Police said a 22-year-old man was charged with filing a false report about a hate crime.
Floyd Elliott, of Independence, told police that on Dec. 14, two subjects attacked him in the parking lot of his apartment complex. He said the attackers cut him in the stomach, branded him with a hot knife, and attempted to carve the word "Fag" on his forehead. Investigators were suspicious about the report because the head carving was backwards, as if done while looking into a mirror.
Later, Elliott admitted to police that the injuries were self-inflicted. He said he falsely reported the attack to increase the police presence in his neighborhood.
#3
I'm in the KC area, and this is the first I've heard of this. I think the giveaway was that anyone from Independence probably would have spelled it wrong. ;)
#2
Bill Moyers, the editorial board of The Nation, the English department of any given college or university...it just makes me warm all over. Hopefully Yasser Arafat is banging her in hell.
Posted by: Jonathan ||
12/28/2004 14:11 Comments ||
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Hopefully Yasser Arafat is banging her in hell.
That's a pretty hateful statement, Jonathan. And tell me, in your vocabulary, is getting "banged" a punishment, a gift or somehow both?
#4
by Yasser? You've seen his mug.... if that's a gift, I'd have to refuse, thanky
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 14:21 Comments ||
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We could think of Susan Sontag as a traitor. But she was more than that. She had a direct responsabilit in the Cambodian genocide and in the massacres perpetrated by the North-Vietnamese. She was criminial against humankind.
#6
Reminds me a joke one of my girlfiends told me. I will americanize and actualize it.
Bill Clinton dies and goes to hell. There the devil tells: "For our most distinguished guests we allow them to choose their punishment". After seeing people being roasted, impaled, whipped he sees a room where Yasser Arafat is banging Angelina Jolie. Clinton tells the devil he wants that. Then the devil says: "For Bill Clinton same punishment than for Angelina Jolie".
#8
Says here she was an "essayist". I think that's beautiful people for, "writer that doesn't sell many books, but thinks like we do". Kinda like "humorist" is "comedian that isn't funny, but thinks like we do".
Either way, I never got the big deal.
#11
Another MSM leading light burns out. Good riddance.
Funny to hear her described as an "activist." Perhaps I'm misinformed but I thought activists were people who actually spent a great deal of time agitating for very specific social or legislative changes.
This woman's major claim to fame was on essay on "camp"-- y'know, Batman, drag shows, etc. What specific social change did this woman suffer on behalf of?
#13
Published in the New Yorker By Susan Sontag in the aftermath of 9/11. Draw your own conclusions:
The disconnect between last Tuesday's monstrous dose of reality and the self-righteous
drivel and outright deceptions being peddled by public figures and TV commentators is startling, depressing. The voices licensed to follow the event seem to have joined together in a campaign to infantilize the public. Where is the acknowledgement that this was not a "cowardly" attack on "civilization" or "liberty" or "humanity" or "the free world" but an attack on the world's self proclaimed super-power, undertaken as a consequence of specific American alliances and actions? How many citizens are aware of the ongoing American bombing of Iraq? And if the word "cowardly" is to be used, it might be more aptly applied to those who kill from beyond the range of retaliation, high in the sky, than to those willing to die themselves in order to kill others. In the matter of courage (a morally neutral virtue): whatever may be said of the perpetrators of Tuesday's slaughter, they were not cowards.
Our leaders are bent on convincing us that everything is O.K. America is not afraid. Our
spirit is unbroken, although this was a day that will live in infamy and America is now at war. But everything is not O.K. And this was not Pearl Harbor. We have a robotic president who assures us that America stands tall. A wide spectrum of public figures, in and out of office, who are strongly opposed to the policies being pursued abroad by this Administration apparently feel free to say nothing more than that they stand united behind President Bush. A lot of thinking needs to be done, and perhaps is being done in Washington and elsewhere, about the ineptitude of American intelligence and counter-intelligence, about options available to American foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East, and about what constitutes a smart program of military defense. But the public is not being asked to bear much of the burden of reality. The unanimously applauded, self-congratulatory bromides of a Soviet Party Congress seemed contemptible. The unanimity of the sanctimonious, reality-concealing rhetoric spouted by American officials and media commentators in recent days seems, well, unworthy of a mature
democracy.
Those in public office have let us know that they consider their task to be a manipulative
one: confidence-building and grief management. Politics, the politics of a democracyâwhich entails disagreement, which promotes candor--has been replaced by psychotherapy. Let's by all means grieve together. But let's not be stupid together. A few shreds of historical awareness might help us to understand what has just happened, and what may continue to happen. "Our country is strong", we are told again and again. I for one don't find this entirely consoling. Who doubts that America is strong? But that's not all America has to be.
Susan Sontag, one of America's most influential intellectuals, internationally renowned for the passionate engagement and breadth of her critical intelligence and her ardent activism in the cause of human rights
Rescuers struggled to reach India's remote islands on Tuesday, two days after devastating tsunami struck southern Asia, saying that they found barely third of the residents on one Island still alive. On another island, piles of rubble and debris was what left of the housing blocks of an air force base. Authorities said they have lost contact with most of the islands, including, Grand Nicobar, one of the biggest Indian islands and the closest to the epicenter of Sunday's earthquake which caused a tsunami that killed more than 50,000 in 11 Asian countries.
According to India's police at least 5,000 people are confirmed or presumed dead in 550 islands bordering Myanmar and Indonesia. The death toll across India is estimated at 10,000. With thousands still missing and rescuers struggling to reach or even contact some areas, Interior (Home) Minister Shivraj Patil predicts that the death toll will rise during the coming days. On the Andaman and Nicobar island of Chowra, rescuers said they found only 500 survivors from the Island's 1,500 residents, the territory's deputy police chief, C. Vasudeva Rao said. "We thought the entire island was washed away. But we found 500 survivors," he said. Authorities failed to contact two neighboring isles, home to a combined population of 7,000. "We are fearing the worse in these islands. We have heard nothing from them," Rao said. "We have no information."
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 3:27:20 PM ||
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Call me callous, but I can't help wondering how much of this death toll is being inflated so that local and central government officials can increase the amount of foreign aid they can skim off.
#2
I doubt that very much. As the Marines keep pointing out, most of the world's population lives within a couple miles of the ocean.
I imagine the current death toll is much higher than the known death toll, and once you work in the probable disease and destroyed infrastructure, things are going to get worse.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/28/2004 17:25 Comments ||
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I think the toll will go over a million but we will never truly know.
#4
That these nations' governments had no earthquake or tsunami warning system is criminal. If you live near alpine peaks, you owe it to yourself and your neighbors to understand and prepare for avalanches. If most of your impoverished population lives along the coast, then a minimal requirement of any decent, responsible government is a management system and appropriate warning systems related to flood tides and other ocean-related disasters.
Posted by: God Save The World ||
12/28/2004 23:06 Comments ||
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#6
Geez. That sucks... In synch with that item I've been hearing on Fox that the majority of the actual tsunami victims are Westerners - the preponderance being Europeans and Aussies - which certainly fits with the problems I've had trying to get Christmas reservations in Phuket.
Because they organize into vacation clubs or join commercial vacation clubs and, when the venues are selected, they consume huge blocks of hotel space at a resort with one phone call or email.
via Drudge An earthquake that unleashed deadly tidal waves on Asia was so powerful it made the Earth wobble on its axis and permanently altered the regional map, US geophysicists said. The 9.0-magnitude temblor that struck 250 kilometers (155 miles) southeast of Sumatra island Sunday may have moved small islands as much as 20 meters (66 feet), according to one expert. "That earthquake has changed the map," US Geological Survey expert Ken Hudnut told AFP. "Based on seismic modeling, some of the smaller islands off the southwest coast of Sumatra may have moved to the southwest by about 20 meters. That is a lot of slip."
The northwestern tip of the Indonesian territory of Sumatra may also have shifted to the southwest by around 36 meters (120 feet), Hudnut said. In addition, the energy released as the two sides of the undersea fault slipped against each other made the Earth wobble on its axis, Hudnut said. "We can detect very slight motions of the Earth and I would expect that the Earth wobbled in its orbit when the earthquake occurred due the massive amount of energy exerted and the sudden shift in mass," Hudnut said.
Another USGS research geophysicist agreed that the Earth would have got a "little jog," and that the islands off Sumatra would have been moved by the quake. However, Stuart Sipkin, of the USGS National Earthquake Information Center in Golden Colorado, said it was more likely that the islands off Sumatra had risen higher out of the sea than they had moved laterally. "In in this case, the Indian plate dived below the Burma plate, causing uplift, so most of the motion to the islands would have been vertical, not horizontal."
The tsunamis unleashed by the fourth-biggest earthquake in a century have left at least 23,675 people dead in eight countries across Asia and as far as Somalia in East Africa. The tsunamis wiped out entire coastal villages and pulled beach-goers out to sea. The International Red Cross estimated that up to one million people have been displaced by the natural calamity.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
12/28/2004 2:27:57 AM ||
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A consideration when considering using GPS for property surveys. Say Bill, what used to be on your land before the quake, now appears to be on mine!
#2
They say we lost 3 microseconds from the event, because the quake's force backwashed against the west to east rotation of the Earth, sort of like a plane using it's flaps to help slow down!
Well, look on the bright side, we're all younger by a fraction of a second...exilarating!
The first "pendulum seismoscope" to measure the shaking of the ground during an earthquake was developed in 1751, and it wasn't until 1855 that faults were recognized as the source of earthquakes.
The world's deadliest recorded earthquake occurred in 1557 in central China. It struck a region where most people lived in caves carved from soft rock. These dwellings collapsed during the earthquake, killing an estimated 830,000 people. In 1976 another deadly earthquake struck in Tangshan, China, where more than 250,000 people were killed.
Tsunami
A Japanese word made up from two characters. The character âtsuâ means harbour and the character ânamiâ means wave.
The figure below shows the amplitude, trough and crest of a tsunami wave in relation to the sea floor and still water level. Note how the wave shape changes and the height increases as it approaches the coastline.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
12/28/2004 15:32 Comments ||
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#4
The folks at NIST (Nat'l Institutes of Standards and Technology) are drawing straws as to who gets to go adjust the atomic clock...
#5
Note how the wave shape changes and the height increases as it approaches the coastline.
A firsthand video from Phuket just shows the water just rising and rising. I kind of expected a wave similar to the breakers on the beach. Watching the water rushing in was a bit unnerving.
Notes: clicking on the link will result in a Forbidden error - simply right-click and select Save As. Also, big file, dialup users don't even bother with it.
#7
BAR - the "save as" choice was grayed out when I tried it.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 20:14 Comments ||
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#8
IIUC usually the tide goes out - wayyyy out- right before the waves hit. Should a quarter-mile of previous seafloor become beach in a few seconds....RUN
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 20:18 Comments ||
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#9
the "save as" choice was grayed out when I tried it.
How about "Save Target As.." (IE), or "Save Link Target As.." (Mozilla)?
You gotta see it. An older couple was hanging onto a rail as the water flowed in and were trying to get to a nearby balcony and they were swept away right in front of the camera.
The death toll in the tsunamis that ripped across Southeast and South Asia climbed above 24,000 on Tuesday as emergency and government officials said two days after the disaster that they feared the number of victims would increase sharply. Bodies continued to wash ashore as thousands of people were missing - washed out to sea, buried in rubble or trapped in submerged buildings. Hundreds of thousands were left homeless, and coastlines left desolate. "We have to assume that thousands of people who are missing are dead," U.N. Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland told reporters in New York. The cleanup was well under way, and international relief efforts began as disease threatened the areas devastated in Sunday's disaster.
Egeland said millions of people would be affected in the "second wave" of the tsunamis, meaning disease outbreaks and lack of necessities after the disaster. "Drinking water for millions has been polluted," he said Monday at U.N. headquarters in New York. "Disease will be a result of that, and also acute respiratory disease always comes in the wake of disasters."
Regional governments and businesses were still coming to grips with the extent of the devastation, triggered by an undersea earthquake off the northern tip of the Indonesian island of Sumatra. The magnitude-9 quake, the world's biggest in 40 years, spawned ferocious waves that caused deaths as far away as Somalia and caused water levels to rise as far away as San Diego, California. The tsunami produced waves as high as 6 metres, and their force was so strong that one tourist couple in Sri Lanka who were tumbled in the tsunami were stripped naked. They survived, penniless, but by the goodness of Sri Lankans, had clothes to travel to an airport to try to fly home. The hardest-hit areas were poor fishing villages on the coasts of southern India and Sri Lanka in a disaster the United Nations called "a catastrophe without precedent". More than 12,000 were dead in Sri Lanka, and the toll in India neared 7,000. Deaths were also recorded in Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar (Burma), Malaysia, the Maldives, Bangladesh and Somalia. At least a third of the dead were children.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/28/2004 12:42:21 AM ||
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BTW, King Bumibol of Thailand's grandson (half American) was jet-skiing, off Phuket I think they said, and was killed. I'd say it's a safe bet that the King "gets it" regards this disaster - and would've guessed he would, anyway. He's quite old, now, but for a King thingy, he was an ace. Anyway, there will certainly not be any detached authoritarian view of the disaster in Thailand from anyone in power.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 9:01 Comments ||
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#6
You can put it at 100,000 lost and probably still won't count or account for everybody.
Many of those lost were in small, poor villages by the coast. Probably most of them had no relatives inland who will look for them, and probably none of them had ID. We'll never know the true extent of the loss of human life.
And the economic losses will haunt these countries for years.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#7
Barbara - And I can't wait for the breaking news story coming out of Islam that the Jooo DeepSea Submersible The Lion of Zion was spotted off Sumatra only 3 days before The Day After Tomorrow event... I'll bet Al Jizz gets the scoop...
#8
The loss in human lives could have been reduced, to a degree, if an Indian Ocean based early warning system had been in place.
The death toll has it stands right now are only known, reported bodies. Some islands have yet to report.
After another week or so the totals may very well reach 75.000 to 100.000. Many of those will be people who were pulled out to sea and not accounted for.
Posted by: Mark Espinola ||
12/28/2004 15:44 Comments ||
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#9
When I was at lunch the estimated totals were at 49,000, according to Fox. They're probably higher than that now.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/28/2004 15:54 Comments ||
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MANAMA — Scores of Syrian companies are taking part in the 12th Syrian Products Exhibition that opens here today. The Minister for Commerce, Ali Saleh Al Saleh, will open the exhibition at the Bahrain International Exhibition Centre (BIEC) Hall One. The annual event will continue until January 8, offering a wide-range of Syrian products at special prices.
Illiterate hard boyz who can barely fire an AK should go for a song. Various Mahmouds who can smuggle explosives are a bargain. Graft-prone officers stand at the ready for all your needs. Perhaps Zim-bob-we will come shopping?
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/28/2004 12:37:00 AM ||
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The Iraqi budget is a bit tight going into the election. D'you suppose they could return some of the captured hard boyz for a refund?
MANAMA — Four opposition societies have formed an alliance to launch a new campaign to demand "constitutional changes," they deem is necessary to ensure a true democratic environment in the Kingdom. The campaign is likely to be launched before March. The decision was taken at a meeting held by the leaders of the four societies: The Islamic Action Wefaq Society, the National Democratic Action Society, the Nationalist Assembly and the Islamic Action Society who all agreed to take the action.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/28/2004 12:21:54 AM ||
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So that's: 1 democratic group, 2 Islamist, and 1 probably fascist. If I were the sultan (?) of Bahrain I would have even their bugs bugged. And then arrest them all on general principles, because democrats that hang out with multi-flavoured fascists aren't quite right.
Lee Teng-hui's trip to Japan dealt a serious blow to the political foundation of China-Japan relations, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Liu Jianchao said yesterday. "This deeply undermines our natural centuries-old enmity!"
The 81-year-old former Taiwan leader arrived in Japan on Monday on a sightseeing visa. "A heretic - running loose! Can't you see how dangerous he is, you stupid fools?"
He wields a murderous cane!
The Chinese Foreign Ministry has lodged a strong protest to the Japanese Government over the issue, said Liu during a regular press conference yesterday. "China will closely follow the development of the situation" said Liu, and will reserve the right to take further action. "We now have no choice but to annihilate you!"
According to China News Service, Lee, the chief representative of the radical force for "Taiwan's independence" on the Taiwan Island, is also planning to visit Japan next year during the cherry blossom season. "This is incredible! You would violate the sanctity of our hatred for each other so an old man can see cherry blossoms? How low can you get?"
It said that Japan is very likely to issue another visa. [Sound of revving engines...]
Regardless of the repeated solemn representations and firm opposition by the Chines side, the Japanese Government issued a sightseeing visa for Lee Teng-hui to visit the country. "We solemnly offered you the opportunity to consider the long-term geopolitical ramifications of issuing this war-mongering sightseeing visa... You have caused us great loss of face. The harm is obviously irreparable. You will all die for this as just punishment!"
China solemnly asked the Japanese side to consider the overall situation of China-Japan relations, and take effective measures to deal with the impact of the issue, said Liu. "How will we be able to show our diminished face in the UNSC after this! Taiwan, the US, even Russia will laugh at us! It is humiliating! It is a catastrophe! The Japanese must be made to pay dearly! Kill them! Kill them all! And wipe out those cherry trees while you're at it!"
