Let's see: Your opponent is characterizing you as an effete internationalist willing to "turn America's national security decisions over to international bodies or leaders of other countries." In particular, he suggests, in all seriousness, that you want to call up Jacques Chirac for permission before deploying the military. At the Republican National Convention, you were portrayed as a beret-wearing poodle named "Fifi Kerry." How should you defend yourself against these slanders?
Ce n'est pas une 'calomnie,' il est une critique.
By speaking French on the stump, of course. . . .
Well, they don't call him a "haughty, French-looking Massachusetts Democrat" for nothing, I guess!
(Translations by "Babel Fish.")
Posted by: Mike ||
10/19/2004
9:56:03 AM ||
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My wife speaks French fluently. She says it is pigin French like schoolboys may speak and is too accented. Actually, the best French spoken is very montonal and lacking stress.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 10:28
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Of course it ain't possible to know what he said. French is a nuanced language, perfect for diplomats and elite knowers of what is. You won't hear him say it, but Kerry'd really like to talk French all the time.
#4
Ah. That explains everything, lol! He's finished. Good. I was worried he was still rather adolescent with serious Mommy things going on after that third debate. Whew! Close one.
#5
If Kerry went to a Swiss school in Zug, he may have learnt Schwyzerdutsch, not French (as in Gruezi! not Bonjour!). And if he learnt French in Zug, well, hmmm... hahaha.
#6
Since Kerry went to a Swiss finsihing school, does that make him one of those "elite knowers of what is"?
Posted by: Carlos ||
10/19/2004 12:24
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Angie Schultz
Most Haitians speak creole. It is nearly impossible to understand for a French speaker, even for a native one (much harder than understanding Portuguese for a Spaniard). I don't think that someone far less used to hearing French and with a smaller vocabulary, like an American senator, could have any chance to understand creole from his "imported" French.
#8
I went to the Haiti section of Smithsonian folk life festival, they had signs in English, French,and Haitian Creole. It was fun seeing how much (written) Creole I could understand with my schoolboy French. In some cases it was simply a matter of figuring out the funky spelling. My impression is that most Creole speaking Haitians can understand standard French, at least to some degree.
#9
Kerry's French is insufficiently deep for him to understand that when he says that French and German military "help is on the way," the French laugh at him.
In their eyes, a poseur's even worse than a cowboy. Kerry is another Jimmy Carter, and even if he were elected, would be treated with the same degree of contempt that Schmidt and Giscard had for that other naif.
#10
The distinction between Creole and French in Haiti depends on your social status: Middle class haitians and upwards can speak Creole, and take great pride in speaking French very well. I am aware of two people who were born and raised in Haiti who postitively astounded even fussy Parisians on how elegantly and well they spoke French.
The best french, by the way, is NOT spoken in Paris, but in Touraine: All the best french radio and TV announcers are Tourangeaux, and even the Parisians, in rare fits of honesty, cede that better French was spoken on the docks of the Loire than in Versaille.
NewsMax: Top Republicans in Washington are trying to determine whether or not John Kerry received an honorable discharge from the Navy, the reporter who's taken the lead in probing Kerry's naval records said Sunday. "I've already received an indication from high-ranking Republican officials that, basically, there is a major effort going on in Washington to find proof" of the type of discharge Kerry received, New York Sun reporter Thomas Lipscomb told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg. Last week, Lipscomb quoted a spokesman for Sen. John Warner, who was secretary of the Navy at the time, as saying his boss "has no recollection that would either confirm or challenge any representation that Senator Kerry received a less than honorable discharge."
Translation: "This thing is so radioactive I'm not getting anywhere near it!"
And Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade hasn't responded to Lipscomb's inquiries on the matter.
A document on Kerry's Web site says he was honorably discharged in 1978. But his actual separation from the service was in 1972.
We noticed
The Kerry document is a form cover letter in the name of the Carter administration's secretary of the Navy, W. Graham Claytor. It describes Kerry's discharge as being subsequent to the review of "a board of officers." Notes Lipscomb: "This in it self is unusual. There is nothing about an ordinary honorable discharge action in the Navy that requires a review by a board of officers."
This fits with the rumors that Kerry received a less-than-honorable discharge. When Jimmy Peanut pardoned the Vietnam draft dodgers, Kerry (a up and coming democrat) had his discharge status changed.
Because so many Navy documents from that era have subsequently been destroyed, Lipscomb said, the only evidence of the circumstances of Kerry's 1972 separation would be in national security records.
But technically they're protected - up to a point. Lipscomb said there's always the possibility that someone would leak Kerry's records. "Remember what happened to Linda Tripp?" he reminded Malzberg. "She had a juvenile conviction that was supposed to be expunged from the records. ... But one of the Department of Defense Clinton employees proceeded to out her national security file."
Bush won't play that game, I'll bet quiet orders went down to seal those records double tight. Now, if one of the board members remembers......
Lipscomb says the jury is still out on Kerry's Navy discharge until further evidence emerges. "I'm kind of sitting here, hanging in the breeze, trying to sort this out - waiting for somebody to talk, some document to pop," he said.
This is why Kerry won't release his records, there has to be something really dirty in there.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
9:43:01 AM ||
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I correspond with someone who is a staffer for a U.S. Senator who has alluded to the fact there is something "negative" about Kerry that is TS and can't be discussed. But its there. I say he was discharged less than honorably because he met with the "enemy" during his service as an officer (regardless if it is active or inactive, still an officer of the USN). Maybe its not more than a General under Honorable but my bet it is a BCD but not a Dishonorable.
#3
My understanding was that a General Discharge received during Viet Nam under Carter was nearly automatically upgraded to an honorable if the serviceman applied for the upgrade. All other upgrades would have to be vetted by a board of some sort.
So, my thinking is that Kerry most likely received a general dischange then later had it upgraded to an honorable, however, having the Sec. of the Navy involved with it it is possible that Kerry's seperation may not even been a General Discharge.
#10
CBS-Rather will have to authenticate the documents, though. That could take some time, given the 5 year claim on the TANG fraud. I think 2 weeks will hardly be sufficient for them to give their 24K solid gold imprimatur.
#11
I would guess that "unfit for command" came from a fitness report, rather than being a reason discharge.
This may be two bombshells. One that his fitness report said, "unfit for command". And another that he was not given an honorable discharge, due to his consorting with the enemy and his attending talks to kill a sitting Senator.
You can be "unfit for command" and still be an officer who will not ever be given "command". I know of someone that happened to.
I am insane, I am insane, I AM INSANE!!!!
Former Vice President Al Gore, who lost the bitterly contested 2000 election, is warning of a repeat of the recount nightmare in Florida. ``The widespread efforts by Bush's political allies to suppress voting have reached epidemic proportions,'' he charged yesterday. ``Some of the scandals of Florida four years ago are now being repeated in broad daylight even as we meet here today.'' One heartbeat away for 8 years. If that don't scare you, nothing will.
He said the Bush team used an Enron jet to ferry ``their rent-a-mob to Florida in 2000 to permanently halt the counting of legally cast ballots.'' Was Halliburton's jet booked up?
In a stinging indictment of his former rival, Gore accused Bush of forbidding dissent, disdaining facts and ignoring his mistakes in a ``recklessness that risks the safety and security of the American people.It is love of power for its own sake that is the original sin of this presidency,'' Gore said in a speech at Georgetown University sponsored by the liberal group MoveOn.org. I see THE EVIL KARL ROVE BEHIND EVERY TREE!!!
But Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said, ``Al Gore seems intent on shattering whatever minuscule credibility he has left with baseless, mean-spirited personal attacks and conspiracy theories.'' "Miniscule" credibility? Is there anything smaller then that?
He passed nano credibility a long time ago. He's now working at the subatomic level.
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/19/2004
9:35:37 AM ||
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Al Gore has gone insane. So has his party. Which is a good part of the reason it's no longer my party.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 10:06
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The mind is a terrible time to waste!
He is paranoid and that is the extent of what I learned in Psych 101. But it fits perfectly.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 10:30
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#3
This is more of the pre-emptive strike logic. They are actively engaged in trying to steal the election via massive registration fraud, squealing about intimidation (think: Nader), attempts to cause a system breakdown with piles of crap registrations at the last second, harrassment and real attacks on Pub offices, etc.
Scream the charge you're guilty of at your opponents first. It keeps the water nice 'n muddy so you can go one about your nefarious business. Dhimmidick Strategy 101.
It can only go lower / get worse in these last 2 weeks - the polls aren't cooperating with the Master Cylinder's Plan.
#7
"Scream the charge you're guilty of at your opponents first."
In my mind, the most egregious and disgusting example of this has been the Democrats' incessant complaining that Bush is "divisive".
He isn't, but they sure as Hell are.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 11:34
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.com it's like I have been saying Sorros will spend as much as it takes to steal the election. I just hope Rove and company are meaner and more cut throat in that case.
The dems are going to have lawyers that chalenge every vote for Bush and harass every registered Republican when they show up to vote. I am voting absentee so my vote can't be monkeyed with electronicly as my county bought those diebold machines with no paper back up. I in fact signed up to be a permanate absentee.
This whole deal is going to get ugly. I just hope we can hang together as a Republic whatever happens. I am keeping my powder dry and am ready to dissappear for 4 years if I have to.
#10
SPo'D - Check out Guadalajara Mexico, Panama, and Thailand. If Skeery wins, I'm taking every fucking dime with me to one of those places to sit him out.
#14
Kalle :
0.1 = 10-1 deci d
0.01 = 10-2 centi c
0.001 = 10-3 milli m
0.000 001 = 10-6 micro µ
0.000 000 001 = 10-9 nano n 0.000 000 000 001 = 10-12 pico p
Gore is then sort of like "Little Cat Z" in "The Cat in the Hat Comes Back"
Little Cat Z who is too small to see, so don't try, you cannot...
Ohio authorities say a man was charged Monday with filling out more than 100 fictitious voter registration forms, some in names such as Disney character Mary Poppins and circus freak washed-up pop singer Michael Jackson. Chad Staton, 22, of Defiance County in northwestern Ohio, was to receive money for each registration form he could persuade potential voters to fill out, said Sheriff David Westrick. Instead, Staton, himself, filled out the forms and returned them to the Toledo woman who hired him. Sheriff's deputies allege he was paid in crack cocaine instead of money.
Must have been smoking crack while filing out the forms.
Staton had his first court appearance Monday on a felony charge of false registration, and was released on his own recognizance. He has another court appearance scheduled for Friday.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
9:28:49 AM ||
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Just like the game that seemed it would never end, Boston's season just won't end. David Ortiz's RBI single on the 471st pitch of the game with two outs in the 14th inning capped a second straight amazing comeback in less than 24 hours Monday night and gave the Red Sox a 5-4 victory over the New York Yankees in the AL championship series.
And after they tied the game in the 8th inning, my %@#&*! local Fox affiliate switched to the Astros-SL game! Bastards!
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
9:10:31 AM ||
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The two best back to back games I've ever seen.
#5
Will never top Dave Bergman's World Series effort for Detroit in 1984. In ninth inning, he fouled off seven pitches, then hit the next one out of the park to take the game from San Diego.
Police in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu say they have shot dead one of India's most wanted men, the bandit known as Veerappan. Police say he was killed along with three associates in a jungle forest. Veerappan, a Tamil, was accused of more than 100 murders as well as kidnapping, smuggling and poaching and had been on the run for some 20 years. A post mortem is being conducted in the town of Dharmapuri, where a huge crowd gathered outside the hospital.
A tall, wiry man with a trademark handlebar moustache, Veerappan had been considered the country's most ruthless and daring bandit. Since 1993, Veerappan had offered to surrender to the police on three occasions, always demanding that he be given a blanket amnesty. But the authorities always insisted that he should first lay down his arms and surrender. There had been allegations that he had close links with some banned extremist Tamil nationalist groups as well as Tamil Tiger separatists in Sri Lanka.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
9:05:57 AM ||
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Notorious moustachioed bandits . . . why do they hate us?
Posted by: Mike ||
10/19/2004 9:42
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Did they curse his moustache before they shot him?
The government lashed out Monday at Haiti's interim prime minister, denying allegations that South African President Thabo Mbeki has allowed Haiti's ousted president to coordinate violence in the Caribbean country from his refuge here.
"No! No! Certainly not! Who? Us? Pshaw!"
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
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Nous permettent cela ! Certainement pas !
Mbeki is a neo-commuinist. He certainly would allow his buddy Aristide to get away with such nonsense. Look what he ignores right next door.
#3
Actually, I'm not quite sure about the "neo-" part, either. It seems to me he is a hard-line communist from waaaay back, part of the original, post-colonialist bunch. Can someone clarify this for us?
#4
No he is a "remade" commie. He and his pals went legit. Now thay have a real country to run and and economy to worry about. All the old commie thought was not a workable way to get and stay in power.
Mbeki was born in the Transkei region on June 18, 1942. His parents were teachers and members of the South African Communist Party, one of the leading anti-apartheid forces in South Africa. His father, Govan, was arrested with Mandela in 1964 for their political work.
Unlike Mandela and his generation of ANC leaders who were imprisoned, Mbeki is part of the generation of ANC leaders who spent the last decades of the apartheid era in exile. He began his tenure with the ANC Youth League at age 14. When the ANC was banned in 1962, Mbeki went into exile and continued his education. He received military training in Moscow and served as an ANC representative in several African countries before taking a place at the ANC headquarters in exile in Lusaka, Zambia.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 11:08
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No he is a "remade" commie. He and his pals went legit. Now they have a real country to runruin and economy to worry aboutdestroy. All the old commie thought was not a workable way to get and stay in power.
Shades of Rhodesia...Where are the Selous Scouts when you need them!
Seven suspected Islamic militants have been arrested in raids across Spain. Judicial sources said Monday's operations had foiled a planned bomb attack on the High Court. The interior ministry said further arrests could be made imminently, as police moved against what was described as an active Islamic militant group. It is seven months since Islamic militants launched bomb attacks on trains as they arrived in Madrid, killing 191 people. Around 20 suspects are being held in custody because of alleged links to the attacks.
A further seven were killed when their explosives blew up as police approached their hide-out in Madrid.
Just blew up, did they?
Six of those arrested on Monday have been named as Smail Latrech, Ali Omar (or "Jelloul"), Djamel Merabet, Mourat Yala (or "Abu Anas"), Ahmed Mohamed and Magid Mchmacha.
The other was identified only by the name Medhi, the Spanish news agency Efe reported. Four of the suspects were held in Almeria, one in Valencia, one in Madrid and one in Malaga, it said. They were said to include at least four Algerians and one Moroccan. "The ring is composed of Muslims that are residents in Spain," an interior ministry statement said. It said the suspects had been in contact with other individuals in Europe, the United States and Australia.
Been listening to their phone calls, excellent!
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
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This is being done outside of Zappy's crew and influence or direction. This is ole' Baltazar Garzon, I believe, on his own independent mission to at least keep the heat on terrorist and their ilk despite the great appeaser Zappy.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 9:52
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Note that they are still trying for mischief in Spain in spite of the Spanish withrawal.
#3
I think they were going directly after Judge Garzon. He's pissed off a lot of the terroist leadership (and probably several officials in various governments) by his hard-line stance.
#4
If you get the chance, tune into FoxNews - there's some clearer video of the Madrid bombings now available - I've seen time-lapse from this video before. It clearly shows the big series of blasts that did the killing... and, to a poor degree due to smoke from previous blasts, the people in the concourse who were the victims.
Peru plans to hold a new trial next month before a civilian court for imprisoned Shining Path founder Abimael Guzman and 17 other top leaders of the Maoist insurgency, court officials said Monday. The trial is to begin Nov. 5 in a newly equipped courtroom inside the maximum security naval base prison where Guzman has been held for the last 12 years. The trial date was announced on the Web page of Peru's judiciary. Guzman, 69, was captured in September 1992 and sentenced to life in prison for treason by hooded military court judges under strict anti-terrorism laws approved by then-President Alberto Fujimori, who fled Peru in 2000 amid mounting corruption scandals. Guzman was granted a new trial with his jailed co-defendants last year after Peru's highest constitutional court struck down Fujimori's anti-terrorism measures in January 2003 for failing to meet international standards of due process.
Among his co-defendants are Elena Iparraguirre, his longtime lover and top guerrilla aide, who occupies a neighboring prison cell, and Oscar Ramirez — also known by his nom de guerre "Feliciano" — who led the Shining Path after Guzman's arrest until his capture in 1999. Prosecutors will seek life sentences for Guzman, Iparraguirre, Ramirez and six other top leaders, and 22- to 25-year sentences for the nine remaining defendants.
Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, Guzman was known to his followers as President Gonzalo, inspiring cultish obedience from a guerrilla army that grew to as many as 10,000 armed fighters before his capture in a Lima safehouse. By the time he called for a cease-fire a year after his capture — as part of a deal to obtain better prison conditions — guerrilla violence had claimed tens of thousands of lives, displaced at least 600,000 people and caused an estimated $22 billion in damage. A government-appointed truth commission reported in 2003 that Shining Path was responsible for more than half of the nearly 70,000 people killed between 1980 and 2000 by rebels and military forces sent to crush the insurgency. The self-proclaimed "Fourth Sword of Marxism" after Marx, Lenin and Mao, Guzman preached a messianic vision of a classless utopia based on pure communism. He advocated a peasant revolution in which rebels would first gain control of the countryside, then advance to the cities. Shining Path rebels bombed electrical towers, bridges and factories, assassinated mayors and massacred villagers to cross what Guzman called the "river of blood." The violence dropped off after Guzman's capture, although several hundred guerrillas continue to operate in Peru's highland jungles, where they run protection for cocaine traffickers.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
8:59:16 AM ||
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Peru's highest constitutional court struck down Fujimori's anti-terrorism measures in January 2003 for failing to meet international standards of due process.
I guess Peru's highest court espouses the JFKerry "global test" theory of abdication of national sovernity.
A radical Muslim cell broken up by Spanish police had been plotting to bomb the National Court, a hub of Spain's investigations of Islamic terrorism, the interior minister said Tuesday. Seven suspects were arrested on Monday in Madrid and southern Spain, while one more was arrested Tuesday in the northern city of Pampalona, minister Jose Antonio Alonso said. "This was an operation against radical Muslims. They were planning to commit terrorist attacks," he told reporters at Parliament. "They were talking about attacking the National Court, a judicial body. But the police do rule out any other kind of possibility," Alonso said, adding that no explosives were found during the arrests.
The newspaper El Pais quoted police sources as saying the plot was only in the preliminary stages as there was no evidence that the suspects had obtained explosives. The arrests were made on the basis of wiretapped telephone conversations, it said. Another newspaper, El Mundo, reported that the plan involved detonating a truck containing 1,100 pounds of explosives outside the courthouse, located on a busy avenue in downtown Madrid. The arrests were ordered as part of a probe by the court's Judge Baltasar Garzon, Spain's leading anti-terrorism magistrate. Since September 2003, Garzon has indicted 41 people on terrorism charges, including Osama bin Laden and other al-Qaida suspects accused of staging the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
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There will be lots more where these guys came from.
A team of Egyptian doctors examined Yasser Arafat after he suffered from fever, nausea and a stuffy nose, an aide to Palestinian leader said Tuesday. The health of the 75-year-old has been a subject of intense speculation in recent years, in part because of the tremor in his lips and hands, considered as a possible symptom of Parkinson's disease. Last year, Arafat suffered from gall stones, and his aides denied rumors he had stomach cancer.
We were all hoping so hard...
An Arafat's aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said despite the current flu-like symptoms, Arafat has observed the dawn-to-dusk fast of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan which began Friday. Arafat no longer has fever or nausea, but the stuffy nose remains, his aide said. Arafat felt strong enough Monday to preside over a three-hour meeting with members of his Fatah movement. Arafat caught his cold last Tuesday, while walking in the windy courtyard of his Ramallah headquarters, the aides said. That evening, Arafat felt nauseous during dinner, couldn't finish is meal and went to bed early, the aide added.
"Look out, Saeb! He's gonna hurl!"
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
8:54:19 AM ||
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so there is an upside in the flu-shot shortage.oh please,
oh please, oh please! Hell awaits you, Mr. Arafat.
Eritrea has accused Sudan of trying to assassinate President Isaias Afeworki and of government terrorism. Meanwhile, Sudan's security chief, Saleh Gosh has accused Eritrea of wanting to topple the Sudanese government by supporting rebels. Sudan's National Democratic Alliance opposition movement has its headquarters in Eritrea. In recent years, relations between the countries have been strained and their border has been closed since 2002. Eritrean Information Minister Ali Abdu Ahmed said Sudan "continues to step up its attempts to disrupt peace and stability in Eritrea and the region by pursuing its process of government terrorism an assassination attempts against the president".
There's stability in the region? Who knew?
But Mr Gosh said Eritrea was supporting Sudanese rebel groups which have set up bases in Eritrea. Intelligence officials, he said, had seen camps belonging to the Darfur rebel groups in Asmara with the help of the Eritrean army. "We believe the Eritrean army is involved in all these campaigns in the east," he told Reuters news agency. Such comments are disseminated "for a diversion from domestic problems", Mr Ali Abdu said in his statement. Large numbers of Eritreans live in Sudan and last month Sudan granted asylum to 60 Eritreans who arrived on a hijacked plane from Libya.
Things must be pretty bad to move to Sudan.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
8:52:56 AM ||
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A mortar attack on an Iraqi National Guard headquarters north of Baghdad on Tuesday killed four guardsmen and wounded 80 others, the U.S. military said. The guardsmen were lined up in formation when six mortars hit the National Guard offices in an early morning attack in Mashahidah, 25 miles north of Baghdad, said international officials and National Guard officers under condition of anonymity. The U.S. military cited the Iraqi Defense Minister as saying four guard members were killed and 80 others wounded. The military said multinational forces helicopters helped ferry out the wounded.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
8:51:52 AM ||
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Fox / Beeb had an initial headline of 100 killed/wounded - hopefully the usual hyperbole. (Anyone get annoying pop-up ads from Fox - am I infected?)
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 8:55
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Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 9:04
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#5
I "hardly" ever get them but there are ways. It is true Mozilla is a friend. Seeing as it's all I use it's great.
When I first saw the 100 deat figure at the BBC I was skeptical. I still am as 6 inaccurate mortar rounds might have to get lucky. 6 well positioned rounds based on inside information would not need to be so lucky. I am holding my breath. This stuff is being done for US pre election consumption. The terrorists know if Kerry is elected they are home free.
#9
The BBC has toned their story down considerably. 80 wounded is still quite serious and many more could die.
