Article

2009-02-07 Iraq

Awesomely Awesome: US Soldier Calls Out Mahdi Sympathizers in Iraqi Police

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Posted by tipper 2009-02-07 03:47|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Old Army! I'll bet folks back at the Zone and the Embassy are cringing. Promote that man to SGM NOW!

Posted by Besoeker 2009-02-07 04:06|| 2009-02-07 04:06|| Front Page Top

#2 I beg to differ. I have seen this clip on various websites - being praised as some sort of example of effective leadership. I say bullshit.

I've been a US Army Infantry officer, and I've more recently created and built a company staffed by foreign employees from a different culture (Thais, in my case) - and I will categorically condemn 90% of what goes on in this clip.

It would take much more time than I feel like expending on this embarrassment, but to just tick off a few items:

*As a leader, you criticize behaviors of people - not the people themselves.

*You don't condemn a group for the failings of just certain members of the group.

* You never criticize junior leaders in front of their subordinates.

*If you habitually call out subordinates to go mano-a-mano, you are eventually going to get your ass handed to you.

*Constructive criticism consists of identifying behaviors that need to be changed, and clarifying preferable alternatives - not simply saying "you are all fucked up".

I suggest that this NCO be referred to: http://www.howemilitary.com/JROTC/refereneces/schofield.htm

Posted by Lone Ranger 2009-02-07 06:03|| 2009-02-07 06:03|| Front Page Top

#3 I hear you 5x5. Unfortunately, we're not talking about the Royal Thai Army. We're talking about Muslim miscreants who WON'T FIGHT and are probably reporting their unit's activity to the enemy. This guy has probably lost good men to these slime balls and he's trying to shame them into getting off their dead asses.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-02-07 08:57|| 2009-02-07 08:57|| Front Page Top

#4 I don't know about military leadership methods, but this resonates w/the sentiment of US civilians who became disillusioned w/the fecklessness of the Iraqis we willingly expended blood and treasure to liberate.

Posted by regular joe 2009-02-07 09:38|| 2009-02-07 09:38|| Front Page Top

#5 He's lecturing Iraqi police, not a unit of the Iraqi Army.

Posted by mrp 2009-02-07 09:49|| 2009-02-07 09:49|| Front Page Top

#6 Good point mrp.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-02-07 09:57|| 2009-02-07 09:57|| Front Page Top

#7 Lone Ranger, normally Praise Publicly Criticize Privately is the better way. When dealing with westerners or in a western setting.

First consider that unlike your multi-national corporation a) its not a business and b) this is in a monoculture (Arabs). And also consider that it is not a western culture.

Arab Culture practically demands "big gestures". Their society is very much to the "drama queen" end of the scale (completely opposite, say, stern Germans or taciturn Swedes), and as such, loud public berating is expected, and if you do NOT do it, then they that that as a tacit approval.

The video may be a reaction to repeated incidents of failure of the Arabs to respond to traditional western-style leadership.

I'm not excusing this, but pointing out that that there may be no need for an excuse -- the situation and culture there may be a completely valid reason for someone to tear into them 1960-boot-camp-style

Posted by OldSpook 2009-02-07 09:58|| 2009-02-07 09:58|| Front Page Top

#8 Here's my answer. The NCO's performance may have resonated with disgruntled westerners, but if anybody thinks that this "pep talk" motivated the Iraqi police audience in attendance, I will simply tell you that you are dreaming.

Had the NCO so much as picked out one single policeman who had done something right, and built an argument toward having the rest emulate that conduct, he might possibly have made some points.

And - for anyone who offered the argument that "well, the NCO might have lost some buddies to Iraqi police duplicity" - then this NCO should not be put in front of Iraqi police until he has worked through his personal "issues".

Professionalism as a leader is about suppressing your natural personal urges in order to maximize your ability to motivate your subordinates to accomplish the mission. It most certainly is not about venting your spleen, to get your personal frustrations exorcised.

