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2010-03-25 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

Obama, Netanyahu meet in good atmosphere

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Posted by Fred 2010-03-25 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Of course they do. Obama is a wimp, he bows and kisses ass. He is only tough when the teleprompter tell him to be. The guy probably spent his childhood getting beat up by girls.

Posted by 49 Pan 2010-03-25 00:09|| 2010-03-25 00:09|| Front Page Top

#2 Good atmosphere means passive-aggressive nastiness. No photos, no public statement, no state dinner, just a quietly tense 90-minute conversation, the opportunity for Bibi to huddle with his peeps, then another quick meeting to demonstrate that he stood firm on his nation's principles, much to Obama's disappointment. As has been written elsewhere, this is how a recalcitrant, barely tolerated tyrant ought to be treated, not a long-time loyal ally.

Posted by trailing wife on the other computer 2010-03-25 00:39|| 2010-03-25 00:39|| Front Page Top

#3 This is it.
Despite bigotted statements from both Bambi and Hillary about their commitment to Israel's security - what they actually do now (twisting Bibi's arm and creating a hostile international atmosphere where Israel is blamed for everything) is a very clear indicator of where the POTUS and the White House are heading.
THEY HAVE DE FACTO ABANDONWED ISRAEL TO ITS DESTINY !
In my mind there are two important lessons to be learned from this:
1) The heavy damage has been already done - Any country which has ever been an Ally of the US should know that, as long as Bambi is POTUS, nobody is immune from being thrown to the dogs and being stabbed in the back. (and that includes Iraqis, Aphgans, south Koreans and anybody who thought that they were allys of the US. - This will teach everybody a lesson that the US cannot be trusted in the long term.

2) As Israel cannot tolerate an American Dictat and PAX AMERICANA jeopardizing the future existance of Israel - If I were Bibi I would be giving orders for putting the detonators on the nukes and zapping Iran RIGHT NOW because it is clear now that Bambi will not only not take any action on this but most probably will try to subvert any military action taken by Israel to neutralize Irans nuclear capabilities. He is leaving us no choice. We will not be able to use conventional bombings without full support and cooperation from the US army and USAF. Therefore we will have to use stealth and Nukes.

The US will have to deal with the consequences of pushing Israel into the corner. We refuse to roll on our backs and die for Bambi !

Posted by Elder of Zion 2010-03-25 04:01|| 2010-03-25 04:01|| Front Page Top

#4 Don't write off Israel just because Obama shits on them, they're tough and WILL use Nukes if needed.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2010-03-25 04:53|| 2010-03-25 04:53|| Front Page Top

#5 Benji is not going to put up with obamas crap.

Posted by newc 2010-03-25 06:44|| 2010-03-25 06:44|| Front Page Top

#6 The US will have to deal with the consequences of pushing Israel into the corner. We refuse to roll on our backs and die for Bambi! Posted by: Elder of Zion

I believe you are correct Rabbi. Soetoro anxiously awaits "the consequences." He desperately needs a huge internatioal crisis to overtake his failing economy and bankrupt presidency and reset the Greek columns for his international ascention. A crisis of the proportion will enable him to seize total control by setting the constitution aside, establish martial law, default on debt payments. As the smoke and horror of conflict subside, he will use his devoted media to become the world's unelected leader, arbiter of peace, and delator of nuclear weapons. His world apology and bowing tours clearly illustrated that America and the presidency are simply vehicles of power for this man, nothing more. His aspirations and goals lie far beyond our shores. Greed, quarreling, hatred, and social justice are his tools. Soetoro is little more than a modern day power hungry despot, cloaking himself as the leader of the Free World.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-03-25 06:56|| 2010-03-25 06:56|| Front Page Top

#7 If it were any other POTUS, I'd wonder if he's trying to push Israel into an alliance with Russia.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-03-25 09:37|| 2010-03-25 09:37|| Front Page Top

#8 You mean "back into an alliance with Russia".

Russia backed Israel until the mid-1950s, when it figured the Arab political market would be more lucrative.

Posted by Pappy 2010-03-25 10:21|| 2010-03-25 10:21|| Front Page Top

#9 Russia backed Israel until the mid-1950s, when it figured the Arab political market would be more lucrative.

And when it was told in explicit terms that Israel was not going to be a satellite.

Posted by JFM 2010-03-25 10:25|| 2010-03-25 10:25|| Front Page Top

#10 I'm surprised BO didn't invoke the "racist cop" invective to describe Netanyahu. Maybe Rahm Emanuel advised against this strategy. Of course there is the "retarded" comnment strategy. I think BO is still trying to offset the anti-semetic comment by Netanyahu's brother-in-law.