Thats wonderful the IE is catching up to Mozilla. I installed all the service packs for W2K this weekend but I rarely ever boot up NT anymore. I dont need to unless I want to play Urban Terror. I wouldn't even need to do that but I am too lazy to update my nVidia X windows module. My quake video and audio are all messed up if I try to play Quake3Arena under linux currently.
#11
Since the last MS service pack, the popups have been blocked in IE as well boys.
It says volumes about an outfit that won't do a damned thing about problems with their wares until faced with widespread dissatisfaction along with the resulting user flight when something better makes itself available.
#13
The fish is evil.
My wife the French teacher warned me. It's not to polite. The speech (words) of Jaques Chirac are like burning diarrhea. Something like. John Kerry can globally test my ass.
Yea and I use Mandrake Linux 99% of the time actually. I belong to Mandrake Club. What can I say I like a nice bloated desktop install.
Two Iraqis were killed in fighting between US troops and insurgents as the Americans carried out sweeps around the northern town of Duluiya, considered a hotbed of extremism, medical sources said. A US military spokesman said soldiers had been sealing off neighborhoods and conducting searches for several days and had carried out detentions in the town, 75 kilometers (40 miles) north of Baghdad. "Two Iraqi corpses and six wounded were brought here," said medics at the general hospital in neighboring Balad.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
8:51:04 AM ||
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North Korea's No. 2 leader has told China that his country still regards six-nation talks on the dispute over its nuclear program as the best way to reach a solution, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said Tuesday. Chinese leaders were lobbying Kim Yong Nam, who arrived in Beijing Monday on an official visit, to restart stalled talks on U.S. demands for his country to give up its nuclear ambitions. Participants missed a September deadline for a new round because North Korea refused to take part. On Monday, Kim met his Chinese counterpart, Wu Bangguo, who told him that a settlement was the "common wish" of the international community. Kim responded "in the strictest terms that the position of (North Korea) concerning the six-party talks is unchanged — that is, to solve the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula through the six-party talks," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue said at a regular briefing.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
8:50:21 AM ||
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JFK loses another one. At this rate, by Nov.1, Kerry will be campaigniing on, "But I was too gonna do it better! All those foreigners are spoil sports!! Stop being so mean to me!!!"
The director of CARE International's operations in Iraq was kidnapped early Tuesday in Baghdad, the organization said. Margaret Hassan, said to be an Iraqi national, was abducted in the capital at 7:30 a.m., CARE International, United Kingdom said in a statement released in London and read to The Associated Press in Baghdad. "As of now we are unaware of the motives for the abduction," the statement said. "As far as we know, Margaret is unharmed.
The statement said Hassan had been "providing humanitarian relief to the people of Iraq" for more than 25 years. "Needless to say, we are doing whatever we can to secure her release," the statement added. "But equally, it would be unhelpful for us to comment further at this time. Our overwhelming concern must be for Margaret's safety."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
8:49:30 AM ||
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Within barely 2 hours of this breaking Al-Jizz reportedly have a vid of her - begs the question how close these 'journalists' are to the scum. Good luck to her - everything crossed. Send the buck-toothed envoys from the Muslim Council of GB out there to appear credible whilst yielding no result.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 9:36
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"As of now we are unaware of the motives for the abduction,"
Motive? Since when do they need a motive?
Are the professionally compassionate really that naive?
#7
Two international non-governmental agencies -- CARE-United Kingdom, and Doctors without Borders-France -- had no problem working in Iraq during the Saddam Hussein regime. Their contracts, thanks to EU funding, were quite good. For those who wonder, the CARE of today is just a mercenary offshoot of the Cooperative for American Relief Everywhere which achieved fame after WWII.
FALLUJAH: US warplanes unleashed a series of strikes in the rebel-held city of Fallujah overnight on buildings believed to be linked to Islamic militant Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi's network, the military said on Tuesday. "Several Abu Musab al-Zarqawi safe houses and weapons storage facilities in southern Fallujah were struck this evening as part of continued operations to thwart the Zarqawi terrorist network plans to attack the Iraqi government and its people during Ramadan," it said in a statement.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
8:46:22 AM ||
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To properly preform urban renewal/removal you should use B-52s
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
10/19/2004 10:58
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Too bad those space-based weapons described in Popular Science a while back weren't available. A half a dozen tungsten rods falling from the heavens would probably do nicely...
#3
lol urban renewal, thats a great one. how about mass cluster bombing the cluster fucks and thier mosque thing.then circle AC-130s above to pick off the shit still moving
Posted by: Shep UK ||
10/19/2004 15:47
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*snipped (intro and leading question from the Chrisco Kid)
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you the question aboutthis is going to cause some trouble with peoplebut as an historian now and studying the Revolutionary War as it was fought out in the South in those last years of the War, insurgency against a powerful British force, do you see any parallels between the fighting that we did on our side and the fighting that is going on in Iraq today?
CARTER: Well, one parallel is that the Revolutionary War, more than any other war up until recently, has been the most bloody war we've fought. (emphasis added) Oh. My. God. How could a former Commander-in-Chief be this ignorant? Every school child should know that more that more than 600,000 Americans died in the Civil War and more than 400,000 in WW2. Other than American combat deaths, figures on fatalities during the Revolution are hard to come by, but historians agree that they were fewer than 30,000, counting civilians and all combatants, and probably little more than half that.
Even if Carter's absurd contention about the Revolution were true, how is this the worst only "up until recently"? Is he trying to pull a Zinn/Goebbels Big Lie and suggest that the present war is the bloodiest in our history? In no time at all, lefty professo-liars and NEA drones will probably be telling their students exactly that, and using Carter as a source.
It gets worse:
I think another parallel is that in some ways the Revolutionary War could have been avoided. It was an unnecessary war.
Had the British Parliament been a little more sensitive to the colonial's really legitimate complaints and requests the war could have been avoided completely, and of course now we would have been a free country now as is Canada and India and Australia, having gotten our independence in a nonviolent way.
I think in many ways the British were very misled in going to war against America and in trying to enforce their will on people who were quite different from them at the time.
#1
So implicitly Peanut thinks that the president most comparable to W is George Washington. I'm down with that, as I think my son would say.
You can just imagine Peanut counselling Washington on the banks of the Delaware in December 1776.:
"General, this is rash. We must first seek permission from Ye Olde United Nations. Besides, those are crack German troops over there, and all you've got are stupid, provincial Americans who don't even have passports. At least let me speak to their commander and tell him we intend to attack. Where are you going, General?"
Or you could imagine that famous non-painting: "Kerry Hesitates to Cross the Delaware" or "Kerry Crosses the Delaware Halfway."
Posted by: Matt ||
10/19/2004 20:51
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Worse about his ignorance than that he was a former CinC is that he is a graduate of the Naval Academy. Presumably America's wars were covered in the curriculum.
Certainly the worst war in total blod spilled was the civil war but the worst proportionately was King Philip's War
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 20:52
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I think he is basing his statement on the fact that every, single American who fought in the Revolutionary War died.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 21:03
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Dead people live in the cemetary, Mrs. D. Heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 21:18
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Good point, Moose.
Maybe Peanut Boy is evaluating this according to the percentage of survivors at some point during his own lifetime.
When Carter was born, in 1924, there were still a few veterans of the Mexican War (1846-48) alive. There were still thousands of Civil War vets at that time (59 years after Appomattox, about comparable to our present relationship with WW2). The last Civil War veteran, John B. Salling (age 113), didn't pass away till 1959, btw.
That left only the Revolution and the War of 1812 with 100% death rates in 1924. Carter, historian that he is, probably knows that there were more participants in the Revolution, so naturally it qualifies as the bloodiest once the percentage tie causes the determination to accede to absolute numbers.
That completes tonight's lesson in looney left logic.
#7
"Dead people live in the cemetary, Mrs. D. Heh heh."
And in Philadelphia, they even vote. Several times in each election, if they can.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 21:37
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Unnecessary, was it, Jimmuh?
Imagine this:
Could Lord Randolph Churchill really have married Jenny Jerome of New York if she had been a subject commoner rather than a citizen of a foreign country? I think not. He would have ended up with some thin-blooded girl of his own station, their son would have been a feeble-minded inbred fop rather than Winston Bloody Churchill, noone could have rallied the Brits against Hitler in 1940, and nazis would rule the world today.
#9
I am not up on my British History - and I will certainly not even pretend to be since there are British folks here who probably know much more in their pinky then I know in my whole body but...
Wasn't England a monarcy during the revolutionary war? What is all this talk about the British Parliment?
Jimmy Carter delivered a memorable oration at the funeral of former vice president and Democratic presidential nominee Hubert Horatio Humphrey in 1978.
"One of our nation's greatest leaders," Carter momentously declared, "was Hubert Horatio Hornblower..."
#11
Parliament was around, and had been for hundreds of years. It had the power to levy taxes, and since none of the colonies had representation in Parliament, they thought they could fund the government on the backs of the Americans.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/19/2004 22:10
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CF, Britain was a Monarchy but you don't think the German on the throne paid for it, do you? That was what parliament was for, to raise money for the external conquests of the king in such a fashion that there would not be an internal revolt; mainly by cutting the members of parliament in on the king's action, which led to the joint stock company, but that is another chapter.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 22:14
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#13
For accuracy's sake, these "totals" figures are from Volume III (ppg 1040) of Shelby Foote's Civil War trilogy:
"Approximately one out of 10 able-bodied Northerners was dead or incapacitated, while for the South it was one out of four, including her noncombatant Negroes." - Foote
#14
Carters brain must be rotting. Chris Mathews should have called him on that. The bloody war the US fought is bull shit too. It is no wonder I quit watching him years ago.
#17
Don't forget that Carter set up the current world Jihad by letting a mad Mullah (supported by France) overthrow the Shah of Iran and then kidnap our people without doing anything but sulking in a Rose Garden. Jimmy boy has no right to say anything. He is at FAULT!
Then he setup the Afganistan Islamic fight against Russia with no exit plan to take care of the fanatics afterwords. (Granted afterwords was Bush 41 but by then Islamic Jihad was well trained and nasty.)
#18
I hope to one day leave a fragrant reminder of my take on Jimmy's tenure as Pres and Ex-Pres....hopefully on his grave. He's shit all over America his grown life and I just want to return the favor - call it editorial opinion
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 22:51
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The title of this post is about Carter rewriting history, but he's not the only one. The following quote is from the Hardball transcript: "When you look back on when 50 Americans were taking hostage by the Iranian so-called students, you must have thought about this so many years and so many times since then. Have you ever thought of a way you could have ended that? Could going to war have worked or that just would have been a holocaust? Do you ever think through alternative ways of approaching that horror which may have cost you the presidency?"
I listened to the show and what Matthews actually said was "Arab" students. I was yelling at my radio "No wonder you guys did such a lousy job on Iran! Don't you know that Iranians are not Arabs?"
Posted by: Tibor ||
10/19/2004 23:13
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For those who aren't subscribers, I present it unedited. John Kerry may or may not have been quoted correctly (he says not) in an Oct. 10 New York Times Magazine article in which he envisioned reducing terrorism to a mere "nuisance" level. But if author Matt Bai got it anywhere near right, as seems likely, the comment implies that the senator still doesn't understand why the U.S. is at war. Or maybe he did understand but has forgotten.
"Nuisances," like muggings and prostitution, can be managed by cops. Foreign countries harboring and sponsoring terrorists have to be subdued with armies to root out the terrorists before they can strike. Even the most limited effort, say, a lone fanatic uncorking a poison-gas canister in a crowded railway terminal or sports arena, could hardly be described as a "nuisance."
Most Americans clearly understood after 9/11 the need to go after terrorists where they live before they can get to that train station or arena. President George W. Bush set about to do just that in 2001 with the full support of Congress. Sen. Kerry fully approved before reverting to the pacifist mindset that has guided his career.
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Posted by: trailing wife ||
10/19/2004
8:02:19 AM ||
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the terrorists who pulled off the 9/11 attacks had earlier taken a great interest in the art of flying crop-duster airplanes. What could that have been all about?
Precisely read, this is not true. The US Government no longer alleges that any of the 9/11 hijackers expressed any interest in crop-duster airplanes.
Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker, collected information about crop-dusters.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 8:52
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#2
Classic photo here:
Kerry caught picking his nose...well almost...he can't decide which side.
#3
That's even worse. At least we know Mohamed Atta is dead. According to the link, it was another Arab trying to get a gov loan to buy a cropduster. The same man that the gov employee said threatened to cut off her head when the load was refused. In addition, 'a group of 12-15 "arab- looking" men who had visited the airport and asked about crop-dusters' are still out there and their identities and motives are unknown. We do know that the first anthrax attacks started in Florida. Were the perpetrators colleagues of Atta?
Posted by: ed ||
10/19/2004 9:04
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Re #3 (Ed): According to the link, it was another Arab trying to get a gov loan to buy a cropduster. The same man that the gov employee said threatened to cut off her head when the load was refused.
The gov employee, Johnell Bryant, is a fabricator. Neither Atta nor the other man came to see here about a crop-duster. She fabricated the entire story from beginning to end.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 9:47
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Mike,
Looked at your link and can accept what it says. When these conflicts in dates became apparent after the FBI re- interviewed the two witnesses, the Department of Justice decided to drop the terror crop-dusters from its case. On June 25 2002, it replaced the previous indictment with a new one that omitted the claim that "Mohammed Atta made inquiries regarding starting a crop dusting company," any other references to"crop dusting" encounters by anyone alleged to be part of the conspiracy.
So which of these are true?
1. Bryant/Lester were lying.
2. FBI did not find them believable.
3. Stories did not have corroboration and could not be proven in court.
Do you have more info (e.g. they recanted).
Posted by: ed ||
10/19/2004 10:44
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#8
Re: #5 (Ed)
I don't know or remember what the problems were with Lester's story. As I recall, he didn't specifically identify any of his Arab visitors. They were just some Arabs. I'm not sure about that, though. I'll have to review that story.
As for Bryant, her story was simply not believable for several reasons. The first reason is that Atta was not in the USA yet. The main reason is that her entire story is absurd.
When I read the transcript of her TV interview the first time, I believed her. When absurdities were pointed out to me and then I reread the transcript, I clearly recognized the absurdities. Her story is obviously imaginary.
By the way, I think that that Al Qaeda very probably has intended to attack the USA with chemical weapons and has considered the use of crop-dusters. That's probably why Moussaoui was collecting information about them. There's no good evidence (Lester aside), though, that any of the 9/11 hijackers (Moussaoui aside) collected information about crop-dusters.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 21:45
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#9
As for Bryant, her story was simply not believable for several reasons
please provide evidence. I'll be back to check at 2300 zulu time. Would appreciate references, footnotes, bookmarks and highlighting of relevant points. Neatness counts
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 21:50
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#10
2300Z, Frank, is already passed. It is almost 0200Z. Mah mah mah, how tahm flahs......heh heh.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 21:53
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#11
I didn't say today..heh heh - I can hedge as well as Mr. S
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 22:09
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Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri has been charged with 16 offences including soliciting to murder and possession of a terrorist document. He appeared at the magistrates' court at Belmarsh prison, where he has been since May at the request of the US. The UK charges mean Mr Abu Hamza's US extradition hearing on terror-related matters - due to start on Tuesday - has been put on hold. The Egyptian-born cleric has always denied any involvement in terrorism.
Mr Abu Hamza now faces 10 charges of soliciting to murder and four charges of using threatening, abusive or insulting behaviour with intent to stir up racial hatred. He has also been charged with one count each of possessing a terrorist document and possessing threatening, abusive or insulting sound recordings. Just one of the charges he faces is under anti-terrorism legislation. The former preacher at the Finsbury Park Mosque, in north London, came to the UK in 1979. He received British citizenship after marrying a Western woman.
The Beeb have used the 't' word... golly!
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004
7:08:32 AM ||
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"BBC home affairs correspondent Andy Tighe said the complexity of the case meant it was unlikely to come to trial before next year" At the end of all that I imagine he well get a whopping 2 or 3 years in jail due to his "phyical condition" and my even be bailed or put on home arrest.
I see they mentioned a document that would be useful for terrorism but never specifically call this waste of human skin a terrorist. The BBC is a waste of RF energy and Bandwith. Call a spade a spade or get out of the way.
Selles del al-Masr-Masr de Abu Hamza con los cerdos.
#2
The Finsbury Park mosque is an Islamist septic tank, and al-Masri has been the chief muckraker for nearly a decade. While it appears the U.K. has moved to interdict the U.S. extradition request, it is also possible that the U.S. has urged the U,K. to keep this spitball on ice for a few years.
#10
wow the picture is qiute shocking - shockingly funny, reminds me of the guy in a bond film who had a metel claw thing , got eaten by alligators i think,no wait he went outa a train window, only the hook remained, anyway we outa kill im.
Posted by: Shep UK ||
10/19/2004 15:41
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#11
oh and he scares my nan too with that threatning hook, kill im
Posted by: Shep UK ||
10/19/2004 15:42
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#12
Nice Halloween costume....but it ain't till the Sunday after next, dork!
Democrat Presidential nominee John Kerry delivered a speech today condemning President Bush for failing to invade Iraq in the follow-up of military action against the Talaban and Al Qaeda in Afghanastan. "Leaving this tyrant in power in contravention of numerous United Nations resolutions is unconscionable," Kerry told the Veterans of Foreign Wars. "He has left available a base of operations and a source of supply and money."
Kerry went on to criticize the war against terror as "stalled" while the real threat to America, "Saddam Hussein's Iraq goes untouched." Kerry said, "People are murdered daily in Baghdad and throughout the country. Rape rooms are a tragic reality. Torture chambers are full as Saddam's sons carry out their sadistic impulses on the helpless and hapless victims of this regime. President Bush has done nothing as this brutal dictator takes the money from the Oil for Food to build palaces while his people go without food...
It's a bird. It's a plane. No, it's a bull moose hanging by its antlers from an electrical power line in the middle of the Alaska wilderness. In one of those only-in-Alaska stories that will shock even the sourest of sourdoughs, a trophy-sized bull moose was accidentally strung up in a power line under construction to the Teck Pogo gold mine southeast of Fairbanks. The moose apparently got its antlers tangled in electrical wire before workers farther down the line pulled the line tight about two weeks ago. The moose was suspended 50 feet in the air when workers, recognizing something was wrong, backtracked and found it.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004
6:11:59 PM ||
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"because they were worried the moose, already stressed, would die and the meat would not be salvageable as a result of the drugs."
not real big on "catch & release" up north, are they
'Spider-Man' Strikes Again, Climbs 47-Story Building
POSTED: 3:14 pm EDT October 19, 2004
UPDATED: 3:56 pm EDT October 19, 2004
PARIS -- Dressed in a Spider-Man suit and using no ropes or other equipment, a French urban climber scaled the 47-story headquarters of oil giant Total on Tuesday, his second Parisian climb in less than a month.
Alain Robert, 42, who has long called himself "Spiderman," climbed the 614-foot building, located in the La Defense office park on the western edge of Paris, in just 25 minutes.
After his ascent, Robert had to pay a visit to the local police station for his feat but was released without being charged or fined, he said later.
Robert, who is renowned for climbing without ropes or other equipment, has also scaled the Eiffel Tower and more than 30 skyscrapers around the world, including New York's Empire State Building in 1994 and the Petronas Twin Towers in Kuala Lampur, Malaysia in 1997.
On Sept. 22, he scaled the 59-story Montparnasse Tower. At 689 feet, it is higher than the Total building -- which he scaled in April 2003 to protest the war in Iraq.
The building was then the headquarters of TotalFina Elf.
The Israeli military reports that it has killed six Palestinian militantsterrorists in separate incidents in and around Gaza. It said two gunmen from the militantterrorist Hamas group were killed on Israeli territory after cutting through the border fence. Another two militantsterrorists were shot after planting a bomb near the border with Egypt, the army added. It also said troops had returned fire at two militantsterrorists who attacked an army vehicle, apparently killing both. The incident happened near the Kissufim crossing between Gaza and Israel.
'Gross violation'Justifiable action
Israel has just ended a massive offensivedefensive action into the northern Gaza Strip, which it said was to prevent the firing of makeshift rockets at Israeli territory nearby. The top United Nations diplomatterrorist shill in Gaza has characterised the Israeli operation, which focused on Jabaliya refugee camp, as a "gross violation of international and humanitarian law". Hundreds of Jabaliya residentsharborers and supporters of Hamas terrorists have been made homeless The head of the United Nations Relief Works Agency (Unrwa) and total loony , Peter Hansen, said at least 90 homes had been destroyed and up to 700 Palestinians made homeless in the operation, codenamed Days of Penitence. "I am protesting every time it happens. No one gives a flying leap Peter except the BBC the rest of the MSM, LLLs and EUrotrash Peter. Most of what we have seen here in Jabaliya over the last two weeks is a gross violation of international and humanitarian law," he saidfrothed during a tour of Jabaliya. You also should be thankful they didn't just kill you along with them you terrorist loving loon The two-week incursion left at least 100 Palestinians, at least one third of them supposedly civilians, dead. One Israeli soldier was killed in an ambush by Palestinian militantsterrorists and two Israeli toddlers were killedmurdered by rocket fire.
Mr Hansen was involved in a furious row with Israeli authorities during the offensive, when Israel claimed a UN ambulance had been used by Palestinian militants terrorists to transport weaponry. It later never fully retracted the accusation. He is lucky Israel doesn't just throw him in jail along with the rest of the terrorists UN employees in Gaza.
Explosive belt
The two militantsterrorist homicide bombers who managed to infiltrate Israel were spotted soon after cutting through the security fence that surrounds the Gaza Strip. They got as far as an orchard several hundred metres from the Holit kibbutz, or collective farm. One of the menterrorists was thankfully killed by Israeli gunfire, while the other blew up, as he was reportedly wearing an explosive belt, the Israeli military said. Blowing up like that is a pretty good sign I would say. The terrorist group Hamas did not say exactly what the mission had been, but it is likely that they planned a suicidal raidterrorist attack on the farming community, the BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says. The army patrols and monitors Gaza's perimeter fence extremely carefully, and militantsterrorists very rarely manage to penetrate the defences. This is the second time in six weeks that Hamas terroristattackersmurders have been able to get into Israel itself and start to close in on a kibbutz before being killed, our correspondent says. Israel has legitimately occupied Gaza since capturing the territory in 1967. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is planning to withdraw settlers and Israeli soldiers from the 40 km long strip, which is home to 1.3 million Palestinians. Approximately 8,000 settlers from Gaza, and the troops who protect them from terrorists, are expected to leave Gaza by the end of 2005, though Israel will maintain control of Gaza's borders, coastline and airspace until the Palestinians renounce terroism, disarm, recgonize Israel's legitimate borders and, right to exist.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom ||
10/19/2004
4:43:44 AM ||
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I won't be sad when the terrorists finally figure out they can get much more media milage from whacking these sympathetic BBC guys. 24/7 coverage. First the where, then the why.... the funeral, the wailing, and the endless analysis.