#3
Lee can get all the dim sum he wants at home, Frank. I'd prefer to think that his Japanese hosts are offering him a kaiseki ryori that includes fine sashimi and Kobe beef tenderloin.
Just gotta love those high context societies. If China keeps up all this sabre rattling, Japan, Korea and Taiwan will all go nuclear and swiftly neuter Chinese dreams of domination. I'd love to see a mutual response pact (a la NATO) between America and these three small democracies. It's time for China to STFU.
December 28, 2004: China has built it's first ocean patrol ship that can operate a helicopter. The ship (PSOH-15) was seen after launch, in the colors of the Maritime Security Agency (diagonal red stripe on the hull near the bow, similar to the stripes on U.S. Coast Guard ships). Another such ship is apparently being built in southern China, on a frigate hull. The Maritime Security Agency (MSA) is a strange organization. It is actually a composite of at least four different naval patrol forces (customs service, the naval militias, civil and military police units). This includes the marine arms of local police forces that have coastal areas in their jurisdiction, and many vessels that are basically merchant ships. This last element is quite different from Western practice. These MSA ships do their regular work most of the time. But if MSA headquarters radios them with a MSA mission, the ship takes off and follows its orders.
Like the Chinese Army that has factories producing commercial goods, MSA ships haul cargo until needed, generating it's own funding.
In terms of numbers of ships, the MSA is larger than the Chinese navy. But most MSA ships are small. There are several hundred 100 and 200 foot ships that appear to have a secondary role to support covert operations in wartime. But unlike the navy ships, which have been caught engaging in piracy, the MSA is generally respected. This is probably because MSA takes care of safety and rescue operations. The helicopters on the two new MSA ships are probably intended for rescue work. China has an enormous number of coastal freighters, plus many more fishing boats. Whenever there is rough weather, there's lots of rescue work. It's a state secret exactly how many ships are part of the MSA, but estimates are in the hundreds, possibly near a thousand if the part time ones are included. The MSA would be mobilized in wartime, and would be a major player in any amphibious operations against Taiwan.
A swarm of less capable small ships fits the historic Chinese tactic of mass attacks. Interesting problem for the defense of Taiwan.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/28/2004 11:18:05 AM ||
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unlike the navy ships, which have been caught engaging in piracy
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 09:06 ||
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What is said and what is done are two different things. The bottom line is that China and the US have been actively preparing for confrontation since the 1980s, so whatever the "provocation" for war that is given is inconsequential. Much like a married couple who seek a divorce supposedly because of an argument over which way the toilet paper roll hangs. The issues are far deeper than that.
Posted under China, since they will "host"...
Once-bitter rivals Russia and China will hold a massive joint military exercise on Chinese territory next year involving submarines and possibly strategic bombers, Russia's defense minister said Monday as the two nations move to bolster already burgeoning military ties. Many observers saw the announcement as Russia's response to a spat with the United States and other Western nations over the disputed election in Ukraine, Russia's neighbor, where the Kremlin-backed candidate trailed a pro-Western politician in near-final results. "For the first time in history, we have agreed to hold quite a large military exercise together with China on Chinese territory in the second half of the year," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said at a Cabinet session chaired by President Vladimir Putin, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency. "The Russian side will not bring big numbers of servicemen, but mostly state-of-the art weapons - navy, air, long-range aviation, submarines - to practice interaction with China in different forms of military maneuvers."
After decades of rivalry, Moscow and Beijing have developed what they call a strategic partnership since the Soviet collapse. China has become the No. 1 customer for Russia's struggling defense industry, purchasing billions of dollars worth of fighters, missiles, submarines and destroyers. Officials with Russia's state arms-trading company, Rosoboronexport, said last week that China was expected to sign new contracts next year to purchase Russia's most advanced fighter jets. Both nations frequently have spoken about their adherence to a "multipolar world," a term that refers to their opposition to a perceived U.S. domination in global affairs. And there you have it. Tsar Putty and the ChiComs.
Posted by: .com ||
12/28/2004 1:25:38 AM ||
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Now please refresh my memory...why did GWB rave about Putin being our great ally? What exactly did Putin/Russia do for us since WWII that gave them ally "status" pray tell?
#4
Now please refresh my memory...why did GWB rave about Putin being our great ally?
Because he looked so very deeply into Putin's eyes and saw the man's soul revealed there.
Yeah, you can't get any more stupid than that. But I guess those are the benefits of the whole faith-based approach you see. It's nice to see the "leader of the free world" use such tactics to determine who's naughty and who's good. Though he'll need a bit more accuracy before he can apply for the position of one of Santa's elves.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 7:24 Comments ||
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#6
Oh, real smart Puty. Just show the Chinese how unskilled and ill lead your forces are. Let the Chinese with an ever growning military budget see what they need to know and do to insure China's recovery of their lost northern territories. Ever wonder how China will secure its future oil needs without having to confront the US Navy?
I am suprised to see a comment from you. I thought you would be on the next plane to the tsunami affected areas, to rebuild the Christian/Jew hating mosque's. I would be so saddened to see that you didn't do your part in promoting hate speech and persecution in these countries. BTW, have a good time and don't forget to take olive oil and goat cheese, the Mooselimbs love that stuff.
#8
(I am with Zenster)
Additionally, I am looking forward to these military exercises. I am sure the U.S have lined up just about every military satellite for this one. We are just going to love finding all the weak spots. This exercise will help the U.S develop better counter weapons.
#9
Putty-Puts version of the China card. Old Nixon scheme of yore.
Posted by: Capt America ||
12/28/2004 12:06 Comments ||
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Poison Reverse, you've already been the only person I know who's been villainous enough to be happy for the dozens of thousands of deaths in the countries struck down by your mass-murdering deity -- including obviously all the thousands of innocent children.
Now I wonder: if (as sounds logical) we all be judged by our *desire* to do good or evil rather than our *capacity* to the same -- will it be you or Osama Bin Laden who'll have a darker place in hell?
in these countries
Yeah, you see countries, I see people. You are all for the collective, I'm all for the individual. Once again we two exemplify the difference between the liberal and the fascist.
#11
Hey, Aris, has the death toll reached that of the 9000individuals Hugo Chavez has personally fired and now imprisoned from the now, state owned and controlled oil industry?
You talk a nice, big, fat assed talk, but when it comes time to actually get up off it, you really can't walk the walk, now can you?
Posted by: an dalusian dog ||
12/28/2004 14:04 Comments ||
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#13
#10 showing it's true colors..ranting like the moonbat it is...Poison Reverse did not mention anything about killing dozens of thousands of deaths if that is even a number your blitering idiot..
Posted by: Dan ||
12/28/2004 14:44 Comments ||
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#14
Once again we two exemplify the difference between the liberal and the fascist.
Nope, PR has just demonstrated to you the difference between being a moonbat asshole and a realist.
#18
Aris: Because he looked so very deeply into Putin's eyes and saw the man's soul revealed there.
Yeah, you can't get any more stupid than that. But I guess those are the benefits of the whole faith-based approach you see. It's nice to see the "leader of the free world" use such tactics to determine who's naughty and who's good. Though he'll need a bit more accuracy before he can apply for the position of one of Santa's elves.
Actually, you can't get much more stupid than Aris. (Considering his ancestors were the sophisticated Byzantines, it's pretty amazing how retarded he is - it might be this - not being religious, he has no idea of the deviousness, via apparent guilenessness, of which Christians - including the Byzantines - are capable). You don't get to be an ace poker player by telling people what your cards really are. Bush whispered sweet nothings about Putin to the press, but spent most of his first term sticking it to Russia by stationing US troops in almost every former Soviet republic and sheltering Chechens who were wanted by the Russians. GWB took down Russia's favorite Arab client state, Iraq, and refused to honor the sweetheart deals that were signed with Russia. Note that the US abrogated several weapons treaties with Russia after GWB looked into Putin's eyes. Who's the moron - Aris or GWB? My vote goes to Aris, by a country mile.
#19
wellllllllllll
Guess I don't have to share my choice for moron, do I?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 18:49 Comments ||
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#20
didn't that booty slammin greek say he wasn't posting here anymore?
Posted by: Dan ||
12/28/2004 19:08 Comments ||
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#21
as in so many things, he lied
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 19:08 Comments ||
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#22
Aris, You comparing me to Osama, who killed my fellow countrymen is greatly appreciated
You are welcome. Why should I not compare people who are both fond of mass murder and genocide as they believe their god commands it?
I have sympathy for Jews/Christians, not the pagans who want to kill them.
What about those pagans who *don't* want to kill them? Any shred of sympathy for them?
You have some balls, bringing up innocent children that died in the tsunami, what about the innocent Jewish children that died by the hands of Paleos/Hamas.
What about them? It's you who indicated delight in the deaths and lack of sympathy. It's not me.
(Considering his ancestors were the sophisticated Byzantines, it's pretty amazing how retarded he is
Ah, more racism. I should have had "intelligent genes" because of my national/racial descent?
You don't get to be an ace poker player by telling people what your cards really are. Bush whispered sweet nothings about Putin to the press, but spent most of his first term sticking it to Russia by stationing US troops in almost every former Soviet republic and sheltering Chechens who were wanted by the Russians.
Nicely said, but I don't buy it. Statements made by politicians do matter, and Bush's "sweet nothings" aren't "nothing" in acting to the appeasement of a tyrant who is still consolidating his power in his own nation.
it might be this - not being religious, he has no idea of the deviousness, via apparent guilenessness, of which Christians - including the Byzantines - are capable).
Are the Byzantines an example of *good* Christians according to you?
GWB took down Russia's favorite Arab client state, Iraq,
LOL! Oh, yeah, adding a new reason to the laundry list of reasons to take-out Iraq. I wish you people ever made it clear in your own heads what the real reason is.
Note that the US abrogated several weapons treaties with Russia after GWB looked into Putin's eyes.
Was that Bush or Rumsfeld?
If your argument is that Bush only *pretends* to be a complete and utter moron, then I must congratulate him -- he has done such good a job at it that he's convinced more than half the world about it.
#23
thanks for confirming your status. May it is? whoop whoop! - don't consider the shower ruffstuff as hazing, it's a confirmation of your EU-ness, dhimmi
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 20:08 Comments ||
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#24
Was that Bush or Rumsfeld?
So your "proof" that Bush is a moron comes down to that the evidence otherwise are decisions made by his puppetmasters because everyone knows he's a moron...
You know, I'm beginning to think the European left is a bunch of idiot savants, infinitely intelligent about rationalizing their prejudices, but retarded about choosing which prejudices they "believe" in to begin with.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/28/2004 20:18 Comments ||
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#25
Aris, if you believe that Bush is a complete and utter moron, then you are a complete and utter moron. Bush may not be a polished speaker, but he has wisdom that is far beyond your tender, immature years. You may be all flushed with pride having just earned your masters degree, but Bush has one too. And he also has some experience that you don't: pilot, campaign worker, husband, businessman, father, team owner, Christian, governor, president, re-elected-president. Come back when you've gotten a life.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 20:26 Comments ||
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#26
From our EU idiot savant's Live Journal:
"Last four days (since about Thursday evening) I've been playing Sid Meier's Pirates! non-stop, with the only breaks being those relating to food, sleep or other bodily functions."
Nuff said.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 20:30 Comments ||
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#27
Phil> So your "proof" that Bush is a moron comes down to that the evidence otherwise are decisions made by his puppetmasters because everyone knows he's a moron...
No, because there's not a shred of an intelligent statement that ever seems to have escaped his mouth, except in the occasional prewritten speech. But any question asked, he opens his mouth and the flood of stupidity just comes rushing out.
How's this for a different idiotic statement: When he declared Chirac (personally!) the best friend that America ever had?
As for Rumsfeld, Rantburgers have been masters in distinguishing between the supposedly moronic *State Department* decisions and the supposedly intelligent White House decisions. And I have never once challenged that reasoning. So why are you suddenly upset by the idea that semidecent anti-Russia policy by Rumsfeld need not be a result of Bush's direction?
I'm beginning to think the European left is a bunch of idiot savants
Except that I'm not part of the European left. I'm only part of the "left" as defined by American perceptions of the left-right spectrum.
#28
You are welcome. Why should I not compare people who are both fond of mass murder and genocide as they believe their god commands it?
Obviously, you were not referring to me because, the last time I checked, I don't have any power to create earthquakes. Unless, Oh! I get it. You think the Christian God is a murderer and have commited genocide with the tsunami's. You are looking for a God that YOU can command. So, you are in need of "grant my wish" King not King of Kings. Therefore, you will persue your own twisted compassion, science and hate, become an atheist and hope to prove one day that there is no need for a God. Typical and clinically insane, are your statements. I already do congratulate you, for NOT "pretending" to be a moron. Your dhimmi-ness, your MSM-ness, your LLL-ness, etc.
#29
Tom> And he also has some experience that you don't: pilot, campaign worker, husband, businessman, father, team owner, Christian, governor, president, re-elected-president
Alcoholic, asshole, son of a former president...
I wonder if the qualifications (or similar ones) you've given couldn't equally well apply to most other presidents and presidential candidates in US history, including people typically called morons in Rantburg -- like Carter.
Poison Reverse> I don't have any power to create earthquakes.
You have the power to take delight in them -- as you have done. Do you think that's not also a choice you'll be judged by?
You are looking for a God that YOU can command.
I'm looking for facts, which you don't give a damn about. As for your God, he either exists or he doesn't. Whether there is "need" for a God or not is irrelevant. Facts don't happen because of the perceived need for them.
As for Tom, he keeps up on his online stalking of me. Why are you so obsessed with me, Tom, that you need to monitor my livejournal? Do you have a crush on me or something?
#30
Aris: "I wonder if the qualifications (or similar ones) you've given couldn't equally well apply to most other presidents and presidential candidates in US history, including people typically called morons in Rantburg -- like Carter."
Answer: That's right, Aris, even Carter is way beyond you. Stop playing pirate and get a life here in the real world.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 20:51 Comments ||
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#31
A stalker telling me to get a life? That's rich. Stop monitoring my lj, Tom. It doesn't concern you.
#32
Asshole? He's a recovered alcoholic, and since when is being the son of a former president a liability. Are you sober right now, Aris? Because you have called my president stupid, a moron, and an asshole and that's a bit over the top even for you.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 20:56 Comments ||
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#33
You have the power to take delight in them (deaths)
I don't take delight in every death. But, I do take great delight in the deaths of people who kill Christians and Jews, especially, for their beliefs. Have you read the article "Sri Lanka refuses help from Israel". I don't see any Jew hatred there, do you? The tsunami affected countries hate Christians/Jews when they need help, imagine how much hatred they possess, when they don't need any help. Again, I don't take delight in their death, but I have no sympathy because their hatred runs deep.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 21:05 Comments ||
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#35
Aris, if you don't want the world to know about you, then don't have your diary on-line and Item #3 in any Google search of your name. And don't post signed insults on foreign blogs. Can't you find anyone to socialize with in Greece?
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 21:06 Comments ||
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#36
He's a recovered alcoholic
He's also former-most of the things you've mentioned.
, and since when is being the son of a former president a liability.
It does show that natural ability needn't have been the only thing that propelled him to all those so very exalted positions.
Because you have called my president stupid, a moron, and an asshole and that's a bit over the top even for you.
I have called *my* prime minister worse things.
Only people who see their officials as divinely ordained, people who are used to bend over for authority, perceive such things as blasphemy.
Yes, I've called your president stupid, moron and a former asshole. Deal.
#37
Thank you, Aris, for continuing to live down to your ideals...status quo jerk. Somebody's bitch in May
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 21:09 Comments ||
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#38
A Greek and Italian were sitting down one day debating who had the superior culture.
The Greek said, "We have the Parthenon." The Italian said, "We have the Coliseum."
The Greek said, "We had great mathematicians." The Italian said, "We had the Roman Empire."
And so on and so on it continued, until the Greek said, "We invented sex."
The Italian said, "That is true... but it was the Italians who introduced it to women."
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 21:12 Comments ||
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#39
don't take delight in every death. But, I do take great delight in the deaths of people who kill Christians and Jews, especially, for their beliefs. Have you read the article "Sri Lanka refuses help from Israel
And tell me is Sri Lanka "people", or is it a country? Can you tell the difference?
Again, I don't take delight in their death, but I have no sympathy because their hatred runs deep.
Ah, that so very nice pronoun "their", yet again. *Their* hatred runs deep. You've looked deep into the souls of hundreds of millions of people in the whole region, and you've judged that in *all* of them, "their" hatred runs deep.
Collectivist.
Tom> Aris, if you don't want the world to know about you, then don't have your diary on-line and Item #3 in any Google search of your name.
I don't hide myself. The things I would hide, I'd make them private. Your stalking is creepy not because of the things you supposedly reveal (which as you say I've made public), but simply because you indulge in it.
An enemy taking photographs of your house and noting the times you come and go is creepy, even if your address isn't a secret, even if I don't go out of my way to hide any of those things. You are not a friend, Tom: So stop taking photos of my house -- stop monitoring my lj. You are being creepy.
Friday, May 21st, 2004 Time: 6:01 pm. * * * Speaking of politics, I partook in an exceptionally exhausting flamewar over at Rantburg, on Sunday. I think it's the first time in my life that I've ever been called a goatfucker. Or a communist for that matter. But even more annoying than that were the two-three times that people were asking me questions and were assuming in advance (and wrongly for that matter) that I wouldn't be able to answer.
