Article

2010-05-07 Home Front: Politix

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by gorb 2010-05-07 04:24|| || Front Page|| [5 views ] Top

#1 Day, dollar.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-05-07 05:33|| 2010-05-07 05:33|| Front Page Top

#2 "It's better if I'm on the inside than the outside. So there's no point in my publicly criticizing him because then I won't have ~~influence~~."

......access to the loot!

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 06:02|| 2010-05-07 06:02|| Front Page Top

#3 "It felt so good to so many of liberals to be voting for the first black man to run for president that nothing else mattered," Klein says. "They felt good proving that they are not racist."

It's pathetic that some many adults can be so easily manipulated.

Posted by Bulldog 2010-05-07 06:14|| 2010-05-07 06:14|| Front Page Top

#4 Feelgood liberals doing something that not only harms themselves, but everybody. Now there's a surprise.

Posted by gromky 2010-05-07 06:18|| 2010-05-07 06:18|| Front Page Top

#5 If you think they've "turned against" Barry now, wait until the shooting starts in Lebanan and or Iran and Barry denies Iraqi overflight, rearming/refueling, and lets Israel twist in the wind. If that happens and Israel is pushed into the Masada mode, the nukes will begin popping! But I suppose this is will be just another "crisis" that the adminstration will exploit.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 06:35|| 2010-05-07 06:35|| Front Page Top

#6 the nukes will begin popping! But I suppose this is will be just another "crisis" that the adminstration will exploit. Should that happen, world relationships, economies, food supplies, etc. will be redefined. 0's people can ride that all the way down, just like Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2010-05-07 07:02|| 2010-05-07 07:02|| Front Page Top

#7 "prove they're not racist"?
Nobody knows how you vote but yourself. So you're only proving something to yourself. Which means you think it must need proving. Probably right.
This SURPRISE is all very well.
But at election time...no change.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2010-05-07 07:54|| 2010-05-07 07:54|| Front Page Top

#8 Polls aren't votes. Lots of American Jews supported communism even when it was viciously persecuting Jews in the Soviet Union--and they knew it.

Posted by Anonymoose 2010-05-07 08:12|| 2010-05-07 08:12|| Front Page Top

#9 Nearly all, well some 95% of the Bolsheviks and Menshevik Parties who overthrew the Tsar were Jewish, as were Lenin and Trotsky. Communism is not a new, political trend to some folks you see.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 08:32|| 2010-05-07 08:32|| Front Page Top

#10 Not true, Besoeker, and you're on thin ice with such a sweeping statement.

Jews in 1917 Russia were about 5% of the population. The Bolsheviks, Mensheviks and various SD's commanded the support of a substantial fraction of the Russian people: a fourth to a third, easily, at the time they took over. Your math is already out of whack.

The Jewish community in America has long been communalist: that is, their outlook has been one of looking after people in the community. That's partly their faith and partly the result of having been herded into ghettoes for a millennium or two. That's different than the usual notion of the founding American as a rugged individualist; and Democrats for a long time have been more communalist than Republicans. Jewish voters gravitated to the party that was more identified their their long-held beliefs.

I might also point out that at the time we had substantial Jewish immigration to the US, they were discriminated against by the power structure, particularly in academics and government. In that time, most of that power structure was Republican, and the Jews remember that.

So there are significant cultural reasons why Jewish Americans have tended to vote Democratic. Too bad Bambi doesn't get that; he's throwing away votes.

Posted by Steve White 2010-05-07 11:33|| 2010-05-07 11:33|| Front Page Top

#11 Many thanks for the course correction Dr. and explaining the millennial victims grudge factor. Damn those old racist Gentile history books anyway. If I hurry, I might be able to catch the postman in time to send a free will offering to Goldman Sachs to ward off the inevitable onslaught of guilt.

You call it "communalism" I call it collectivism. No matter, I have no problem paying retail for goods and services.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 11:49|| 2010-05-07 11:49|| Front Page Top

#12 I sure read something different out of that chart. In 1980 the Jewish vote was almost evenly split between Reagan and Carter, which I interpret as a reflection on arch-communalist Carter. Then the donk number climbs up. Why? I think it has less to do with their communalism than their fear of the evangelical ascendancy in the Republican party. If Huckabee ever got nominated, I'd bet he'd get less than 10% of the vote even against Obama.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-05-07 12:45|| 2010-05-07 12:45|| Front Page Top

#13 You call it "communalism" I call it collectivism. No matter, I have no problem paying retail for goods and services.