Gotta go for the Al Jizz and BBC types if you want to get that type of airtime. MSM won't give that sort of air time to anyone who is not already reporting for your side.
I appreciate the hard work on this article. Man, you really spend a lot of time on this.
There is going to be a lot of dead Paleo's in the coming days. I hope RB has enough bandwidth for all of the upcoming "dancing virgins" jpeg's. BTW, someone needs to check on the raisin inventory, we want to make sure that it doesn't run out.
The newspaper said that army sources said that one attack was stopped early Friday when the Golani Brigade fired on a group that had brought a rocket launcher into the Jabalya camp, using children to carry it.
More voter registration hijinx from those hilarious Dem practical jokers! Edited for brevity.
Students at the University of Central [Florida] and two community colleges claim they were duped into switching their party affiliations from Democrat to Republican, campus police officials said Tuesday. Fewer than 10 students have filed reports with UCF police saying they were approached by a middle-aged couple in the student union who asked for support in changing child molestation laws. The students filled out a form that asked for personal information, and some time later they received a notice from the county election supervisor's office that their party affiliation had been changed, said Sgt. Troy Williamson, a spokesman for the UCF police. Similar incidents have occurred at Valencia Community College in Orange County and Seminole Community College, Williamson said. "They thought they were signing a petition to change child molestation laws," Williamson said. "They didn't realize they had changed their political party." All the cases involved Democrats being switched to Republicans, Williamson said. He added that the party switch wouldn't affect their ability to vote in the Nov. 2 election.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
3:57:10 PM ||
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Read before signing, genius.
Is taking advantage of the intellegence challenged a crime?
#3
Of course, changing party affiliation means absolutely nothing after party primaries have been held. They could have been switched to Communist, Green, or Gumby Party and it wouldn't have mattered. So what's the big deal?
#5
I call bullshit. This has all the earmarks of an urban legend, given that it isn't a simple one-line form to change one's party affiliation. Note that this story seems remarkably similar.
#6
fallous, it only makes sense if they were getting paid for each new regsitrant that they signed up. They probably asked, "are you registered" and if they said, "yes" then they pretended they were signing them up for the molestation thing to get their name and address. That way, it was recorded as a "change" and thus a legitimate registration. By the time any of the duped got their notice from the registrar, the couple had their money and was long gone.
All the republicans were probably smart enough to read what it was they were signing.
Otherwise, it's like you say, probably just an urban legend. There would be no reason for anyone to take the trouble to change someones party affiliation at this point in the game. But maybe the dem's spreading this rumor are too stupid to know that.
#8
I'm surprised the gut reaction of several people is that these students were too stupid to read what they were signing. If you're getting paid (in cash or crack cocaine, whatever your preference) to register new Dem voters, all you need is some personal information to fill out a card and fraudently change someone's affiliation. Name, address, possibly SSN, and a signature you can fake--assuming the people processing the cards will really take the time to verify signatures--and drop it off. Voila!
I can easily believe these kids signed a petition and their info was copied to individual registration cards. That doesn't verify the story, but I can believe they were duped by signing something that read completely different. A petition listing info for several dozen people would be hard to confuse with a registration form for an individual.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004 17:27
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They probably asked, "are you registered" and if they said, "yes" then they pretended they were signing them up for the molestation thing to get their name and address
Dar..I suppose I was being a bit rude when I said that Dems were too stupid to read it...but it was supposed to be a joke. Apparently not as snarky as I'd thought.
If the people that they encountered said they weren't registered, then they may have tried to register them. But if they said yes, they were registered, then my point was that the couple most likely maximized their profits by getting their names and addresses off the petition. Maybe they guessed that students were most likely to be democrats and thus modified them all to Republicans in order to qualify for their cash/crack/whatever.
Ah well...it's all speculation anyway. Doesn't really matter.
Slovak police said Tuesday they had arrested a man for two gas attacks at a Bratislava post office in which more than 50 people were hospitalized. At the time of the attacks, which took place in September, local media had speculated about the possibility of a terrorist incident associated with Slovakia's participation in the war in Iraq. However, a police spokesman said the attack had been carried out by a deranged, 26-year-old drug addict. Identified only by his first name, Radovan, the man had apparently had a grudge against the post office after being prevented by staff from trying to sell low grade perfumes on the premises. He then returned on two separate occasions spraying the post office with a gas compound containing phosgene and chlorpicrin, two elements of a gas first used in World War I. None of those affected by the gas has suffered long term health problems. If convicted the man could face two years in jail. Two separate attacks that affected 50 people and he risks TWO FREAKIN' YEARS?! Oh, that's right--drug addiction is an illness, so he's a victim, too. :-P
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
3:14:38 PM ||
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He went from low grade perfume to high grade perfume. Pretty freaky.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 16:28
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had a grudge against the post office after being prevented by staff from trying to sell low grade perfumes on the premises.
Yep, AP. Think he was well within his rights as a deranged Perfume Salesperson. You gotta do, what you gotta do.
Following the Beslan tragedy last month, Russian officials began threatening to attack Chechen rebel sympathizers and representatives abroad. Last week, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov, who was attending a meeting of the NATO-Russia Council in Poiana Brasov, Romania, said that Russia would launch pre-emptive strikes against terrorists worldwide, but would stop short of using nuclear weapons.
Hours later, the first "pre-emptive strike" occurred in London. The homes of exiled Chechen rebel envoy Akhmed Zakayev and former Federal Security Service officer Alexander Litvinenko were attacked with Molotov cocktails. Zakayev is the chief representative of Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov in the West. Litvinenko has in the past accused the FSB of carrying out the 1999 bombings of Moscow apartment buildings in order to create a pretext for invading Chechnya and of plotting to kill Boris Berezovsky. Zakayev, Litvinenko and Berezovsky have been granted political asylum in Britain.
The arson attacks damaged property, but no one was injured and no arrests have been made. Boris Labusov, the official spokesman for the Foreign Intelligence Service, or SVR, ruled out any SVR involvement. Technically, Labusov may be telling the truth, but the SVR is not the only branch of Russia's intelligence services operating abroad. In Qatar, two officers of the General Staff's Main Intelligence Directorate, or GRU, were convicted for a car bombing in February that killed former Chechen rebel leader Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
10/19/2004
3:01:46 AM ||
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#1
What a strange article. It's point is that Russia says it will retaliate against terrorists up to but not including nukes. Then it tries to sell the idea that the Russian's first "pre-emptive strike" was with Molotov cocktails!?? *snicker* Me thinks the idea of Beslan revenge seems a bit more *ahem* logical.
Zakayev, Litvinenko and Berezovsky have been granted political asylum in Britain. For heavens sakes, why????
#3
If they even suspected the Breslan atrocity and did nothing to stop it I hope some does use a spoon to remove their eyes and then scoop their brains out. Death to all the %&*@ing Chechen terrorsits and anyone who supports or has supported them.
#4
The obvious question is how do you terrorize the Muslim terrorists? They know how to reach civilized peoples without spending great sums of money. How do we reach them? One way would be to track down their families and lay into them. Example: Zarkawi murders right and left and hacks off people's heads. His people slaughter 30 at a clip with car bombs. Yet his family lives an undisturbed life in Jordan.
#5
No reports of these Chechens having their homes firebombed in the UK press? Bulldog - hear owt? This is precisely why we have a system of political asylum - to prevent barbaric acts being perpetrated against individuals should they return to their own country. Being a force for good in the world makes me proud to be British.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 6:19
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aherm...
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 6:19
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Howard? You got something in your throat?
Well I am pretty sure the old KGB knew how to terrorise terrorists. If I recall it did entail using influnce over the lives/body parts of close relations. In Zarkawi's case he is a pathological murderer/sociopathic murder and would not likely be effected by such a series of actions.
#10
I'm glad Kery has not volunteered to take nukes off the table. Probably because he hasn't thought of it.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 9:55
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Dennisw: âExample: Zarkawi murders right and left and hacks off people's heads. His people slaughter 30 at a clip with car bombs. Yet his family lives an undisturbed life in Jordan.â
Yes, I donât understand it. The US may be too squeamish for a âmafiaâ approach at this stage of the WoT, but other world players arenât. Even individuals could seek revenge against Zarkawiâs family.
Perhaps his family is closely monitored in the hope that they will lead to Zarkawi.
SPOD: âIn Zarkawi's case he is a pathological murderer/sociopathic murder and would not likely be effected by such a series of actions.â
Perhaps Zarkawi wouldnât be affected but Iâd be willing to give it a try. It might deter other potential terrorists. Or it might make family members more willing to restrain or report their relatives.
#13
Fair enough SPoD, then the Russians should ice his family and friends. Whether they go further than that (friends of friends, cousins etc) is up to them.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
10/19/2004 15:38
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#14
"I'm coming out. I see anybody and I'm gonna kill him. Any son-of-a-bitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, I'm gonna kill his wife and all his friends and burn his damn house down. Nobody better shoot!"
Posted by: John Simmins ||
10/19/2004 16:43
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Seeing this discussion reminds me of something I've wondered about since 9/11: If the Mafia (in all of its guises and forms) has the power that it pretends to have, why hasn't *it* taken action against Islamofascists where governments and civillians have lacked the willpower to do so?
When Russian President Vladimir Putin visited China, who really got what? Who were and are the winners in the short term and the long run? Russia got a chunk of territory and China's endorsement of Moscow's World Trade Organization (WTO) entry; China did not get a coveted pipeline but there were a spate of mutually beneficial economic accords. Still, China takes the long view and figures that it will come out on top. It may take 20 years, strategic analysts calculate, but China sees itself the winner. Continued at link. Lengthy, but very interesting!
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
2:50:46 PM ||
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Edited for brevity.
Russian security services seized two containers filled with highly radioactive material at a scrap yard in central Russia, Interfax news agency said on Tuesday. Radiation levels at the scene in the Volga town of Saratov, where the containers with uranium-238 were discovered, were 358 times higher than normal, Interfax said, citing regional emergency officials. Nuclear officials in Moscow could not immediately confirm the report. Depleted uranium, where uranium-238 is usually found, can be theoretically used to make nuclear "dirty bombs."
Interfax said homeless people brought the containers to the scrap yard. It quoted regional nuclear experts as saying officials at the scene had also found an empty container normally used to transport uranium. Uranium-238 is a highly dense and toxic material mainly used in gun ammunition and armor. "That type of uranium looks very much like lead so I would not be surprised if someone had simply mistaken it for it and dumped at the scrap yard," a spokesman for the Russian Atomic Energy Agency said. "This lead sure is pretty! Look how it glows!"
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
2:45:47 PM ||
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#1
mmmmmmm luminous
Posted by: Shep UK ||
10/19/2004 15:38
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Depleted uranium, where uranium-238 is usually found, can be theoretically used to make nuclear "dirty bombs."
#3
Hmmm. Depleted uranium-238. I bet a Google search for that turns up all kinds of moonbat crap before you get to the facts. Depleted means it's not to radioactive. Toxic I don't know about but I wouldn't be putting lead and lots of other things in my in my mouth either.
It's as I suspsected. After a Foogle search I went through 2 and a half pages of moonbat junk science before I started seeing real science. this article lays to read what utter crap this article from Ruters is.
#6
Anyone trying to build a "dirty bomb" from depleted uranium is going to end up getting laughed out of town.
Depleted uranium is called "depleted" because it's just that: depleted. It's the U-238 you have left over after you've removed the U-235 reactor/bomb stuff from naturally occurring uranium, and the main danger from it is that being one of the "heavy metals", it'll screw up your chitlins something terrible if you somehow manage to ingest enough of it.
But it's only slightly radioactive, and the main component of its radiation output is alpha particles, which have little penetrating power. Radiation-wise, it's about as dangerous as concrete.
Steven Den Beste has some good articles on depleted uranium, with more technical info.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 18:41
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But it's only slightly radioactive
But, but, but... U-238 will stay radioactive practically forever! It'll only lose half its radioactivity in (digs out Rubber Bible) four and a half billion years!
(The same amount of lead would of course remain toxic forever, but that's beside the point.)
It's always possible that the article had the story totally garbled, and the material in question was (a) spent fuel, or (b) DU that had been used to shield a neutron source, thereby becoming Bad Stuff.
Posted by: Eric Wilner ||
10/19/2004 19:07
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Oh man I have to discuss this crap at work...
DEPLETED means the U-235 isotope has been filtered out. It's safer than NATURAL uranium. The average human is more radioactive by an order of magnitude than processed (read DEPLETED) U-238. BAN HUMANS?
It's also safer than lead. It's heavier than lead too, that's why they use it as keel ballast on ships. Imagine the average filthy rich lefty 'expert' (i.e., Theresa Heinz-Kerry) complaining about how awful DU is on a cruise ship....
#9
If I recall it burns pretty well. Lots of nice radioactive dust to breathe in. Your skin stops alphas nicely, but if the source is inside your lungs already . . .
Posted by: James ||
10/19/2004 22:39
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Russian President Vladimir Putin has promised that the authorities will make a resolute response to any manifestations of xenophobia and work on the establishment of democratic but strict migration rules. Speaking at the second session of the All-Russia Azerbaijani Congress in Moscow on Tuesday Putin said since such acute problems as xenophobia had been mentioned, there must be a reason for that. "This indicates we make some mistakes in our work. We must analyze the situation and make a tough response. The government policies will be aimed at preventing such manifestations in the most consistent and tough way," Putin said. He called for remembering the interests of those who have been historically resident in this or that country. "We must take into consideration the interests of those people who never travel anywhere, and who stay at home all the time," Putin said. "We must create and master the use of an up-to-date, democratic, strict law regulating all spheres of our activity, including migration," he said. Putin said Russia was interested in a competent migration policy in the CIS space. "Russia is interested in ensuring the freedom of travel in the post-Soviet space. We must teach the people to respect the laws of the host country."
"R - E - S - P - E - C - T, I'll teach you what it means to me!"
The Russian president believes that no state would be able to cope with this task effectively on its own, without support from non-governmental organizations. "Of course, we'll make an exception for Chechens."
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
2:41:20 PM ||
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A Moscow Court turned down an appeal against an earlier ruling sentencing a gang of Pakistani kidnappers to up to 10 years in a penal colony for holding Indian nationals hostage and demanding a ransom from their families, the Interfax news agency reported. Nothing screams "vacation resort" like a Russian penal colony!
Three Russian citizens of Pakistani decent were sentenced in May to 10, nine and eight years in a high security labor colony for kidnapping nine Indian citizens in Moscow. The court found them guilty of extortion and kidnapping — the prosecutors were able to prove that the kidnappers forcefully held the Indians and had them call relatives in India after giving their victims cell phones, demanding $4,000 for the release of each hostage. In January of 2003, police and FSB agents arrested the kidnappers in Tula, 200 kilometers south of Moscow, where they were holding the nine Indians. The criminal group, however, had spread far beyond Moscow, and included residents of several Eastern European countries. The organization specialized in the illegal transfer of Pakistanis, Indians, and Bangladeshis through Eastern Europe. The kidnappers would initially offer their victims a free transfer into Europe, and then hold them for ransom.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
2:35:16 PM ||
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One of the "strict regime" colonies, I suspect.
Edited for brevity.
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat is hoping John Kerry wins the presidential election in November, several Palestinian leaders told WorldNetDaily. Arafat deputy and chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat told WND in an exclusive interview that while "we do not involve ourselves in internal American politics," at the same time "our region has been sliding deeper and deeper into chaos because of certain policies over the past few years, and this needs to change." While he would not directly endorse Kerry, it was clear Erekat was implying the PA wants a change in White House leadership: "If things continue the way they are, if certain policies toward our region are maintained in the years to come, there is going to be a lot of violence on both sides."
A prominent Arafat aide who asked that his name be withheld spoke to WorldNetDaily from Arafat's battered Ramallah compound. "The president [Arafat] is frustrated with Bush's policies," he said. "The president [Arafat] thinks Kerry will be much better for the Palestinian cause and for the establishment of a Palestinian state." Also today, PA Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath said the future of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process is unsure if George W. Bush is re-elected to office, and he complained the U.S. presidential election was stalling the Middle East peace process. Like I needed any more reasons to vote for Bush.
Posted by: Dar ||
10/19/2004
2:25:37 PM ||
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Pity we don't have a source other than WND, otherwise I'd run with it ...
Yeah, like that's gonna happen anytime soon.Russia's Mufti Council has called for the unity of Sunni and Shiite Muslims, the Interfax news agency reported Tuesday. Ravil Gainutdin, chairman of the Council of Russia's Muftis, wants Shiite and Sunni Muslims to merge their religious lives in Russia. He told the Second Gathering of the All-Russian Azerbaijani Congress that he had asked the Russian authorities to allocate some land for a Shiite mosque, Interfax said. "But I pose a question to the Congress: Should we continue making a distinction between Shiite and Sunni mosques? For they share all major Islamic teaching," Gainutdin said.
Right up until Big Mo died, they been feuding about who gets to run things ever since.
"The Russian authorities do everything for Azerbaijanis not to experience problems in organizing their religious lives in their new home, Russia," he said. Azerbaijani Muslims are Shiites while Russian Muslims are Sunnis.
Shareing a mosque would save time, they could just shoot across the room at each other.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004
2:04:10 PM ||
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Funny how it islam split and the bloodshed ensued immediately after mo's death isn't it. These were the very people who knew him and his teachings the best. These were the best and purest muslims of all muslims. And they started fighting like dogs as soon as the old man was cold.
Yeah that mo and his first followers, proof positive that islam is the religion of peace. Look no further than them to refute that statement and prove that islam was only modified and moderated by wiser and better men than mo once it came into contact with more civilized regions.
There is no way to trace a habit of peace and non-violence back to mo and his first followers. None. He was a desert tyrant with a genius for miltary strategy much like that of other barbarian conquerors. He tried his hand at poetry and shamanism and his synchopants proclaimed him inspired. Synchophants always imitate someone who is a proven winner both to ass kiss and to succeed themselves. With the riches mo plundered his movement really took off but it was all based on lies and greed and flattery and it predictably fell apart once the unifiying force was gone.
Unfortunately for the whole world that didn't happen until a new generation of more naiive muslims were born and raised muslims with all the agression and characteristics of their parents coupled with the unwavering belief that muslim miltary victories of the past proved God's favor for the new universal Arab/Borg tribe. By then it was too late for the idea to disappear and trouble the world no more.
All of islam's early history is perfectly consistent with the theory that mo was not a prophet but just a regular human genius with a penchant to do whatever it took to win and his followers learned their lessons well.
As for these calls for unity. Its all hot air and will never come to anything except knives at each others throats.
Five splinter groups of the Communist Party of India Marxist-Leninist will meet either in Andhra Pradesh or Orissa in January 2005 to discuss unification, said Kanu Sanyal, one of the leaders of the naxalbari movement. Addressing a rally after unveiling the statue of the late naxal leader Tarimela Nagi Reddy at Anantapur town in Andhra Pradesh on Sunday, Sanyal said that the revolutionary parties would come together on a single platform at an all-India conference to chalk out an action plan for launching a fight against the central and state governments for their anti-people policies. The participants will also discuss plans to unite all revolutionary parties into one 'CP-ML' unit at the central level.
Sanyal, a close associate of Charu Mazumdar, the founding father of the naxalbari movement that originated in West Bengal in 1967, said that armed struggle was the only means to achieve the revolution to purge the anti-people policies of the government. He said there was no difference between the policies of the National Democratic Alliance and the United Progressive Alliance; both were serving their own interests. The septuagenarian leader accused them of adopting anti-farmer policies instead of solving the problems of farmers and agricultural labourers. The naxal parties will in particular target the central and state governments for promoting the policies of the World Bank and for pandering to multinational corporations, Sanyal said. He said that revisionists were posing a threat to the communist movement in the country. Nagi Reddy's dream would come true only if all revolutionary parties work unitedly for people's welfare, he said.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
10/19/2004
1:37:30 AM ||
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The Colloseum scene from Life of Brian immediately springs to mind. But that's comedy - this is tragic stupidity and the greed of men. Nothing revolutionary about it.
In a move with far-reaching consequences, India's two dominant Maoist groups, the Maoist Communist Centre (MCC) and People's War Group (PWG), have merged and formed the Communist Party of India (Maoist). A press release issued by Ganapati, the long-standing underground leader of PWG, said the unity was aimed at furthering the cause of "revolution" in India. Ironically, the acronym of the new party will be CPI-M, the same as for the Communist Party of India-Marxist (CPI-M). The latter is a long-standing political party in India
The new party pledged to work in close collaboration with the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), which is leading a bloody insurgency in the Himalayan kingdom. The Jharkhand police, who keep a close track on developments on the Maoist front, have confirmed the development. Ganapati said in his statement that the new party would fiercely oppose the central government run by the Congress and its mainstream communist allies, the Communist Party of India (CPI) and the CPI-M. He also announced the formation of a People's Liberation Guerrilla Army and extended support to "revolutionary struggles" in Nepal, Peru, the Philippines, Turkey and other places. That would be their fellow Maoists such as the Shining Path, New People's Army etc. As well as groups in Bangladesh, Iran, Colombia and Sri Lanka.
For the last five years, the PWG and the MCC had been trying to merge but repeated efforts failed for a variety of reasons. Officials admit that the merger will have serious implications in Jharkhand and others states facing the Maoist threat. In the 1980s and 1990s, the PWG and the MCC were locked in a fierce internecine war for supremacy in different parts of undivided Bihar, causing the death of hundreds of guerrillas and their sympathisers. The creation of Jharkhand in November 2000 and anti-Maoist operations launched by the administration pushed MCC and PWG to forge closer links. A truce came into being between them three years ago. The merger has caused uneasiness among police officers here who have vowed to work out fresh strategies to deal with the development.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
10/19/2004
1:33:04 AM ||
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#2
..My friends/family back home say that there is very quiet resentment - especially among the blue collar ethnic neghborhoods of Cleveland - towards Al-Guardian's jihad.
Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski ||
10/19/2004 14:10
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In Cleveland? Now that's good news - as it's Dhimmidick country. Thx, MK!
#4
Prof. Dawkins doesn't get it.
In this country, Tony Martin wouldn't be charged with a crime. And it would be a long time before he was charged for a drink.
Posted by: Richard Aubrey ||
10/19/2004 14:37
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#5
Spot on, Richard!