I think my participation at Rantburg is swiftly approaching its end. It was useful as a source of hard information, but the fanatical idiocy there is way too rampant, and seems to be becoming worse with each passing week.
I don't know what to make of it, but it's interesting . . .
#42
How's this for a different idiotic statement: When he declared Chirac (personally!) the best friend that America ever had?
Sometimes diplomacy means saying "nice doggie" while looking for a rock. It doesn't necessarily mean you think the doggie is nice, or Chirac's a friend, or really imply anything about Putin's soul.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/28/2004 21:18 Comments ||
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#43
And as a sidenote that also goes for google-searching my name. Dude! Could you be any more obsessed?
Maybe he's looking for the real Aris. I dunno.
Seriously, I've tried, on and off, to keep links to the weblogs of the major thread participants at Rantburg. This includes a link to your livejournal.
If you meant for your livejournal to be private, however, I could remove the link. What do you want me to do?
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
12/28/2004 21:22 Comments ||
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#44
Another Joke:
"My Antivirus programs are several years old so no wonder they didn't catch this." -- Aris, March 16, 2004.
Punchline: Aris just got his masters in Computer Science.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 21:22 Comments ||
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#45
LOL Tom - nice catch..... heeeee heeee
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 21:27 Comments ||
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#46
As long as you don't harass me over it, Phil, like Tom does, I don't mind you reading anything I write.
Tom on the other hand has already declared himself an enemy however who tries to stalk me across the Internet to find any info he can to use against me -- even if I've made such info public, that still qualifies as "creepy" where I'm concerned.
I can easily make most of my livejournal private, except that several friends of mine don't have lj account and this would shut them out also. *shrug* Always an option, but it'd be annoying to be forced into doing.
#47
Stick with me, Frank G, and we can jolt him right out of his pirate fantasies.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 21:30 Comments ||
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#48
Oy, vey. I've learned to ignore Frank, Tom, and I think I can just as easily learn to ignore you.
The change point is when I move from perceiving you as a vile adult to an annoying neighbour kid. An adult I can have rage and contempt for. The little kid that jumps all around me screaming "notice me, *please* notice me", I can take pity on -- but it's ignorable and fails to make me more than mildly annoyed.
#50
intolerant EUrocratic statist atheist..who proclaim moral superiority. Ignore or ignorance on your part is fine with me, Aris. As long as you troll here, I'll ride your ass like the absent Ãberfather you despair over
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 21:46 Comments ||
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#51
Sorry, I'd rather be vile to you, Aris. I'm twice your age, I've had a real life, and I find you to be almost as pompous as Chirac. And like Chirac, you live in a fantasy world in which the President of the United States is a moron but you can spend your time in fantasy land and then come out and tell us how we should see the world. It's all so Arisified.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 21:47 Comments ||
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#52
Careful Frank, with that "ride your ass comment."
Aris is going to start replacing the letters "lj" with "bj".
Yeah, but it doesn't matter what you'd "rather" be. Yes, I've spent several days of my Christmas vacation playing computer games -- you think that's something I'll be ashamed of?
You're twice my age but that's only biologically, I'm afraid, if you're wasting your time digging through the journal of an insignificant person you despise.
Poison Reverse> What about me, can you learn to ignore me?
Awww, but *your* vileness isn't an issue of jumping around me and trying to annoy me, Poison Reverse.
And I didn't accuse you of "intolerance" Poison Reverse. I'm accusing you of having the soul of a genocidal murderer. You are an ideological enemy when Frank and Tom are merely brats who don't know what they are talking about. It took me a while to perceive Frank as one, but once the transition was made, it was easy enough for me.
#54
"I am Aris. I speak for all idiotarians everywhere and demand immediate complicity with my obviously superior, but highly nuanced as the situation demands(situational ethicality), sense of morality. I will prevail for I can sit at my computer longer and type more shit than anyone else alive. I am the Master of Self-Debate and can carry on both (or more) sides of a 'discussion' without assistance. Everyone else, once I have the bit between my teeth, is superfluous. Post, if you wish, derision, contempt, and insult. I will wear you down. Resistence is futile. You will be assimilated. My opinions are facts and I will prove it by the volume of opinion and invective available in my vast storehouse of (otherwise) useless drivel. As the most petty, pedantic, and obnoxious confirmed asshole ever to post on RB, including Boris and NMM, I have accumulated links on all of you - carefully spun to my advantage - and I will not debate your points, I will seek to overwhelm you with my shopworn bookmark organizational skills until you throw up your hands and go away in frustration. This venue is mine. This thread is mine. All your opinions are belong to me. They are inferior for I am the gratest of the grates: I am Aris The Grate."
[hat tip to .com]
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 22:01 Comments ||
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#55
thanks Aris :-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 22:07 Comments ||
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#56
Actually I *wish* I had accumulated links on all of you, but alas the thing .com despised instead was the fact that I had enough memory cells to remember what had been spoken and then wasted some of my time to bring up relevant quotes and links when a person would lie about me or be self-contradictory.
Facts always got in the way of a good anti-Aris bash session, after all.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 22:12 Comments ||
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#59
Osama is also a genocidal murderer, you Einstein you. You may be surprised to know that Hitler has not been the only person in the history of the world to have deserved the title "genocidal murderer".
#60
"Facts always got in the way of a good anti-Aris bash session, after all"
sung to the tune of "poor poor pitiful me" Ronstadt or Zevon versions...
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 22:13 Comments ||
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#61
Poison Reverse is from Texas, so he must be a genocidal murderer. Isn't that right, Airass Crapsaris?
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 22:26 Comments ||
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#62
Aris,
"Genocidal murderer" means planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group NOT religious group, you Einstein you. Osama is killing in the name of religion. He doesn't care which race he kills.
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish. Oh, that's right, aethist contributions to the world, are null. Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference. What an opportunist.
#66
Boigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.
You're a bigot, Aris, on a global scale.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 22:40 Comments ||
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#67
I see my posts are currently being relocated to the sink trap. I've already stated that if Fred wishes me away from this site, he need only ask: I always respect the wishes of a forum's creator. So this is a request to Fred to clarify the issue -- am I allowed in Rantburg or not?
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 22:46 Comments ||
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#69
Yes, that's exactly right. Trying to post (like providing multiple quotes by Einstein showing he had declared himself an atheist) again sent my comments to sinktrap. So I want to know what the deal is with that.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 22:50 Comments ||
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#71
Really? I didn't know google refs caused that automatically. Very well: reposting without that:
----
national, racial, political, or ethnic group NOT religious group
Wrong again. "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
Instead of trying to find out if Einstein was a atheist or not, why don't admit that YOUR definition of genocidal murderer was, wrong. Or am I supposed to bow to you, even though you are wrong, your LLL-ness.
#73
Gave you the official definition of "genocide". Don't care if you choose to accept facts or not -- I know you won't.
And it's rather amusing when it was *you* who made such a fuss about Einstein being a supposedly deep believer in God, that you now choose to disregard the issue as insignificant.
I didn't "try to find out" if Einstein was an atheist or not -- I already knew he was. What I did was provide the quotes that proved it.
#74
What is this "current convention" nonsense? What are you, king of the world, making up your own definitions?
As far as the (supposedly accurate) quotes from Einstein, why don't you reference the link. How do I know that you didn't get these quotes from a Roooters article.
#75
Google for them, idiot boy. There are a hundred different references. I won't copy paste all of them.
As for the "current convention", that's the United Nations' definitions, a convention which was signed as well by the United States government, ratified by the US Senate in in 1986-FEB-11, implemented by Reagan on 1988-NOV-25.
#76
stolen from another post by Tipper: TOP 10 REASONS FOR BEING GREEK
1.You get to shout about your culture although the only real culture most Greeks have is what is growing between their toes. 2.The police are even more corrupt than the criminals they are supposed to be chasing.
3.You can blow your nose in the street by pinching it between the thumb and forefinger and trumpeting forth without everyone around wretching their stomach contents up at the sight.
4.Old women can sport moustaches.
5.Young women can sport moustaches.
6.Men can be hairier than the average grizzly bear and not get put in a zoo.
7.You get to call the bouzouki a musical instrument when the rest of the world sees it as an instrument of torture.
8.You are the only nation to have lost its marbles and still wants to let everyone else around the world know about it.
9.Ridiculous bureaucracy.
10.Nana Mouskouri and Demis Roussos.
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 23:14 Comments ||
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#77
a little bigotry for our EU bigot - nite nite, aris
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 23:17 Comments ||
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#78
Aris,
I didn't ask you for the links, not because I don't have the capability to do research, idiot boy. I have already studied the history of Einstein, idiot boy. I just wanted to make sure that you were not using some twisted atheist web source, for your twisted propaganda, idiot boy.
Einstein ended up not believing in a "personal God" because he could not understand how God could allow suffering, it had nothing to do with science issues. He had personal issues with God. He ended up believing in a cosmic God in his scienctific reasearch. Then he realized what a big mistake he made, stating that there was no God. Therefore, he is not an atheist.
#79
I'm curious why Aris's comments were sent to the Sinktrap. They seem proper. Could the editor explain?
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
12/28/2004 23:39 Comments ||
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#80
BTW,
The "current convention" of genocide is not in the dictionary, idiot boy. Unlike you, I give sources, idiot boy. Look at the links below, see if you can find word "religion," idiot boy.
#81
I just wanted to make sure that you were not using some twisted atheist web source
Yeah, you were just being all noble and stuff.
"it had nothing to do with science issues. "
*shrug* Who cares? If anything it's even better, as it makes his disbelief a moral choice instead of a piece of intellectual reasoning.
So, Einstein became a deist - a believer in an impersonal creator God"
Which essentially means that Einstein's god *doesn't* cause earthquakes and doesn't have the power to avert them. I have no objection to such a god either.
Einstein's deism is for all practical purposes atheism in disguise. It doesn't allow miracles, it doesn't allow an interference by God into human affairs, it doesn't place God as the center of morality, it doesn't allow for immortality of the soul.
To that extent Einstein was even less of a believer in God than me, since I have no inherent disbelief in either the immortality of the soul or even a God that interferes to a small extent.
Anyway your lie about knowing Einstein's history, Poison Reverse, is revealed by the fact you used the phrase "he was Jewish" in talking about Einstein's *religion*. Had you known squat about Einstein you'd have know that though ethnically Jewish, this had nothing to do with his religious beliefs.
#82
Mike> Seems it was the google ref about the definition of genocide which I had offered to idiot boy. Instead of telling him to just google for the definition of genocide, I had offered a link that'd let him do that automatically.
Not sure why this was necessary: have trolls used google refs in the past?
#83
Such a long paragraph to admit that you were wrong. I love it. Liberals do the same thing in the U.S., all the time.
BTW, I didn't mean that he was a believer in God, because he was Jewish. I am just simply stating the fact that he was Jewish. I guess I really do know squat, about Einstein.
#84
Wrong about what? Einstein called himself an atheist, not a deist. That's still a fact.
People that can't stomach Einstein's own declaration for his own atheism, have attempted to say "Oh, no he wasn't an atheist, he was a deist instead". Big difference for them, since Atheism is supposed to be all evil and stuff, while deism is a bit palatable.
But "deism" is not a word that Einstein ever used to refer to himself -- Einstein used the word "atheist" instead.
#85
Aris,
Don't worry about your link that went to the sink trap. I have posted the definition link on post #80.
Nite, Nite. Your are soundly defeated once again. You are going to need bigger intellectual weapons, if your going to come against this proud American.
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
Tom> Boigot: a prejudiced person
Against whom am I prejudiced, Tom? I'm not even prejudiced against Bush voters.
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
BTW, Why are you using the name Einstein? You do know that he was a strong believer in God, he was Jewish.
Even if it had been true, so?
But actually even though ethnically a Jewish, religiously he was an atheist, exactly like Asimov was.
Here's a quote from Einstein
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
Also this:
"Thus I came--despite the fact I was the son of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents--to a deep religiosity, which, however, found an abrupt ending at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived...Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience, a skeptical attitude... has never left me..."
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings."
"I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. "
Therefore, there aren't any atheists you can reference.
LOL! Yeah, right. Einstein, Asimov, Carl Sagan. No atheists whatsoever I can reference.
jackal> Just to make it clear, I've never called Bush "Hitler".
Tom> Boigot: a prejudiced person
Against whom am I prejudiced, Tom? I'm not even prejudiced against Bush voters.
Italy has called for an end to the Protocols of the Elders of Kyoto Kyoto Protocol after the environmental treaty's initial period in 2012, preferring voluntary agreements that would entice the United States, China and India to tackle climate change. Moving away from the European Union's traditional championing of the legally binding nature of the U.N. pact, Environment Minister Altero Matteoli said continuing Kyoto in its current form would be useless without the agreement of some of the world's biggest polluters. "The first phase of the protocol ends in 2012, after that it is unthinkable to go ahead without the United States, China and India," Matteoli told reporters at Kyoto-related talks in Buenos Aires in quotes confirmed by his ministry on Wednesday. "Seeing as these countries do not wish to talk about binding agreements, we must proceed with voluntary accords, bilateral pacts and commercial partnerships." The United States, which emits a quarter of the world's and one third of the developing world's greenhouse gas, pulled out of the pact in 2001 That's a goddam lie right there; we were never in the "pact." But it wouldn't be a Rooters story without at least one lie about and gratuitous slam to the U.S.
Um, actually Pres. Clinton had signed it but never sent it to the Senate to ratify, since the Senate had said it wouldn't do so. According to the accord, just signing it put you 'in', but Clinton made it clear we wouldn't abide by it until the Senate ratified. It was Pres. Bush who revoked our signature, necessary to ensure that we'd never be held to any of the terms.
saying it would harm the economy Congress said it would harm our economy when Clinton was still president; notice how Rooters blames it on the Bush Administration? Again, disgusting but not surprising.
Not only did all the Republican senators vote on the advisory resolution to reject the Accord, but almost all the Democratic ones did so as well. I think the final vote was 95 - 0. Rare to find such a united front in the Senate.
and was unfair as it did not set targets for developing countries. But the EU plowed ahead and secured the backing of other big emitters Japan and, just last month, Russia. Because Russia figures it can make money selling carbon credits, and doesn't intend to honor it anyway.
Under the pact, developed countries must reduce their emissions by an average of 5.2 percent of 1990 levels by the period 2008-12, a commitment which the ministry said Italy intended to honor. Signatories are expected to sign up for bigger cuts in a second period after 2012 in a rolling process aimed at bringing emissions down to levels that will not affect the climate, considered to be at least a 60 percent global cut. 60%? Yeah, like that'll happen. And how the hell do these wankers know what will "affect the climate"? The biggest thing that affects our climate is the SUN. What are they planning to do about that? (I probably don't want to know.)
That's why they need the Russians; for those big heavy rocket boosters.
Italian environmentalists accused the government of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of showing common sense abandoning Kyoto and cosying up to President Bush, who he met in Washington later on Wednesday. Ya' just knew they'd have to come along and crap in the punch bowl....
The head of Italy's green party called for Matteoli's resignation. "Never in recent years has Italy shown as much good sense embraced in such a servile way the most anti-environmental positions of the Bush administration," Alfonso Pecoraro Scanio said. Stand your ground, President Bush. Some people are starting to notice the Kyoto ship has been sinking for years, and are finally thinking about getting off before it's too late.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 11:19:19 AM ||
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#1
I read a couple of days ago(don't remeber where)that the U.S. has cut air pollution by 50% since 1980.How much has the E.U cut in the last 20 years,Aris?
#2
Kyoto has ZERO to do with preventing global warming or making earth a cleaner planet. The UN exempted the 2 biggest nation polluters ( China and India) from following the Kyoto Protocol, so what does that tell you?
Kyoto is all about re-distribution of $ from rich to poor nations. Under Kyoto every nation would get environmental "credits". So industrialized affluent countries like the US, Canada, UK, Italy, Japan, etc could buy credits from Third World unindustrialized hellholes like Zimbabwe or S.Africa without effecting pollution one way or the other. Especially if global warming is a natural cycle that happens every 4000 years whatever as many scientists believe, then global warming will continue even if we all rode bicycles to work every day. However, Western businesses and taxpayers would take it in the neck big time with additional "discreet" taxes to pay for these extra credits from Third World countries.
A UKRANIAN minister accused of being behind the plan to move tens of thousands of government supporters around the country to engage in illegal multiple voting in November's annulled presidential election, was found shot dead last night. The body of Heorhiy Kirpa, the minister of transport, was found in his country house just outside the Ukrainian capital Kiev, said Eduard Zanyuk, a spokesman for the country's railways. "The man has passed away. An investigation will clear up the circumstances," he said.
"As soon as we decide on a cause of death, we'll manufacture find the evidence to back it up"
Following the re-run election on Boxing Day and the victory for opposition leader Victor Yushchenko, Mr Kyrpa had been expected to face questioning and possible criminal prosecution for his part in the November vote rigging. Speculation in Kiev last night among demonstrators and diplomats was that he may have been assassinated by those fearing he would give investigators details of the extent of November's vote- rigging operation. However, local press also said he may have taken his own life.
"Yuri, how many "C's" are there in "suicide"? I've got to finish this note."