There is a big, big difference, Besoeker, and you are waaaaay out of line saying that, not to mention the second sentence. Please go fuck yourself.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-05-07 14:34|| 2010-05-07 14:34|| Front Page Top

#14 I note the biggest support was about when the Soviet Union fell apart and it stayed high after that point.

Posted by rjschwarz 2010-05-07 15:02|| 2010-05-07 15:02|| Front Page Top

#15 Whahahaa, no problem TW. Could it possibly be we have identified is part of the 'social justice' problem? Please ring me up will you, when these folks all become Methodists or Convert to Catholicism:

Barney Franks
Barbara Boxer
Dianne Feinstein
Harry Reid
David Axelrod, Senior Advisor to the President
Ben Bernancke
Jared Bernstein, Chief Economist and Economic Policy Advisor to the Vice President
Rahm Emanuel, Chief of Staff
Lee Feinstein, Foreign Policy Advisor
Gary Gensler, Chair of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Elena Kagan, Solicitor General of the United States
Ronald Klain, COS to the VP
Jack Lew, Deputy Secretary of State
Eric Lynn, Middle East Policy Advisor
Peter Orszag, Director of the OMB
Dennis Ross, Special Advisor for the Gulf and Southwest Asia to the Secretary of State
Mara Rudman, Foreign Policy Advisor
Mary Schapiro, Chair of the SEC
Dan Shapiro, Head of NSC Middle East desk
James B. Steinberg, Deputy Secretary of State
Lawrence Summers, Director National Economic Council
Mona Sutphen, Deputy White House COS
Geo Soros
Bill Ayers
Valerie Jarrett, protégé of Marilyn Katz

And many more.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 15:21|| 2010-05-07 15:21|| Front Page Top

#16 Congratulations, Besoeker. You've noticed that Jews, whether religious or ethnic/cultural, get involved in issues that matter to them. We're overrepresented in everything -- go make a list of Jewish scientists, or businesspeople, or philanthropists... or members of the PTA. That's the difference between communalism and communism by the way: one is voluntary and starts at the grass roots, the other coerced.

Why don't you go see how many Jews are involved in the tea parties? I imagine that the number of names that show up at the leadership level is highly disproportionate to the raw numbers there, too.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-05-07 15:32|| 2010-05-07 15:32|| Front Page Top

#17 Oft 'tis startling to reveal What the murky depths conceal

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2010-05-07 15:42|| 2010-05-07 15:42|| Front Page Top

#18 I don't know TW, other then Rod Carew you guys ain't exactly been holding up your end when it comes to sports...

speaking about weird social justice, I did enjoy in an embarrassing sort of way watching Carl Levin drop four letter words every other sentence at those bank execs last week on c-span...personally I think Levin sucks and I've tried voting him and Debbie 2-ton StabeCOW out as MI sens every election but at least the staged t.v. drama was entertaining.

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-05-07 15:42|| 2010-05-07 15:42|| Front Page Top

#19 Interesting discussion. Communalism v collectivism. I can see that one can be a communalist without being a socialist. Hopefully more Jewish voters will come to that realization.

Posted by KBK 2010-05-07 15:49|| 2010-05-07 15:49|| Front Page Top

#20 Weren't those 4-bombs mostly quotes from Goldman emails?

Posted by KBK 2010-05-07 15:51|| 2010-05-07 15:51|| Front Page Top

#21 Oh yes, more ethnic exceptionalism. Thank you for those lofty thoughts. Even as an average thinker I too can recognize medical, scientific, and scholarly achievement and excellence. I can also recognize ethnic and religious cabal. I'm not ready to send letters of apology to David Duke, but don't you see a common thread with the current economic and financial train wreck....ie, the current Administration, Congress, Wall Street? Tell me then, I must be as full of shit as a Christmas turkey.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 15:52|| 2010-05-07 15:52|| Front Page Top

#22 Broadhead6, once upon a time it was Jewish boys who ruled the basketball court, which was attributed to them being scrappier and quicker mentally than other groups. But organized crime and professional sports are the ways for the underclass to break in; American Jews haven't been underclass for quite some time -- our communal charities have made sure those who want an education can get it, that our poor are found jobs, and our widows and orphans are not left to starve.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-05-07 15:58|| 2010-05-07 15:58|| Front Page Top

#23 At the risk of revealing my age, and the years of my interest in Baseball, I'd note Hank Greenberg, Sandy Koufax and Ken Holtzman.