I'd sure as hell buy him one or several.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 14:57
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#6
Since I lived in the UK when Martin did his deed I can attest to the British press, especially the left wing sector, getting their knickers tied up in knots over his actions. In fact, they painted him the agressor and the thieving petty criminals (one a young guy - the dead one)as the victims. It is this kind of LLL mentality nurtured by the leftwing press of socialist UK that makes their understanding of America, Ohio, Clark County and 2nd amendment rights so pathetically wrong. I will never understand the British class system but I have seen it at work everyday and it is alive and well. Do I go around writing letters and standing on a ladder in Hyde Park denouncing it. Hell no. It not my business, nor was the vote on fox hunting, privitizing hospitals, Railtrack or any other UK political issue. It is up to them to solve their own problems. We can give advice when asked, technology when required and services when needed. I don't think this is going well with theh majority of the UK public only the noisy nannies of promoted socialism.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 15:06
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#7
Good grief!, I didn't realise they'd brought Tony Martin into their letter. Bloody idiots (but I'm very pleased that they did!), this may have given Cook County to Bush.
So, do we think Bush is going to make it? I'm certainly hoping so.
As an aside, a lot of people are fed up of the nanny state here (and *royally* pissed off with the friggin' EU!), so I'm still hopeful we'll get ourselves sorted out...
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
10/19/2004 15:15
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#8
Hell, here in Texas Tony Martin would have the thanks of a greatful constabulary for reducing the quantity of a--hole thieves they have to deal with regularly.
And Prof. Dawkins may think it teddibly, teddibly uncivilized...but the odd thing is... home invasion is a pretty rare crime around here
#10
Here's Steyn's Tony Martin quote: The reason is advice like this, from Guardian reader Richard Dawkins, Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. Dawkins begins his missive to the Clark County swing voter with a little light Bushophobia: "An idiot he may be, but he is also sly, mendacious and vindictive... thuggish ideologues. pariah state. brazenly lying. cynical mendacity" yada-yada. But then he goes on: "Now that all other justifications for the war are known to be lies, the warmongers are thrown back on one, endlessly repeated: the world is a better place without Saddam. No doubt it is. But that's the Tony Martin school of foreign policy."
At this point, the Guardian's editors intervene with an explanatory parenthesis: "[Martin was a householder who shot dead a burglar who had broken into his house in 1999]." And then Dawkins continues: "It's not how civilised countries, who follow the rule of law, behave. The world would be a better place without George Bush, but that doesn't justify an assassination attempt."
You just blew it big-time in Clark County, prof. Voters may be divided on Bush and on the Iraq war but, in the American heartland, they're generally agreed on a homeowner's right to take out a burglar.
Posted by: Steve ||
10/19/2004 15:55
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This may have been a typo, or it may not. For Bush to win Crook County (IL)is still a long shot at best, but I don't anticipate the votes coming in from Chicago as furiously for this present JFK as they did for the original JFK.
Reaons?
1) Hizzoner Da Mayer, Richard M. Daley was pretty pissed off when Kerry blew off the mayor's convention due to the presence of a picket line. (Something that didn't bother him the other day in Orlando, incidentally.)
2) Daley doesn't want to get on Bush's bad side since the mayor badly wants O'Hare expansion to go through.
Daley will be lukewarm (at best) for Kerry while decidedly not attacking Bush.
Personally, I figure Cleveland will go for Kerry -- especially considering the 1,000 fraudulent registrations they've found there.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/19/2004 17:02
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#14
Could someone send some YOBS around to see Professor Dickless Dawkins. I may not be well spoken but I have had it with UK assclowns who think it's OK to bash my counrty. I defy any one to find any mainstream paper in the US that has the nerve to attack the UK, it's leadership or government let alone the temerity to attack Britain.
"Put the cuffs on him, Mahoney!"
"But, Soor! He's glowing! And he's got gill slits!"
"Put the tongs on him, then!"
Authorities have arrested a man found with radioactive cesium-137 in the trunk of his car, a state official said Monday. The highly toxic material, which could contaminate large areas if used in a "dirty bomb," was found Friday and "rendered harmless," Ashot Martirosian, chief of the State Atomic Oversight department, said. Yerevan resident Gagik Tovmasian was arrested on charges of illegal trade in radioactive materials, Martirosian said. It was unclear how the man obtained the material, but various sources for it exist in Armenia, a small former Soviet republic in the Caucasus Mountains, Martirosian said. Various industries use cesium-137 in density gauges and for machine calibration. Authorities in neighboring Georgia have spoken of the need to create a storage site for gauges in which cesium-137 was used to measure the level of gasoline in underground tanks at gas stations. Martirosian did not say how much cesium was found, but he said the substance is very hazardous to human health. Devices containing cesium-137 can cause serious radiation exposure if broken and held. Depending on the amount and form, experts say a dirty bomb made with cesium-137 could spread intense radioactivity over a section of a city, making it uninhabitable.
Depending the amount, lots of circumstances, and no clean-up effort.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
1:32:29 AM ||
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But the expert in the UK said the other day there was no such thing and not to worry. He said it was a hoax on the public. This must be more BusHiler propaganda to justify his imperial aims on the world.
⢠noun a soft, silvery, extremely reactive metallic chemical element.
â ORIGIN from Latin caesius âgreyish-blueâ (because it has characteristic lines in the blue part of the spectrum).
Why does Chirac like burnt shit?
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 8:43
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#14
Well, why it is caesium then when it is actually seezim?
This is really bugging me sometimes... when someone says playdough and actually means Plato.
#15
Caesium ought to be spelt that way, IMO, as it's faithful to the Latin. Aluminum ought to be spelt and pronounced that way (what's wrong with Platinum?) as that's the original spelling. But then, in a perfect world (blogo)sphaere would be spelt with an a, and in the US, I'd like innocent pedophiles (foot-lovers to the rest of us) to be able to get on with their fetish without being mistaken for paedophiles... That 'a' is useful, dammit.
#16
Obey the dog. Stay close to your latinate roots oh learned ones.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 9:38
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#17
We should fight over our language more often.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 9:46
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#18
Well I will just use penderasts and let that be that not to be a pendant or anything.
All I know is this isn't radium this gomer was going to paint watch dials with. This is some nasty stuff. If it all came out of gauges someone is going to be very contaminated and may get a bad case of dead.
My brother told me about some kids down in Brazil (might be an urban legend) who some how got into Caesium that had been left some place. They smeared it all over their bodies. A very sad story. It's like these idiots who used to steal mercury swtiches out in the oil fields no idea about contamination. They would bring pounds of the stuff into their homes and play with it.
Only the criminally insane would knowingly try to illicitly trade in this radiologic material. Pump them for all the info yuou can get out of them then take them out to a ditch in back a shoot them. You will be doing them a favor because when they get ill they are going to be in a really bad and hopeless way.
#19
Malheuresement je ne comprends pas ton efforts avec la langue francaise. Pardon.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 10:05
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#20
Bulldog> I think that "podophile" is actually the correct word for the foot-fetishists. Modern Greek "podi" for foot, from the ancient "pous" gen. "podos". -- no Epsilon anywhere that I'm aware of. Compare with "tripod".
Haven't a clue how words like "biped" came about though.
#22
It's from the Latin pedis, meaning foot. Like pedal, from the Latin pedalis - 'of the foot' (Latin 'foot' = pes or pedis). The Greek 'pod' strictly means 'foot' when used in English, but is also commonly used to denote 'leg' rather than 'foot', eg in 'bipod', 'tripod', compared with 'biped' or 'triped'. It's the myriad linguistic inheritances that makes English so versatile, so comprehensive, and so nuanced, you see. Heh.
#24
Yes I meant paederast. Paedophile is more correct.
One people seperated by a common language at birth LOL and Yes I am spelling chalenged frequently. I try to use a dictionary.
Howard I have quit playing with the Bablefish my wife told me to knock it off. She teaches french and has warned me off repeatedly. J'ai perdu mon français. I only had one semester of conversational french years ago. We never speak it at home. I am learning (american) Spanish and am doing poorly at it right now.
No urban legend. The capsule was takenstolen , from a building where it had been left, as scrap and when it was broken open in a scrap yard the kids who were there noticed that it glowed and proceeded to paint themselves with it.
They died horribly.
#28
I was told one time of a guy who picked up a slug of Cobalt 60 that had fallen out of a radiography truck (the cable holding it inside the block of lead in which it was carried broke), and stuck it in his back pocket. He lost his gonads, penis, and one buttock. My source told me he saw the medical photos, and they were quite gruesome.
Mode of decay: Beta and gamma radiation
Chemical properties: Liquid at room temperature, but readily bonds with chlorides to form a powder.
External exposure to large amounts of Cs-137 can cause burns, acute radiation sickness, and even death. Exposure to Cs-137 can increase the risk for cancer because of exposure to high-energy gamma radiation. Internal exposure to Cs-137, through ingestion or inhalation, allows the radioactive material to be distributed in the soft tissues, especially muscle tissue, exposing these tissues to the beta particles and gamma radiation and increasing cancer risk.
Iraqi government officials and commanders of the U.S.-led military coalition killed a proposal by Saudi Arabia for a Muslim peacekeeping force in Iraq, the White House said Monday, citing concerns over who would be in charge. Responding to reports in two newspapers, spokesman Scott McClellan said the interim Iraqi government in Baghdad had "some real concerns" about having troops from a neighboring country inside Iraq. "The multinational force commanders also had some concerns about forces operating outside the chain of command," the White House spokesman said. Most of the multinational force commanders are Americans, as are the majority of forces. Newsday and the Los Angeles Times reported Monday that President Bush rebuffed what the newspapers called a plan that would have helped the United Nations organize elections in Iraq. Attributing the account to unidentified Saudi and Iraqi officials, Newsday said Crown Prince Abdullah and other Saudi leaders had lobbied Bush to approve the plan for a force of several hundred troops from Arab and Muslim countries to protect U.N. officials in Iraq.
I'll bet the UN workers on the ground are relieved.
Abdullah discussed the idea with Bush in a 10-minute telephone conversation July 18 after meeting with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Newsday said. The force would have been controlled by the United Nations instead of by U.S. commanders. The initiative died last month despite acceptance by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan because the Muslim and Arab countries refused to work under U.S. command, Newsday said. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Monday he did not know if there was ever a "concrete proposal" for a Muslim force to protect U.N. officials. He said the Saudis floated the idea with the U.S., Iraqi and other governments. "I think we said, 'We'll see what happens to it,'" Boucher said. "Certainly we are happy to discuss this with people, but I am not sure it ever got as far as saying that there was actually a group of troops ready to deploy under certain conditions or circumstances. "It never really got off the ground," he said.
Last June, the Security Council authorized a separate U.N. protection force and Annan said governments would be asked to make contributions to it. Postwar Iraqi officials have long been cool to the idea of Muslim troops from neighboring countries but are open to troops from Muslim countries in North Africa and probably would accept troops from Pakistan, as well.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
1:28:05 AM ||
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#1
Well all I can say is "ain't just too stinking bad."
I guess Iraq and the US couldn't see allowing troops from the bankrollers of foreign jahidi and a source of jahidi into Iraq to help stir the pot even more. Thanks but no thanks.
#2
As I recall, Saudi forces were found to be thoroughly infiltrated by Al Quada members and sympathizers. We don't need more of that kind of thing in Iraq, thenkyewveddymuch. Let them concentrate on cleaning their own houses, before they dirty ours.
#3
Incredibly stupid idea. Perfect response. This is the third or fourth time this shit has come up - Jordan made such an offer a month or so ago, just after a couple of their UN "contributions" went apeshit and murdered some unarmed US troops in Bosnia - shouting "Allahu Ackbar". Never heard how "The Hashemite King" resolved that little mistake, come to think of it. Stupidity must move in circles, since it gets repeated so often. The good thing is that Allawi isn't stupid.
#5
CP Abudllah has never been a friend of the US, or any non-Islamic govt for that matter. Over the past years and most recently in the "terrorist" attacks on Western residential and office facilities in the Kingdom, there were nearly direct ties back to SANG units (weapons, vehicles and uniforms-guard rosters, etc).
Ahmed: We are always accused of not helping our Arab brethren in trouble.
Mahmoud: True.
Ahmed: We should change this perception.
Mahmoud: How.
Ahmed: We'll offer to intervene in Iraq to protect UN officials.
Mahmoud: Err....
Ahmed: Don't worry, the Americans will never accept the proposal.
Mahmoud: How so?
Ahmed: Because we'll stress that we will not accept US command over our forces. They wont want us to come in under those conditions. They'll reject the proposal.
Mahmoud: And next time we are criticised for not helping our Arab brethren we can point out that we tried but were rejected!
Ahmed: You catch on fast, Mahmoud.
Found via Belmont Club and Blackfive:
... 82 buried bunkers, each 20-metres long, housed thousands of Soviet FROG missiles (one step down from Scud missiles), and every variety of rocket and mortar shells. ... Some of the FROG missiles were still in their original cases. Some heaped in the open. Some stacked to the roof in the unlocked, open bunkers. Much of the ordnance had warheads removed to collect the explosive for homemade bombs -- or for blasting at a nearby quarry. "Unbelievable!" was Maj. Brian Hynes' reaction when he saw them. "We (troops of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)) have been here some two years, and no one knew this was at our back door. Unbelievable."
Many of the rockets, missiles and shells had been pried open for the explosives, which are used peacefully to blast mountain rock into gravel, and by those who want to make bombs that disrupt Kabul. ... Littered with burned out Soviet military vehicles, the whole area is a junk pile strewn with every sort of live ammunition, fuses, unexploded shells, rockets, etc., all supposedly under the authority of Belgian troops (at the moment), who ignored it. Wretchard's Comments:
Somehow I think someone missed the point. There is probably some perfectly plausible reason why a Swedish UN functionary, a French major and a German Colonel -- one civilian, two officers, three nationalities, none of who would be in the same chain of command -- should show up at precisely the moment a Canadian officer discovers a large number of surface to surface missiles lying around unguarded, but it escapes me.
My sister suggested that they were hoping not to interfere with the new snack concession.
Posted by: Phil Fraering ||
10/19/2004
1:26:48 PM ||
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#1
ROFLMAO!!! This, assuming any news agencies pick it up, could be hysterically funny. Wretchard's asking the right question, alright! H00t!
The National Assembly on Monday passed the anti-terrorism bill and the contempt of court bill after the opposition walked out of the house in protest against the president's uniform. Opposition members chanted slogans before their walkout. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, who was in his chamber during the opposition's protest, came to the house after the walkout. A small number of treasury members, who were left in the house after the opposition's walkout, adopted the two bills, one to regulate the exercise of powers of courts to punish for contempt of court and the other amends the Anti-Terrorism Act 2004 by voice vote.
PESHAWAR, Oct 18: Afghan President Hamid Karzai continued to maintain his lead over his rival candidates in the presidential elections. However, his overall gain shrank to a little over 60 per cent in the 21 per cent votes counted till Monday.
According to preliminary results posted on a website of Joint Electoral Management Body of Afghanistan, of the total 1,682,090 votes counted by 18:13 Afghanistan's Time, Mr Karzai had polled 1,030,447 votes, that is 61.3% of the total valid votes. Though still comfortably placed to win the required over 50 per cent votes, Mr Karzai's overall lead has dropped from the previous 79 per cent last week against his close rival and former cabinet colleague, Younus Qanooni.
So far 20.9% of the votes have been counted. Mr Qanooni was trailing way behind with 315,672 votes polled in favour or 18.8%. Uzbek warlord Rashid Dostum was trailing at third position with 139,480 votes or 8.3% of the total votes counted so far.
The link has numbers for each of the candidates, if you're that much of a political junkie.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
12:54:53 AM ||
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#1
This is so exciting :-) I wonder whose tally will be finished first: U.S. or Afghanistan.
IRAQI BORDER POLICE ARRESTED 142 INFILTRATORS COMING FROM IRAN LAST WEEK. THE INFILTRATORS WERE OF DIVERSE NATIONALITIES, INCLUDING AFGHANIS, IRANIANS, AND PAKISTANIS, AND CARRIED WEAPONS AND DRUGS, BUT NO DOCUMENTS. (AL-ZAMAN, BAGHDAD, 10/19/04)
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
12:52:43 PM ||
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#1
And, with any luck, they are all singing like birds...at least one octave higher.
Maybe they will be able to organize a Vienna Boys Choir for infiltrators.
Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi announced plans Monday to extend a cash-for-weapons program for Shiite fighters in Baghdad's Sadr City to cities nationwide in an attempt to disarm the country. The announcement of plans to extend the weapons-for-cash program came as fresh violence erupted in Baghdad and Mosul. The government launched the program in Sadr City as part of a deal to end weeks of fighting in the Shiite district of Baghdad and has twice extended the deadline for fighters to hand in their weapons. On Monday, Allawi told the National Council, a government oversight body, that the program is going so well he wants to extend it to the rest of Iraq. ``The government is determined to disarm cities and neighborhoods because our forces are now ready to fight terrorists and there's no justification for people to keep weapons at home,'' Allawi said.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
12:52:19 AM ||
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#1
how many more damaged RPG launchers and long guns does Allawi want to buy so that the $$ can be used to purchased new ones.
#5
Oh, so youre not going on real info about whats being turned in, what gets in across the borders, what the real weapons situation in Iraq is. Its just a knee jerk response to something that sounds like liberal domestic policy. Gotcha. On to the next topic.
#6
Its just a knee jerk response to something that sounds like liberal domestic policy.
Given the fact that it doesn't work here in the U.S., where our citizens no doubt have a lot more integrity and honor than Iraqi insurgents, a similar result in Iraq to a similar policy is not an unreasonable expectation.
"We knew there would be thousands, but it's a staggering amount when you see it. We are digging ammunitions out of areas on a day-to-day basis, it's absolutely amazing," said Major General Peter Chiarelli, head of the First Cavalry Division, in charge of security in Baghdad.
The amount of arms turned in has gained serious momentum since Friday, he said, on what was originally meant to be the last day of the arms-for-cash programme that has buoyed hopes for a peaceful end to months of fighting in the Shiite slum of Sadr City.
Prime Minister Iyad Allawi announced Monday an extension of the arms buyback in the impoverished Shiite district until Thursday.
"The Sadr bureau told us that there's been a thousand IEDs (homemade bombs) turned in," Chiarelli said.
Chiarelli touted the bounty of rockets, artillery shells and mortars being hauled in, as it made the squalid slum, where US troops and Sadr's men have battled for months, much safer.
#8
1. In the US the weapons being turned in are mainly small arms, which are easy to reacquire. The weapons of concern in Iraq are NOT side arms, or even Kalishnikovs, which are ubiquitous, but RPGs, mortars, etc things which we are attempting to stop from being present in the country. If we are watching the borders well, they supply of replacements should dry up.
2. Its not a question of honor, but of interest. Many of the "insurgents" are part timers, casuals, who may be willing to turn from the insurgency. And if they are no longer insurgents, they have no reason to want heavy weapons,while small arms probably remain useful in an American slum
3. Do you really think drug dealers, etc necessarily have more honor and integrity than Iraqis, even Sadrist insurgents?
#9
And what does that prove? Unless the country can be sealed off so that nothing contraband gets in (not an easy thing to do, apparently) and every known cache of weapons is seized and carted off by the proper personnel, how can anyone know that there isn't more coming in or being dug up to replace what's being turned in?
What's more, those arms don't fire themselves; the users are what sets them off. Without accounting for the people behind the triggers (leaving them in place to wait for a more opportune time to scramble the mix once again instead of taking them out permanently), how is there real, long-term security? I suppose a good indicator would be to see what happens after this bombs-and-bullets-for-cash program is done - do attacks on coalition forces, Iraqi police and their recruits, and innocent bystanders drop off sharply? If this happens, maybe it's worth something. If it doesn't, well.......I sure as hell won't be holding my breath.
There's not much of a reason to put any faith in human goodwill in that part of the world where the enemy (terrorists, rebels, insurgents, or whatever you wish to call them) is concerned. It's only another weakness with which to use against us and our allies.
#10
If we are watching the borders well, they supply of replacements should dry up.
Haaahahahaha, you're kidding, right?
Its not a question of honor, but of interest. Many of the "insurgents" are part timers, casuals, who may be willing to turn from the insurgency. And if they are no longer insurgents, they have no reason to want heavy weapons,..
That "interest" can easily change with the direction of the winds. Their interest != the interest of the country as a whole. If it were, the current situation would likely look, feel, and be much different.
Do you really think drug dealers, etc necessarily have more honor and integrity than Iraqis, even Sadrist insurgents?
Drug dealers are not likely to turn in their weapons for cash, not when more cash can be had above and beyond a meager little payout by simply plying their trade and ignoring silly little inducements like a guns-for-cash scheme. Rebels in Iraq can turn in RPGs, mortars, or whatever for cash, then go dig up some more someplace else. As a result, Ta Daaah! They end up with cash AND weapons!
#3
How many times do we have to say it-as long as Palestinians help and adore suicide bombers, they scratch out sympathy for their plight in the US. Clean up your act, Palestine.
#4
Jules - their "plight" is of their own making (with help from their brother Arabs).
Even if they were to clean up their act, I'd still have zero sympathy.
When they learn to love their children more than they hate Jews, they will have peace. And with peace comes the opportunity for prosperity.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 13:35
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The agency said that despite the appeal, the international community has not met UNRWA's financial needs over the last few years.[snip] So far, 43 percent of the $209 million required for 2004 has been obtained.
The world has noticed. The Palestinians may continue to get verbal support, but they've already lost considerable real support. I suspect that between the decrease of official UNRWA donations on the one hand, the cut-off of monies from Saddam Hussein on the other hand, and the shut-down of so many Muslim charities on the third hand, real financial support for the Palestinians has dropped by something like 75%.
#6
Things are getting better, securitywise, in Israel because the Paleos source of cash is drying up. The UN will just set things back. Actions--->consequences thing. If Kofi can cough up $200 million, he ought to do something about Darfur besides talk about it over lunch.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 13:37
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#7
Nope. Absolutley nothing registering on the sympathy meter.
Why doesn't Annon just reach into his pocket and give back some of the money he stole from the UN oil for food program??
They still think they can play the sympathy card and get away with it - I think too many people have seen the 9/11 celebratory videos, the UN ambulances being used to ferry gunmen, the photographers standing next to Hamas pricks and Arafats bloody red binder still hasn't moved!
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
10/19/2004 15:19
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#14
bet the fuckwit mainland europe appeasers will stuff thier pockets with fresh jihadi funds, kill arafat and his red binder of doom!