Mr Kyrpa was a respected member of the government of Viktor Yanukovich. Before the vote-rigging controversy he had attained cross-party praise for reforming state railways and opening high speed rail links between the capital and several provincial cities. But the opposition claimed Mr Kirpa used his powers to allocate trains to transport Yanukovich supporters to vote at multiple polling stations in presidential balloting last month that was annulled by the Supreme Court.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
12/28/2004 3:19:51 AM ||
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Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev said on Monday he did not expect the "break-up" of Ukraine after the weekend election victory for opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko. "Even though some of his followers have extremist views, Yushchenko will show wisdom and not allow a break-up," he told the Interfax news agency.
Who gives a rip what he thinks?
With more than 90 percent of voting precincts counted after Sunday's presidential runoff, West-leaning Yushchenko had a clear lead over his rival Viktor Yanukovich, who was backed by Russia. The vote has divided the former Soviet republic between its Ukrainian-speaking west, which backed Yushchenko, and the Russian-speaking east which largely supported Yanukovich. However Gorbachev, who led the Soviet Union from 1985 to 1991, said fears of the break-up of the country of 48 million people were unfounded and Kiev would continue to maintain strong ties with Moscow despite Yushchenko's Western outlook.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 00:00:00 ||
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#1
That's not egg on his face.
Posted by: Capt America ||
12/28/2004 12:08 Comments ||
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Damn! It's so obvious! Why didn't I think of that?
Nobody but nobody scuttles to the front of a poll like a Clinton.
LONDON: The United States should back Ukraine's struggle for democracy by inviting the new president to Washington for a state visit, but only if the elections are free and fair, US Senator Hillary Clinton said on Monday in a commentary for London's Financial Times. "Today, amid the 'Orange Revolution,' the Ukrainian people are once again demonstrating that they will not give up in the movement towards democracy and freedom," Clinton, the wife of former president Bill Clinton, said in a piece published the day after the rerun presidential election in the former Soviet Republic. Such freedom went beyond the right to vote, the senator, a Democrat who could become a presidential contender in 2008, said.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 00:00:00 ||
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#1
F**kin Duh.
Waited till the re-run of the election was finished. I takes a heap o' gall to be Hillary.
#2
Hildabeast is a socialist slimeball, but she is not a stooopid socialist slimeball, like JFfairy and Albore. She has likely noticed that there are significant Ukrainian communities in Ohio(20 electoral votes), Pennsylvania ( 21 electoral votes), New Jersey ( 15 electoral votes)etc. So while GWB is embracing ex-KGB-with soulful blue eyes, Putin, Hildabeast is making like a Commie fighter for the press corps. She has also recently criticized the WH for allowing a porous border to exist with Mexzico, while GWB was having his annual hug fest with Vincent and the other thug-leaders from S. America.
#3
That pic of Hillary? Ugh.... double ugh.... wonder if that is one that was taken when the FDNY booed her as she entered stage right, at a fund raiser, just after 9-11?
A salute? After how she treated those gallant Marines whose call to duty required the protection of "Broomstick One?"
I may be from Arkansas (now longer in Texas than AR), but cheezzzz.... we are back to polls of where to go on vacation.... and what beach to dance on to show our love. Now, we salute and support the "Orange Revolution."
#4
The United States should back Ukraineâs struggle for democracy by inviting the new president to Washington for a state visit, but only if the elections are free and fair,..
The U.S. should back Ukraine's struggle for democracy?? BRILLIANT!
#5
The United States should back Ukraineâs struggle for democracy by inviting the new president to Washington for a state visit
And arrange a meeting between Hillary and Kateryna Chumachenko Yushchenko who was, I read in Tukip Girl blog "a more pro-freedom Reaganite you could not meet"
We did back their struggle for democracy while it was going on, but quietly - unlike the heavy-handed KGB Putin. But now that you know who won, you speak up. Typical political bullshit.
I'm surprised her finger hasn't frozen and fallen off by now, putting it up as much as she does to see which way the wind is blowing before she commits.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 11:18 Comments ||
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#8
When faced with Democracy she had no other choice but to acccept it. You all think this is crazy but this is exactly what people lapped up about Billy Jeff. To hear her on the news she sounds quite sincere and honest and that is what most people are hearing. We need to shine the light on her or we will end up with that witch in the White House AGAIN. That also means not nominating someone that will turn off conservative voters.
#9
Sarge, you sound like a Democrat. The Donks may end up with her at the top of the ticket, and probably will in '08. But the country won't end up with her in the White House. Most know her and love her or hate her. The haters exceed the lovers and those not in either group will not split in her favor strongly enough for her to ever see the inside of the White House without an invitation, so rest easy.
And if you are a Democrat, think of '08 as therapy. It is something the Democrats will have to go through to return to the real world.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/28/2004 12:36 Comments ||
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#10
Oh-oh. Mendiola will set the cap lock key on "kill" when he sees this.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/28/2004 12:42 Comments ||
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#12
Sarge, you sound like a Democrat.
Joe got the hots for Hill?
Mrs. Davis, I think you read our msgs. but missed our points. While it is true that Broomhilda and Billy Jeff do not represent our flavor of politics, we should not be so cocky as to ignore their obvious strengths as political animals. Billy Jeff did not rise to the Oval Office from the backwoods of Arkansas because of his politics-rather it was because of his excellent politicking and gamesmanship skills. I would even suggest to you that there were a fair number of RB'ers, GOP voters now, who voted for Billy Jeff 2X in a row. I was not one of them, nor do I think Sarge was. What about you?
Broomhilda has been Billy Jeff's understudy, his adoring pupil. Do not under estimate her skills. Every day from now until 2008, she is positioning herself and changing the image that voters are storing in their memory files. Two years from now instead of remembering Hildabeast for Travelgate Vince Foster and the failed socialized medicine scheme, they will remember her as the Ukraine's most vocal supporter and the only Senator who has serious worries about the porous southern border. The GOP need to neutralize her every move starting yesterday. GWB is not running for the Oval Office again, his main goal is legacy so he could care less about checkmating Hildabeast. The GOP movers and shakers better start caring and fast.
#13
joeblow - Mrs D was responding to #10 - and the reference is to another poster here. He is, shall we say, colorful - particularly in his use of the Caps Lock key and a shorthand notation for which most of us have no Rosetta Stone to decipher.
#14
Every day from now until 2008, she is positioning herself and changing the image that voters are storing in their memory files.
Heh heh heh, if you thought we had a lot of files stored on the life history of the Senator from Cambodia, just wait till the Hildabeast begins to run.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/28/2004 14:17 Comments ||
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#15
I thought someone was working on the Rosetta Stone?
#16
I've got OWG - One World Government. Y'all are on your own on the rest ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 14:56 Comments ||
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#17
Perhaps she should have lunch with the Secret Police.
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 15:06 Comments ||
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#18
Y'all looking for her Achilles Heel? It's not difficult-she is the most horrible kind of role model for women there is: a strident masochist who sold out her feminist principles so she wouldn't have to give up an adulterous spouse. Now, it's true we can't hold her accountable for HIS actions (1) besmirching the presidency by committing adultery in the White House, 2)with an intern-a person connected with the government), 3) subsequently committing perjury about it, 4) reopening the shame and celebrating his disdain for women by saying he did it "because he could". But as a feminist, I DO hold her responsible for subconsciously promoting the notion that other women, with less means, money or support systems, should follow the same path. She could have used the unfortunate "opportunity" Clinton presented her with to help better women's lives. She could have simply said from the first lady's own bully pulpit, "This has been a humiliating and damaging experience. For all those watching out there now who feel sympathy for me, I hope you take this as an opportunity to make sure cheaters you know, even loved family members, understand how this behavior tears apart families. It's the 21st century-it's time to come to grips with what affairs do to relationships. It is not acceptable." All of which is true and would have helped many women and men find the backbone to NOT accept adultery in their homes, to EXPECT fidelity, and in those rare cases when it is violated, EXPECT amends. Instead, like a good little masochist,she swallowed his disgrace for him. Instead she 1)remained silent publicly, 2) as first lady, a model/mentor/figurehead for young women across the country, she encouraged them to believe through her acquiescence that this is normal behavior women will just have to suffer through-no matter how many children are fathered outside marriage/a monogamous relationship. Which, BTW, COULD have happened with Monica, had things progressed.
I am a feminist-and this is the primary reason she lost me.
#19
Hmmmm.... purdy good Jules. Are you for OWG and against the SOCIALIST/FASCIST agenda that we are falling for? CLINTONISM/HILLBILL ACTION will never.... hell, I don't have the genes.... Go Joey! Take it from the Top!
#20
ok, if i get called a Dimmi there's going to be a fight! JK ;-) Joeblow had me right. I was pointing out that this leopard will change spots ten times before 2008. Her hubby was WAY liberal, but presented a moderate stance in public debate. We need to prepare ourselves for the strong possibility that she will end up the top dog on the Dhimis ticket. With that in miind we need to make sure our top candidate is everything Bush is and then some. She will be well funded and have an interim campaign that she will run for national consumption. Look for many "on-the-scene" reports on the networks about how great the Hillary campaign is going and how great she is for the country. McCrab and Dangle can not compete with her on the national scale, so we need to look beyond them. I kind of like Condi but then I would LOVE to see Ann Coulter on the Supreme court.
#22
joeblow, before Nov 2 I might have agreed with you that Hillary was the one to watch for 2008: clearly positioning herself as a neo-centrist, supporting Bush for the most part on Iraq, getting involved in military issues.
However, if Nov 2 taught the Dems anything, it's that, yes, Karl Rove is correct: this is first and foremost a suburban nation, and the most important suburbs are the new ones far outside the cuty centers. Whoever controls the fast-growing "exurbs" will control this country's national politics for at least another decade.
And these exurbs are growing fastest outside of the coasts: central Florida especially and just about anywhere in the rectangle between Houston, Fort Collins CO, Salt Lake, and San Bernardino CA. These towns-- Plano, Texas; Orlando; Colorado Springs; Vegas; Phoenix-- are not Hillary country. She's simply too mired in the urban feminist anti-family agenda to even begin to grasp what these families really care about (hint: it has zip to do with abortion and everything to do with good schools and asset protection/property values).
I simply don't see Hillary appealing much to these folks. The Dems need to start looking for someone who can appeal to sunbelt suburbanites or they can kiss 2008 goodbye.
#24
Too green. Ideally they would have a good bench full of accomplished governors from the southwest but I can't think of anyone of national stature; they've starved their bench for years and have nothing but old or corrupt or out-of-touch coastal senators.
Their ideal candidate would be an ex-military hispanic Obama type from San Antonio or Denver.
#26
If the Dems weren't dominated by coastal gazillionaire lawyers and bankers and brokers and ex-banker senators, they might have a clue about where the center of power lies in this country. My guess is the party hierarchy is too stupid, self-referential and/or corrupt to grasp it. Sort of like the same reason the NY Times is incapable of covering the suburbs with any competence or ability: "You're telling me to spend time in Plano TX or Orlando? Get outta here!"
Not really: focus like the proverbial laser beam on the needs of your average middle-class or blue-collar southwestern suburban family, the very ones who contribute disproportionate numbers of reservists and grunts. Ask them what they care about, and you've got your agenda. Now go fight like hell for them, and you've got your campaign.
#29
yes, Karl Rove is correct
Karl Rove is smart and many times he is correct, but in the 2004 election Rove was very very lucky that the Dems ran Mutt and Jeff.
Think about the outcome if the Dems had run Colin Powell and Hildabeast or Zell Miller and Hildabeast. I think our party would be outside the Oval Office today but for the weak Democrat ticket.
In 2008 if the Dems get a respected clean cut statesman or war hero (facsimile products to Powell or Miller) to be on the ticket with ThunderThighs and defuse her "old baggage",the GOP might be in some trouble. Hildabeast has developed a reputation as a hard working respected Senator, I kid you not. Now she's on the march to project a "respected" persona to American voters outside NY by taking centrist, even conservative positions on national and international issues.
McCain and Guilliani leave me cold...too RINO/neocon and questionable personal life scandals. Jeb=too much Bush dynasty. We have no Prince being groomed in the GOP wings, while Hilda takes advantage of the next 4 years to embellish her image.
#30
In 2008 if the Dems get a respected clean cut statesman or war hero (facsimile products to Powell or Miller) to be on the ticket
not likely. Mr. "I'm too friggin spooky to blink" Wesley Clark, maybe
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 19:23 Comments ||
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#31
They will put a hood ornament on the rusting broken-down hulk and shine it up very nicely. And be absolutely astounded when they get hammered again.
ROTFLMA. Too true. I don't know if you're right that they'll run Obama, but you're spot on about them shining up the hood ornament.
#32
not likely. Mr. "I'm too friggin spooky to blink" Wesley Clark, maybe
What about Schwarzkopf, a registered independent, for the Dems?
If that happened the GOP could try to recruit Tommy Franks. He's got great charisma, he's very articulate, he's a war hero for sure, and he's also very tall- 6 ft.6 in. Successful Presidential candidates usually are taller than their opponents- good that GWB is the exception to the rule! various sources do claim that the taller candidate usually wins. For example, in Language on Vacation (1965), word and number buff Dmitri Borgmann claimed that in the 19 U.S. presidential elections between 1888 and 1960, the taller candidate won the popular vote all but once, when 6'2" Franklin Roosevelt beat 6'2-1/2" Wendell Willkie in 1940. In his 1982 book Too Small, Too Tall psychologist John Gillis presents similar results: in the 21 presidential elections from 1904 to 1984, the taller candidate won 80 percent of the time. What's more, he says, in the whole history of the Republic, only two presidents--Harrison and James Madison (5'4")--were appreciably shorter than the average height in their day.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_308.html
#33
I've heard those facts - explains Tom Daschle standing on a box in debates... While I think the WOT will still be a major issue in '08, I don't see the Dems feeling they need to get a mil-guy on the ballot - it didn't do shit for them this year, in their minds. My fear is a reasonable Evan Bayh- type candidate - he could win the general, but I doubt he'd get outta the primaries. The Dems need to rein in the nuts and loons, and I don't think they can. All signs are that Dean will become the DNC Chairman...Yeeaarrgghh!
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 20:16 Comments ||
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#34
"In 2008 if the Dems get a respected clean cut statesman or war hero..."
I don't see how such a person could make it through the primaries. Unlike 1948, the extremists are the ones in charge and with the money. The moderates and liberals won't be able to purge them; it's more likely to be the other way around.
It's either going to be Hillary or a radical MoveOn type.
It's Kofi's pin money for the week. The least he could do, ya know.
The United Nations said on Monday it would provide one million dollars in immediate assistance for the victims of a powerful quake and tidal waves on Indonesia's Sumatra island and more aid would be made available. Mohamed Saleheen, the acting chief of the UN's mission to Indonesia, said the organisation would work with government teams to coordinate relief aid and a UN disaster response team would arrive as soon as it had permission. He said he held a meeting Monday with 60 representatives from donor countries and international aid groups to discuss assistance. "Donors are wanting to know what quantifiable needs are, what are mechanisms to deliver this (assistance)," he told AFP. Michael Elmquist of the UN's Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Jakarta said his organisation was working with the government to send a team to Aceh, the worst hit province. He said fears were growing for several Indonesian UN employees who were in Aceh at the time of the massive tremor. "Since the quake we have not heard from them," he said. "We hope for the best." More than 5,700 people have been killed in by Sunday's earthquake in Indonesia. Most of the victims were in Aceh.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 00:00:00 ||
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#1
I am glad that some countries, the US among them, is sending the obvious aid items immediately - whilst others are sending assessment teams. Accurate assessment of need is important, but some things are absolute knowns - and those items should be going out with the teams.
#5
And this is after that pompous UN ass Egeland criticizes the US donation ($15 million) and other western nations' donations as "stingy"?! Of course, even if we donated $1 BILLION it still wouldn't be enough for socialist and anti-American idiots like Egeland who will seize any opportunity to bash Bush, the US, and capitalism.
It's so nice to see the UN sacrifice the wash-and-wax for their limo fleet for one week to help out the flood victims in any case. Warms my heart.
Posted by: Dar ||
12/28/2004 10:59 Comments ||
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Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 14:28 Comments ||
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#7
$1.1 Billion isn't it -- the U.S. annual contribution to the U.N.? So nice of the U.N. to cough up almost 0.1% of one year's worth of one country's contribution for one of the world's greatest natural disasters. Syyylllweeessster!!!!
Posted by: Tom ||
12/28/2004 15:04 Comments ||
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#8
Oooops! Got the call from Kofi, did ya?
Doesn't matter. I still think the twerp needs a good beating.
Personally I think they are just pissed because the contribution is not passing thru their sticky fingers -- conferences and 5-star lunchs in exotic locations aren't cheap ya know!!
I think we should deduct any amount we send for assistance from our contribution to the U.N. At least we have a hope that it actually gets to those who need it.....
#10
Big Furry Deal. Amazon is running a collection that is up to $585,000. Probably mostly by stingy Americans (but thanks to people of other stingy countries that also contributed).
