed four guerrillas and beat back a counterattack in Mullaitivu district, he said.
Rebel officials could not be reached for comment. It is difficult to verify battlefield reports because most reporters are barred from the war zone. The government has vowed to crush the rebels to end their decades-old separatist war. It says its forces are closing in on Kilinochchi, the rebels' de facto capital, while other troops are advancing toward the rebel stronghold of Mullaitivu on the northeastern coast. The rebels have been forced to give up large swathes of territory in heavy battles over the past several months.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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Iran has sentenced to death three men convicted of a mosque bombing which left 14 people dead in the southern city of Shiraz in April, Kayhan newspaper reported on Saturday.
Prosecutor Ali Akbar Heidari-Far said Mohsen Eslamian, 21, and Ali Asghar Pashtar, 20 - both university students - and Rouzbeh Yahyazadeh, 32, would be hanged in Shiraz once the sentence was confirmed by the supreme court. "A revolutionary court in Tehran has found the three main accused of the case to be 'mohareb' (enemies of God) and 'corrupt on the earth'," he said, without disclosing when the verdict was issued.
The three men were tried over the bombing of a packed mosque during evening prayers in Shiraz and also faced charges of "belonging to a terrorist group," co-operating with hostile armed groups, seeking to overthrow the Islamic system and planning to launch other attacks. "This verdict has been sent to the supreme court for validation and as soon the confirmation of the sentence returns they are going to be hanged in Shiraz," Heidari-Far added.
Posted by: Fred ||
11/30/2008 00:00 ||
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#2
Funny story. Several years back my then 8 year old son asked me, "dad what's heroin?" We were at dinner and all the diners near us immediately stopped what they were doing and leaned in to hear how I would respond. It was like the old E F Hutton commercials.
I stammered a bit looking around the room and finally said, "son it is a horrible drug."
He said, "no dad, my teacher said Amelia Erhart is a Heroine what are you talking about?"
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Security forces brought a three-day assault on India's financial and cultural capital to an end Saturday morning, killing the last remaining gunmen holed up in one of the city's luxury hotels after freeing hostages and recovering bodies from two hotels and a Jewish center Friday. 
Formal Evening Wear for Amelia? 