Posted by: Shep UK ||
10/19/2004 16:00
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#15
I say that Arafish and Co get not even a chance of funding until some independent and reputable auditor, say Arthur Anderson Co. goes over the Red File and publishes a report of its findings for potential donors.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 16:22
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#16
Maybe Kofi can Trick or Treat for UNICEF this year.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 18:26
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#17
Alaska Paul, your sense of humor is so dry are you sure you're not British? Arthur Anderson might be the only company who could make the books add to what Arafat wants, but their credibility died with the book-cooking of the Clinton 90's.
#18
Part of me is. Me great-great grandmother was named Lillie Coolie and came from England. When I was a kid of 9 yr I memorized Bernard Miles' monologue Over the Gate. And don't forget Billy and Toggie. Also Me and Old Charlie. Always liked that kind of humour.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 21:29
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#19
bet you still know them too... ;-)
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 21:47
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I 'ear ole Billy Collets dead, across at Ivinghoe, Aston. Last Friday 'e died. I reckon they'll miss 'im over there. They don't grow 'em like ole Billy every day.'E cut a 'ole in 'is gas mask so 'e could get 'is pipe through.
One of my favorite parts.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 21:51
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The Communist Party of India-Maoist and Janashakti Naxalites raised the hackles of the state government by demanding the distribution of 27,000 acres of prime land in and around Hyderabad presently "encroached upon or occupied" by business houses, IT firms, pharma companies, real estate developers, film producers and other "vested interests." On the third day of the peace talks with the government representatives here on Sunday, the CPI-Maoist and Janshakti leaders furnished a list of 43 influential individuals and firms which own hundreds of acres of land on the outskirts of the twin cities of Hyderabad-Secunderabad.
They claimed that these lands are agricultural lands "encroached" upon with patronage extended by successive governments in the past. The list was released to the media on Sunday night. They wanted the government to ensure that all "big land grabbers or occupiers" vacated these lands so that these could be distributed to the landless poor. They pointed out that most of the land allotments were made during the nine-year rule of former Chief Minister N. Chandrababu Naidu. They asked the government to either take over these lands or collect market value from them since they were not service-oriented but were only making profits from the lands. If there is no response from the government, the Naxalite parties will announce their plan of action. The list reads like a who's who of persons/firms in the field of real estate, film industry, information technology etc. It is meant to be a symbolic attack against "neo-gentry" which was dictating terms to the government with its political clout.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
12:37:20 PM ||
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Deutsche Presse-Agentur
Kuwait's Minister of Information Mohammed Abu Al-Hassan has suspended a weekly newspaper for three months because of political content it published, newspapers reported yesterday. Kuwait's Ministry of Information decided to suspend the weekly because it violated a provision of its license to publish only social and cultural news and not political news, Abu Al-Hassan was quoted by Al-Siyassa newspaper as saying.
If Buyabes were told to officially halt publishing for three months, it would be the second time the state has punished him for material he has written in the media. In 2002 Kuwait's Ministry of Information closed his newspaper, Al-Democratia, because of controversial political stories it published, he said. Al-Shaab's third, and latest issue featured a cover story about a questionable Ministry of Defense spare parts contract for the Russian-made infantry fighting vehicle, BMP-2. Also in its second issue, Al-Shaab featured a cover story about the spare parts contract.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
12:35:01 PM ||
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#5
Wearing an overly large amount of aluminum oxide based antipersperent can derail a surpise metre especially if it's digital. I wear an olde fashioned analog SM forged from a 1 cubic inch block of steel made from the USS Huntley's safe. I understand good results are also readily available from SMs made from recycled Maginot Line turrents.
#6
USS Housatonic dammit! Not Hunley! Never use Hunley metal in a SM, it would be nutz. Like using salvaged steel from the Kaisers fleet at Scapa Flow, no good. Sorry.
Reuters ⢠Agence France Presse
Jailed Sudanese Islamist Hassan Turabi will face charges in court for trying to topple the government, a high-level security source said yesterday. Turabi, formerly a close ally to President Omar Hassan Bashir, was arrested at the end of March this year after his party was loosely linked to a plot by a group of military officers to topple the government. He was later moved into a safe house outside Khartoum but went back to Kobar prison in Khartoum last month after the government said his opposition Popular Congress party had conspired to assassinate top leaders and blow up strategic places in Khartoum on Sept. 24.
The sources said the security services had now completed the investigation into the plot and would be presenting the case to the courts. "We are going to take them to court. We have finished our investigation and the police are now trying to get the case in front of the court for more than 60 of them," the source said. "Turabi, he's now also inside the case." The source said all would face charges of trying to topple the government. "There's strong evidence against his people. He will also stand in front of the court," the source added. The government has said it would take legal action against the party, which could lead to it being banned.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
12:30:06 PM ||
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"Y'see, this thing with the Merkins, that ain't workin' out. They got this idea — Allan knows where! — that Yasser's a congenital liar and a crook. So we should dump the Merkins and deal with the Brits, 'cuz they're so much more reasonable and honest and they ain't caught on yet."
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
12:27:17 PM ||
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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - People who cast provisional ballots at the wrong precinct are not entitled to have their votes counted, the Florida Supreme Court ruled Monday, rejecting an argument by labor unions that the rule wrongly disenfranchises voters. In an unanimous ruling, the court said the law clearly states provisional ballots must be counted only if the person was entitled to vote "at the precinct," and that the constitution gives the Legislature the authority to dictate voting rules.
Under Florida law, if voters show up at a polling place but officials there have no record they are registered, they are given provisional ballots. Those ballots are held until officials determine if the voters were entitled to vote at that precinct and had not already cast ballots. If they should have been allowed to vote at that precinct, the ballots count; if not, they are thrown out.
A group of labor unions sued over the ballot law, saying it unconstitutionally disenfranchised voters who are door knob stoopid may not know their polling place. They argued that many people have new polling places because of redistricting, may have moved, or may have been displaced by a hurricane. The court disagreed, saying that requiring provisional voters vote at the correct precinct is no more unreasonable than requiring that everyone else vote at the right polling place.
The Florida court's ruling contradicted a ruling last week by a federal judge in Ohio. U.S. District Judge James Carr blocked a directive requiring poll workers to send voters to their correct precinct, ruling that Ohio voters can cast provisional ballots as long as they are in the county where they are registered. Ohio's secretary of state is appealing.
Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Florida, which supported the plaintiffs in the Florida case, said the precinct requirement is a remnant of an outdated system. "This is like saying you can only do your banking in this building downtown," Simon said. "What we're seeing here is the difficulty of trying to drag Florida kicking and screaming out of the horse and buggy era."
By why bother going to the legislature to change the law when you can cast about for a sympathetic judge?
Meanwhile, a state judge in Colorado on Monday upheld a new rule requiring that voters produce identification before being allowed to vote. District Judge Morris B. Hoffman said the voter identification requirement serves a valid purpose, and Congress has insisted states crack down on voter fraud.
Also Monday, Hoffman overturned a rule that prevented voters who request provisional ballots on Election Day from voting if they had earlier requested an absentee ballot. Hoffman ruled those voters may cast provisional ballots at their precincts if they swear they did not turn in the absentee ballot. Before counting the provisional ballot, election officials would have to confirm that the person had indeed voted legally.
Pete Maysmith, program director of the plaintiff public interest group Common Cause, said he was disappointed by the ID ruling, which he warned could reduce voter turnout, but had not decided whether to appeal. He called the absentee-ballot ruling "a terrific victory" that will allow more Coloradans to vote more than once.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
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#1
A freeking amazing why would showing a valid ID be a problem? How the hell can you live in modern society without one?
Let me see I need to find out out were I am supposed to go and vote I can call the registrar and get the info over the phone. DUH.
The only people worried about this crap want to steal an election. The stuffing of the balot boxes by the Dems has already started. George Sorros is footing the bill.
#4
True eLarson and it will also tend to suppress the vote among those who are dead, those who regularly vote in multiple precints, and other similar folks.
#5
Any act of voter fraud should be considered treason and punished with death. It is an act after all, designed to damage our country in a time of war. Is there any act of rebellion more destructive without the use of arms than voter fraud? No. Now, doing this would of course, eliminate the entire Democratic party, but I can live with that.
#6
Lots of voters don't drive, thus don't have photo ID driver's licenses. But my state, and I would guess all others, do provide for you to go to the DMV and get a plain old photo ID. Of course you have to submit some documents proving you are who you say you are.
This seem to a real barrier for some people, not that I have an ounce of sympathy. If they can't haul fat ass down to DMV then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They use the day to exchange tips on welfare hustles and scams but can't figure out how to get valid photo ID?? The latest scam in Florida is all the phony hurricane claims paid out to the po' via FEMA. Such as claiming water damage in your dwelling and damage to your beat up old junker was caused by falling tree limbs.
#7
Pete Maysmith, program director of the plaintiff public interest group Common Cause, said he was disappointed by the ID ruling, which he warned could reduce voter turnout
The Colorado DMV also issues photo IDs (but not to illegal aliens) thus reducing "voter" turnout.
Thank you Judge Hoffman!
Posted by: Football Fan ||
10/19/2004 11:04
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#6 Dennis W: "This seem to a real barrier for some people, not that I have an ounce of sympathy. If they can't haul fat ass down to DMV then they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They use the day to exchange tips on welfare hustles and scams but can't figure out how to get valid photo ID??"
See http://boortz.com for more on your concept. Neal Boortz (Libertarian voting for Bush this year/AM radio show host in Atlanta) has a good point on this. He says that anyone gaining financial benefits from living off the gov't dime should not be allowed to vote and only those who pay taxes (fund the welfare recipients) should be able to vote...like allowing those who pay the bills decide where the money goes vs. those who get "free" benefits take what they get. Good insight. He's also argued for allowing everyone to vote once and then giving additional votes dependent on how much you pay in taxes (like 1 additional vote for every $10k you pay in federal taxes). Interesting concept and he cites the Constitution on this one (the Amendment only bars the gov't from keeping people from voting based upon race, religion or ethnicity). Maybe there should be a test (like "Who is you Federal Representative and who are your two Senators?") before allowing someone to vote. I don't know what the answer is to this problem, but when almost 50% of the population has NO Federal income tax liability at all...I don't know that they should be allowed to vote (they only vote for their self interest...not what's best for the nation).
Posted by: BA ||
10/19/2004 11:45
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#9
BA - I agree I think people on Welfare should not be allowed to vote. If you dont contribute you dont vote. Seniors (on Social security, pension, etc...) would be entitled to vote because they have already contributed.
And require people to register in person with valid picture id and proof of citizenship (Birth Certificate / passport / erc..). Unless they have a valid reason (confined to a bed, etc...).
#11
Lets see BA,according to your post THK's would be between 50,000 and 100,000 votes.That is some siriously flawed Democracy.Why don't we just use the"Starship Troopers"style of democracy.
#12
Raptor: I'm not saying those would be the specific numbers. And, it's just an idea on how to cut those who THRIVE off of my tax dollars from voting themselves MORE of my tax dollars. Read an interesting book on the tax situations in Colonial U.S....did you know that the Boston Tea Party was over a 2% import tax? Two percent! My how the founding fathers would flip over 30-40% taxes! And, BTW, it would be based upon Adjusted Gross Income, of which sKerry and his wife reported LESS than Dubya (who reported somewhere in the neighborhood of $200k or so...don't remember exact numbers).
Posted by: BA ||
10/19/2004 12:36
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#13
No representation without taxation.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 12:43
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#14
I would be all for the Starship Troopers method. Just make sure there aren't any big bugs OK.
#15
Mrs Davis - Damn good point. You dont pay - you dont play.
SPOD - I would go for a Starship Troopers approach too - or something like it.
I also think people should have to pay something (as in write out a check - no payroll withholding BS) for public school. Have it on a sliding scale or someting if you must but have the parents pay something so they value it.
Hell it would be worth it just to hear the Democrats howl....
FYI - The 'starship troopers' approach is that you have to 'earn' citizenship (and the right to vote) through actual civil service (as opposed to service at the charity of your choice) and/or service in the armed forces.
#16
Utterly ridiculous. THe polling places are open early and close late. And even if the election date inconveniences you, you can still vote early. My own city allows early voting between Oct 18 and Oct 29.
The only possible reason for one to complain about being required to vote where he lives is that it doesn't allow him to vote multiple times.
#19
A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it. -- Alexis de Tocqueville Or...the USA will cease to be great when a majority of the voting public realizes it can vote itself someone else's money. -- RN
Posted by: RN 2004-10-19 1:09:45 PM
I seem to recall something about the Romans voting themselves bread and circuses . . .
Posted by: Jame Retief ||
10/19/2004 13:26
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#20
Even the French lost their collective heads over cake.
#21
SPOD - Same here - schools are funded via property taxes. I just think if people had to actually write out a check for schools they would value them (and education) more.
Just as if people had to actually write a check for their federal taxes (and not rely on 'unseen' payroll withholding) they would pay more attention to what the feds are blowing it on...
#22
Folks, this voting session is going to become an absolute nightmare. The LLL and Dems will use EVERY incident as an opening to bottle this thing up in the courts. They are concerned that they cannot win, so in the spirit of the ends justifying the means, they will sabotage the Nov vote if there is a chance of their candidate losing.
The thing that I worry about is that the LLL will destroy the credibility of the voting process. This arguing about objecting to having to show IDs is just another tool of the LLL to skew the voting process. Hell, you cannot even get on a plane without a government ID.
The thing that really burns my ass is that NEITHER party in Congress has demanded auditing of voting rolls nationwide that could eliminate fraud. The message of the absolutely sloppy method of registering voters and the incompetence of many voting officials is a bad message to send to our young people.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 15:46
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#23
Would a mug shot count as "a state-issued photo ID?"
#24
"I'm too lazy to go down to the DMV and wait in line for an hour and get a free ID card. I'm also too stupid to figure out the directions to the polling place printed on the back of the sample ballot. Plus, standing in line for 30 minutes to vote is way too boring.
"But I am a concerned and involved citizen and My vote(s) should count."
Sure.
I actually vote on election day every time. It's just a 2-mile detour on the way to work and 5 minutes (primary) to 20 minutes (Presidential) to actually vote. The polls open at 0600 and I'm usually #001 or #002 (in 2000 I was #014). When I'm in line, I chat with the others (never about for whom we're voting) and just enjoy the common citizenship. The guy (or gal) next to Me could be a student or or an investment broker or a doctor or a Sargeant in the Air Force.
I would have no complains about proving My ID to vote. Heck, I have to show ID to pick up a package at the Post Office.
#25
A freeking amazing why would showing a valid ID be a problem?
It is illegal to ask for an ID in California...
On one of the few occasions I say we need FEDERAL INTERVENTION.
Congress could demand ID for all federal elections, but won't.
In California, the poll workers require the 1st person in line to visually inspect the ballot box, to be sure nothing is there, and then be a witness to it being locked...
I was #1 at the recall election, so it fell on ol' BigEd to look inside the box at LA County precinct 3850447. I commented, "All hanging chads cleaned out!" I could tell who was who - the Dems grunted, and the GOPs laughed under their breath. One of the poll workers, a neighbor, is a known GOP....
#26
Eric Holder is on TV for the DNC / Kerry folks right now telling how they will be in court regardless. They are talking for government by lawsuit. Talk about turning off the electorate.
No, they're talking about removing our last means of self-governance.
Posted by: Robert Crawford ||
10/19/2004 20:09
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#28
they're providing incentives to the Kausfiles' "landslide" voters. Many will be so turned off by the hijinx they'll vote for W (if it looks like he's winning in the polls) to avoid a legal squabble. As Hugh sez - they can't cheat if it's not close
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 21:22
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Deutsche Presse-Agentur
Britain's Muslim community is providing "considerable support" to counterterrorism agencies, the head of the London police, John Stevens, said yesterday.
Selling out the Boyz, are they? So, what else do you have to say?
Stevens spoke out against targeting any specific community in countering terrorism. There was "much talk of Islamophobia" he told newspaper editors at a conference in the northeastern English city of Newcastle.
"But, really, Lutherans and Unitarians are just as likely to cut people's heads off. Especially the Unitarians, damn them! You just don't hear about it as much..."
He called for distinction between "the actions of a minority and the beliefs of a majority".
"There's a distinct difference between those who believe in cutting off heads and those who actually do it..."
"It is vital to all of us that we maintain the confidence of British Muslims and we challenge every inaccurate perception," he said.
Ummm... I think he got that backward. Shouldn't it be British Moose limbs who should be trying their damnedest to to maintain the confidence of Britons?
Britain has a Muslim community numbering between 1.5 and 2 million. "I cannot give you details of the support that has been given by the Muslim community, but I can say we have had considerable support. That is why I will be running around to the mosques thanking them and encouraging them to give us more," Stevens said.
"Can't toss the bastards in jug unless you can find them, and you can't find them without help from the Mohammedans, 'cuz they regard the rest of us as infidels. So we have to be polite. For now."
Stevens, who as head of the Metropolitan Police coordinates national counterterrorist operations, drew criticism in March last year when he said a terror attack on London was "inevitable". He made the comment while sharing a platform with London Mayor Ken Livingstone, who added it would be "miraculous" if the British capital were to escape attack. The two were speaking soon after the Madrid train bombing. Stevens said that since his comments with Livingstone, calls from the public regarding terrorism had risen from 20 a day to almost 200.
Guess he got people's attention...
The Metropolitan Police had scored successes in the fight against terrorism but could not publicize its achievements, he said. "I would like to climb up Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square and tell the world about our successes, but we cannot do it. It will affect trials taking place at the moment and those taking place in the future," he said. Stevens, who retires in January, defended recent legislation that allows terrorist suspects to be held for up to two weeks without being formally charged. "If it was not for the new legislation, we would not have had the successes we have had, and London would not be as safe," he said. "A balance needs to be struck between allowing people their own individual rights and public safety and it is a massively difficult equation to get right," he said.
Posted by: Fred ||
10/19/2004
12:18:55 PM ||
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#1
Some signs they may realise what they've got to lose.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 12:38
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#2
I understand "considerable support" as being at best one notch above "no support at all." Maybe chatting a bit while sipping a glass of mint tea?
What I'd like to hear is something like this: "the arrest and indictment of XYZ was made possible by the testimonies of members of mosque ABC" and "the terrorist supporters at the fake charity ABC have been caught thanks to the evidence volunteered by charity DEF".
#3
I'll believe it when I see it. I still believe we're going to have suicide attacks in this country, and they are not going to be carried out by Catholics, Quakers or Jews.
He *has* to say they've had 'considerable support' - it's the PC state we live in I'm afraid.
Posted by: Tony (UK) ||
10/19/2004 16:00
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From Mail and Guardian Online
Masked men torched a Roman Catholic church in Zanzibar over the weekend, the third such attack in a week in the predominantly Muslim Indian Ocean archipelago, a church leader said on Monday. Suspicions fell on Islamic extremists, ...
It wasn't the Esquimaux ...
... highlighting rising Islamic militancy and growing political tensions as Zanzibar prepares for what is expected to be its most hotly contested presidential and legislative elections since the violent overthrow of the Omani Sultan in 1964.
Reverend Vincent Shiyo, a Roman Catholic priest, said four masked men torched his church on Saturday night in Mchangani, 15km from the centre of Unguja, the main island in the semi-autonomous archipelago off the coast of Tanzania. No one was injured in the attack that destroyed the outreach parish church, Shiyo said. The attack occurred three days after unknown assailants set fire to a Lutheran church and demolished the wall of another Roman Catholic church.
Police are investigating the attacks, but no one has been arrested, regional police chief Hamad Issa said. "What is sad is that there is no official condemnation of the attacks," Shiyo said. "Both the police and government officials appear reluctant to condemn attacks on Christians."
In April, three Roman Catholic churches and a school van were attacked with explosive devices in Zanzibar. In the same month, suspected Islamic militants set off explosive devices targeting a local pub, homes of government officials and Christian and pro-government Muslim leaders. "The Muslim fundamentalists are angry at the social services that the church extends to all without discrimination," Shiyo said. ....
Boy howdy that's got to make a good Moose-limb mad.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004
12:18:50 AM ||
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Face it. Islamofascists love destruction and death. Because that's what their "prophet" taught them.
#2
Another example of the worldwide persecution of Muslims. Poor souls.
Posted by: Howard UK ||
10/19/2004 6:08
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#3
"The Muslim fundamentalists are angry at the social services that the church extends to all without discrimination," Shiyo said. ....
Unlike in muslim practice where the money goes to muslims first because they are better and more deserving people for simply being muslims. Then whatever is left over if anything might then it might be given to muslims working to convert the infidel which is something that in muslim thought is more important than just feeding people regardless of religion.
This is why you see absolutely no international muslim charities working among the poor of all nations like you see Western charities doing. Where do the largest muslim charities work? Among muslims first and foremost.
#6
Peggy, a little correction: muslim charities go to arab muslims first - since they are the holiest muslims. Then other muslims...
As for infidels: the priority goes to those who are killling, raping, and murdering infidels first then those who might try to convert them. Nothing goes to help non-muslims except to get them into a position of trust so you can kill them.
#3
The military mind-set âis based on the assumption that every Palestinian is a potential suicide bomber and every home a potential base for attack.â Sounds like sound military strategery. Amen Mojo! I aint weeping for the Paleos.
EFL
Mary Poppins. Jeffrey Dahmer. Janet Jackson. Chad Staton. Defiance County elections officials were confident the first three hadn't moved to their small community. But the fourth one lived there, and - in exchange for crack cocaine - tried to falsely submit the first three names and more than 100 others onto the county's voter registration rolls, police said. Now Mr. Staton, 22, of Defiance, faces a felony charge of false registration in a case that has quickly gained national attention as part of a hotly contested presidential battle that's attracted a flurry of new voter registrations across the country - and a flurry of complaints of voter registration fraud.
Defiance County Sheriff David Westrick said that Mr. Staton was working on behalf of a Toledo woman, Georgianne Pitts, to register new voters. She, in turn, was working on behalf of the NAACP National Voter Fund, which was formed by the NAACP in 2000 to register new voters. Sheriff Westrick said that Pitts, 41, of Toledo, admitted she gave Mr. Staton crack cocaine in lieu of cash for supplying her with completed voter registration forms. The sheriff declined to say how much crack cocaine Pitts supplied Mr. Staton, or to say whether Pitts knew that the forms Mr. Staton gave her were falsified. More at Link
#1
Dunno 'bout that meth lab-- you might have to wait til next week before the Donks get that desperate-- but right now they're handing out pill boxes with the Kerry/Edwards logo on them; perfect place to keep your stash. (Link via Drudge)
Posted by: Dave D. ||
10/19/2004 13:31
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A Pakistani man has been sentenced to life imprisonment for burning a copy of the Koran. A court in Lahore found Mehdi Hassan, 36, guilty under Pakistani laws covering offences against Islam, the prophet Mohammed or the Koran. The defendant had denied the charge, which can carry the death penalty, saying the case had arisen from a property dispute. .... Additional sessions court judge Anwar Chaudhry said the prosecution "had proven its case". Hassan was detained in December 2001 after a complaint by a councillor in eastern Lahore. He was accused of burning a copy of the Koran in his yard.