Jews, however, fail to carry their weight in the Federal Prison population.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2010-05-07 15:58|| 2010-05-07 15:58|| Front Page Top

#24 they largely got rubbed out of the organized crime syndicates by the Italians in the late 20's early 30's too...

i hate playing the 'us/them' thing... leaves a foul taste in my mouth... :S

Posted by abu do you love 2010-05-07 16:02|| 2010-05-07 16:02|| Front Page Top

#25 Whahahaa, no problem TW. Could it possibly be we have identified is part of the 'social justice' problem? Please ring me up will you, when these folks all become Methodists or Convert to Catholicism:

Compared to the rest of the population, on a per capita basis, more Jews are left-wing and liberal. But how is that the fault of Jews who are not left-wing and liberal? More blacks are violent criminals on a per capita basis than non-blacks. Is that the fault of the blacks who are not violent criminals?

This is how the Western tradition works (quoting KJV): "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." If the sins of the father should not result in the son taking the fall, how does it make sense to blame some random person for the sins of a complete stranger, just because they happen to have a common skin color or religion?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 16:10|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 16:10|| Front Page Top

#26 Wow Besoeker,

I had no idea Jews were such a danger to the proper order of the world. So, help me out, these guys were/are hidden jews, as well?

Barack Obama
Nancy Pelosi
Harry Reid
Bill Clinton
Hillary Rodham Clinton
Al Gore
John Kerry
John Murtha
Michael Moore
Harry Belafonte
Cynthia McKinney
Cindy Sheehan
Jimmy Carter
Richard J. Durbin
John F. Kennedy
Ted Kennedy
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Margaret Sanger
Louis C. Fraina

and the list goes on . . .

Posted by cingold 2010-05-07 16:15|| 2010-05-07 16:15|| Front Page Top

#27 My interp on the difference between collectivist vs communalist is that the collectivist doesn't believe in property rights (American jews I know don't fall into this category - minus the group of big gov't dems Besoeker pointed out).

As far as communalist vs socialist I think it's a slippery slope - voting as a majority for the party that raises taxes, is anti-2nd amendment & pro-welfare is not exactly increasing the freedoms of your neighbors, you're only voting on their rights and giving more power to the gov't and hoping for its benevolence. You can be passionate all you want, but if you're voting 80% of the time for the big-gov't party which legislates contrary to the beliefs of most of us on here then it's prolly an issue and worthy of debate. Further, I often found it interesting that so many jews would vote dem, (if you look at their history as a people as Steve W pointed out wrt to ghetto confinement), dems over the last 25 yrs have been wingnut wrt anti-2nd amendment, I would think that a people w/a history such as the jews would be fervently pro-gun ownership, (or the blacks for that matter). I would also think they'd have a healthy mistrust of big gov't as owned by the current crop of dems -- or Steve - did you mean they mistrusted the nor-east state govt's when they first arrived that were repub lead? At any rate, interesting info from all posters here.

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-05-07 16:18|| 2010-05-07 16:18|| Front Page Top

#28 I can also recognize ethnic and religious cabal.

So you think Larry Sommers is colluding with Harry Reid because they are both Jewish? I can't imagine you think there is a Jewish cabal to control physics or computer research... Has it occurred to you that the connections may be because of where people work rather than because of religion?

Besides, you didn't address our over-representation in the PTA. That's not a claim about being smarter, which it seems is your objection, but being more involved.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-05-07 16:20|| 2010-05-07 16:20|| Front Page Top

#29 I can also recognize ethnic and religious cabal.

NBA players are about 80% black (and probably majority Protestant). Is that an ethnic and religious cabal?

I think on average - relative to other ethnic groups on a per capita basis - blacks are born with better athletic abilities, and Jews are born with better cognitive abilities. Blacks and Jews are also more liberal, on average, than the rest of the population. This means that you will get more liberal black athletes and Jewish politicians (politics does require some intellectual horsepower, no matter how much we deride it).

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 16:23|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 16:23|| Front Page Top

#30 KBK, true, found it interesting that he seemed to enjoy saying it so much on nat'l tv. Kind of like a preening peacock or a braying ass.

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-05-07 16:26|| 2010-05-07 16:26|| Front Page Top

#31 For historical reasons, Jews in this country are deeply suspicious of southern and rural evangelicals and baptists and will never embrace wholeheartedly a party whose current heartthrob asserts that "America is a Christian nation". Christianity is fundamental to our history, sure, but it is not fundamental to any US public institution.

Such talk scares most jews in this country and reminds them why they refuse to rip up their Dem voter registration cards. A majority of Jews may ultimately vote against a left-wing Israelophobic Democrat, but they will not be voting for his GOP opponent.