More than 800 people were killed when their train, the "Queen of the Sea," was swept off the track by this week's raging tsunami, police said, and several hundred bodies pulled from the twisted wreckage were buried Tuesday alongside the railway line. The train was carrying 1,000 residents of Colombo to a southern beach resort when it came to a stop just before its destination as waters began to rise Sunday. Residents of nearby towns ran onto the train, trying to seek protection on its roof when the wall of water hit, police said.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 4:07:32 PM ||
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From Sir Arthur regarding the recent tsunamis in South and Southeast Asia:
Thank you for your concern about my safety in the wake of Sunday's devastating tidal wave. I am enormously relieved that my family and household have escaped the ravages of the sea that suddenly invaded most parts of coastal Sri Lanka, leaving a trail of destruction. But many others were not so fortunate. For hundreds of thousands of Sri Lankans and an unknown number of foreign tourists, the day after Christmas turned out to be a living nightmare reminiscent of The Day After Tomorrow.
Among those affected are my staff based at our diving station in Hikkaduwa and holiday bungalow in Kahawa — both beachfront properties located in areas worst hit. We still don't know the full extent of damage as both roads and phones have been damaged. Early reports indicate that we have lost most of our diving equipment and boats. Not all our staff members are accounted for — yet. This is indeed a disaster of unprecedented magnitude for Sri Lanka which lacks the resources and capacity to cope with the aftermath. We are all trying to contribute to the relief efforts. We shall keep you informed as we learn more about what happened.
Curiously enough, in my first book on Sri Lanka, I had written about another tidal wave reaching the Galle harbour (see Chapter 8 in The Reefs of Taprobane, 1957). That happened in August 1883, following the eruption of Krakatoa in roughly the same part of the Indian Ocean.
Arthur Clarke
27 December 2004
I was wondering if he was ok.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/28/2004 12:20:44 PM ||
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I read somewhere in comments on some blog just after the quake that Clarke lives on the western part of the island and wouldn't have been affected.
It's worrying that not all of his staff are accounted for. I'm glad to see the hopeful "yet," but I fear some of them may not have survived.
I think it's just impossible to really grasp the full extent of this calamity unless you're there - and maybe not even then.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 13:23 Comments ||
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#2
Is he still buggering little brown boys?
Posted by: Jack is Back ||
12/28/2004 13:31 Comments ||
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#3
Sorry to burst your bubble, Jack. Science fiction writer Arthur C Clarke has been cleared of allegations of child abuse. A Sri Lankan police chief said there was no evidence that Sir Arthur, 80, was a paedophile. The novelist, who moved to Sri Lanka in 1956, said he had never been worried by the claims, which surfaced the day before he was due to receive an honorary knighthood from Prince Charles on his tour of the island in February. The Sunday Mirror claimed Sir Arthur had paid for sex with boys.
But Sir Arthur said: "Quite frankly I have never been worried about it. I was annoyed, but not worried." The deputy inspector-general of police, MSM Nizam, said: "We are satisfied that he has not violated any Sri Lankan laws or committed any crime. "He denied the allegations and spoke about his abhorrence of child sex and paedophilia."
Police interviewed three young men who had told the Sunday Mirror they had sex with Sir Arthur when they were teenagers. Mr Nizam said all three had now withdrawn their allegations. He said: "We have now sent the reports to the Attorney General to seek his opinion on how to proceed with this case."
Posted by: Steve ||
12/28/2004 14:27 Comments ||
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#4
Jack must've confused him with Yasser...and yes, he's quit LOL
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 19:39 Comments ||
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The U-S Navy says all of its ships and other assets survived south Asia's killer tsunami with no significant damage. The closest U-S base to the affected area is on the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia. The base emerged unscathed. And now, the lede
A Navy official says three P-3 Orion aircraft have been deployed to Thailand. The aircraft are geared for survey work. A spokesman says they don't engage directly in search and rescue operations, but they are an invaluable resource for such missions. Their crews can spot people stranded in the tidal wave area and can even drop life rafts to them. Navy officials say cargo flights may be initiated later -- to bring in food, water and other supplies. Officials say the State Department is now mulling the possibility of using military transport planes to bring American tourists back home, but no decision has been made yet.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
12/28/2004 3:41:13 AM ||
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#1
As far as the UN and the world is concerned this doesn't count as help even if the operating cost runs up into the millions. Help only counts when it is in dollars and is somewhat untrackable between donor country and swiss bank account.
#2
they donât engage directly in search and rescue operations, but they are an invaluable resource for such missions. Their crews can spot people stranded in the tidal wave area and can even drop life rafts to them
#3
Heck, those Orions would have been flying anyway, right? So it doesn't even count.
As for the US nationals, yes, get them out the fastest way possible. The tsunami area is going to be Not Good for Americans when the seething gets going...
#5
Well, maybe if the UN could get a hold of some of that Oil for Food money from Kojo....
I don't know what's more unbelievable, the damage that this tsunami/quake caused, or that idiot's unbelievable gall.
But U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland suggested that the United States and other Western nations were being "stingy" with relief funds, saying there would be more available if taxes were raised.
Suppose the GPS system the rescuers will undoubtedly use is stingy. Suppose the non-governmental aid in the form of donations of the American Public is stingy or not even calculated in their bean counter numbers. Suppose the lift capability in air and sea capability redirected from military assets will be stingy. Suppose the satellite and air reccon photo support that is going to be employed from the US is stingy. Etc, etc, etc.
Maybe its time for our illustrious Congress to pass a resolution telling the UN dandies to Eat S**t and Die.
#9
Lol, WW - well put! Apparently Egeland is on his knees fellating everyone who'll have anything to do with him, at the moment. Seems Powell, early today, rather ripped (for Diplo-Speak, anyway) Egeland and, by extension, others in the UN "aid" agencies. I use scare quotes because it's not the UN's money - they get to play Santa and Savior with Other People's Money. A real boon to institutional fuckwits like Egeland who's probably never actually had a real job.
The major obstacles to creating an early-warning system that could have saved many victims of Asia's massive tsunami are not money and technology, but poverty and political and cultural division besetting the region it hit, experts and officials said Monday. Please note: MONEY IS NOT AN ISSUE.
Instead it is poverty (read: corruption) and "political and cultural division" (read: ideological intolerance) that is to blame. Let's connect the dots. Authoritarian or totalitarian governments have no interest in cooperative action, even if it is to save their own populations from disaster when it means relinquishing a single SCINTILLA of power. Sound familiar?
How about China's concealment of the largest medically caused AIDS crisis in all history? Let's not forget the Oil-for-Palaces scandal that placed immense human suffering well below any personal need for luxury and limitless wealth.
The wall of water that killed more than 23,300 people in coastal villages in Indonesia, Thailand, India, Malaysia and Sri Lanka was tracked by U.S. seismologists who said they had no way to warn local governments of the danger. Correction: These governments most certainly had a way, they just didn't want to spend the money on it. Quite like how they don't want to spend the money on sanitation infrastructure or disaster preparedness.
The tsunami was spawned by the most powerful earthquake in 40 years, which struck off the Indonesian coast an hour before the tsunami made landfall on Sunday. U.S. officials tried frantically to warn the deadly wall of water was coming, but there was no official alert system in the region. Once more, that pesky issue of having to spend money on things other than Sevruga caviar and Champagne. Just ask Imelda Marcos about it.
Six "tsunameters" along the Pacific coastline, one near Chile and 14 off the Japanese coast now feed data to the U.S. Pacific Tsunami Warning Centers in Hawaii and Alaska. Scientists wanted to place two more of the tsunami meters in the Indian Ocean, including one near Indonesia, as part of a global warning system, but the plan has not been funded, said Eddie Bernard, director of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle. [H]as not been funded" by whom?
Wait for it ...
The tsunameters each cost $250,000 and take about a month to build, Bernard said. "It has been vetted through a (United Nations commission) and they support it but there's always a delay between proposal writing and deployment of the funds." Gosh, our little darlings at the UN managed to delay implementation of this minuscule appropriation. Why for? Their World Hunger Summit menu probably cost less.
Jan Egeland, who heads the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, told a news conference that disaster preparation activities in the Indian Ocean area have focused on monsoons, which are common and can be devastating. Tsunamis typically occur in the area once a century, he said. But that didn't prevent him from describing American donations as "skimpy," the slut.
He said a warning system should be looked into. "Right after my eight course hot lunch."
"I think it would be a massive undertaking to actually have a full-fledged tsunami warning system that would really be effective in many of these places," he said. Horseshit! Cheap bouy detectors could be in place within a few months.
Hilton Root, a Milken Institute (sound familiar?) senior fellow and a former U.S. representative to the Asian Development Bank, said poverty and instability in the hardest-hit nations could be the biggest barrier to implementing the most crucial aspect of an early-warning system: moving people away from danger. "These are countries that really don't get along, are at different stages of development and don't trust each other for political reasons," Root said. "They are just beginning to bring down trade barriers so it's an area where the political tension is easily aroused and cooperation never been easy." What a great excuse for mass murder through benign malign neglect.
But the tsunami's extraordinary toll may be "a wake-up call to these people that they need to think about regional risks and start doing something about it," Root said. By contrast, the rich nations of the Pacific rim already have extensive, high-tech warning systems in place. Maybe they know something about investing.
Japan, for instance, has a network of sensors that record seismic data and feed information to a national agency able to issue evacuations warnings within minutes of any quake. And an earthquake off the California coast would have triggered instant warnings to federal and state agencies via dedicated hotlines, and to the public via emergency broadcasts, said Paul Whitmore, director of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Alaska. California also recently launched an electronic system that alerts citizens and emergency workers via e-mail and pager, said Sheryl Tankersley of the state Office of Emergency Services. "We do have a robust system here in California," Tankersley said. "We like to say it's the best in the nation, if not the world. But it's all based on neighbor helping neighbor. Cooperation is essential." One more time: Nations which have been impoverished by their corrupt governments are left defenseless against natural disaster due to inappropriate diversion of funds. These diverted funds directly result in the industrialized nations having to devote between ten and one hundred times the aid necessary to overcome natural disasters, whose effects could easily have been mitigated.
Remember, people keep criticizing my lack of patience with these countries because their mismanagement is not only draining international relief coffers but also spawning terrorism. Yet, somehow, my critics do not seem willing to address the immediate and pressing need for pressuring these same countries into some sort of functional compliance with respect to combatting the fundamental causes of terrorism, namely, corruption and the perpetuation of totalitarian systems that relegate civilian needs well below elitist perks.
Connect the dots, please.
Posted by: Zenster ||
12/28/2004 3:27:33 AM ||
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#1
I am not criticizing your analysis. I am criticizing your timing. Do you really think people carrying bodies to the morgue are going to listen to the Great White Hope telling them it was all their fault?
A more effective approach, in my opinion, would be to provide disaster relief and while providing it, get the affected peoples used to the idea that this is preventable, and gosh here are some things you can do to prevent it, and we'll help you implement them.
Most of the people in the area have never thought of holding their governement accountable. And many people in the area believe on a religious and not logistical level, that while things like earthquakes are punishments from God, what we in the west would consider simple precautions, i.e. earthquake/tsunami detections, will also call God's wrath upon them for trying to predict the future.
In some places, you don't even ask a farmer what he thinks his crop output for the year is going to be, even if he has farmed the same plot of land all his life, because to ask him to predict the future means 1)you are mocking him or 2) you are insane and not worth talking to.
So do you want to be right or do you want to be effective? If you want to be right, go ye' forth therefore and rub everyone's nose in it for all you're worth. You have the facts.
For myself, I would prefer in the face of 55 000 dead and still climbing, wounded still in the hospital, and bodies still washing ashore, to be kind and hope those acting on my behalf in the area will be effective.
If you would like to bring up the idea of linking foreign aid with transparancy and freedom ratings after the screaming stops, I will also be happy to join you in that effort as well. I have long wondered why Mexico gets so much money when they barely make the "free economy" list. Why not demand they implement measures to liberalize their economy and then help them do it. If you want to file a lawsuit against the UN as a "Friend of All the Tsunami Dead who Could have Been Saved if You Weren't such an Inept Bunch of Weasels", I'd be happy to join you in that too.
But withholding disaster/emergency relief in the face of over 55 000 dead? I am sorry to disagree so violently, as I do respect your opinion on many other matters you have written about here, but that is just not right.
#2
Do you really think people carrying bodies to the morgue are going to listen to the Great White Hope telling them it was all their fault?
The point is, to a huge extent, it's not their fault. It is the fault of misappropriating and corrupt governments.
For myself, I would prefer in the face of 55 000 dead and still climbing, wounded still in the hospital, and bodies still washing ashore, to be kind and hope those acting on my behalf in the area will be effective.
America has tried being "kind" for a long, long time now. The sand is running out for us to continue being so "kind" in the face of those who seek to slaughter our citizens wholesale. We can be a little unkind now and force some productive change upon those who are most resistant to it, or be confronted with loss of American life in some extremely unkind fighting with these same cultures when they really begin flooding the world with terrorist operatives.
If you would like to bring up the idea of linking foreign aid with transparancy and freedom ratings after the screaming stops, I will also be happy to join you in that effort as well. I have long wondered why Mexico gets so much money when they barely make the "free economy" list. Why not demand they implement measures to liberalize their economy and then help them do it. If you want to file a lawsuit against the UN as a "Friend of All the Tsunami Dead who Could have Been Saved if You Weren't such an Inept Bunch of Weasels", I'd be happy to join you in that too.
We are in total agreement. I can only suppose you may have missed where I concur that water, medicine and food should be shipped in immediately, but how infrastructure rebuild should be contingent upon, and directly linked to, improved compliance in the fight against terrorism and corruption.
Adriane, you make some superb points about the cultural disparities involved. In many high context Asian societies you never even think of openly declaring how glad you are a friend narrowly missed having a fatal accident, because that is seen as tempting fate. Yet, spending a few million to install tsunami detectors is a no-brainer. Who cares if it is regarded by the adults of more superstitious cultures as tempting fate? Considering that some 33% of the death toll consists of children who never had a chance to even become superstitious, maybe we need to place higher priority on saving those innocent lives than appeasing primitive mentalities.
At some point we also have to realistically assess the cost benefit ratio of continuing to support governments that leave their entire populations exposed to natural disasters and the gigantic expense of always having to go in and mop up after them.
America is seeing this on the Atlantic coast's "hurricane alley." Constantly funding the rebuilding of homes that will only be washed away or blown down a few seasons later is foolish. Better to relocate those property owners than help them reconstruct one more time.
So it is with these despotic governments. Either we bring them into line or face an endless parade of rescue missions to, effectively, save these people from their own corrupt leadership. We have neither the time or money to mollycoddle these noncompliant governments. I realize that many here think we actually do.
I feel that our time is much shorter and that immediate action, however unpopular others may find it, is required for America to avert some more very nasty terrorist attacks upon its own soil. Iran is a sterling example of this, as is the containment of so many other Islamist nations. If not holding these now-vulnerable disaster stricken countries' governments over a barrel comes at the cost of 1,000s more American lives lost, then the price is simply too high.
We've already lost 1,000 American lives quelling Iraq's terrorist infrastructure. How many more are acceptable in thwarting terrorism with convention military force? I'd rather halt overt support for corrupt governments and thereby ensure that they no longer breed up flock after flock of terrorists.
#3
I am sorry to disagree so violently, as I do respect your opinion on many other matters you have written about here, but that is just not right.
How many times would you be willing to have your hand snapped at by a varied collection of dogs before you begin to question the wisdom of feeding them?
#4
people thought it was fine to criticse America litterally minuetes after the world trade centres were smashed down, infact the world went wild with screeming idiots proclaiming America's intel agencies and military utterly useless for not stopping it, hell stupid people round the world mocked America for its 'failure' to not stop 9/11 and continue to do so constantly at every oppertuinity! Now we have lots of poor people with shit goverments up to their neck in water all because of mother nature, the fact they could have for-warned thier people of impending doom is irrelevent,irrelevent not beacause of the stupid clowns running these countrys who don't really give a fck about thier people and dont feel the need to even set up a warning system that would have given thier people time to escape to high ground, no thier immune from all blame because of one simple fact, they are not America, its that simple.Imagine America suffers a tidal wave ,a warning system gives people hours to escape,they do but 50 people drown,10 million survive but 50,no wait make that 5 die, now what do you think the press would do, would they comment on how millions escaped in time thanks to the goverment warning system or would the focus for weeks remain on the 5 people who died, the headlines would read 'bush murdered 5', 'America fails again', bush lied people died, etc etc. The dicks behind the news desks then start saying why such little money is given to these relif funds from America whilst forgetting thier huge funding of the fraudulent UN. I dont wanna not give aid to these countrys but unfortuantly if the world continues in its pathetic anti American mood i say tough sht no more money for you and roll the D-9 dozers into the UN hq with great haste. Double standards all the way, as always.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
12/28/2004 16:48 Comments ||
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#5
Zenster's right. The greatest contributors to the misery of third world nations are those nations' incompetent, kleptocratic governments. The record of their corruption and failure to govern properly is massive, and at the heart of every tragedy brought on by natural disaster. Failure to invest in basic seismic shock warning systems. Failure to enforce basic building code standards, usually because of kickbacks from builders to government officials. etc etc
At some point we also have to realistically assess the cost benefit ratio of continuing to support governments that leave their entire populations exposed to natural disasters and the gigantic expense of always having to go in and mop up after them. * * * we bring them into line or face an endless parade of rescue missions to, effectively, save these people from their own corrupt leadership. * * * We've already lost 1,000 American lives quelling Iraq's terrorist infrastructure. How many more are acceptable in thwarting terrorism with convention military force? I'd rather halt overt support for corrupt governments and thereby ensure that they no longer breed up flock after flock of terrorists.