Is this one different than the one yesterday with the stooopid Christian burning a Koran?
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004
12:03:22 AM ||
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The unholy koran makes perfectly good toilet paper.
#2
Or maybe he used it for kindling for a barbecue. With all the crap in it, especially because it was a 'stupid' edition, it probably took a long time to burn. Ideal.
#4
Is this one different than the one yesterday with the stooopid Christian burning a Koran?
This was about an entirely different incident, where somebody was sentenced to 25 years for tearing up a leaflet that included stupid verses from the stupid Koran.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 8:40
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#5
Whitecollar, I think Allan and Mo were -ahem- engaged on other activities....
Amidst growing pressure to check underworld don Dawood Ibrahim who has been declared 'Specially Designated Global Terrorist' (SDGT) by the US, his ISI masters in Pakistan have directed him to carry out attacks in India or support would be extended to a new group led by his detractors. According to intelligence inputs and statements of some underworld members arrested in the country recently, his masters in Karachi have asked Dawood to set his house in order and step up violent attacks in India. ISI has already readied a group led by Anwar, brother of Chota Shakeel, comprising Syed Muzzafar alias Munna Jhingda and Yusuf Ghodrawala to substitute Dawood, official sources said quoting the reports. While Anwar is in Dubai, the other two shuttle between Thailand and Pakistan. The sources said that the new group, in order to prove its credentials to their masters could carry out some attacks in Mumbai.
Dawood, meanwhile, has made a separate base in another Gulf country besides Dubai and also purchased shares in a super market chain, the sources said adding that he was helped by brother of a senior Pakistani politician in doing so. Another factor worrying Dawood is that his younger brother Humayun's name has been linked with the bombing of a Shiite mosque in Karachi in May this year, the sources said. Following this, a series of meetings were held between Dawood and his handlers in ISI during which the underworld don was conveyed clearly to set his house in order. Chota Shakeel, who is believed to have been distancing himself from Dawood, has also agreed to support the substitute group, in case ISI decided to dump Dawood, the sources said.
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
10/19/2004
1:15:30 AM ||
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#1
Is his wife's name "Bondie"?
I just had to ask.
Prime Minister General Khin Nyunt has been placed under "protective custody" in what appears to be a purge of the country's much-feared Military Intelligence (MI), military sources said on Tuesday. Khin Nyunt, who is also MI chief, was put under custody on Monday.
Oh boy, a Deep Laid Plot!
Plumb nefarious...
The ruling military regime recently launched a purge of the MI personnel that started in Muse, the Shan State. Several MI officers have been tried on corruption charges and summarily handed down prison terms of 20 years by military courts, sources in Yangon confirmed. Khin Nyunt, once deemed among the country's most powerful generals in determining foreign policy, was recently "kicked upstairs" to the post of prime minister. Senior General Than Shwe, the regime's head, has long had conflicts with Khin Nyunt. In neighbouring Thailand, Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra confirmed he had heard rumours of a "conflict" within the Myanmar military.Â
I love it when they eat their own.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
1:13:21 AM ||
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#1
I used the Thai/Burma border crossings (approx 1 year ago) to renew my Thai visa several times - and I would bet that every 2nd or 3rd expat crossing, which cost 250 baht (about $5-$6 USD) for a Burma "day pass" (not a small amount there), was "lost" or "unrecorded" - that's the easiest place to snarf up hard currency without it showing up easily, so you know corruption abounds. There were 50-100 obvious Westerners doing this every day I did it. Thailand clamped down on this game starting about 7 months ago declaring the "quickie" 30-day visa game at border crossings must stop - it's why I left and came back to the US. Due to this, I'm sure there are Burmese military who've turned to more visible avenues of corruption - and are getting caught in greater numbers.
From the South Asia Analysis Group. EFL
The Taliban rule in Afghanistan from 1994 to October 2001, particularly after it captured Kabul in September, 1996, saw the large-scale massacre of the Shias belonging to the Hazara tribe, carried out by Al Qaeda and Pakistan's Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) and its militant wing, the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LEJ). Angered over this, the Shia community refrained from participating in large numbers in the anti-US demonstrations which were organised in different parts of Pakistan by the Sunni religious organisations in protest against the US military strikes against Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan post-9/11. Since the beginning of 2003, there have been indications that sections of the Shias have been doing their own hunt for Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, his No. 2. It was reported that the arrest of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM), who had allegedly orchestrated the 9/11 terrorist strikes in the US, at Rawalpindi in March 2003, was made possible by intelligence provided by some Shias in Quetta, Balochistan, where he was living before fleeing to Rawalpindi. The SSP and the LEJ retaliated by massacring a large number of Shias of the Hazara community in the Quetta area in July, 2003.
The Shias retaliated by helping the Pakistani authorities in the arrest of Massob Arooshi, described as the nephew of KSM, on June 13, 2004, following an unsuccessful attempt to kill the Corps Commander of Karachi on June 10, 2004. According to the "Daily Times", the presitgious daily of Lahore, a Shia cleric from Gilgit working in Karachi tipped off the police about the presence of Arooshi in the house of Abbas Khan. The paper said that it was another Shia cleric, who had tipped off the Police in March last year about the presence of KSM in Rawalpindi. The SSP and the LEJ retaliated against the Shias through a suicide bombing at a Shia place of worship in Sialkot in Punjab on October 1, 2004, resulting in the death of 30 Shias. The Shias retaliated on October 7, 2004, by attacking with a car bomb a religious function organised at Multan in Punjab by the Sunni members of the SSP and the LEJ to observe the first death anniversary of Azam Tariq, the head of the SSP, who was assassinated last year allegedly by a Shia gunman in Islamabad. Forty Sunnis were killed.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: Paul Moloney ||
10/19/2004
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#1
Its good to know that our guys have local partners in the hunt.
#2
The level of Al Qaeda's fanaticism is so extreme, they create enemies everywhere.
Posted by: V is for Victory ||
10/19/2004 7:58
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#3
Even the most die hard Islamist leader recognizes that AQ and their ilk are a threat to everyone (regardless of religion) that doesn't agree or at least support the AQ brand of radical Islam.
Self preservation is a strong motivator toward eliminating threats to your power and your life.
#4
The Shias started well by trying to work within the system when they can, with the radicals finally turning to illegal means when the Paki government proved unreliable and unsupportive. Seems to be the case in Iraq too: Bush Sr. screwed the pooch with them when he didn't send in the choppers when they revolted against Saddam.
hat tip to Glenn
Al Qaeda sort of evolved in Pakistan, where Arab money (mostly from Saudi Arabia), American weapons and Pakistani permission and organization, came together to form a support base for the "jihad" (holy war) against the Godless Soviet communists in Afghanistan. When the Russians got tired of fighting Afghans, and left in 1987, the Arab money and American weapons disappeared as well. Afghanistan quickly degenerated into civil war, and most of the Islamic radicals went home. There they found a hostile reception. Strong Islamic radical groups in Egypt were crushed. Osama bin Laden was driven out of Saudi Arabia. Islamic radicals were not welcome in any Islamic country.
Then things turned around in Afghanistan, when Pakistan had decided to use Islamic radicalism for their own ends. First Pakistan backed Islamic radicals intent on driving India out of Kashmir. Then Pakistan decided to end the Afghan civil war by getting behind a movement by Islamic conservatives. This was the Taliban. First formed in Pakistani refugee camps, and armed by Pakistan, the Taliban swept into Afghanistan and defeated all the other factions. The Afghan people were fed up with the warlords fighting over who would control the country, and saw the Taliban as heavily armed religious fanatics who were at least honest (in an Islamic way.) Snipped from a great article by Jim Dunnigan (see source). It sets out as clearly as possible how important Pakistan has been to the development of Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism in general (hat tip to Paul Moloney for making this clear to me a while ago). Know your enemy: the ISI.
Posted by: Spot ||
10/19/2004
10:51:10 AM ||
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good article. It makes clear what I think isn't necessarily clear to the general population. That AQ is not really supported by the leaders of Arab nations. It scares them because in it's quest for a caliphate, it threatens their own authority. Each guy wants his own kingdom, and unless he gets to be THE caliphate (which they can't all be) they are no longer interested in AQ other than what it can do to further their own, personal agenda and battles...like Pakistan's against Kashmir, Sadaams against the west, All Arabs against the jews, etc.
#2
There was a great article in the comments section of Belmont Club by John Loftus talking about the formation of Al Q saying that it stemmed from a confluence of the Mulsim Brotherhood in Egypt with the Nazis. They were then used by the Brits to control the Israeli terrs in Palestine. They then went to SA where they received the wonderful added influence of the Wahabi cult. The US then used them for the fight in Afghanistan. It is a fascinating piece.
Posted by: remote man ||
10/19/2004 19:14
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As Lyubov Rodionova flicks through her pictures, all showing the same young man in uniform, it becomes obvious these are not just family snaps. In one picture, his rifle is over his shoulder, in another it is in his hand, in a third he looks straight ahead with just a glimpse of a soldier's blue and white T-shirt -- but all have the same golden halo around his head. This is her son Yevgeny. The 19-year-old was murdered in Chechnya in 1996, but his legend lives on, and many Russians are pressing the Russian Orthodox Church to canonize him as a saint, martyred in a holy war against Islam. "Not only did Yevgeny not betray his faith, he also refused to betray his army. He refused to sell out his friends," said Rodionova, who lives alone in this town outside Moscow.
He was kidnapped and held in a cellar for months. Rodionova said his captors had told her they gave him the choice of adopting Islam and joining them, or death. He refused to relinquish his Christian faith and was beheaded and buried in an unmarked grave. Yevgeny is one of thousands of soldiers killed in Chechnya, but his bravery and religious faith under pressure has inspired many Russians tired of the war. At least 26 churches from Siberia to the Ukrainian border now have an icon of the handsome, dark-haired young man, who was a conscript in the border guards before his death. Several marchers held his icon aloft in a rally against terror near Red Square on Sept. 7, shortly after the Beslan school tragedy. "Yevgeny is famous. He is a bright example. Maybe it is because of his youth, and he reminds people of David and Goliath," said Orthodox priest Father Dmitry, the head of the Moscow Patriarchate's department for the armed forces. I've got to say that the Russians suprise me every day I learn more about them.
Posted by: Old Fogey ||
10/19/2004
10:50:10 AM ||
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I don't believe in Canonization or Sainthood, but it is evident that this young man is very much deserving of his countrymen's admiration. Appreciation for those who stand in harm's way for you is a key marker for a civilization intent on surviving.
#4
In spite of not being Catholic, much less RO, this young man is a martyr for the Gospel. He stands in Paradise now learning the mysteries of God from the great souls of past ages . . . Peter, Paul, & the prophets of old.
I would be proud to name this man among my brothers in arms.
Posted by: Jame Retief ||
10/19/2004 13:41
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#5
Russians are thoroughly secular. The communists did their work well (and were aided in this by the corruption of the Orthodox Church).
The flip side of this materialist viewpoint is that Russians have no illusions about the possiblity of appeasing the jihadists. They will support without hesitation an unrelenting effort to crush the jihadists wherever they can be found, and this bodes well for our post-Beslan relationship with Russia.
#6
Huh. The story takes me back to the old Anglo-Saxon chronicles of saint's deaths. Very, very, similar.
1. Fight for the faith.
2. Get captured in a hopeless cause.
3. Bleed lots, get flayed, skewered, shot.
4. Refuse to renounce the faith until death.
5. (Perform miracles?) While alive, or posthumously.
That the tradition is still alive in something near its original form in the Greek Orthodox rite makes me wonder if the peasant folk of Russia are completely secular.
#7
There are no more "peasants" in Russia--certainly not in Moscow or the other big cities.
Though there are many extraordinarily beautiful churches in Russia that are now being restored (in many cases with the support of rather dubious money), the fact remains that the vast majority of those who attend services are aging or aged babushki (grannies).
#8
Russia, of course, with its huge land area, remains a very metropolitan nation, with the vast majority of its (urban, professional, definitely NON-AGRARIAN)populace concentrated in urban cities?
Putin gets it, when will the MSM "get it"?
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday that terrorists are aiming to derail U.S. President George W. Bush's chances at re-election through their attacks in Iraq. "I consider the activities of terrorists in Iraq are not as much aimed at coalition forces but more personally against President Bush," Putin said at a news conference after a regional summit in the Tajik capital, Dushanbe. "International terrorism has as its goal to prevent the election of President Bush to a second term," he said. "If they achieve that goal, then that will give international terrorism a new impulse and extra power." Tells you a little something about his opinion on a Kerry presidency, doesn't it?
Posted by: OldSpook ||
10/19/2004
10:44:47 AM ||
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The Umatilla Chemical Depot began destroying liquid nerve agent over the weekend, officials said Monday. Nearly 560 gallons of the nerve gas known as GB agent were incinerated over 11 hours on Sunday, said Don Barclay, project manager. The depot began destroying rockets carrying the nerve gas last month, but the liquid nerve agent was stored until plant operators had a minimum of 500 gallons. "The beginning of agent feed to the liquid incinerator is a major milestone," said Doug Hamrick, general manager of the disposal facility. "It represents the final destruction step of the agent from the rockets previously destroyed in the deactivation furnace." The depot has about 12 percent of the nerve and mustard gas weapons in the United States' stockpile and is under treaty obligation to destroy them. The process is expected to take about six years. Good riddance and about time. GB is non-persistant nerve agent and terribly dangerous compared to binary chemical weapons.
#3
I think there is a special place in hell for the people who thought this crap up and for the assholes who could contemplate using it.
Not condoning anything, but you are looking at this with a current mindset as opposed to say, somebody from the 1950s and 60s, who looked at the Fulda Gap and had to plan a response.
At one point this stuff was considered an alternative to battlefield nukes. A lot of blood and treasure was expended in the shadows to keep this horrible stuff from being used.
#4
I think there is a special place in hell for the people who thought this crap up and for the assholes who could contemplate using it.
If you think nerve agent and mustard gas is terrible, just think of the bioweapons that the Soviets engineered. Way beyond anything the U.S. ever contrived.
#5
Now contemplate the dimwits who have consistently prevented the destruction of stockpiles of chemical agents in the US.
Whimpering over the possibility of leakege from incinerators thye have held up destruction of stockpiles for decades.
The Bluegrass Army Depot had scheduled to build an incinerator to destroy stockpiles of nerve agents in KY. It should have been done and finished with the job by now. Instead, with the help of various anti-gov agencies, the destruction has been held up and we are now SEARCHING for a method of ridding ourselves of this hazard.
Congratulations to the roadblocks, you have left enormous stockpiles of agents in places where (in theory) they remain a danger to YOUR OWN D@&% COMMUNITIES! Appreciate that.
Posted by: Jame Retief ||
10/19/2004 13:38
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It goes without saying the nut jobs who impeeded the total distruction of this meanace have a special ring in hell reserved for them.
I often wonder why when given the chance we just don't slap these dipshit silly to wake them up.
#7
The bad thing about not destroying stocks in a timely manner is that the containers could continue to deteriorate, posing a greater hazard. Look at the still continuing nightmare of unexploded WW1 ordinance found in France when a plow digs one up. The moonbats want 100% assurance that everything will go ok, but will not allow transport, storage, or a destruction facility anywhere, a la NIMBY. Therefore you will never have a solution to the problem.
The problem is really how to deal with moonbats and defeat them so we can apply our best technology and efforts into neutralizing these chemical agents.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 20:50
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Our Secret Plan is working. The Gulf States become more civilized and Soddy Arabia looks more and more like the intolerant backwater it is.
While for many living in the UAE religious freedom is a well-recognised fact, for many in the West perceptions of the troubled Middle East region may lead them to lump all regional states into one category and thus fail to appreciate or recognise the uniqueness of the UAE as an oasis of tolerance and understanding.
"Pshaw! We wuvs everyone!"
The International Religious Freedom Report for 2004 on the UAE, released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labour, of the US State Department, reported a generally amicable relationship among religious groups in society, which contributes to religious freedom. It stresses that UAE government policy continues to contribute to the generally free practice of religion. In late 2001, the Ministry of Planning inquired about religious affiliation in its first federal census. According to a ministry report compiled in 2003, 76 per cent of the total population is Muslim, 9 per cent is Christian and 15 per cent were classified as "other".
Wonder if any Joooos were counted. You know, alive.
The report said that foreign missionaries operate in the country. They have been performing humanitarian missionary work even before 1971. In 1960, Christian missionaries opened a maternity hospital in the Emirate of Abu Dhabi; the hospital continues to operate. Missionaries also operate a maternity hospital in the emirate of Fujairah. An International Bible Society representative in Al Ain distributes Bibles and other religious material to Christian religious groups throughout the country, the report said. There are 24 Christian churches in the country built on land donated by the ruling families of the emirates in which they are located. There are also two Sikh temples and one Hindu temple operating in the country, and another Sikh temple reportedly being built in Dubai.
No synagogue though.
Four emirates are home to parochial, Christian, primary and secondary schools. The emirates of Abu Dhabi and Dubai have donated land for Christian cemeteries. Abu Dhabi has also donated land for a Baha'i cemetery. There are two operating cremation facilities and associated cemeteries for the Hindu community — one in Dubai and one in Sharjah. Resha is an Indian national and practising Hindu in the UAE. She feels that her community is free to practise their rituals of worship without any hindrance she said in the presence of the government minder. "I believe we are quite free to practise our rituals to an extent. There are no restrictions. The Hindu temple in Dubai is the only one in the UAE and the region and we would like to see bigger and better facilities for our worship naturally," Resha said.
Don't push your luck, Resha.
Professor Dinah Lazor, a Protestant Christian who has been living in the UAE for four years, said: "We have the freedom to worship. In fact, it has been a moving religious experience for me to have the opportunity to worship with so many different nationalities. I am a Methodist but since there is no Methodist Church in the country, I attend a Baptist service as well as a Catholic and Anglican service. "There is information publicly available on churches in the country, there are services available on Sunday evenings and Friday mornings. I did have some difficulty locating the churches at first. The Catholic and Anglican services in Dubai Friday morning are attended by between 12,000 and 13,000 worshippers.
Posted by: Steve White ||
10/19/2004
1:03:42 AM ||
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#1
As you pointed out, this freedom definitely doesn't extend to Judaism. Actually I doubt whether Jews are allowed into the UAE. Especially Jews or other undesirables with Israeli stamps in their passports.
I wonder if they have church bells. Probably not. That might clash with the Moslem call to prayer five times a day.
#3
Give them some credit. I do. If they allow the free dissemination of info about Christian services and allow Hindu worship when Hindus are considered outright pagans by islam and thus not worthy of life unless they convert, then this is really something.
But I don't doubt that the appearances probably do not reflect the whole reality as is the case in China as well. I also don't doubt that the situation is entirely dependent on the individual who happens to be ruling at the moment and the fact that the UAE is currently stable and peaceful. I don't doubt that if the situation were to change there, then so would this period of tolerance since islam has no mechanisms and structures for maintaining tolerance in times of crisis and stress. Its at those times when muslims, following their prophet's example, turn to a "muslims first' policy and all bets are thence off.
I wonder if a muslim can convert to another religion. Or if a Christian could freely criticize islam. I doubt it. And where oh where are the Jews in all this? hmmmmm?
#4
FYI - In the GCC, Gulf Cooperation Council, all of them, it is standard policy to bar entry to any GCC country for anyone with an Israeli stamp in their passport. I have 2 valid US passports for this very reason.
#6
No. It's not unusual for those who work in the ME to get a second passport especially for the multiple-re-entry stamp for the country you'll be working in - good for the duration of the visa plus a month or two. Your original passport is still valid - and is used, if needed, for when a visa renewal goes awry and takes too long on the "temporary" one. Both are normal standard US blue passports. I needed my original, once, when a new visa was slow being issued. BTW, it's not the State Dept that's so helpful in this regard, it's working for a good US company that has its shit wired tight, is very experienced in international red tape, and has a Wash office of people who can get shit done. Even while the career diplo's are off doing the 3-martini lunches. I worked for such a company this last tour over there.
#7
I believe you can do this if you tell State you plan to visit both Israel and a GCC, or similar insanely anti-Joooo, country. Of course, you'll be on your own dealing with the State Dept - and that can suck. Sorry.
A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.
(abortion and cooperating in it) " incurs excommunication latae sententiae,by the very commission of the offense..."
Its still possible to get forgiveness upon confession that is genuine. There is an entire ministry in the Catholci Church that exists to bring abortion supporters and their victims back into God's grace.
Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver has made the case for this. Read his interview with the NY Times - the whole thing, not the cut n pasted job the NYT did,. The unabridged version is at www.archen.org
And this guy, if he is going tilting after windmills, he should get a few more Republicans "pro choicers" to his roster: Rudy Guliani is one I do not see named.
#5
I can see the logic of this, as long as it's modified to include every catholic who has ever had a abortion, used birth control, or has publicly expressed the opinion that it's OK for other people who aren't catholic to get an abortion.
Since I'm not catholic, I do have have a question. This is meant honestly, not with the slightest insult. First, does life begin at conception? Second, does the soul appear at conception? If this is so, why is it not acceptable to use birth control that prevents concepption in the first place? Also, 30% of all pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage. No fault of anyone. Does the church give last rites to these miscarriages? If not, are these souls denied heaven? A number of these first trimester miscarriages occus without the mother ever really knowing she was pregnant. What happens to these souls?
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 7:07
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#6
Excommunicated?
Does this mean he wont be able to communicate any more? No more speeches?? GREAT!!
Although we cannot know what happens to these souls, we can trust in Godâs mercy and have reason to hope that they are in heaven. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) explains: âAs regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.â (CCC 1261)
__________________
Jim Blackburn
Catholic Answers Apologist
An unscientific poll conducted by Catholic Answers Forum (10-13-04)
View Poll Results: Is it a sin to vote for John Kerry?
It is a mortal sin to vote for John Kerry 117 54.42%
It is a venial sin to vote for John Kerry 12 5.58%
Whether it is a sin depends on one's intentions 59 27.44%
It is no sin to vote for John Kerry 27 12.56%
#11
RN: Thank you for your honest answer. It's nice to see that it's possible to not know, which seems to me the essence of faith.