Posted by JohnQC 2010-03-25 10:38|| 2010-03-25 10:38|| Front Page Top

#11 So far I think Netanyahu is winning the war of words. The Israel people may have their backs up against a wall just as the American people do in the States.

Posted by JohnQC 2010-03-25 10:40|| 2010-03-25 10:40|| Front Page Top

#12 Russia backed Israel until the mid-1950s, when it figured the Arab political market would be more lucrative.

And nothing has changed since them, Pappy?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-03-25 10:55|| 2010-03-25 10:55|| Front Page Top

#13 Wasn't making an editorial statement, just putting it in historical perspective.

Posted by Pappy 2010-03-25 11:15|| 2010-03-25 11:15|| Front Page Top

#14 And nothing has changed since them, Pappy?

Even with President Zero in charge of the US, it's Russia that's the one who's providing Iran with a nuclear reactor.

At the moment all Iran has to do is detonate a gun bomb they made with the output of their centrifuges so they'll have a deterrent and announce that they're going to be reprocessing the fuel from that plant themselves and then they'll have access to missile-payload-appropriate plutonium.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-03-25 11:27|| 2010-03-25 11:27|| Front Page Top

#15 Let me make a prediction, TfSM. Before this all over, you will start thinking of Russia as an ally against the Muzzi-Tranzi alliance.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-03-25 12:06|| 2010-03-25 12:06|| Front Page Top

#16 The Russians did the geopolitical math in the 1950's. The math is still the same same in the 2010's. The numbers haven't moved in favor of Israel. Just the opposite. So by all means, embrace the bear. Maybe the Chinese would be interested? I hear they are also good at math.

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 12:24|| 2010-03-25 12:24|| Front Page Top

#17 Besoeker - that sounds like the Antichrist to me:

he will use his devoted media to become the world's unelected leader, arbiter of peace, and delator of nuclear weapons.

Posted by Bobby 2010-03-25 12:37|| 2010-03-25 12:37|| Front Page Top

#18 Ed,
That's exactly what I was saying in my post.
Push us a little bit further for the MASADA complex to kick in and suddenly you got your math 101 a bit complicated by entry of 300 nuclear warheads into the Equation.
OTOH, if Bambi thinks he can topple Bibi's gov'mint by a carefully concockted crisis he may end up facing a very different Israeli coalition than what he has in mind.

Posted by Elder of Zion 2010-03-25 12:48|| 2010-03-25 12:48|| Front Page Top

#19 EZ,
My contention is Israel won't attack Iran. They don't have the reach except maybe for a one off mosquito bite that will only backfire. Israel is too easy to reach by Iranian agents and surrogates. Israeli policy has been to goad the US to attack Iran in it's place, but the US isn't going to do it. Iran will get nukes and MAD will come to the middle east.

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 13:00|| 2010-03-25 13:00|| Front Page Top

#20 Ed,
Hmmmm... Interesting view ( BTW I don't know what is MAD, please enlighten me).
Your view is based on the assumption that Israel will have to use conventional Bunker Busters.
Well, how about sending a 100 Jerico missiles with strategic warheads to the fifty most worrysome Iranian targets? I am sure the mushroom forest and residual radioactivity will be sufficient to hold Iranian progress for at least 5-10 years.
As for the Iran proxies such as Hamas, Hizbullah and Syria, they will definitely react to such a strike (and I think the resulting war wont be easy for us- especially with Bambi's knife protruding from our back) but I think that part of the basic assumption is that if we do not do anything now they will attack anyhow within a couple of years but this time with an Iranian Nuclear Umbrella behind them - so it seems we do have a real incentive to strike first.
As for capabilities - we will have to see about that (soon enough I believe)- remember the syrian reactor ?

My take on this is : it may be better to become an International Pariah but live than to make Bambi happy now and get anyhillated 5 years from now (to the loud and mournfull protests of the international community -I'am sure).
How does that sound to you ?

Posted by Elder of Zion 2010-03-25 13:32|| 2010-03-25 13:32|| Front Page Top

#21 Straw man argument ed. Russians learned, the hard way, several things.
(1) "Muslim ally" is an oxymoron.
(2) Russia national interests consist of
(a) Having a bigger share of the oil market.
(b) Having a better military tech.
(c) Forcing USA to accept Russian definition of "zones of influence"

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-03-25 13:36|| 2010-03-25 13:36|| Front Page Top

#22 MAD = Mutually Assured Destruction
i.e. the Cold War nuclear stalemate

How many nukes can Israel absorb in return?. Saudi Arabia already has Pakistani built nukes on Chinese CSS-2 missiles. I also believe Iran has already weaponized several uranium bombs. They have had plenty of time to do it. Just their declared centrifuges (never mind most will be undeclared in underground tunnels) have the capacity for one bomb every 8 months or so. Missile delivery may be another matter at this moment but airliners and subs are doable. For Israel, nukes will have to be a last dying "fuck you".

