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2007-11-10 China-Japan-Koreas
Chinese sub pops up in the midst of USS Kitty Hawk CBG
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Posted by Seafarious 2007-11-10 12:28|| E-Mail|| Front Page|| [859 views ]  Top

#1 I got the linky from Hot Air, where a commentor noted this story is at least a year old.

You'll note the PacCom at the time was Admiral Fallon, who did not get fired but put in charge of CentCom instead. Feh.
Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious  2007-11-10 12:43||   2007-11-10 12:43|| Front Page Top

#2 VERY old news.
Posted by logi_cal">logi_cal  2007-11-10 13:09||   2007-11-10 13:09|| Front Page Top

#3 HAHAHAHA, those Americans sooo stupid! Or is there more to this (old) story? Maybe the Chinese boat was undetected. Or maybe not. And if they were detected, is it an advantage to keep that secret, even at the cost of looking stupid?

I'm sure everyone is always following everyone else all around the ocean. We are not (officially) at war with China and there is probably some obscure maritime law against unprovoked attacks on foreign ships. So what to do when someone gets a little close? Drop an annoying active sonobuoy to let them know the game is over? Or maybe a hand grenade to scare the crap out of them?

Or continue playing the game. Your guys get some real-world practice and you get to see how your opponent operates - and how well. And they are none the wiser.
Posted by SteveS 2007-11-10 13:21||   2007-11-10 13:21|| Front Page Top

#4 SteveS may be on to something there. A google search shows the Kitty Hawk Strike Force CVN63 commanding officer Capt. Ed McNamee was relieved in a scheduled(?) change of command only this May 29th...and is moving on up:
"McNamee next reports to the Deputy Chief of Naval OperationsÂ’ office in Washington D.C. as head of the Air Warfare Division"

he also received his third Legion of Merit medal for his two years in command..

sounds like we may not have been so surprised....
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-11-10 14:16||   2007-11-10 14:16|| Front Page Top

#5 SteveS may be on to something there. A google search shows the Kitty Hawk Strike Force CVN63 commanding officer Capt. Ed McNamee was relieved in a scheduled(?) change of command only this May 29th...and is moving on up:
"McNamee next reports to the Deputy Chief of Naval OperationsÂ’ office in Washington D.C. as head of the Air Warfare Division"

he also received his third Legion of Merit medal for his two years in command..

sounds like we may not have been so surprised....
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-11-10 14:16||   2007-11-10 14:16|| Front Page Top

#6 oops - reposted without the google search link cuz it sent me to Mufflerman, sorry mods
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-11-10 14:18||   2007-11-10 14:18|| Front Page Top

#7 Hopefully so, Frank G. Or he may have been promoted out of harm's way. To do otherwise might have looked like he had failed in his mission... best to keep the ChiComs guessing.
Posted by Excalibur 2007-11-10 14:57||   2007-11-10 14:57|| Front Page Top

#8 I notice the Daily Mail seems averse to giving us a date on the incident.
Recent? It took me about two minutes to find out it was October 2006.
I wonder why that is?
Posted by tu3031 2007-11-10 15:44||   2007-11-10 15:44|| Front Page Top

#9 Steve has a plausible theory there. It's not likely that a commander would be advanced if he screwed up this badly. However if he paved the way to track the ChiCom subs then that would be a VERY big feather in their cap indeed.
Posted by Cyber Sarge 2007-11-10 17:28||   2007-11-10 17:28|| Front Page Top

#10 A submarine doesn't surface in the middle of someone else's exercise unless it has to. That sub was FORCED to the surface, probably by incessant "pinging" from sonar to MAKE it surface.

A sub breaking the surface within eyesight of our escort ships means the captain of the sub was humiliated somehow.

There are other ways for a sub to play the "I got within your defense picket" game such as taking a picture through the periscope and sending that to the US mission's military liason once the boat gets back to China.
Posted by crosspatch 2007-11-10 18:17||   2007-11-10 18:17|| Front Page Top

#11 Just to play Devil's advocate: Obviously they promoted him to make the Chinese think that their sub had been detected even though it really wasn't . . . . :-)
Posted by gorb 2007-11-10 18:20||   2007-11-10 18:20|| Front Page Top

#12 Crosspatch makes a point I was wondering about - why did they surface? Mechanical problems? The aforementioned hand grenade? Defection Red October style? Lead poisoning from cheap made-in-china manufactured goods? Inquiring minds...
Posted by SteveS 2007-11-10 18:41||   2007-11-10 18:41|| Front Page Top

#13 Don't suspect the best. I have been hearing for a while that the Kitty Hawk is close being regarded as the Jonah of the fleet. Its command staff are far more frequently relieved than is typical, and its nickname is "Shitty Hawk".

I also suspect that, to make matters worse, nobody wants to be the "last crew" of the Kitty Hawk before its scheduled retirement in 2008, for fear of that one last disaster that could take it to the bottom with all hands.

That level of superstition can be dangerous in and of itself.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-11-10 20:34||   2007-11-10 20:34|| Front Page Top

#14 It got the nickname 'Shitty Kitty' by the fleet because it's a lousy carrier to operate with.

As far as command staff being relieved, it's no worse than the rest of the Navy.

Given who was in charge at the time this occurred, I'd go with letting the Chinese sub 'play'; the escorts under orders not to engage in ASW (possible, depending on what the exercise was).
Posted by Pappy 2007-11-10 22:37||   2007-11-10 22:37|| Front Page Top

23:56 Frank G
23:49 Zenster
23:32 McZoid
22:37 Pappy
22:33 Jules
21:56 Zenster
21:51 trailing wife
21:50 Zenster
21:17 Andy Thrinegum8597
21:12 tu3031
21:10 JohnQC
21:05 trailing wife
20:58 g(r)omgoru
20:53 trailing wife
20:46 trailing wife
20:40 Glenmore
20:39 trailing wife
20:37 trailing wife
20:34 Anonymoose
20:24 trailing wife
19:51 Jules
19:43 lotp
19:37 Frank G
19:32 McZoid

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