My own personal difficuly lies in the concept of original sin itself. Christianity makes the basic assumption that humans are born in sin, and cannot extricate themselves without outside help. Most other world religions see it the other way around, that we are born pure and corrupted by the world afterward. Makes for a whole different viewpoint, since if we are born pure, it is possible for us to remain so without anyone else's help. Not easy, not very probable, but at least possible. And it's up to us to keep trying, through an eternity of lives if necessary. Escape from rebirth comes from within. No, I don't beleive this literally. It's "as if".
I'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes from the novel Tom Jones: "We are all of us as god made us, and most of us a good deal worse."
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 8:07
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#12
Good to have this kind of action and discussion so close to Guy Fawkes Day. The Vatican's action is even less welcome than the Guardian's.
Furners, get a clue.
Posted by: Mrs. Davis ||
10/19/2004 8:15
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#13
While we're at it, let's not forget that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith used to go by another name: The Inquisition. Name change I beleive in the 1860's, but still the same bunch of jolly guys.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 8:32
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#14
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Posted by: The Doctor ||
10/19/2004 8:40
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#15
As Stalin once asked, "How many Divisions does the Vatican have?"
#16
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition? You're probably right, but only because Cardinal Ratzinger can't figure out how to pull it off.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 8:52
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#17
Actually, the excommunication is automatic - thats what the latin in the first post I made says.
The Church does not excommunicate you in the case of abortion: by your own actions, YOU have exocommunicated yourself (like the law doesnt really make someone into a murderer - the person does so themselves by comitting the murder, and the law formalizes this at trial).
The only thing the Church does in the case of "latae sententiae" acts is recognize what you have done to yourself. You have already done the damag e- the Church isnt doing anything to you except formalizing the label you have placed on yourself and putting the persoin outside the graces of the Church until they genuinely confess and repent, and accept the everpresent forgiveness God offers to all sinners.
Also, the Spanish Inquisition is ancient history - and irrelevant, due to the reformation and the changes in the Church since that time. I suppose you hold the Salem witch hunts against modern day New England protestants, or the predations of Atilla against the Hungarians?
I know of no major religious system which says that man is born perfect. Original Sin of some form is present in Judiasm, Christianity and Islam, given their common roots (All come from Abraham, which links them to Adam), and in Buddhism and Hinduism, you are re-born according to karmic debt; even the Bodhisattvas had to achieve perfection instead of being born with it. The common root is that all believe you must believe in thier system and work hard to rid yourself of the stain of original sin. Christianity is unique in that it allows that original sin is removed by baptism and faith, not worldy works.
And regarding Cardinal Ratzlinger, it is his job to enforce the rules. If you dont bother enforcing the rules and laws, then why bother having a Church, or a nation for that matter? Nations and states put people in jail for breaking the laws. Even private groups will kick you out for violating the rules deliberately and repeatedly.
The difference is that the Church doesnt put people into jail, it just boots them out, and symbolically communicates to them the fact that they (ther person in question) have severed their relationship with God and His Body on earth (the Church) - the name for this state of a relationship is Excommunication. It means that you no longer have communion with the Church since you have breached the faith severely. Its not the Church, but the person and thier actions.
As for how many divisions the Pope has, he apparently has far more effective divisions than Stalin. After all the Soviet Union isn't around anymore, and the Church still is.
#19
I donb't hold the Salem witch hunts against the protestants, or the Inquisition against catholics. My point, if there was one, is that the job of the congregation for the doctrine of the faith is to root out heresy, which is it's job as the lineal descendant of the inquisition.
As to the question of man being born perfect: didn't say that. Nobody is perfect. Said man is born pure and without sin. Not the same thing at all. If man is born without sin, he can save himself, without need of a church to do it for him. Yes, you are reborn with karmic debt. If you didn't have any, you would have escaped rebirth. It's not considered sin in the way christians see it. It's the end point of actions taken in a previous life. The Bodhisattva achieves perfection through study and meditation on the teachings of the buddha. In doing so he becomes like a flame that has gone out. He is neither there or not there. It's not hooked up with original sin. Your idea that there is some common theme of original sin in eastern thought is just plain wrong. You insist on something that isn't true. Sorry. I've studied this stuff for almost 20 years, and it just doesn't work that way. What's the saying? Examine the mote in your own eye? Something like that.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 9:49
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#20
Wierd Al, to answer your question about contraception:
Remember God's commandment in Genesis to "be fruitful and multiply"? It was given to Adam, to Noah, and indirectly to Abraham and his descendants. It goes to the Catholic theology of sexuality. God gave us the pleasure of sex so as to encourage us to do it. Sexuality is a pleasurable, healthy and normal part of human behavior. You're supposed to have sex as part of marriage. This does, however allow you to abstain periodically - meaning if you use natural family planning, then you can attempt to choose when you will have a child as a couple. By the way, when practiced according to the training, NFP is as effective as birth control pills (google for it and read up if you like) without all the side effects. There are physicians, gynecologists and other professionals who teach this nation wide - for both "birth control" and fertility (if you know whent he most likely time of ovulation is, you can plan your activities around that time to enhance or reduce the chances of becoming pregnant).
But remember, the purpose God has behind sexuality is procreation. So the doctrine says that all sexual acts have to be open to the possibility of procreation to fulfill the responsibility behind the pleasure. And before you get into it, yes this means that anything the results in orgasm (of the male) other than vaginal intercourse is going against the rules - ruling out homosexual activity and oral sex to the point of orgasm (and no I dont know if oral sex is OK if you use it only as foreplay - ask a theologian on that). And as for post-menopausal sex, it is still open to procreation by way of the stories of ELizabeth in the New Testament, and Sarah in the old testament, who both bore important children (John the Baptist and Isaac repsectively) after menopause.
And that is pretty much the standard answer you will get in marriage counseling from a Catholic point of view, although probably said a bit better than what I said, and I may be wrong about the exact wording and nuances that I may have communicated here. (In other words, this is just an opinion, if you want the official position, go ask a priest or certified Catholic counselor).
#21
You contradict yourself: pure but not without defect?
Wierd Al, if you are not born perfect (without defect), then how can you be born pure (without contamination)? You are born with a burden of bad actions - in Buddhism/Hinduism its the karmic debt, in Judeao-Christian tradition its called original sin: the tendency Humans all have to act in destructive ways, in contravention to the laws of God and nature. Its illustrated every day, even by small children.
And you are talking to a Catholic who ran away from the Church for over a decade, of which I spent 5 years trying to be a Buddhist - Therevadist, not Mahayanist. When I got to the end of things, I saw, as the poet says, that "there was no 'there' there", yet something was still missing (the first cause, the Creator). But thats a matter of personal faith and not of much relevance other than to show you where I come from.
The question still stands. And I know all about the beam in my eye, I consult regularly about it - wonderful thing, Irish Catholic Guilt... As for the mote, I suggest you look to the beam in your eye instead as well - for you deny Him His very divinity.
From there we can agree to disagree. I'm not here to convert you but to explain and answer your questions. I do not intend to offend or preach - just to show you why Catholics do these things -and the nature of the "inside" reasons for what peopel outside the Church see when it comes to Catholic faith and politics.
And I could be mistaken: I am, after all, just a well meaning catechist, a lay person. To get the authoritative view, consult a local bishop.
#22
Um....well, Old Spook, that was a great answer as almost all of your posts are, but there's one tiny problem.
Yes, NFP can work almost as well as any other method....if you happen to have well-regulated cycles. A lot of women don't, especially as they get closer to menopause and your body gets a little weird with the changing hormone levels.
I kinda-sorta was one of those "oops" babies. Fortunately I was wanted, and my parents were more than able to take good care of me, but not every child born in that situation is.
I'm just amazed that the Vatican, according to this story, let some lay lawyer start the process instead of a priest or bishop. That's the weird, and frankly scary, part of this whole story. I'm no Kerry fan, but I don't relish the idea of my fellows in the pews deciding they are going to be defenders of my faith and going after other parishioners because they don't like any aberration from doctrine. I guess that shows just how low the bishops have sunk in the last few years. How depressing.
I guess if I get busted by my local church ladies while filling my pill prescription at the local Planned Parenthood I can expect the same damn thing, then.....
I believe this fellow brining these things tothe Ecclesiatical court is a bit of a grand-stander, and probably politically, not spiritually, motivated, given his list of "targets". The laws of the Church fully apply to ALL the faithful. the reformation certinaly should have taught Catholics that lesson.
My opinion is that these things are best handled between the Diocese of which the person in quesion is a member. This case before the ecclesiatical court shoudl have been a request for a GENERAL ruling, not one specifically about specific politicans. Then after the ruling comes, each diocese would be required to apply the decision to its members.
[cynical]
But that wouldn't make an opportune splash in a bit political season, would it?
[/cynical]
Bottom line for me is that Kerry knowingly, willingly and repeatedly broke the laws fo the Church, and by doing so placed himself outside the communion of the Church (ex-communicated himself). The Church has yet to formally state it, and this fellow is trying to selectively force the issue for political gain.
#25
John Kerry wants to portray himself as a Catholic who happens to disagree with church policy. Pardon an ignorant question, but isn't that the definition of a Protestant?
#26
Blondie, you have a valid point - one which my wife and I face now. But for younger people, NFP is effective and should be given preference in deference to your faith. I do recall hearing that if the hormonal pills are medically neccesary, that is, required as a medical treatment, even for younger women, then they are OK per Church doctrine. Birth control is usually doctrinal matter, not an immediately dogmatic one like abortion.
To give you an idea of my age, our son is joining the Marine Corps (and we got married later than most couples). So my wife and I are facing some irregularity in timing already. I don't have a good answer for that except to say that if we have another child, we welcome him or her as a gift. However, the doctor has suggested birth control pills as a medical treatment, a "theraputic regulator" for the menses (she's too young for hormone therapy just yet) - we will probably be asking the Archdiocese in which we live for a ruling if my wife decides that she has had enough with the irregularity - there is nothing in Church law that says you may not seek legitimate treatment for a medical condition - its along the lines of (although not as serious as) choosing chemotherapy for a cancer patient who has become pregnant.
As I said before, I'm no expert on the nooks and crannies, just the broad and general swat of Catholic catechism in these areas. So I'm asking for help where I need it, and maybe you could do the same if your being on "the pill" worries you in the least.
I boggle at the things Rantburg brings out into the public. I never thought I'd be diuscussing Catholic sexualtiy, birth control and a stranger's & my wife's menstrual cycle in public.
#27
OS: karma is not the result of bad action. It is the result of ALL action, nonaction, thought and nonthought, good and bad. Only indifferent action/thought is exempt. Therefore, it does not make man bad at birth. It only means he needs to move further along the path. To be pure is to be like an empty vessel, to be filled later. The concept of karmic debt is after all, only a concept, one that even true scholars have a little trouble with. Again, it is "as if", not necesarily physically true.
Theravedist. I am truly impressed. Not a touch of sarcasm. A very rough row to hoe, one that I didn't feel able to do. I'm not sure where I would place myself. The teaching I feel closest to is the Diamond Sutra, for what that's worth.
The problem with the first cause, is of course fundamental to the teaching of the Buddha, who generally refused to answer questions regarding such things as being basicly beside the point. To paraphrase: Whether there is a soul or not, whether there is a god or not, whether the universe is infinite or not, it is true that there is birth, suffering, pain, disease, old age, and death.
I've read in several religions, and I have found these concepts resonate for me. I also recognise that they would be extremely disturbing for many people, and honor that discomfort. So, we appear to be on the same page at this point.
With regard to birth control: the Dalai Lama agrees with you on the question of abortion. He has however said that he also understands the problem of overpopulation, and concedes the need for birth control. The question is whether sex is only for procreation, again something we appear to need to agree to disagree on.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 10:35
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#28
If man is born without sin, he can save himself, without need of a church to do it for him. Yes, you are reborn with karmic debt. If you didn't have any, you would have escaped rebirth.
seems to me you've got a bit of a contradiction there.
If one is born pure - ie: empty like a vessel, how is it that one also be born with the baggage of Karmic debt? Especially since if one didn't have any Karmic debt, they would have escaped rebirth? Karmic debt sounds like just another word for "sin" to me.
#30
2b: Again, karmic debt is first of all only a concept. Second, it is not the result of bad actions, it is the result of ALL non-indifferent actions and thoughts, good or bad. It's actually a carry-over from hindism, and gets a little complicated in buddhism, since hindus believe in a monad, and buddhists don't. You are trying to graft your concept of original sin onto a set of beliefs that don't agree with you. Original sin is not a law of the universe, it's a religious belief. What is so threatening about accepting that other people have other ideas?
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 10:54
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#31
Let's put it as simply as possible. If you are a buddhist, these can be no original sin,, because there is no sinner. If you understand this, you have entered the stream. If not, you need a teacher. I'm a student, and not qualified.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 10:59
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#32
In case the neocons hadn't noticed, this is AMERICA, not the vatican. Canon law is no better than Sharia and is NOT the law of the land. It's about Democracy. I'm sure the protestants will welcome John. One more sad example of Catholic idiocy.
Posted by: me ||
10/19/2004 11:10
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#33
You are trying to graft your concept of original sin onto a set of beliefs that don't agree with you
I'm not trying to do any such thing. You don't have any idea if I even believe in orginal sin or not. I'm just pointing out that you have a bit of a contradiction that, like members of other faiths, you can't explain, so you start quoting jingoisms and parsing semantics to explain it.
Bad..nonindifferent...whatever. According to you - actions, nonactions, nothingness results in one being reborn because of a Karmic "debt" which hopefully will..in time, need not be repaid.
Call it what you want...
Obviously you have spent 20 years into buying into the concept that a Karmic debt isn't really a debt ...it just nothing. Not a debt really, just a pure empty vessel. So carry on. No point in going further.
#34
2b: snotty when people don't agree with you. You haven't actually read the posts, you just have to prove how bitchy you can be. Religious concepts are just that: concepts. Take them literally if you want. Or not. I'm discussing what some of them are, not saying I agree with all of them. So try a christian one out: tell me all about the concept of the trinity in fifty words or less, and explain how one becomes three.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 11:27
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#35
Why, pray tell, are any non-Catholics posting on this thread? Jerking off for the camera, perhaps?
Obviously, this is their turf and their issue - and outsider opining serves no purpose whatsoever except self-gratification of the silly sort.
#37
oooh...drew some blood, did I? Since you chose to attack me personally and claim that I can't explain my faith, I take that to mean that you are incapable of explaining yours.
#40
Original sin and karma: Whether we are born with it or not, in Buddhism, conditioned existence is an overlay or obscuration of unconditioned existence, and everyone suffers from it until liberation, so for all practical purposes, Buddhism and Catholicism are strikingly similar on this subject.
#41
About the Spanish inquisition. How many people were burned in Spain during its 300 years of existence? 12,000. That is 40 per year. (To give a comparison: protestant europe burned 40,000 "witches" in a mere thirty years ie 1,300 per year.
Was it more prone to torturing than say,secular courts? When they were created, Inquisition courts, gave in fact _more_ guarantees than secular courts (like allowing the accusee to name people who had feuds with him and whose testimony would be disregarded) and prominent inquisitors warned against torture as leading to false confessions. The problem with Spanish inquisition was not its brutality but that it was still using the same methods in the XVIIIth century when people no longer considered them normal.
#43
OldSpook> Is pleasure supposed to be *always* a bonus granted by God for fulfilling an obligation towards him, or are there pleasurable activities that people can engage in without needing to be fulfilling a duty at the same time?
As for "be fruitful and multiply", even when I considered myself a Christian, I always saw that more as a blessing and less as a commandment. In part because it wouldn't jive with the unmarried clergy if it was a religious commandment. And now that I check out the Bible again, it does indeed say "God *blessed* them" when he was saying these things. Hmm.
#44
Heck all this deep and interesing comment. I am lucky I belong to no organized religion. I am ex methodist.
I just wonder again how many folks will vote for Bush over Kerry because of this issue. I know it will impact all serious Catholics. I grew up in the midst of them. This is serious stuff.
#46
agree spd. This will impact many Catholics that might have otherwise voted for Kerry. I think this WILL have a serious impact. It won't make the MSM, but it will make all of the Catholic religious chat sites, newsletters, etc ...and people who tune in to those types of things will be ones most swayed by this.
#47
In case the neocons hadn't noticed, this is AMERICA, not the vatican.
I do not think you understand the meaning of the term 'neo-con'.
>Canon law is no better than Sharia and is NOT the law of the land. It's about Democracy. <
Nobody ever implied that it was the law of the land. It is, however, what members of the R.C.C. are to follow. It's called "you play the game, you follow the rules".
I'm sure the protestants will welcome John.
'John' (nice to see you're on a first name basis with him) is free to go anywhere he likes.
One more sad example of Catholic idiocy.
Nonsense. If ones wishes to throw around the label 'Catholic', one must also assume the 'cross' that goes with it. It's not like being a libertarian, where one agrees with a vague philosophy, but varies wildly on the details.
#48
If ones wishes to throw around the label 'Catholic', one must also assume the 'cross' that goes with it
Pappy excellent point. To do so otherwise is as ridiculous as to claim that one is a Christian and then get miffed when someone points out that you are practicing the Muslim faith. Ok...a bit extreme of an analogy, but one is not born a "Catholic" any more than one is born a Red Sox fan. It's ultimately a choice that is followed by action.
#50
HV: "Original sin and karma: Whether we are born with it or not, in Buddhism, conditioned existence is an overlay or obscuration of unconditioned existence, and everyone suffers from it until liberation, so for all practical purposes, Buddhism and Catholicism are strikingly similar on this subject." Agreed. Just different end points. Christians go to heaven, buddhists attain Nirvana. Except I'm not sure how you have unconditioned existence.
2b: If you think HV made your point, more power to you. If you think I'm claiming to know "the truth", you understand even less of what I say than I thought. If that's possible.
If this is a thread only for catholics: a: what happened to free speech? and b: someone needs to let the catholic heirarchy know that they should stay out of our politics.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 12:36
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#51
Oh my, did I offend? So sorry. Your freedom of speech and onanistic exertions are intact - you're still posting, aren't you?
#52
If this is a thread only for catholics: a: what happened to free speech?
.com's point is that this is something that concerns Catholics and really should be discussed by them. It's like a thread between expectant mothers regarding pregnancy issues; a comment by me (a male whose kid entering junior high) about my experiences with pregnant women at Kids R' US is really just so much verbal onanism.
and b: someone needs to let the catholic heirarchy know that they should stay out of our politics.
Nonsense. The 'catholic heirarchy" [sic]
doesn't tell its members who to vote for, only what the Church doctrine is, and that voters should make choices based on that doctrine. One still has the free will to make a decision.
Mr. Kerry tried to have it both ways. He played up his Catholic membership card but went the 'disagreement' route because they were both politcally expedient. The Church, in a rare case of religious bravery, called him on it.
#53
Weird Al - I'm sorry, I was over the top. My only defense is that I did, indeed, want to know how the Catholics view this, assuming it's true. They are a very significant voting group of citizens - and thus it could have a serious impact on the most important election in my (long) lifetime. So I was uber-focused and short of patience.
#55
.com: actually, I'm interested to know what they think as well, since it probably will have an impact on the election. One of the nice things about postings like this is that 20 people can put something up at the same time. Statement #53 seen and forgotten. If we all agreed, where would be the fun?
Looking back to about #5, it appears that I'm the one who got this ball rolling in the first place. So, if people feel I've done wrong, then I apologise. It's just the I love a good rolling religious discussion and dive right in. I get assertive, even when I don't necessarily believe what I'm saying, just to see what peeks out from under the covers. For instance, who would have thunk a good Irish catholic boy like OS was once a theravidian? Grand fun.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 13:33
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#56
Vatican denies it responded to lawyer seeking Kerry's excommunication
By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service
"VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- An official at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith said a California canon lawyer seeking a formal decree of heresy against Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, Democratic presidential nominee, has misrepresented his contact with the Vatican office.
"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has had no contact with Mr. (Marc) Balestrieri," said Dominican Father Augustine DiNoia, undersecretary of the congregation.
"His claim that the private letter he received from (Dominican) Father Basil Cole is a Vatican response is completely without merit," Father DiNoia told Catholic News Service Oct. 19, declining to discuss the matter further."
Never mind.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 13:55
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#57
WELCOME TO MY WORLD, BROTHER JOHN... HEH HEH HEH
#58
.com, speaking for the rest of my faith is a bit presumptuous, but I'll try.....
How are most of them going to react? Naturally, at first we want to know what happened to cause the supposed excommunication. As far as I know, he hasn't stated anything more than many other Catholic politicians have regarding abortion, and he is far from the first to be divorced, remarried and running for office.
THEN.....we're going to make up our own minds and vote the way we feel we should.
We are not some monolithic voting bloc that mindlessly follows what the priest says here in America. That's the old country way....
Our voting patterns are pretty much the same as the average American. We are a little bit more anti-abortion, and maybe a little less likely to support the death penalty, but that is about it as far as differences are concerned.
Would I vote for someone just because they are a fellow Catholic? Nope. I don't know anyone in my congregation who would. Case in point....Pat Buchanan. I wouldn't vote for him unless his opponent was Satan himself....and even then it would be close.
I would vote against someone who was stridently anti-Catholic (the type that goes around saying that we aren't Christians, that kind of crap), but I don't think that is any different than some other voter choosing not to support a candidate who said something derogatory about something they believed in or valued.
We have the whole political spectrum in our faith, from left wing loony to right wing nut. Most of us have already made up our minds, and this isn't going to change the opinions of hardly anyone now.
I have voted for, and will vote for, candidates who were pro-choice and pro-death penalty, simply because I thought they were the best for the job. I don't think that is a sin that's going to sentence me to time in hell.
If there is one good thing to come from this election, it is the fact that Kerry is Catholic and no one really cares about that. He doesn't have to defend his loyalty to country vs. Vatican like Kennedy did.
#59
Ain't it the truth? God, I love American politics. Break out the popcorn and beer on election night and watch the fireworks. Greatest show on earth.
Posted by: Weird Al ||
10/19/2004 15:52
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#60
Well said DB. Though most of the Catholics (if not all) the ones I know are not opposed to the death penalty, use contraception (I know you didn't specifically mention this but it was mentioned earlier in the thread) and are not stridently pro-life.
.com> I'm Catholic as well, come from a big-ass Irish-Catholic family and married into my wife's big-ass Irish & Polish Catholic family (they walk around pissed, drunk, but don't know why :)
I grew up with the stuff. I have some pretty religious famliy members and some who have told the church to piss off. I also belong to the KofC.
Now for the meat - our views are as different as any Americans. Heck, other then on military affairs I don't know if you could get me and OS to agree on what it means to be able to be Catholic and have differing views from the church etc.