The way the Democrats are rushing toward insane weakness, Israel may end up with a larger nuke arsenal then the USA.

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 14:00|| 2010-03-25 14:00|| Front Page Top

#23 Let me amend that last post. I do believe Israel will use battlefield nukes if they are about to be overrun in a multi-front war. But the geopolitical map will have to drastically change for that to happen. The surest way to do that is allying with the Russians or Chinese will do that. Right after they have drained Israel of any useful tech and Americans will have washed their hands of any further involvement with Israel.

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 14:14|| 2010-03-25 14:14|| Front Page Top

#24 Ed,
1) If what you say is right ( I dont believe that the Saudi's have nukes - but who knows ?), then this will be reason enough for Israel to start on a frenzy of manufacturing a bunch of 100 megaton hydrogen bombs just to clinch home the MAD concept.
2) However, MAD works in a world of westernized rational powers - not in a world infested with Turban wearing crazy Mullas who are more influenced by Fatwa's and zealotry ( Remember- This is Jihad- Suicide oriented cultures- not cold calculating rational Ruskies). MAD would not work in such a scenario !

The writing is on the wall - methinks

Posted by Elder of Zion 2010-03-25 14:14|| 2010-03-25 14:14|| Front Page Top

#25 Straw man argument ed. Russians learned, the hard way, several things.
(1) "Muslim ally" is an oxymoron.
(2) Russia national interests consist of
(a) Having a bigger share of the oil market.
(b) Having a better military tech.
(c) Forcing USA to accept Russian definition of "zones of influence"

1) true
2a) which has nothing to do with Israel or muslims, but Russian production capacity. Unless the Russians are going to goad Israel to go to war with the Arab oil producers to destroy their production facilities.
2b) So after the Israeli whore is used up, will Putin even bother leaving $20 on the dresser, let alone providing billions $ and the tech base and markets Israelis rely on?
2c) So ally with Israel and piss off the Arabs who control the price of oil and have the world's only real production buffer? Hello $20 oil. Smart!

Smarter to cultivate the muslim oil producers to raise oil prices. You say the Russians are already doing this with (Death to Israel!) Iran?

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 14:24|| 2010-03-25 14:24|| Front Page Top

#26 Ed,
You are naive to assume Israel can get the Russians or Chinese to cooperate on this.
Remember that the Russians and the Chinese have been torpedoing any serious International sanctions on Iran. Besides, A large part of the oil supply to China comes from Iran.
We cannot and will not get together with the Russian's or Chinese on the Iranian issue. We are totally on our own in this thing. That's why I consider a "Never Again" type scenario quite possible.
True - we do not want this to happen, but what can we do ? - I do not see any reasonable way out of this situation except for a devastating all out survival war.

Posted by Elder of Zion 2010-03-25 14:25|| 2010-03-25 14:25|| Front Page Top

#27 Elder says: I do not see any reasonable way out of this situation except for a devastating all out survival war.

That is a problem that these issues cannot be spearated from the fake geopolitical conditions of these moments. Israel should sell all of its territory to a coallition of arab states and withdraw to New Israel which could be effectively established on Gulf of Mexico using same desert territory as currently occupied from landowners in Mexico and US>

the cynical solutions reported throughout this thread reply list, show no awareness of possible alternatives to war and certain destruction.

Oil should not dictate US interests in mid east, oil isnt a fossill fuel and thus not scarce, israel can never overcome its placement amongst those who want her gone. The real coup would be to move the entire state over 20 years, sign the agreements and get peace with progression associated with resettlement. Israelis would under this scenario survive, and become a productive state in a world where dysfunction is replaced with rational action against which critics could be ignored.

Now, given the current status and alternatives, whose plan is better?

Posted by Thor Spegum8770 2010-03-25 14:50|| 2010-03-25 14:50|| Front Page Top

#28 Given that Ahmadinejad has vowed to get rid of Israel. Israeli's are all too familiar with such rhetoric from the past. They have to take such jingoism seriously and be prepared. The Russians are not trustworthy. The Chinese are not trustworthy. The U.S., under current conditions are flaky. I just don't see Israel allying with Russia or China. That leaves Israel with their backs against the wall. They have been here before. Unless they have some missiles that can deliver nuclear weapons beyond 1600 kilometers, they had better gear up the propaganda war big time. At the same time they had better develop long range bomber or missile capabilities--or buy missiles from someone else who is willing to sell them. I don't think their missile defense shield is invulnerable (or is anyone elses).

