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#1 Quite difficult for deceased war heroes or those bedding with their biographers to enter politics, always has been.
Posted by Besoeker 2012-12-16 03:38||
#2 "He wanted to start World War III by fighting the Russians."
He wanted to finish WWII properly. And he would have. Imagine the welcome American troops would have received in Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, the Baltics, Ukraine...
Posted by European Conservative 2012-12-16 04:44||
#3 Imagine the welcome the Soviet Steamroller would have provided the Americans. They had, what, 50 artillery pieces for each kilometer of front?
Posted by gromky 2012-12-16 07:19||
#4 Run over and crushed to death by a heavily laden manure wagon I heard. What are the odds it was just an accident.
And the Soviets of the time were ..how shall I say it...quite capable of that sort of thing. A lot of talent out there.
I remember a guy named Dubcek too. Whatever happened to him?
Posted by Threater Flusoper9823 2012-12-16 07:56||
Yes the Soviets had the artillery, but Americans had the air power.
Also loudly announcing that the Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine would be made free sovereign states would have faced Soviet artillery with another problem.. being shot in the back.
Posted by European Conservative 2012-12-16 08:06||
#6 But quantity had a quality all its own.
Americans did not want to be in Europe in 1941 and would not have been if Hitler had not been so stupid as to declare war on us. Staying there was not something we wanted to do either, but Stalin was equally stupid in playing his hand so clumsily. Now we have been the world's policeman so long no one remembers when we didn't want to be entangled in foreign alliances. Another gift from the anti-American FDR.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2012-12-16 09:08||
#7 Supposedly it was an accident that Patton himself covered up because he didn't want the guy who ran into him to have his life ruined. Supposedly.
Personally I think we're all looking for a conspiracy where there is none. Shit happens in wartime. All the rumors are just a coping mechanism that someone with so much damn potential and, in hindsight, vision died like that.
Posted by Charles 2012-12-16 11:57||
#8 Isn't this a little self-promoting?
Posted by Skidmark 2012-12-16 12:01||
#9 Woodring, slow down damn it! Listen closely, I can almost hear that Cadillac engine and over there is Neckarstadt, and....
Posted by Besoeker 2012-12-16 12:13||
Posted by SteveS 2012-12-16 14:27||
#11 Soviet archives supposedly had it down as a hit ordered by Stalin himself.
Posted by 3dc 2012-12-16 17:19||
#12 Adolf didn't war wid the USA in 1941 - thats why he was upset at Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor + locked himself in a room. IHO Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor made war wid the USA inevitable now - Nazi Germany's declaration was just a simple technicality.
Even presum that Nazi Germany didn't declare on the USA after Pearl Harbor, Japan as Germany's ally wanted German assistance, i.e. $$$ + arms + Troops, etc. to help defeat China. STALIN = USSR VERY LIKELY WOULD NOT HAVE HAVE TOLERATED NAZI GERMAN TROOPS IN CHINA UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, + DESPITE THE RUSSO-GERMAN NON-AGGRESSION PACT.
In addition, it is also highly likely that to secure its desired Oil-Rubber,etc. resources in SE Asia Japan would still had attacked the various Euro Colonies throughout East, South Asia - Brits [HK + Singapore + Malaya], French [Vietnam + French Polynesia], Netherlands [Indonesia], India, + Australia.
HITLER WASN'T STUPID - HE JUST WASN'T POLITICALLY, MEDIA = PR CORRECT [Fatalist?] IN HIS DECLARATION OF WAR AGZ THE US AFTER 12/07/1941.
As for Soviet Artillery, always remember that it was STALIN himself whom said that the USSR + Europe, in sole or combined, could NOT defeat Nazi Germany widout the USA.
Posted by JosephMendiola 2012-12-16 19:50||
#13 Gromky, 2 words: Atomic Bomb. Game Set Match.
Posted by OldSpook 2012-12-16 21:39||
#14 "IHO Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor made war wid the USA inevitable now - Nazi Germany's declaration was just a simple technicality."
Actually it wasn't. There was no treaty with Japan requiring that. After all Japan had attacked the U.S.
What is more Japan had actually let Germany down earlier when Germany attacked the USSR. The Japanese didn't even need to attack Siberia but only let the Soviets know that they could do so anytime. Thus Stalin would not have been able to bring in so many divisions from Siberia, which may have made the difference when the Germans could already spot the cupolas of the Kremlin cathedrals.
Hitler may not have been "stupid" but he certainly was delusional. His generals certainly didn't want war with the U.S. For good reason Hitler assumed supreme command over the Wehrmacht.
The U.S. would have reached Moscow within a few months. And yes, the bomb would have made the difference, but it might not even have been necessary. US air power would have been the decisive factor plus cooperation with Eastern European troops.
Posted by European Conservative 2012-12-16 22:30||
#15 @Gromky and EC
Marshall Zukov said that 80% (eighty percent) of Soviet Union's gunpowder was provided by the Allies. On the other hand don't dismiss the Red Air Force who was mopping the floor with the Luftwaffe.
About properly finishing WWII, I remind both of you the Allied armies were about one third the size of the Soviet forces. That meant that for a war with Soviet Union they would have required allying with the people who made Auschwitz. And forget about the "pure and innocent Wehrmacht": the Allies bugged the cells of German war prisoners and what they heard was pilots boasting of having shot strollers or strafing garden parties in England, of mass murders and rapes in Russia (rape was not punished in Russia). I repeat: they didn't lament, they boasted. It's true WWII was not properly finished: half the Wehrmacht should have been shot for war crimes. But both sides forgave "their" Germans because they needed them.
Posted by JFM 2012-12-16 23:36||