WRT to my family - my dad's going to vote Nader and was pissed as hell at the RC Church for raising the no communion issue w/Kerry. My mom-in-law is voting Kerry and dis-likes Bush. Me and the wife and all the younger members of the family are voting for W. I think Kerry's a schmuck personally (on so many levels), I have issues with people who wear their religion on their sleave when there's an election. To me, religion's a personal matter, I think the founding fathers would cringe at some guy politicking from a pulpit. I also think they'd cringe when church's start suggesting who or who not to vote for. That just doen's go for the RC, look at many black Baptist churches that take on dem positions based off what race-baiters like Jackson/sharpton spew.
I don't support/not support any politician based solely on their religious or military background for that matter. For the record I am for the death penalty and still sleep fine at night. I think if a person leads a good life and does the best they can they still go to 'this concept of heaven' whether they beleived in Christ as their savior or not. I don't like the practice of abortion, I'd like to see more people put up their un-wanted babies for adoption. I'm glad partial-birth abortion was gotten rid of. However, I don't want to go back to the 50s/60s where young girls are bleeding in back alley ways w/coat hangers shoved up their genitals. I hope there comes a day where abortion is very rare, though I think it should remain an option for those who want it, let's try to take care of the ones who are already here walking around amongst us. Not all my fellow Americans are catholics, I wouldn't push my views on them as certainly as I don't push my religious or political views on my Marines. I feel a person's decision to have an abortion is between that individual and their maker. I know Kerry got lampooned for that type of statement but I feel the same way. I don't think it's a sin to vote for kerry, it's definitely stupid, but not a sin. I think things are bullshit or not because usually I come to some sort of logical conclusion, I rarely use "my church or God says..." as an argument. Now, as a disclaimer to anyone who wants to tell me I'm a moral coward or some such because I don't choose to leave the church or become a protestant or whatever because I don't swallow every tenet - get off the high horse, save your breath. This Marine ain't going no where.
Also, my apologies DB, you did mention a birth control thing in an earlier post, I mis read the posters. My wife had the same issue w/the irregular cycles so that's an interesting angle. I guess the church would be fine w/that because it's a health issue and not directly related to trying to stop from having a baby. Though we've never asked.
#63
DB...interesting, thanks. However, I do think that, even if it turns out that Kerry was not excommunicated, this will cost him votes.
This can only have two impacts - 1. people who do care, 2. people who don't care. "Don't cares" are a non-impact. Many "do cares" may or may not change their vote - but any that do make the decision to not to vote for Kerry after considering this issue, are a net loss for Kerry. There is nothing about this issue that will gain him him any votes. Is it enough to turn the election? I doubt it.
BTW...Did Kerry annul his marriage with his first wife after they had been married and raised their kids?
#64
2b - I heard something earlier that he tried to annul the first marriage. I don't know if he actually did that....supposedly Mrs Kerry the first was pissed as hell about him trying.
Still, that would pretty much be a non-issue to most Catholics except for the really strict ones. I mean, damn, there are a lot of divorcees in my congregation. One of them, sort of a local celebrity, comes in with her kids and her new husband.
#66
DB..if I remember correctly, it was more of an issue of character, rather than a divorce issue.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory - but I believe that rather than get a divorce, he wanted the marriage annulled...like it never happened - even though by that time their kids were already grown up. There was a sleeze bag reason for not just getting a regular ol' divorce - he didn't want to pay alimony or some other equally sleazy reason
"This week's issue of Time magazine says Sen. John Kerry 'sought an annulment of his 18-year first marriage before marrying again.' News reports indicate, however, that Kerry didn't seek an annulment until after he married Teresa Heinz in a civil ceremony in 1995. Today's New York Times says Kerry 'sought an annulment from the church when he was divorced from his first wife.' Notice that neither Time nor the New York Times says that an annulment was granted. They say it was 'sought.'
"Kerry cannot claim that this is a private matter since he publicly joked about his quest for an annulment on the Don Imus show of May 8, 1997. 'Seventy-five percent of all annulments in the world take place in the United States,' Kerry said, 'and I guess the figure drops to 50 percent if you take out all Massachusetts politicians.' He continued saying, 'It's one of those special Catholic things. It's like confession or feeling guilty about things you haven't even thought of doing.'
"On Feb. 16, 2004, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that 'Kerry's office didn't respond to several e-mail and telephone requests' regarding the question of whether an annulment was granted. On March 23, 2003, the Providence Journal-Bulletin said that Kerry 'will not say whether he obtained an annulment of his first marriage. â¦' Why the reticence, especially since Kerry says his 'current marriage is in good graces with the Church?'
"Why does this matter? If Kerry did not receive an annulment, then he is not married in the Catholic Church and cannot receive the sacraments. But even if he was annulled, did he and Teresa Heinz get married in the Catholic Church following the annulment? If not, then Kerry is not married in the Church, thus raising all sorts of questions."
I guess he must have gotten one, since they've been receiving communion at mass.....a big no-no for divorcees, especially those who have remarried.
#68
According to a previous account offered by the paper, the fact that Kerry was still technically married till 1988 "reportedly came as a surprise to some of his frequent companions."
Just weeks before his May 26, 1995, remarriage to Ketchup heiress Theresa Heinz, Thorne took Kerry to court in a bid for an increase in child support payments, arguing that "his income was up substantially," according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
Both Kerry and Thorne denied that the lawsuit had anything to do with Heinz or her fortune.
But friction arose again two years later when Kerry, a Catholic, applied to the Washington, D.C., archdiocese to have his marriage to Thorne annulled, even though the couple had two grown daughters.
Thorne "has written a letter of opposition to the archdiocese because she feels the process demeans their relationship and their children," reported the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 1997.
The paper blamed Kerry's new wife on the annulment bid. His office issued a terse statement: "Sen. Kerry very much understands Julia's feelings and appreciates her support. Sen. Kerry believes that this is a private family matter."
The Washington Times noted in a Kerry profile several years ago that his critics consider him "a ruthless political opportunist." Given some of the more obscure details of Kerry's first marriage, that assessment may not be too far off the mark
#69
Bush could have brought this up in the debates, but he has too much moral fiber to pull a cheap trick like Kerry did, re: Mary Cheney.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
10/19/2004 19:36
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#70
OldSpook - Thanks for reminding me why I am not Catholic! With that method of birth control I would have hundreds of children. Instead I have my ZPG mandated 2.
(ZPG -- Your duty to the planet as a human not to kill it with over population.)
#72
It sounds like there is a quiet riot going on under the lid, lol! I didn't expect any sort of lock-step with the Vatican, but I have to ask: If you disagree with so many of (what appear to be) the hardline rules / laws / tenets / whatever - why go to Catholic churches, why think of yourself as Catholic? There are a lot of little-bit pregnant people running around, methinks. I find it curious. And I include Skeery - he follows what suits him, so I don't see why he's "Catholic". I don't get it, but appreciate the info. Even if it turned out to be true, it sounds like it would only mean something to a minority of Catholics... maybe a very small one, too.
Thanx - an education for a Texas boy who saw damned near all the other Christian religions of note in the US in action, my mother was a ping-pong ball until she found the Mormons, but I never visited a Mass. Hell, still I know 10x more about Theravadan Buddhists in Thailand and Wahhabi RamaLamaDingDongs in Saudi than I do Catholics, lol! My honest thanx for lifting the lid!
#73
My wife and I are not Catholic or even fundementalist christians. However we both know divorce and abortion are grave sins. So I am wondering WTH Kerry comes off claiming he is catholic even in the general sense (universal christian faith as opposed to the Holy Roman Chatholic Church.) This all leaves me scratching my body parts.
This crap of getting a marriage annuled years after the fact was one of the issues Martin Luther had when he nailed that letter to that door. It just shouldn't be done. Once a marriage is consummated you hitched for good. I am really (not) sad he couldn't get married in a real Catholic Church because he was divorced. This creep doesn't rate even a shot at being president of the US.
#74
the annullment game is a sad one. I married in the RC faith, and got divorced. I can no longer marry in the church, but that was made VERY clear before I married the first time. I should've been a better husband and married later than I did. An annullment in my case would be by mutual agreement...not that hard to grasp: encouragement to marry once, and do it right, or have civil ceremonies for the rest
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 22:45
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#75
"If you disagree with so many of (what appear to be) the hardline rules / laws / tenets / whatever - why go to Catholic churches, why think of yourself as Catholic?"
I think the reason most Protestants don't get this, is because unlike Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, the clergy of most Protestant groups doesn't have the meaning that the clergy of Catholics and Eastern Orthodox has. I believe most Protestant groups either don't have a clergy or they don't see it as an intermediary between God and men with a divine mandate.
I'll let others speak of themselves, but the best way to make the point is by analogy I think: Some may consider Bush the legitimate president of America, fully-authorized to make decisions, but they may still disagree with those decisions.
Likewise someone may consider the Roman Catholic Church (or the Eastern Orthodox Churches for that matter) as the legitimate medium between God and men, divinely authorized to conduct ceremonies, absolve sin, etc.. -- and they may nonetheless still disagree with many of the specific choices and beliefs and teachings of that hierarcy. They consider the Church to *err* in its interpretation of God's will and scripture, but that doesn't mean they don't consider the Church as a whole to be divinely authorized.
It just means that they don't believe the Church's mandate extends to replacing their own reasoning faculties.
That's the justification anyway. My guess is that in many cases the real reason is that "I disagree with lot that the Catholic Church has to say" is less scary than a clear statement "I am no longer Catholic".
#76
3dc - stop lying. NFP is as effective as birth control pills. And Catholics have duty to God first - which includes stewardship of the planet, not a "duty to the planet" - that last phrase sounds like something you got of Saturday morning cartoons.
#77
A catholic President to America will be a curse, as he will be under the frock of the Pope on all key issues.Vatican authority will be sought for every important matters. Its like bringing back the evil demon of Papacy again to USA
The United States has warned its nationals of a major Al Qaida attack in Lebanon.
Who's dumb enough to be there in the first place?
A warden message issued by the U.S. embassy in Beirut warned Americans of the prospect of anr Islamic insurgency strike in Lebanon, Middle East Newsline reported. The embassy urged the U.S. community in Lebanon to stay away from shopping centers in Beirut. The message did not elaborate on the danger of Americans in shopping malls. "In light of recent events, U.S. embassy personnel are exercising greater caution with respect to visits to shopping malls in the Beirut area and recommend American citizens do the same," the warden message, dated Oct. 14, said.
One day later, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the embassy was referring to the arrest of an Al Qaida cell in Lebanon. The cell was led by Ahmed Miqati and was said to have been the first time Lebanon has detained part or all of an Al Qaida network. Boucher also said the embassy was responding to the attempted assassination of former Lebanese Minister Marwan Hamade on Oct. 1. Hamade was regarded as an opponent of Syria's military presence in Lebanon. "I think they [incidents] reflect a certain climate of violence that leads us to concern about areas where people might be congregating," Boucher said.
Posted by: David ||
10/19/2004
10:16 ||
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#1
Link is messed up, but recoverable. The content / proof, however, is - shall we say - thin to non-existent. Sadly, I must remain undecided. Really spiffy try, however. Do you code HTML for a living?
But, more importanltly, David, do you poop here often?
US warplanes again pounded targets in the Iraqi city of Falluja overnight, as a campaign against militants continues. The US military said it struck several buildings linked to the network of wanted militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The raids aimed to "thwart the Zarqawi terrorist network plans to attack the Iraqi government and its people during Ramadan", a statement said. "Multiple secondary explosions indicate a significant amount of explosives or ammunition inside the houses," it said. There was no initial word on casualties. The US has said its near-nightly bombardment of Falluja has killed dozens of insurgents blamed for a wave of violence in the so-called Sunni triangle and elsewhere. Sometimes referred to as "Pickin' up the pieces of their sweet, shattered dreams."
What's a day at Rantburg without some poor third world guy getting his johnson hacked off.
PHNOM PENH, Cambodia - A Cambodian woman stabbed her husband's penis with a knife during an argument in which she accused him of being a violent drunk, police said Monday. Whereas it looks like the wife doesn't appear to need the booze to get violent.
Tuy Narin, 35, attacked 37-year-old Chhun Saran earlier this month in Kandal province near the capital Phnom Penh, said Mang Penh, a local police officer. Tuy Narin called her husband a drunkard, prompting him to retaliate by throwing a sandal at her, Mang Penh said. Tuy Narin's mother and two sisters then wrestled the outnumbered husband to the floor and his angry wife stabbed him with a knife, the police officer said. A tag team! Jesus, no wonder the guy drinks.
The victim, who appeared to have been drinking, required seven stitches at a local hospital but the injury was "not life-threatening," he added. However, it could be "life changing"...
The assault happened on Oct. 9, according to Koh Santepheap (Island of Peace) newspaper. Might wanna rethink that name.
Chhun Saran withdrew a complaint against his wife after relatives intervened and urged the couple to reconcile, Mang Penh said. I'll bet you Chun has learned to sleep with one eye open...
Posted by: tu3031 ||
10/19/2004
10:13:47 AM ||
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And all the penises are asking, "Southeast Asian women -- why do they hate us?"
Posted by: Jonathan ||
10/19/2004 10:50
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Once men are housebroken, they make great pets. ;-p
(However, lay a hand on me and you will be singing soprano. If you're lucky, it won't be permanent.)
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 12:02
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#5
With names like that no wonder they're drinking and stabbing. Are nerve gas names based on Cambodian family names?
Notice how "relatives" pinned him when she stabbed him, and again "relatives" urged the couple to reconcile. Wonder which part they stabbed the second time around.
#6
Question: "Why do guys give a cute nickname to their penis?"
Answer: "Because they hate to have all their important life decisions being made by a stranger!"
#8
Feet = dirty = insult. Big medicine in many parts, including the ME and SE Asia. Pointing with your foot or stepping over someone is a major insult in Thailand / Cambodia.
#9
Too funny. Of course, they are such sticklers for cleanliness over there-we all know they are the only reason Dial, Sure, and Secret haven't filed for bankruptcy.
President Bush's enemies have found a new way to attack him -- through the online financial markets. There have now been four separate "speculative attacks" on the market in futures contracts on Bush's re-election probabilities traded online at the Dublin-based website Tradesports.com. These futures are real-money "bets" placed by thousands of traders around the world on whether George Bush will be re-elected. For the last several months the futures have been a reliable leading indicator of where conventional polls are heading, and they've received increasing mainstream media attention.
The attacks involved massive sell orders placed by a single individual -- the same individual all four times -- according to a spokesman for Tradesports. Each attack caused a massive temporary drop in the price of the Bush re-election futures. The most recent one, last Friday at about 1:30 EDT, whacked the Bush futures from a price of 54 (indicating the market's estimate of a 54% probability of Bush's re-election) all the way down to a price of 10 (indicating a 10% probability) -- in just eight minutes. Six minutes later the futures were back to 54. That's the equivalent of an 8000-point crash in the Dow Jones Industrial Average -- followed by an 8000 point recovery, all within 14 minutes.
What could be the attacker's motive? Obviously, it can't have been to maximize profits. Even if Bush loses the election and the futures position pays off, the attacked would make more money by being patient and selling at 54 instead of 10. In fact, when the futures snapped back to 54 when he was done selling, every contract he'd sold at 10 showed an immediate 44 point loss.
Continued on Page 49
Posted by: tipper ||
10/19/2004
10:11:09 AM ||
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Buy low - Sell high!
Best darn strategy there is against Soros. I have been watching this all week and I have done the same thing. I put 100 shares at $10 also. Good way to make a little old profit on this wanker.
Posted by: Jack is Back! ||
10/19/2004 10:21
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#2
"The ends justify every legal means possible."
Soros has become what he loathed. What an evil man!
Scrappleface Alert! But you should already know that - a Scott Ott classic!(2004-10-19) -- Previously unseen documents released by the Kerry-Edwards campaign today reveal a secret Bush administration plan to draft the elderly into military service.
"If George W. Bush wins this election, I warn you that he will kill two birds with one stone," said John Forbes Kerry, the Democrat presidential candidate. "He'll bail out Social Security by sending our nation's grandparents to the front lines in Iraq to die in the wrong war."
Mr. Kerry, who is also a U.S. Senator, said, "Senior citizens are patriotic, plentiful and many of them still have their old military uniforms and vintage rifles from World War II and Korea. It's a cynical scheme, and that's why this administration is hiding it until January."
According to details of the secret Bush plan, backdoor-drafted National Guard and Reserve troops will come home rapidly as they're replaced by five divisions of combat-ready "geriatric GIs."
To date, the Pentagon has not specifically denied the existence of the alleged secret plan dubbed 'Operation Joint Replacement.'
President Bush, asked to respond to the Kerry allegation during a campaign stop, said, "This is the first I've heard of it. But we don't need to draft our seniors. If we'd let 'em, they'd volunteer. Next question."
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004
10:07:58 PM ||
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The Fraser Institute says the wait times for elective surgeries in Canada are at their peak. The Vancouver-based think-tank has released its latest study on hospital wait times and the report says the average time between being referred by a doctor to getting surgery is now 18 weeks. People in B.C. wait a week longer than the average, while Saskatchewan residents have the longest wait at 33 weeks. Those living in Manitoba have the shortest wait times in the country — just under 15 weeks...
Posted by: ed ||
10/19/2004
09:55 ||
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Article was from Oct. 7. I didn't look at the date. But it does give a good summary and mentions that the US has "13 secret lists kept by the Iraqi Vice President Taha Yasin Ramadan and the Oil Minister". Expect sh!t to hit the fan. And in that vein, from today:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/africa/story.jsp?story=573217 American prosecutors are preparing charges against Benon Sevan, the former head of the United Nations oil for food programme, who has been accused of accepting millions of dollars in kickbacks from Saddam Hussein's regime.
Posted by: ed ||
10/19/2004 10:31
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#2
Only one?
Half the freakin' UN should be behinds bars.
In Iraq.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 11:59
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#3
I'll be back at 7 to check... aw hell. Never mind.
#4
Under the terms of the U.N resolution establishing the program, Iraq maintained the right to determine who got contracts for oil being exported and the humanitarian goods being imported and to determine market prices.
This was the basic problem. This provision should also be in mind, though, when thinking about the subsequent culpability of UN officials. The decisions about who would participate in the program and might thus be bribed were made by Iraq, not by UN officials.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 23:05
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#5
blameless, of course, helpless naifs, led astray by the not-so-evil Saddam. Of course...
my work here is done, I'll return tomorrow to check on the evidence Mikey S. supplies (along with footnotes...
Posted by: Frank G ||
10/19/2004 23:13
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#6
One of the main reasons I support our invasion of Iraq is that the UN sactions were ineffective and were quickly becoming more ineffective. These relevations add weight to our understanding of that ineffectiveness.
I think it's a mistake, though, to attribute that ineffectiveness primarily to insinuations that UN officals were personally corrupt. It's a mistake to imagine, for example, that the food-for-oil program was somehow intentionally sabotaged by Kofi Annan so that his son could enrich himself in corrupt consulting work. That's just a fantasy and a smear.
The main reasons that the UN was not able to maintain an effective embargo on Iraq were that the the UN's cohesion, capabilities and will were too weak for such a long-term embargo.
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 23:13
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#7
Frank G, couldn't you have waited 12 more seconds for my reply?
.
Posted by: Mike Sylwester ||
10/19/2004 23:14
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I might disagree with some of Bush's policies, but I've never once doubted he's a genuinely good human being. All of this "Bush is Hitler" garbage kills me. Too much inappropriate equivocation from ignorant people. God bless Dubya. And Laura. I just can't see Kerry or his wife doing this. And that't not meant to be a bash. I just cannot see them caring about anyone but themselves.
#8
Yeah, Shipman, he had to have seen it. It's obviously the camera used for whatever show he was getting ready to do (notice he's on the set - the neutral background and the decorative plant behind him - not in a dressing/makeup room).
The story that goes with this video said that it's the satellite feed that goes out before (and after, I suppose) the actual show. Notice at the end the sound guy hooks up the lapel mike and the camera operator tests the zoom.
He's been on TV enough he had to have known about this, and had to have seen the red light on the camera.
I think he's just so vain and self-centered, and this behavior is so automatic, he didn't even think about it.
Bet he will after this, but it's a little late to close that barn door. The shiny pony has already gotten out. :-D
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
10/19/2004 20:27
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
Ohio authorities say a man was charged Monday with filling out more than 100 fictitious voter registration forms, some in names such as Disney character Mary Poppins and 
The government lashed out Monday at Haiti's interim prime minister, denying allegations that South African President Thabo Mbeki has allowed Haiti's ousted president to coordinate violence in the Caribbean country from his refuge here.
A team of Egyptian doctors examined Yasser Arafat after he suffered from fever, nausea and a stuffy nose, an aide to Palestinian leader said Tuesday. The health of the 75-year-old has been a subject of intense speculation in recent years, in part because of the tremor in his lips and hands, considered as a possible symptom of Parkinson's disease. Last year, Arafat suffered from gall stones, and his aides denied rumors he had stomach cancer.
Two Iraqis were killed in fighting between US troops and insurgents as the Americans carried out sweeps around the northern town of Duluiya, considered a hotbed of extremism, medical sources said. A US military spokesman said soldiers had been sealing off neighborhoods and conducting searches for several days and had carried out detentions in the town, 75 kilometers (40 miles) north of Baghdad. "Two Iraqi corpses and six wounded were brought here," said medics at the general hospital in neighboring Balad.
John Kerry may or may not have been quoted correctly (he says not) in an Oct. 10 New York Times Magazine article in which he envisioned reducing terrorism to a mere "nuisance" level. But if author Matt Bai got it anywhere near right, as seems likely, the comment implies that the senator still doesn't understand why the U.S. is at war. Or maybe he did understand but has forgotten.
Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri has been charged with 16 offences including soliciting to murder and possession of a terrorist document. He appeared at the magistrates' court at Belmarsh prison, where he has been since May at the request of the US. The UK charges mean Mr Abu Hamza's US extradition hearing on terror-related matters - due to start on Tuesday - has been put on hold. The Egyptian-born cleric has always denied any involvement in terrorism. 
IRAQI BORDER POLICE ARRESTED 142 INFILTRATORS COMING FROM IRAN LAST WEEK. THE INFILTRATORS WERE OF DIVERSE NATIONALITIES, INCLUDING AFGHANIS, IRANIANS, AND PAKISTANIS, AND CARRIED WEAPONS AND DRUGS, BUT NO DOCUMENTS. (AL-ZAMAN, BAGHDAD, 10/19/04)
A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church. 