Posted by JohnQC 2010-03-25 14:50|| 2010-03-25 14:50|| Front Page Top

#29 How quickly we seem to jump from a tense environment to MAD. Israel did not survive this long by going nuclear every time they had a tough few years. They clearly undrstand that Zero will not support them in any way. They also understand that America is a long term supporter and will support them, eventually. Zero is a sore on the ass of a great nation. The sore will heal and go away. Israel will not trash its history with America, or trade it for one with the bear or dragon, over one ass hole president. They will wait him out, they are mature and undertand us better than we like to admit. I doubt they will go after Iran in a direct action manner, it would be foolish, even if we supported it. They will certainly turn up thier cladestine operations in Iran and around the world. Israel plays the long game and saves direct action for close in defence and uses extensive clandestine ops for every thing else. I would not be suprised to hear of more missing scientists, unexplained warehouse fires, overdoses in hotels, and aircraft accidents in Iran.

Posted by 49 Pan 2010-03-25 15:02|| 2010-03-25 15:02|| Front Page Top

#30 Ed,
You are naive to assume Israel can get the Russians or Chinese to cooperate on this.

That is my point EofZ. The opposite of Grom's "thinking of Russia as an ally against the Muzzi-Tranzi alliance".

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 15:08|| 2010-03-25 15:08|| Front Page Top

#31 2a) which has nothing to do with Israel or muslims, but Russian production capacity. Unless the Russians are going to goad Israel to go to war with the Arab oil producers to destroy their production facilities.

Russians are in business with Iran because they hope to desrupt PG oil production. However, Iran is interested in controling PG oil. Israel, on the other hand...

2b) So after the Israeli whore is used up, will Putin even bother leaving $20 on the dresser, let alone providing billions $ and the tech base and markets Israelis rely on?

(i) Tech development is a race which never ends.
(ii) Russia has a better record of supporting allies than some other superpowers I might mention.

2c) So ally with Israel and piss off the Arabs who control the price of oil and have the world's only real production buffer? Hello $20 oil. Smart!

With $20 barrel Arabs don't eat. USA could never grasp this simple fact---that's why you have USA servicemen dying in Iraq to make Iran regional superpower (and you can't blame this on Bambi).

And if it doesn't work out, there is always the Samson option.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-03-25 15:18|| 2010-03-25 15:18|| Front Page Top

#32 Russia has a better record of supporting allies than some other superpowers I might mention.

Two words: Warsaw Pact.

With $20 barrel Arabs don't eat.

Production cost of Persian Gulf oil loaded onto tankers: about $4/barrel. Oil in 2001: $20-25/barrel. With $20 oil Russians don't eat.

Posted by ed 2010-03-25 15:23|| 2010-03-25 15:23|| Front Page Top

#33 Having trouble connecting atm because of the maintenance...

Let me make a prediction, TfSM. Before this all over, you will start thinking of Russia as an ally against the Muzzi-Tranzi alliance.

I read that book; heck, I even think I got one of those "Buckman 2012 - In Accordance With The Prophecy" bumper stickers lying around here somewhere. BUT, I understand that the author was trying to write a dystopia (and pretty much succeeded).

The last time we allied with Russia it didn't really work out too well for us.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-03-25 18:00|| 2010-03-25 18:00|| Front Page Top

#34 Russia has a better record of supporting allies than some other superpowers I might mention.

There are no allies. Only interests.

Posted by Pappy 2010-03-25 18:54|| 2010-03-25 18:54|| Front Page Top

#35 EofZ,
better to become an International Pariah but live
Or as we say, 'better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.'

If it wasn't for the 'Holy' part of the Holy Land it would make great sense to just give the place to the Paleos and bring all the Jews to the US and give them Southern California.

Posted by Glenmore 2010-03-25 19:23|| 2010-03-25 19:23|| Front Page Top

#36 Russia has a better record of supporting allies than some other superpowers I might mention.

They might have a record of being constant in their supports of the elites of certain countries. For the people living in those countries, though, things can still be pretty sucky.

Take, for example, one of their allies in this hemisphere: Venezuela. Sure, Russia will help with all the low priced su-30's it can sell. But Venezuela's oil industry is much smaller than it was back in the 90's, an action that has benefitted the Arabs and Russians at the expense, generally, of the average citizen of Venezuela. (It's also one of the major factors in the rise of oil from the $ 20-30/bbl it was earlier this decade to where it is no, but that's a subject for another time).

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2010-03-25 23:16|| 2010-03-25 23:16|| Front Page Top

#37 I don't think any countries around Iran would miss them if they got blown off the map, except for Syria, Lebanon, and the folks in Gaza and the West Bank, who can't even turn around without their permission.

Posted by gorb 2010-03-25 23:19|| 2010-03-25 23:19|| Front Page Top

23:29 OldSpook
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22:26 wt
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22:15 Barbara Skolaut
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