Is it just me, or is this an awfully colonialist attitude? I thought we were trying to export freedom and democracy.
Like, what, youâre saying Thailand, India, and Sri Lanka are breeding grounds for âflock after flock of terroristsâ? Or, are you saying we give aid to Thailand, India, and Sri Lanka (even if corruption is a problem in those countries) and withhold it from Malaysia and Indonesia (because a lot, but not all, of the population has Muslim roots)? How about the Red Cross society of Indonesia, is that OK to give to? Or do we just annex the world and turn each country into a new state? If weâre annexing countries, shouldnât we start with Haiti? Is Haiti, with all of its poverty and corruption, a breeding ground for terrorism? Say, if we stop giving aid to needy countries, will our boys and girls stop dying in Iraq? Do our boys and girls die in Iraq because Iraq is corrupt? How, exactly, does a natural disaster relate to islamofascism and corruption?
Phef. Why donât you spout your c7*p to this poor fellow?
Charity, not REMF critiques are needed at this point.
#8
I really appreciate your support on this, lex (you too, Shep). America no longer has the luxury of pretending that it can play "nice cop" all the time and simultaneously put an end to tyranny. We did so before and our reward was 9-11.
I absolutely refuse to accept even a single repeat of 9-11. If preventing another similar atrocity on American soil requires that all we display to the world is a mailed fist, then so be it. Like Bar said, how long do you insist upon feeding dogs that keep on snapping and snarling at you before you turn the animals out or simply put them down?
#9
Cingold-no one is gloating over suffering. I bet everyone on this page feels horrible seeing photos of people who have been hurt, like the person in your link.
Neither should we be careless with donating help. It matters who gets it, how it's spent-otherwise, we are fine with others, as agents of our charity, to cause more people, like the one in this photo, to suffer. There are people there, just like people here, who with someone else's money in their hands, find it especially easy to spend on what it wasn't intended for.
#10
cingold: Here's the link, if you really want to gloat.
In the wake of 9/11 and the reactions to it around the world, I now believe that no American blood or treasure should be spent on the problems of foreign countries. If they want help from us, they can work for it. The gravy train's at an end. After 9/11, the rest of the world tried to frighten us with the specter of an angry Muslim street. I think they should be more worried about an angry American street.
#11
I used to support a kid in Indonesia, through Compassion International. Compassion International (during a routine audit) found corruption, and shut down the entire program, because they couldnât find an alternate way to help the people who needed it. That was the right thing to do, but it was sad that a lot of people suffered.
The problem here is the non sequitur.
Corruption is being confabulated with islamofascist terrorism poised to strike our own shores. Call me old-fashioned, but I think not throwing the baby out with the bathwater is just as important as calling a spade a spade. Further, Zensterâs timing is more than just a bit off. This is not the time to play âhold the world hostage,â unless you really want to promote some hard feelings.
#12
I now believe that no American blood or treasure should be spent on the problems of foreign countries
So, get legislation passed to make the US isolationistic, again. See how well that works. Oh, and while youâre at it, youâll have to get laws passed to shut down all the private quarter (read âChristianâ) charity giving, because that is how most relief aid is given to the third world. Of course, thereâs that pesky First Amendment thingy, but someone like you should be able to find a way around that . . .
#13
The simple, harsh fact is that there is no greater source of misery on this planet than third-world corruption and kleptocracy. Whether you're talking about Mexican narco-politicians like Los Hermanos Salinas, or Brazilian mega-corruption as with Collor and his successors and the majority of Brazil's legislators and judges and cops, or Russian and Ukrainian alliances between "oligarchs" and security service thugs that have stolen nearly half of each country's GDP and more importantly, robbed at least one generation of a shot at living in a normal, prosperous country, you can very easily specify the causal links from kleptocracy => economic incompetence => foregone growth and increased living and health-educational-welfare standards for many millions of citizens.
For decades we ignored the evidence that democracies are more peaceful and advance our foreign policy interests more than tyrannies do. Now it's time to put the same kind of strategic focus on promoting rule of law and good governance as we now do on democracy promotion.
#15
Oh, and just to keep things straight, how does Indonesia think about 9/11?Hereâs a link to statements by the then President of Indonesia. I believe she was one of the first to express outrage at what happened, and support of the US. Hereâs an excerpt:
PRESIDENT MEGAWATI: After I heard and witnessed and saw what happened, the tragic events in New York and Washington, I immediately issued a statement which strongly condemned these attacks, which were very inhumane. And afterwards I sent a letter to President Bush, expressing my condolences. So this is the position of my government on this issue. So it's very clear.
After, that, Indonesia stepped up efforts to wipe out islamofascism in the country. And, please remember, Megawati would be considered âsoftâ on islamofascism by comparison with the current President of Indonesia, SBY.
#16
The point is to shine a flashlight on kleptocracy and tie foreign aid to governance reforms.
Precisely why President Bush is to be commended. He, of course, is not so STUPID as to try to make that linkage immediately following a devastating natural disaster, but (clearly) his goal is to create a climate of change toward sustainable democratic governments. Even those of Muslim heritage bleed and die and hope daily for a better life. Yes, it is true that the gentrification of entitlement, without personal responsibility and true democratic voice, always leads to thuggery, but we donât have to be isolationists to avoid those kinds of problems. If we follow the policies of President Bush, there is much reason to hope millions more can be set free to pursue life, liberty and happiness. We have the sword for the warring, and our right hand of friendship and assistance for the peaceful, oppressed, or suffering.
#17
cingold: After, that, Indonesia stepped up efforts to wipe out islamofascism in the country. And, please remember, Megawati would be considered âsoftâ on islamofascism by comparison with the current President of Indonesia, SBY.
Right - by acquitting terror bombing suspects and almost releasing a few terror cell members until the State Department made it clear to them that these actions would have severely negative consequences for their ties with the US.
#18
Note also that Indonesia made a big stink about the US campaign in Afghanistan, never mind Iraq. Muslims are as adept at crocodile tears as anyone else. Someone who has had any experience with Indonesians should know that.
#19
Zhang Fei, show me any other country (apart from the US) that has captured, convicted and/or killed more islamofascist terrorists since 9/11 than Indonesia (remember the Aceh campaign?). THERE ISNâT ANY.
Do your homework and see how many convictions Indonesia got out of the Bali Bombing and the Marriot Bombing, and how many death sentences were handed out. Even you should be surprised because -- guess what -- despite the fact that we know for a fact that the 9/11 terrorists had help here in the USA to do what they did here in the USA, we canât match the Indonesia rate of conviction. Donât pretend that Indonesia can ignore the separation of the judiciary, the legislative branch and the executive branch any more than we can. Still, they are getting the job done.
So what if Indonesia made a big stink about the US campaign in Afghanistan? So did more than half of Europe, and almost half of this country, Australia and Japan. And sure, Muslims are as adept at crocodile tears as anyone else, but that doesnât mean this is the time to hold humanitarian aid hostage to some ill conceived, juvenile concept of foreign policy.
#20
cingold: And sure, Muslims are as adept at crocodile tears as anyone else, but that doesnât mean this is the time to hold humanitarian aid hostage to some ill conceived, juvenile concept of foreign policy.
Ill-conceived and juvenile? I would say that applies to the Indonesian objections to the Afghanistan campaign and attempts to get the terrorists freed. Denying aid to these fellas would be a way of showing them that there are consequences to opposing American interests. No more and no less than the Chinese have done with regard to their territorial interests. Unless you think Chinese policies are ill-conceived and juvenile, as well.
Zhang Fei, show me any other country (apart from the US) that has captured, convicted and/or killed more islamofascist terrorists since 9/11 than Indonesia (remember the Aceh campaign?). THERE ISNâT ANY.
#22
Then, thereâs always the problem with the USA government allowing aid groups to give aid and comfort to known islamofascist groups in Aceh. Doesnât the USA know how bad that looks? Donât Americans care about 9/11, and didnât they learn a lesson from 9/11? How can the USA allow those kinds of groups to operate and to undermine all the efforts of the Indonesian government to suppress the islamofascist activity in Aceh?
Why arenât there simple solutions to complex issues of foreign relations?
At this time of crisis, is not the time to withhold humanitarian aid. Doing so would be ill conceived and juvenile. Not even the âruthlessâ Indonesian government, that has waged war against the Aceh rebels, is doing that.
#23
At this time of crisis, is not the time to withhold humanitarian aid.
cingold, I do not think that anybody here is demanding that supplies intended to relieve human suffering should be held hostage. Please stop clinging to such a misguided notion. Perhaps you didn't read the part I wrote earlier:
I concur that water, medicine and food should be shipped in immediately
I happen to have big problems with rebuilding the infrastructure of countries that continue to economically rape their populations. Yes, it's all well and fine that Indonesia is fighting terrorism, however debatable their enthusiasm for the task may be. None of this changes how Indonesia remains one of the most corrupt nations on earth.
All of their work towards fighting terrorism amounts to little if ingrained cronyism or entrenched special interests are allowed to create huge disparities in wealth and quality of life. While poverty itself may not be a prime mover in creating terrorism, discrimination, disenfranchisement and preferential treatment most certainly are.
Again, here are Transparency International's indicies for the top ranking countries accompanied by selected nations within the afflicted region. Indonesia is more corrupt than the morally bankrupt Palestinian Authority. What does this say about their ability to truly overcome the roots of terrorism within their own borders?
Indonesia is the 133rd most corrupt country, less than ten places removed from the absolute worst countries, Bangladesh and Haiti respectively, in 145th place.
--------------------------
Finland 9,7 (9.5 - 9.8)
New Zealand 9,6 (9.4 - 9.6)
Denmark 9,5 (9.3 - 9.7)
USA 7.5 (6.9 - 8.0) [for reference]
Jordan 5,3 (4.6 - 5.9)
Malaysia 5,0 (4.5 - 5.6)
Thailand 3,6 (3.3 - 3.9)
Sri Lanka 3,5 (3.1 - 3.9)
Syria 3,4 (2.8 - 4.1)
Saudi Arabia 3,4 (2.7 - 4.0)
Egypt 3,2 (2.7 - 3.8)
Iran 2,9 (2.2 - 3.4)
Russia 2,8 (2.5 - 3.1)
India 2,8 (2.6 - 3.0)
Lebanon 2,7 (2.1 - 3.2)
Vietnam 2,6 (2.3 - 2.9)
Philippines 2,6 - (2.4 - 2.9)
Libya 2,5 (1.9 - 3.0)
Palestinian Authority 2,5 (2.0 - 2.7)
Yemen 2,4 (1.9 - 2.9)
Sudan 2,2 (2.0 - 2.3)
Iraq 2,1 (1.3 - 2.8)
Pakistan 2,1 - (1.6 - 2.6)
Indonesia 2,0 (1.7 - 2.2)
Myanmar 1,7 (1.5 - 2.0)
Bangladesh 1,5 (1.1 - 1.9)
--------------------------
Examine the list and you will see a distinct correlation. cingold, you claim that:
"Corruption is being confabulated with islamofascist terrorism poised to strike our own shores."
A close look at the above chart reveals just how many terrorist sponsoring nations have pretty closely grouped and rather unflattering corruption statistics. I'm not conflating terrorism and corruption, I'm claiming that there is a direct link between the two.
Iran's graft riddled construction industry erected substandard buildings in Bam. They collapsed in a moderate earthquake that might have killed less than 100 people in Europe, but ended up killing some 30,000 people. That number is nearly as many as this huge disaster has killed across the entire Southeast Asian region. What does that say?
Meanwhile, Iran diverts billions of badly needed dollars that could finance reconstruction into their nuclear weapons program. An effort that most certainly will result in massive destruction for their nation, either through preemptive strikes or nuclear war. Here is a terrorist sponsoring country using corruptly gained wealth to destabilize the entire Middle East and specifically kill American soldiers in Iraq.
Corruption and terrorism go hand in hand. If we are to fight one, we must fight the other. Rebuilding the infrastructure of parasitic governments will only serve the ends of America's enemies.
#24
None of this changes how Indonesia remains one of the most corrupt nations on earth.
Do you include in your calculus that the country has only just moved into being a true democracy since 1998, and that this Fall (2004) was the countryâs first free and democratic Presidential election? And what did the people of Indonesia do with that freedom? They elected SBY, who is much more aggressive than Megawati was toward islamofascism. Both major candidates campaigned on an anti-corruption platform, and SBY will likely implement it.
Given that they are only six year into a true democracy, donât you think you might cut them a little slack? I think theyâre headed in the right direction.
Rebuilding the infrastructure of parasitic governments will only serve the ends of America's enemies.
Do you really think rebuilding the infrastructure of parasitic governments is what the US is doing by helping out a bunch of dead and dying tsunami victims? Or, by giving aid, do we (instead) build good will and good memories? By giving aid, do people begin to question which tradition met them in their time of need and built them up? This is the time to strike while the iron is hot -- not with some self aggrandizing moralistic critique of peopleâs governments, but with true compassion that cuts through all racial and religious divides to the true human ties that bind us all to one another.
#25
Do you really think rebuilding the infrastructure of parasitic governments is what the US is doing by helping out a bunch of dead and dying tsunami victims?
I've already covered the importance of assisting the casualties of this disaster. You're beating a dead horse.
I'm talking about when these governments come to us for help in rebuilding their countries. What use is it if huge chunks of the foreign aid simply disappear into the usual black hole of graft?
You keep responding about Indonesia but fail to address the larger pattern of how corruption and Islamofascism coexist in so many of the nations that sponsor terrorism.
#26
Adriane and cingold are sane. Thanks for your comments (and Adriane--please don't apologize).
As Zenster has said many times, he hates President Bush for doing anything from his moral base, and rejects any and all of Bush's initiatives that have anything even remotely to do with faith because "homosexuality has been around longer than the Bible or Christianity." Zenster also routinely says he wants to nuke Mecca and Medina, for example, to "eliminate terrorism" without regard for greater consequences. He is politically naive and his pseudo-intellectualism is dangerously arrogant. He has the audacity to call me a Nazi and has suggested that many good Americans died to eliminate people like me--just because I questioned his deconstructionist notions. I firmly believe Zenster is on this site in order to gain personal support--a "following" to promote his private political agenda(s) and "vision" for the world. And let's not forget that Aris is his web buddy. So what's to say . . . Rantburg is slowly becoming the haunts of strange totalitarianesque birds . . .
Sending relief aid and helping to rebuild these nations and making it contingent on some vague policy or promise against sponsoring terrorism might be applicable to Saudi Arabia or Iran, but it is out of place in this instance and is a dishonorable stance for the United States to take. Posters referring to other forms of aid given over the years without question or monitoring, are basing their arguments on a different topic than the tsunami disaster. It's typical of short-sighted and opportunistic Zenster, though--cuz he wants to run the world his way and his way only.
#27
You . . . fail to address the larger pattern of how corruption and Islamofascism coexist in so many of the nations that sponsor terrorism.
Zenster, youâve self-professed yourself to be a research scientist. Donât you know that correlations cannot imply causation? That is why your conflations are true delusional confabulations. I mean, if you want to get the proper data set and run some hierarchal linear models, maybe youâll persuade me--but what youâre showing me isnât cutting it. Letâs try out this hypothesis: Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and islamofascism is all about absolute power, and so leads to corruption. From this it does not follow that India, Sri Lanka and Thailand are about to launch jihadi islamofascists against our shores because of the graft evident in those countries. Nor should the same be feared of Indonesia, that only six years ago threw off the yoke of bondage that promoted the corruption you (rightly) revile. But, hating corruption doesnât give us license to hold aid hostage--now, or ever.
A BRITISH survivor was hit by the killer tsunami while diving 50ft below water. The force of the monster wave threw Amy Harding and fellow scuba divers halfway up a hillside on the Thai island of Ko Phi Phi. Amy, 24, raised the alarm with her family in the UK by sending them TEXT messages on her mobile phone. But for more than a day she was frantic with worry about boyfriend Evya, who had disappeared. Yesterday she was finally rescued from the hillside — and discovered that Israeli Evya was safe and well.
Diving instructor Amy, from Neston on the Wirral, Cheshire, was taking a group on a regular dive when they were churned up in the massive current and washed up the hillside. They managed to scramble on to a hotel roof where they waited for help, surrounded by water. Brother Mike, 27, received her first text, sent at 2.10pm local time on Sunday. The trainee accountant was spending Christmas at home with their parents Frank, 78, and Elisabeth, 62. The text read: "Island hit by tidal wave. Am OK. Was diving. Caught in major current, part of island destroyed. Not seen Evya. Sat on a hotel roof with ocean either side. Am OK though. x" Mike said: "I phoned her back straight away. She was very shaken." In a second message sent at 5.17pm local time Amy said: "Think we'll stay up here overnight and get bitten to death instead. So worried about Evya. At least I'm safe here. Love you all." In a third message, at 10.50pm, Amy said: "I'm so worried, so scared. Here till daylight and then risk going down. I'm so worried about Evya."
Yesterday Amy was rescued by Thai emergency teams and taken to a hotel. Mike said: "She was crying and desperately searching for Evya. Then she spotted him helping survivors — she was absolutely ecstatic." Mum Elisabeth said: "Amy just told me she was safe, well and very tired. I burst into tears."
