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2005-02-05 Iraq-Jordan

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Posted by Fred 2005-02-05 00:00:00|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "...Ankara could not stand idly by if Kirkuk fell into Kurdish hands."

Lol. Of course you can - and you will. You are not party to the situation in Iraq, Period. Full stop. Attend to your own affairs - stop trying to distract your citizen with this canard - they require your attention.

And, BTW, if the Kurds (which inhabit a rather sizable chunk of Turkey) chose to join their fellow Kurds in a new Kurdistan, well that would be peachy with most freedom-loving people. And your old empire would shrink a bit more. Life's a bitch, sometimes.

The Kurds have survived and maintained their identity under someone's boot-heel for 500 years. I'm beginning to think they are the most deserving group in all of the Middle East to get a shot at freedom and self-rule. And Kirkuk is definitely part of the majority Kurdish areas.

Sucks to be Turkey, today. Pissed away all of their goodwill, NATO capital, and US tolerance for a pig in a poke with France. Great job there, Tayyip. My sympathy reservoir is utterly dry.

Posted by .com 2005-02-05 12:24:38 AM|| 2005-02-05 12:24:38 AM|| Front Page Top

#2
The Kurds have survived and maintained their identity under someone's boot-heel for 500 years.

Longer, I believe. I read Xenephon's "March of the Ten Thousand" a few years ago, and at one point they had to walk through a mountainous area between the Euphrates plain and the Black Sea while being constantly harassed by fiercely independent, rather nasty locals. Not Islamic Kurds, but I'd bet they're ancestors.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2005-02-05 12:31:17 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-02-05 12:31:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 RC - Prolly right, bro. I dug up an authoritative timeline for them once (lost in 2 computer changes since, sigh) which showed that for more than 500 yrs they had been a continuous homogeneous population under the name of Kurds - so that was why I used that line. Truly a remarkable march through history to have maintained their identity as they have. And what they do with their freedom (under the no-fly zones, for instance) is very impressive. I'm amazed by them, considering everything they're endured.

Posted by .com 2005-02-05 12:41:07 AM|| 2005-02-05 12:41:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 com, Kurds are descendands of Medes, a north-western iranic folk related to Circassians of Northern Caucasus. They have been established as an ethnicity already at about 1100 CE (Saladin/Salah al Din Yusuf Ibn Ayyub -- 1137â1193). So it is more than 5 centuries, at least 9.

Posted by Sobiesky 2005-02-05 2:40:57 AM|| 2005-02-05 2:40:57 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Thanx, Sobiesky - I should have used Saladin as an anchor as it's an acknowledged fact he was a Kurd. Duh. Thanx, bro!

Posted by .com 2005-02-05 3:26:20 AM|| 2005-02-05 3:26:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Everyone thinks this Turkish anti-Kurd bandwagon is being pulled by the Islamist government but fail to recognize the influence here of the Armed Forces. Yes, there has been some reform such as taking away the automatic parliment seats to senior officers but the AF are still the real deal in Turkey even if it is pro-western, part of Nato and trying to get into the EU. To think that the AF in Turkey will sink back into political obscurity is to ignore their constant presence in stabilizing this country to the secular middle. It would not suprise me to see them back in the main picture soon if this kind of crap keeps up.

Posted by Jack is Back! 2005-02-05 6:22:54 AM|| 2005-02-05 6:22:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#7
The Kurds could relieve some of this tension by improving their relationships with the Turkmen in the area. One of Turkey's major concerns is to protect their own ethnic relatives in Iraq.
.

Posted by Mike Sylwester 2005-02-05 8:45:06 AM|| 2005-02-05 8:45:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 As usual, I suspect deeper meanings. Please note the *value* of the occassional Turkish mumbled threat: it is a continual pressure for the Kurds to remain part of a federal Iraq, a de facto Kurdistan, rather than having the emotional gratification of being a de jure Kurdistan, and having the enmity of Sunni and Shia Iraq, Turkey, Syria, *and* Iran. In other words, who benefits from this Turkish threat? The U.S.; *and* the saner heads among the Kurds who understand the value of federalism; *and* the Turks, who now value the Kurds as their second largest trading partner after Europe. It also keeps the Kurds in Syria, Turkey and Iran from going into open revolt in the hopes of breaking off their lands to join a greater Kurdistan, as onerous an idea as was greater Serbia 20 years ago.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-02-05 8:50:16 AM|| 2005-02-05 8:50:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Interesting point, Mike S.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-02-05 11:43:04 AM|| 2005-02-05 11:43:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 an actual opinion by MS! And a true one at that! Omens and Portentsâ¢ to be sure....

Posted by Frank G 2005-02-05 11:57:15 AM|| 2005-02-05 11:57:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 I concur Mike, that sounds like a logical ajenda for the Turks. Especially since borders between nations in that region IIUC are more permeable & not seen the same as borders in western countries. Or, it's just a ploy for a casus belli for the underlying economic situation. Or, maybe legitimately both?

Posted by Jeamp Ebbereting9472 aka Jarhead 2005-02-05 12:14:30 PM|| 2005-02-05 12:14:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I wouldn't dissmiss the Turkish concerns too quickly. If they say they will do something, they mean it. Secondly, from what I have read, the Kurds haven't exactly treated the Christians in Norther Iraq with much kindness or respect.

Posted by Phitle Phearong2964 2005-02-05 4:29:45 PM|| 2005-02-05 4:29:45 PM|| Front Page Top

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