Being an Irqai policeman is probably not a particularly rewarding job. There has not been much of an "Iraqi nation" to be proud of in recent memory.

I cannot imagine any Foreign Military Forces Training Team scenario in which I would endorse the leadership style depicted in the video clip.

Posted by Lone Ranger 2009-02-07 10:16|| 2009-02-07 10:16|| Front Page Top

#9 then this NCO should not be put in front of Iraqi police until he has worked through his personal "issues".

RANGER, no problem. I'll take this NCO along with his...... "personal issues." Have him throw his gear in my truck. As you well know, things... they be a bit different in the big suck than they are on Smoke Bomb Hill or Bldg 4 at Benning. Particularly after the 2nd or 3rd tour.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-02-07 10:30|| 2009-02-07 10:30|| Front Page Top

#10 I've been there, my buddies have done SPTTs, I understand the frustrations but I'm not sure as I would've used the same verbage or started disparaging police chiefs in front of their subordinates. If these were all Marines it would be one thing, but dealing w/iraqis is a little different. You can get them to do what you want but as w/most things it's all in how you say it. Threatening to kick someone's ass in a formation is not that big a deal to me, but as soon as you start calling out their officers in front of the men you're probably off target. Threaten to kill them, fine, do it behind closed doors - they'll get the picture. One of my buddies had a huge bowie knife he'd pull out on occassion behind closed doors for effect. Compliance & motivation from there on out was solid amongst the locals.

Posted by Enver Snease aka Broadhead6 2009-02-07 10:30|| 2009-02-07 10:30|| Front Page Top

#11 Ha ! Standard plt. sarge lingo. Said and done frequently. Works for US soldiers because they have some pride and gumption. Won't work on these useless shitbags. They are ALL probably in Mahdi army, if you can call it an army. More like a criminal gang. Unfortunately, this gentleman probably got a ticket stateside, a reprimand in his file, or possibly a demotion. But I'll bet he doesn't give one shit. You could hear it in his voice. He's had a bellyful of these useless clowns and he's done with them. This should have happened at the highest level. Someone should have kicked the Clown Maliki in the sack, and after he got his breath back, said "listen up, F**knuts, we have a few issues to discuss." Course, nothing like this will happen, and nothing is gonna change in that shithole.

Posted by Woozle Elmeter 2700 2009-02-07 13:14|| 2009-02-07 13:14|| Front Page Top

#12 Hooah Woozle! You hit it dead on. Having it video taped was NO accident, it was a message to higher. I remember an incident years ago on North Fort Lewis where, after repeated warnings, a SGM got fed up with soldiers bringing their dogs to the Bn area and leaving piles all around to step in. One morning a young trooper was walking his Doby near the orderly room and the dog took a bite outta the SMG's leg. The SGM instructed the young trooper to bring the dog to the PT formation the following day. At the formation the SGM called the young soldier and dog front and center and in front of the entire Bn, he pulled a Browning High Power and PCS'd the dog to dog heaven. Caused quite a stir at Fort Lewis and resulted in the immediate reassignment of the SGM to Fort Bragg and retirement. The SGM accomplished his point quite effectively however and the unit commander went on to make General. Pay attention to your NCO's.

Posted by Besoeker 2009-02-07 13:41|| 2009-02-07 13:41|| Front Page Top

#13 Besoeker, Smoke Bomb hill, now that brings back some old memories...

Posted by 49 Pan 2009-02-07 14:08|| 2009-02-07 14:08|| Front Page Top

#14 hell i agree with everything he says. And he was spot on about some of them probably being in the mahdi army, i just wished he would have kckd the guys ass whop kept laughing and talking

Posted by rabid whitetail 2009-02-07 14:27|| 2009-02-07 14:27|| Front Page Top

#15 This was some time back. He did a good job with them. Tell it like it is.

Posted by newc">newc 2009-02-07 15:25|| 2009-02-07 15:25|| Front Page Top

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