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: .com ||
12/28/2004 2:04:07 AM ||
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That was one hell of a ride.
raised the alarm with her family in the UK by sending them TEXT messages on her mobile phone
Our world, it is a-changin'. Fast.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 13:34 Comments ||
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Firsthand account... Note: There are 5 or 6 decent beaches on Phuket island - Patong is the largest / most commercial.
Thousands of people have been e-mailing the BBC News website about horrific experiences as sea surges hit their homes and holiday retreats.
Troy Husum, a 28-year-old Canadian, was on holiday in Phuket, Thailand. He spoke of the devastation as the waves hit the town of Patong and how survivors are coping.
"I felt the quake first at about 0915. I went out on my balcony in the hotel where I was staying - it was a beautifully calm day - and talked to others on their balconies. The quake felt very slight so we thought little of it.
About 45 minutes later, I noticed that water had receded from Patong Bay. We'd never seen it before and we could hear people on the beach talking about it. You could even see fish flopping around on the beach, which was unusual. I noticed small kids and tourists walking to where the water had receded, curious as to why the water had gone.
Then I saw it - I noticed people craning their necks and looking out on the horizon. You could see a wall of water about three or four stories high.
I felt like I was watching a movie, it was completely surreal. It wasn't moving very quickly, it took between four and five minutes until I saw it hit and in that time slowly people started to realise what was happening.
People were saying 'Oh God, what is that?' I thought I was dreaming. After a few seconds the wave hit and smashed against the beach. It was incredible, it actually bent the trees, washed everything away - at least 1,000 beach umbrellas were swept along as all the water surged through. There is a line of cars where people park by the beach and hundreds of bikes, I saw them all picked up like toys and moved along.
Most disturbing was I saw people literally disappear when the water hit. I saw a lot running, but there were people snoozing on the beach, I saw small children hit. People were literally swept away. A lot of injuries occurred from people being hit by debris from cars, from bikes.
Running for safety
I thought I should get some pictures because I was staying on the fourth floor of my hotel, but other people on the balconies said we had to get on the roof.
I grabbed my equipment and ran outside into the hall. People were screaming "Go! Go!" I ran up the stairs and saw the water coming. It flowed up to the third floor, you could see it in the stairwell, some people were completely wet.
We watched the chaos from the roof. The water had already started to recede as we got there. The hardest part for survivors was actually when water receded - the undercurrent sucked people back into the ocean.
Bodies
The most frightening part was not the wave - it was the panic that ensued. There were car accidents, people were trying to escape as everyone was positive another wave was coming. People - mainly local Thais - went up the roads to the mountain and slept up there for safety.
Within an hour I went back to the beach. I saw bodies. The rescue crews were panicking and there was not much control. Bodies were pulled from the debris - most had clearly drowned. I also saw a number of fractures - one tourist had a very badly broken arm. You could constantly hear helicopters - they flew up to about one kilometre out to sea to try to rescue people.
Last night most hotels allowed tourists to sleep for free in their lobbies or by the pool and there was still a lot of fear and misinformation about other waves.
Aftermath
This morning the cleanup started. All the foreigners are in disbelief, there are two or three feet of sand in all these devastated restaurants. There are piles and piles of rubble deep inland - it looks like a bomb has gone off.
Some bars I went to the night before on the beach are completely gone,. All of the palm trees were flatted or removed. How is water capable of doing that?
They are carting out hundreds of cars and bikes and the streets are still covered with sand. They really should have cordoned off the streets. There has been a little looting, some last night and today. I saw guys with televisions and computers.
There are people staggering around with injuries, I saw a girl with bandage on her head. Today there have also been sirens which have now died down. They are still pulling people out of the debris. One was a small Thai girl - she must have been there all night but she was still alive.
Posted by: .com ||
12/28/2004 1:45:25 AM ||
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Article: Some bars I went to the night before on the beach are completely gone,. All of the palm trees were flatted or removed. How is water capable of doing that?
Mother Nature is a mother - f*****. We live in relative comfort in spite of the capriciousness and danger from the natural environment. Germs, natural disasters, predators, extreme temperatures, lack of water - all were conquered by man. Note that most of the casualties were in the areas that were closest to nature, and thus furthest away from medical facilities, roads, et al. Don't let the environmentalists fool you - Mother Nature is a bloodthirsty bitch.
#2
How is water capable of doing that?
Simple, it has a lot of mass. Rule of thumb is that one gallon of water is about ten pounds. Have a friend throw a gallon jug of water at you as hard as he can. Hurt's, don't it? Now drop a 55 gallon drum of water off a roof onto your car, bet that 550 pounds flattens it.
See the same thing here in Texas everytime it rains, some blockhead tries to drive across a low water crossing and get's swept away. They say, "I thought I could make it, it was only a foot deep!" Yeah, but it was moving at twenty miles an hour. Lot of force there, proven every hurricane season. Water is the biggest killer.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/28/2004 9:58 Comments ||
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Iranian authorities are trying to determine whether a young woman sentenced to hang had a mental age of only eight - an inquiry which could save her from the noose, an official said on Sunday.
I doubt if anything comes of it. You're not seriously Islamic if you don't hang the retarded...
Nineteen-year-old "Leila M", from the central city of Arak, was sentenced to death for fornication, but human rights groups argued she had the mind of a young child and had been forced into prostitution at the age of eight. Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi said certain European countries had hijacked her case to hurl propaganda against the Islamic Republic. "The issue of her being mentally-impaired has been referred to respective bodies for investigation," he told news conference. "A death sentence is not important, as long as it is not carried out."
Maybe not to you. I'll bet it'd be important to her, if she had a functioning mind...
Pre-marital and extra-marital sex is banned in Iran, the former carrying a sentence of 100 lashes. But if the crime is repeated it can lead to a death sentence. Hanging is the most usual death penalty in Iran, but some adulterers have been stoned.
"It's their culture. We have no right to an opinion."
"Oh, yeah? Then why do they have a right to bitch about Bay Watch?"
Tehran is under pressure from international groups to end stoning. Iranian media last week quoted judiciary officials saying the stoning of Hajieh Esmailvand for adultery in the northern city of Jolfa had been suspended, pending appeal. The United Nations, in a resolution this month, condemned Iran's record on public executions, floggings, arbitrary sentences, torture and discrimination against women. Atefeh Rajabi, believed by lawyers and diplomats who saw her birth certificate to have been only 16, was hanged in August in the Caspian Sea port of Neka for sex before marriage. Iranian officials insisted she was in her early 20s.
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 00:00:00 ||
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A judge refused to delay a trial Tuesday when an attorney objected to his wearing a judicial robe with the Ten Commandments embroidered on the front in gold.
Circuit Judge Ashley McKathan showed up Monday at his Covington County courtroom in southern Alabama wearing the robe. Attorneys who try cases at the courthouse said they had not seen him wearing it before. The commandments were described as being big enough to read by anyone near the judge.
Attorney Riley Powell, defending a client charged with DUI, filed a motion objecting to the robe and asking that the case be continued. He said McKathan denied both motions.
"I feel this creates a distraction that affects my client," Powell said.
McKathan told The Associated Press that he believes the Ten Commandments represent the truth "and you can't divorce the law from the truth. ⊠The Ten Commandments can help a judge know the difference between right and wrong."
He said he doesn't believe the commandments on his robe would have an adverse effect on jurors.
"I had a choice of several sizes of letters. I purposely chose a size that would not be in anybody's face," he said.
The case raised comparisons to former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, who was removed from office in 2003 for refusing to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building in Montgomery.
Moore said Tuesday he supports McKathan's decision to wear the Ten Commandments robe.
"I applaud Judge McKathan. It is time for our judiciary to recognize the moral basis of our law," Moore said.
Powell said if he loses his case, he expects the judge's wearing of the Ten Commandments robe to be part of an appeal.
From Secularislam.org which should be one of your url favorites - if for no other reason than it is organized by Ibn Warraq. Sex and the Madrasa By Irfan Khawaja [a adjunct professor and active in Islamic apostate (murtad) circles]
They say that "sex sells," but I guess there's an exception to every rule, and evidently child rape in Pakistani madrasas is one of the exceptions... Despite at least 500 complaints of child sex abuse at Pakistani Muslim schools this year there has yet to be one successful prosecution.... The charges also give some perspective to Islamic fundamentalists' tedious habit of sermonizing at us about the supposed sexual dysfunctionality of "the West" and the superior moral virtue of "the Islamic East."
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
12/28/2004 12:48 Comments ||
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#2
I think they misunderstand that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. They just figure if he's innocent, why have a trial? After all, he's muslim, so of course he's innocent.
#4
Exposing the skin of your chin, neck, clavicle, leg, knee, ankle, arm, elbow, wrist, ear, forehead, nose, hands, or feet-just about any part belonging to a woman-makes you blasphemous and whorish. No wonder Pakistani madrassas are having such a hard time defining, recognizing or prosecuting sex abuse. The mere possession and airing of the non-sexual parts you were born with makes you a whore and therefore unfit to make an accusation. It's your fault!
#5
Would you like to know why there is such a stunning lack of prosecution for these sex crimes? Merely examine the government that is countenancing them.
Pakistan is rated as worse than the Palestinian Authority, in terms of corruption.
Maybe that gives you an idea of how bad things are there. What follows are ratings by Transparency International with respect to national corruption indicators. Note that Iran and Iraq both make a better showing than Pakistan, which is bracketed by Kenya and Angola. (The scale is 1-10, 10 = Best)
China 3,4
Iran 2,9
Palestinian Authority 2,5
Iraq 2,1
Kenya 2,1
Pakistan 2,1
Angola 2,0
Remember, the same corrupt government that can be bought off over sex crimes can just as easily be bought off by terrorists.
#6
One can't argue with what you say, Zenster. Doesn't make it any less true that some Muslim societies have very unhealthy and perverse notions about the human body.
#7
Even in this country there are still many who don't report rape because they are ashamed that it happened to them, or it isn't prosecuted because the girl was deemed to have said yes before she said no. (The Kobe incident is a perfect example -- it should never have been prosecuted even though the man is a cad.) It isn't surprising that Pakistani society is much too hung up on the whole subject of sex that they can't air such things in a public forum such as the courts. I imagine that, as many Rantburg fathers would, the situation is generally handled privately and permanently.
#8
Doesn't make it any less true that some Muslim societies have very unhealthy and perverse notions about the human body.
I agree completely, Jules. Islam's hypertrophied sense of womankind's responsibility for original sin (and almost every other one thereafter) is simply disgusting and flat-out childish.
ZIMBABWE'S first female vice-president, Joyce Mujuru, has taken over as acting head of state during President Robert Mugabe's year-end vacation. Officials say Mr. Mugabe left Harare late Monday to travel to Malaysia, and is expected to return early next month.
Pity he missed the earthquake.
The state-run Herald newspaper says Vice President Mujuru will serve in his absence, becoming the first woman to hold the nation's highest office.
Bob must trust her a lot, Africa has a long tradition of changing governments while the president is out of the country.
What were those flight numbers again?
Ms. Mujuru was approved as one of Zimbabwe's two vice presidents during a ruling party conference earlier this month. She had served as water minister and fought in the country's guerrilla war for independence in the 1970s. In an interview with South African television on Monday, Ms. Mujuru said she may seek Zimbabwe's presidency in 2008 elections, when Mr. Mugabe is due to retire.
If not sooner, Bob could come down with something at any time.
Meanwhile President Mugabe's spin doctor Jonathan Moyo who was recently dropped from the ruling Zanu PF's central committee and politburo has jetted off to Kenya on a holiday with his family, New Zimbabwe.com was told. Moyo was booked into a safari lodge -- and had to deal with fears about his own security amid claims there was a plot to assassinate him while in Kenya. Ironically, media reports have said Moyo is a wanted man in Kenya where he is alleged to have defrauded the American Ford Foundation.
Posted by: Steve ||
12/28/2004 11:50:53 AM ||
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Marxist Rebels jet off on holiday.
The revolution is well arrived indeed.
Up against the wall farmer thief!
"In my 34 years of service, I have never seen an IAF base commander receive his chief dressed in a vest, pyjamas and chappal. He (Bandopadhyay) has nothing left," an emotionally charged Air Chief Marshal S Krishnaswamy said about his visit to Air Force Station Carnic. Completely ravaged concrete buildings, uprooted trees, cracks on the runway, a tilted Air Traffic Control tower and an open gate to nowhere. This is what remains of the strategic IAF air base that bore the brunt of Sunday's tsunamis, which ploughed through it, tearing apart whatever came in its way and washing away whatever was left behind. The toll at this base, which was hit by the 'Biblical' wall of water, was 27 confirmed dead and over 80 IAF personnel and their family members missing, with officials saying there was almost no possibility of their survival now. Also:
Sunday's tsunami waves have wrecked the Indian Air Force's plans to turn the Car Nicobar island into a major fighter base. In view of the strategic location of this island, the air force had planned to expand the small base into a major fighter hub by placing the frontline SU-30 MKI planes here. The Car Nicobar island straddles the access to the Malacca Strait waterways, through which 75 per cent of the world's crude oil passes. The island was one of the worst hit by tsunami in Andaman and Nicobar. The IAF had planned to place two SU-30 multi-role aircraft on the island from January 5. The deployment may be delayed now.
I suppose they are fortunate the aircraft and support personnel had not been deployed there yet.
Posted by: Seafarious ||
12/28/2004 11:44:15 AM ||
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You can view a map of the Nicobar Islands; they are indeed quite strategic.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/28/2004 13:53 Comments ||
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If I were Indonesia or Burm or Thailand, I would be really concerned about military bases that close to me by a nation pretty far away from the straits. I mean, would we be looking at pirates or privateers (as in jolly old England's days)?
#3
Plenty of pyrates on the high and low seas these days. Think I'd rather see the IAF watching the Straits than hard boyz in black rubber Zodiacs with lots of unregistered explosives...
Farmers in Zimbabwe have ploughed and planted less than a quarter of the targeted agricultural land, raising fears of food shortages next year, Agriculture Minister Joseph Made has announced. Quoting Made, state radio Sunday said that "due to the shortage of tillage equipment, farmers have planted crops on 977,694 hectares (2.4 million acres) this season, compared to the anticipated four million hectares". The minister added that "no one can assess the impact of what the 977,694 hectares planted so far -- instead of the targetted four million hectares -- will have on the output of maize (staple grain) as it is in the middle of the agricultural season." A senior official in the agriculture ministry, Shadreck Mlambo, last week warned that "time is running out".
While let's see, 1 million out of 4 million is about, oh (carry the seven, plus the square root of 48, minus two toes ...) 25% of the land is planted. Therefore I surmise, using my keen powers of observation and foruth grade math, that they'll have at most 25% of the maize. At most because there are plenty of ways for them to reduce the yield between now and harvest-time. That wasn't so hard, was it?
Made told ZIANA state news agency at the weekend that the country needed at least 50,000 tractors to meet its agricultural requirements. A team of engineers and officials left on Christmas Day for Iran which has offered to help Zimbabwe set up a tractor manufacturing plant. Fewer than half of the 733 tractors in the country are currently operational due to shortages of spares. Made urged farmers to use animal-drawn ploughs as tractors are in short supply and said farmers should not adhere to the traditional strict planting days as the rainfall season has "slightly changed".
Posted by: Seafarious ||
12/28/2004 11:30:39 AM ||
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can't afford to fix the tractors you have, so you sign a deal with the Mullahs to build a tractor-manufacturing-plant?
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 11:51 Comments ||
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#2
Planting? I thought whitey was supposed to do that?
Posted by: Farming B. Hard ||
12/28/2004 11:58 Comments ||
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#4
This would be laughable if it weren't so sad. How did all that land get planted before your thefts "reforms" Bob? It's amazing what 733 tractors can do in the hands of farmers who know how to use them efficiently.
#6
Zimbabwe indeed. I got married in Harare when it was still called Salisbury and went through Great Zimbawe ruins on my honeymoon. A predestined name.
#7
at least Bob and all his cronies can sit smugly on their ill-gotten land and starve
Wouldn't that be nice? Unfortunately, the US State Dept will charge over on white horses to Bob's palace the minute he announces he has lost a pound ( on Dr. Atkins Diet) begging him to take our tax dollars ( pretty please) to buy ... more... tractors from Iran?
#8
Actually JB, the US and UK are in the forefront of trying to make Bob behave. While we haven't sent in the 101st Airborne, we're at least using diplomatic and economic muscle to go at him. A damned sight more than anyone else is doing, that's for sure.
Posted by: Steve White ||
12/28/2004 13:59 Comments ||
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#10
While it's true that the US has acted politically to show displeasure with Bob, we still trucked out 13.9 Million in USAID last year to Zimbabwe.
Table 2, page7
Also, the United States provides aid to Africa indirectly through international financial
institutions (IFIs) and United Nations agencies.IDA disbursements to Africa totaled $2.6 billion in 2002, or about 39% of the total. Since the United States provided $792.4 million to IDA in FY2002,it could be calculated that about 39% this amount, or approximately $309 million, went indirectly to Africa through IDA. Also the African Development Fund (AfDF) has been another major channel for indirect U.S. aid to Africa. In the mid-1990s, the United States and other donors became concerned over AfDB lending practices and the effectiveness of Bank management,but these concerns have been largely resolved. Consequently, the United States is participating in the replenishment programs of both the Bank and the Fund.
See table 4 p.11
p.13 Skeptics of USAIDâs programs...note that two leading recipients, Uganda and Ethiopia, have recently been involved in armed conflicts, as have
some lesser recipients, including Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Eritrea, and Angola.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/24678.pdf
But Bob is a fox. He's grown weary of having to bribe and threaten NGO workers for his share of the foreign aid pie. So Bob introduced new legislation in December to make sure foreign aid $ goes through his paws.
http://www.voanews.com/english/2004-12-01-voa41.cfm
"Zimbabwe Children Left Hungry After Foreign Food Aid Personnel Forced to Leave" 12/01/04 President Robert Mugabe told donor nations earlier this year that they should stop funding food imports as Zimbabwe has grown enough to support itself. Many foreign humanitarian organizations say they applied in good time for renewal of their staffs' work permits. They say they do not know why so many have been delayed to the point that the workers will shortly find themselves illegally in Zimbabwe. A new law to ban foreign funded non-governmental organizations involved in human rights and governance is expected to win final approval by parliament on December 9.
#17
You decide:New Math or "Hey it sounds like a good excuse"?
50% tractors broken,75% less land planted.
Seriously,what a f***up. The country has less than 800 tractors,and the government says they need 50,000. If every tractor was working they expected them to plow over 540,000 acres each?
Must be nice to have the power to change the Earth's rotation. Otherwise saying the rain season has "slighty changed" is a desperate attempt to throw seeds at the ground and hope they actually bear usable crops.
Posted by: Stephen ||
12/28/2004 22:32 Comments ||
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Using sophisticated mathematical models, a group of four economists has proven that a country's legal history greatly affects its economy. At least they think they've proven it. How their sweeping theory has roiled the legal academy.
More..........
Posted by: tipper ||
12/28/2004 10:51:55 AM ||
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"Lawyers don't do empirical work," said Shleifer. "They just argue with each other."
Lol!
In many ways, some subtle and some not, this article illuminates the much larger debates of capitalism, how rights are delineated, and just what fucking good are economists, heh. Somewhere down deep, I heard the faint ring of truth in some of their assertions. How deep? Well, I only took 3 Eco classes, lol! So my very shallow vertical knowledge had to rely upon my common sense.
In the end, no matter how LLSV fare in this model and their conclusions, indeed the questions of checks and balances, private property rights, and whether those rights are defined in terms of government-granted rights to individuals or people-granted rights to government (A HUGE difference that some people just can't seem to grasp - apparently for reasons of ego as nothing else fully explains it.) frame the equations of success or failure, corruption or fairness, freedom or subservience, and stability or chaos. Just my opinion, of course, for which I feel there is a preponderance of evidence.
Read this and see if YOU understand it.
The junior Shankracharya of Kanchi, Vijyendra Saraswati today came out in the open on the arrest of his senior in a murder case and said that Jayendra Saraswati "would not have done this". He was refering to the Kanchi Seer's involvement in the murder of Sankararaman. "I told them that he would not have done this," said the junior pontiff during his first interaction with the media persons since the arrest of his senior on November 11 in the case.
"I know these things. I'm a seer, y'know? I have this crystal ball..."
The junior pontiff was addressing the media in the mutt premises on his return from the special police headquarters, where he was questioned for three hours today. He also told the police that the senior seer had advised him not to visit him at Vellore prison. "They asked me about my plans to meet the Acharya at the prison. I told them that I had informed him (Jayendra Saraswati) about my plans to call on him and that I was asked not to come now. I will go (to meet him) when he permits me," he said. According to the Mutt advocates accompanying the junior seer, the police asked him general questions.
It only doesn't seem to make sense because you haven't been following the story with bated breath. Here's the background, complete with a mysterious veiled lady in a lovenest, blackmail (by the mutt manager), and a hidden stash of yellow gold.
Faced with the horrendous devastation of the Indian Ocean catastrophe, it's natural to wonder if there isn't some way not just to improve warning systems, but to actually prevent such giant earthquakes in the first place. After all, in the winter officials in many mountainous areas prevent big avalanches by triggering smaller ones with explosives, even with military cannon. Threats from forest fires are reduced in some wooded regions by permitting —- or even deliberately setting -— small "controlled burns" to prevent the accumulation of dead brush that would eventually feed a conflagration.
An earthquake is the ultimate result of slow, steady accumulation of tension in rock faces that gradually try to slip past each other, pulled by motions deep inside the Earth. The shear force builds higher and higher and the rocks resist as much as they can. Suddenly, they slip past each other, releasing the energy in seismic bursts. On land, these shocks are felt as earthquakes; under the ocean, such seaquakes lead to tsunami waves that can cross oceans in hours and then build up in the shallows of a land mass into giant waves.
It turns out that human engineering has already accidentally triggered earthquakes, providing some initial concepts of how a deliberate strategy of tension relief might be implemented. But geologists warn that replacing one big earthquake with a swarm of smaller ones might expose people to much higher total risks -- and that's assuming that such a proposal could surmount the legal and environmental hurdles likely to be put in its way.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Gleaper Thomoling7223 ||
12/28/2004 8:18:00 AM ||
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It's not nice (or smart) to screw with Mother Nature.
She can be a bitch.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
12/28/2004 11:23 Comments ||
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#2
set off a small quake to avoid a large one, and await the army of lawyers with claims...
no good deed goes unpunished
Posted by: Frank G ||
12/28/2004 11:32 Comments ||
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#3
Nor does any imaginable activity escape the calculus of potential grant money.
Posted by: Professor I. Will-Fixit, PHD ||
12/28/2004 11:53 Comments ||
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#5
I don't think the science is currently anywhere near capable of handling this. But basic research always yields useful knowledge, whether in the end its directly applicable to the original question or not. I say spend some grant money, and see what can be learned about planetary core dynamics... just do the experiments elsewhere than Earth. That way we avoid not only the unxpected complications and the legal fallout, but don't accidently end all life as well.
Posted by: trailng daughter of the trailing wife ||
12/28/2004 19:09 Comments ||
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#6
Quick answer is NO! The only manipulation to nature I have ever heard of, is from Jesus Christ see(Mark 4:39) or the LORD himself, see(Ex 19:18; Ps 68:8)!
Traditionally, clashes over academic freedom have pitted politicians or administrators against instructors who wanted to express their opinions and teach as they saw fit. But increasingly, it is students who are invoking academic freedom, claiming biased professors are violating their right to a classroom free from indoctrination. For example, at the University of North Carolina, three incoming freshmen sued over a reading assignment they said offended their Christian beliefs. In Colorado and Indiana, a national conservative group publicized student allegations of left-wing bias by professors. Faculty received hate mail and were pictured in mock "wanted" posters; at least one college said teacher received a death threat. And at Columbia University in New York, a documentary film alleging that teachers intimidate students who support Israel drew the attention of administrators.
That's the core of the problem. The teachers can (and do) punish the kids who don't toe the party line...
The three episodes differ in important ways, but all touch on an issue of growing prominence on college campuses. In many ways, the trend echoes past campus conflicts — but turns them around. Once, it was liberal campus activists who cited the importance of "diversity" in pressing their agendas for curriculum change. Now, conservatives have adopted much of the same language in calling for a greater openness to their viewpoints. Similarly, academic freedom guidelines have traditionally been cited to protect left-leaning students from punishment for disagreeing with teachers about such issues as American neutrality before World War II and U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Now, conservative students who support the liberation of Iraq are invoking those same guidelines.
It all depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it?
To many professors, there's a new and deeply troubling aspect to this latest chapter in the debate over academic freedom: students trying to dictate what they don't want to be taught. "Even the most contentious or disaffected of students in the '60s or early '70s never really pressed this kind of issue," said Robert O'Neil, former president of the University of Virginia and now director of the Thomas Jefferson Center for the Protection of Free Expression.
I seem to remember great blocs of curriculum being ripped out and thrown away in the name of "relevance." I believe that occurred at the vocal insistence of students dictating what they wanted to be taught. Through the fog of accumulated time I can remember research programs being tossed, speakers being hooted off the podium, teach-ins, sit-ins, "love-ins" and "heppenings," all at the instance of students setting the agenda that drove the curriculum.
Posted by: trailing wife ||
12/28/2004 3:44:33 AM ||
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Switch out the political definition of left and right with race identities of white and black, and then use the standards employed by the liberals in the 1960's to 90's to tag racism to an institution.
One definition of an elite - one standard for members of the inner party and a different standard for members of the outer party.
#2
Now a junior, he objected when all incoming students were assigned to read a book about the Quran before they got to campus.
I wrote about this case here and here. For several years, UNC has required all incoming freshman to read a book, write a short paper on it, and take part in a discussion. This is supposed to introduce you to "critical thinking". In 2002, you could get out of reading Approaching the Quran, if you thought it was offensive to your faith, by writing a one-page paper explaining your decision.
These are the Summer Reading Program books so far:
1999: There Are No Children Here
2000: Confederates in the Attic
2001: The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down
2002: Approaching the Quran
2003: Nickel and Dimed
2004: Absolutely American
(Here's the SRP page, with links to previous years.) I would characterize most of these books as "Let us all now flagellate ourselves for being Americans".
What that last book means, I'm not sure. Judging by its Amazon reviews, I suggest it means "Wait! Wait! We're not anti-American after all!"
#2
Up to Sherrif Fred, heh. He's got one of Kim Jong Il from the movie that's pretty tasty... I send him all sorts of trash... some gets in, most doesn't lol!
I like these, for example, which prolly explains everything, heh...
I was unable to come up with a cite for this, but I did find several pages like this mentioning a Drudge article which quoted an anonymous "senior Bush advisor" as calling the movie "not funny" and "unconscionable" (the latter being the strongest language reported).
Until someone finds a cite, I'm just going to assume that the British press is, once again, just making shit up.
ISLAMABAD: President Pervez Musharraf and first lady Sehba Musharraf celebrated their 36th wedding anniversary on Monday. A simple ceremony was held at Army House Rawalpindi in which President Musharraf's mother and other family members and close family friends participated. Close friends and relatives of the Musharrafs sent greeting cards to the couple and congratulated them.
KARACHI: Fourteen men died in the city on Sunday and Monday after they consumed poisonous liquor. Six men died in Chakiwara, Lyari. Their names and other details could not be ascertained as relations of the dead men took away their bodies from private and government hospitals without post-mortem, to save their families' reputation. Most of the deaths took place in Kharadar. In another incident in Kharadar, poisonous liquor killed Noor, Umar and Ayub in Baldia Town on Sunday. The relatives did not allow their autopsy and buried them at the earliest for fear of social stigma.
"Didn't need no autopsies! Clem just stuck a match and they cremated themselves!"
Posted by: Fred ||
12/28/2004 00:00:00 ||
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Um, AutoBartender...you may want to 86 that last delivery from Lyari Liquors. The Kharadar inspector just called and left a message that there's been some, er...irregularities in the quality control monitoring. He said to make sure you used the long-handled tongs and safety googles...maybe even a lead apron.
#3
We need to sponsor some educational programs for these moonshiners so they don't accidentally distill methanol (wood alcohol) instead of ethanol (drinking alcohol). The way I figure it, anyone who drinks isn't a good candidate for jihad.
Posted by: mojo ||
12/28/2004 12:04:22 AM ||
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Simulate all you want, But when North Korea, China, or Iran detonate above or below ground for THEIR yield results; the bets are off! We'll ee just how fast the classroom doors are opened!!
#3
Let's all hope these guys can divert a little account time for the characterization of singularities, like the one formed during big bang. Nuclear weapons simulations involve the exact same type of high-energy particle physics necessary in modeling what happens with condensed matter as you reverse time's arrow to obtain the electroweak force and other forms of increased symmetry during intensely confined events.
Until our politicians have the brains to support fundamental physics instruments like the Superconducting Super Collider, computational analysis will play a significant part in expanding our understanding of the universe and its formation.
#4
I'd be just as happy if superconducting supercolliders were built on the far side of the moon. But in so many ways I must shamefully admit to being a bit of a coward... which is why I want the war on Islamofascism over sooner rather than later. On the other hand, the way the engineers have developed scientific discoveries in the area of computers, anything currently cutting edge will be available for home computer use within the decade -- to make the games ever more cool.
P.S. Thanks to everyone who welcomed my daughter last night. You made her year! And Frank, I do know you were teasing; we have our little disagreements, but you are one of the good guys. As Mr. Wife is fond of reminding me, I'll know he no longer loves me when he no longer teases. So there!
#5
I'd be just as happy if superconducting supercolliders were built on the far side of the moon.
I agree completely. Beam-line pumpdown times would be nearly instantaneous, detector noise reduced dramatically and nearly unlimited electrical energy readily available. Most of all, with a firmly established lunar colony, humanity would no longer have all its precious eggs in one very fragile blue-green basket.
... which is why I want the war on Islamofascism over sooner rather than later.
Me too. That way we can focus on truly important issues like building moon bases plus fighting illiteracy, AIDS, poverty, violence against women and hunger.
#6
I think the energies required to simulate singularity physics are well beyond what we have at the moment Zenster, so simulation of those type of events would be necessary even if the SSC had been built.
What does concern me a little is this emphasis on simulation - there really is no substitute for an experiment, so I would very much like the US to back up the simulation results with a real detonation.
I totally agree about a Moon base, but would go further and say that a presence on Mars is also necessary. Although I would say that colonies in space is a far better idea (once you've hauled your ass out of a deep gravity well, why on earth drop yourself into another one) - the resources available from mining a single small asteroid would make the London metals exchange weep!. A great resource for this is The High Frontier by Gerard K O'Neill, who was a proponent of Solar Power Satellites as well.
As for solving poverty et al - the best (only?) way to do that is to have more capitalism around the world, as socialism certainly doesn't work, neither does giving countries aid. As for violence against women - well, I think we all know what would reduce that by 99% don't we...
TW, what thread did your daughter turn up on?
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
12/28/2004 5:54 Comments ||
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#7
Simulations are based on known physics, whereas singularities are points where known physics does not apply. The current question is what happens at the Planck scale and is there even a singularity at all. The answer requires a new theoretical physics called quantum gravity for which there are several candidates, like string theory.
#8
Quite so HV, I should have been a lot more careful about specifying singularities in the simulation domain.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
12/28/2004 16:12 Comments ||
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#9
I worry that the next generation of computers won't stop at simulating an nuclear explosion, they might enjoy the McCoy. That's an Americanism you know, originally from the hills of the North American Piedmont.
Posted by: Im Safe ona Sri Lanka ||
12/28/2004 17:10 Comments ||
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#10
I agree fully that real-life testing will never be replaced by simulations. However, considering that the Boeing 777 was never physically modeled until it was built at full scale speaks rather well for our simulation capabilities.
I totally agree about a Moon base, but would go further and say that a presence on Mars is also necessary.
Tony, please read the "Red Mars," "Green Mars" and "Blue Mars" series by Kim Stanley Robinson. It is simply an outstanding work which has won a double Hugo Award. I'm almost through the third book, and his detailing of human brain function is stupendous.
HV, running time's arrow backward towards T=0 is still very important work even if it all derails at the point of singularity. The above books also discuss string theory, Plank length and the universe's fundamental graininess, including information which may have survived big bang. Altogether, a very satisfying read.
A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev said on Monday he did not expect the "break-up" of Ukraine after the weekend election victory for opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko. "Even though some of his followers have extremist views, Yushchenko will show wisdom and not allow a break-up," he told the Interfax news agency.
The United Nations said on Monday it would provide one million dollars in immediate assistance for the victims of a powerful quake and tidal waves on Indonesia's Sumatra island and more aid would be made available. Mohamed Saleheen, the acting chief of the UN's mission to Indonesia, said the organisation would work with government teams to coordinate relief aid and a UN disaster response team would arrive as soon as it had permission. He said he held a meeting Monday with 60 representatives from donor countries and international aid groups to discuss assistance. "Donors are wanting to know what quantifiable needs are, what are mechanisms to deliver this (assistance)," he told AFP. Michael Elmquist of the UN's Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Jakarta said his organisation was working with the government to send a team to Aceh, the worst hit province. He said fears were growing for several Indonesian UN employees who were in Aceh at the time of the massive tremor. "Since the quake we have not heard from them," he said. "We hope for the best." More than 5,700 people have been killed in by Sunday's earthquake in Indonesia. Most of the victims were in Aceh.
Farmers in Zimbabwe have ploughed and planted less than a quarter of the targeted agricultural land, raising fears of food shortages next year, Agriculture Minister Joseph Made has announced. Quoting Made, state radio Sunday said that "due to the shortage of tillage equipment, farmers have planted crops on 977,694 hectares (2.4 million acres) this season, compared to the anticipated four million hectares". The minister added that "no one can assess the impact of what the 977,694 hectares planted so far -- instead of the targetted four million hectares -- will have on the output of maize (staple grain) as it is in the middle of the agricultural season." A senior official in the agriculture ministry, Shadreck Mlambo, last week warned that "time is running out". 
KARACHI: Fourteen men died in the city on Sunday and Monday after they consumed poisonous liquor. Six men died in Chakiwara, Lyari. Their names and other details could not be ascertained as relations of the dead men took away their bodies from private and government hospitals without post-mortem, to save their families' reputation. Most of the deaths took place in Kharadar. In another incident in Kharadar, poisonous liquor killed Noor, Umar and Ayub in Baldia Town on Sunday. The relatives did not allow their autopsy and buried them at the earliest for fear of social stigma.