Posted by lex 2010-05-07 16:32|| 2010-05-07 16:32|| Front Page Top

#32 Such talk scares most jews in this country and reminds them why they refuse to rip up their Dem voter registration cards. A majority of Jews may ultimately vote against a left-wing Israelophobic Democrat, but they will not be voting for his GOP opponent.

This makes no sense. Most European countries have Christianity as the official, state-sponsored religion. Do Jews in Europe not participate in the political process or try to get Christianity knocked off as the official religion there?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 16:39|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 16:39|| Front Page Top

#33 For instance, have British Jews ever tried to get the crosses of St. George, St. Andrew and St. Patrick knocked off the Union Jack? Maybe they could come up with a new flag that incorporates the Union Jack's colors without any crosses involved. Maybe they could propose a new British flag that looks like this one:

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 16:45|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 16:45|| Front Page Top

#34 Lex, pls indulge me as I'm a little dense. Are you saying that they'd just stay home during that sort of hypothetical election?

Posted by Broadhead6 2010-05-07 16:46|| 2010-05-07 16:46|| Front Page Top

#35 Most European countries have Christianity as the official, state-sponsored religion. Do Jews in Europe not participate in the political process or try to get Christianity knocked off as the official religion there?

Regardless of formal documents, in actual practice the current state religion of every European country save Poland is secularism. Ain't many jews left in Poland, or Germany, or France, or Italy, or the rest of Europe for that matter. They came here seeking to escape from political fanaticism that they and their children continue to associate more with Christian European anti-semitism chauvinists than with communist European anti-semitism.

Relatively few jews remaining in Europe do not participate in the political process to anything like the extent they do here. Those few jews ascending to senior political positions in Europe tend to be secular or left-wing and indifferent if not hostile toward Israel.

Posted by lex 2010-05-07 16:52|| 2010-05-07 16:52|| Front Page Top

#36 Regardless of formal documents, in actual practice the current state religion of every European country save Poland is secularism.

In current practice, tax dollars support European churches. Not via tax deduction for donations to churches, but via direct stipends from the government.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 16:55|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 16:55|| Front Page Top

#37 And there's no getting away from national flags with crucifixes on them, not to mention numerous national monuments with same that have been carefully tended at taxpayer expense for centuries.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 16:59|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 16:59|| Front Page Top

#38 Harry Reid is a Mormon. He set a new high-water mark in the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No other member of the LDS Church has served in a higher leadership position in Congress. His children are all active church members.

Oh no, a liberal Mormon cabal?!

Posted by cingold 2010-05-07 17:02|| 2010-05-07 17:02|| Front Page Top

#39 #29 I can also recognize ethnic and religious cabal.
NBA players are about 80% black (and probably majority Protestant). Is that an ethnic and religious cabal? Zhang Fei

Sorry, I don't follow "pro" sports. Recommend you ask Stanford Heisman Trophy winning running back Toby Gerhart.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 18:37|| 2010-05-07 18:37|| Front Page Top

#40 I read it NFL Zhang, duhhhhh my bad.

Posted by Besoeker 2010-05-07 18:42|| 2010-05-07 18:42|| Front Page Top

#41 If BO teed off the U.S. Jewish population because of his ~~seeming~~ favoritism towards muslims, his shabby treatment of Netanyahu, and his liking ~~for a presidential dictatorship~~ statism it might just translate into anti-Obama votes.

Debate is O.K. but some of it is off target.

Posted by JohnQC 2010-05-07 18:50|| 2010-05-07 18:50|| Front Page Top

#42 I imagine the ones that count are the big donors of time (get-out-the-vote and fund raising) and money. Given the entire 1.8% of the American population that is Jewish, votes given or withheld aren't going to make that much difference, not even in New York City or Florida.* And at least some of the big donors are screaming bloody murder, which is why President Obama has gone on his offensive charm offensive. I would have written that earlier, had I not been side-tracked by Besoeker's stupid hot-button pushing.

*I imagine most will go into the voting booth, and just not pull the lever for any of the presidential candidates if President Obama is running for reelection. Voting is a duty of citizenship, after all.

Posted by trailing wife 2010-05-07 23:00|| 2010-05-07 23:00|| Front Page Top

#43 Um, Harry Reid is (hypothetically) Mormon, not Jewish.

Posted by Secret Master 2010-05-07 23:15|| 2010-05-07 23:15|| Front Page Top

#44 Given the entire 1.8% of the American population that is Jewish, votes given or withheld aren't going to make that much difference, not even in New York City or Florida.

I'd have to agree. NY's been too liberal to go GOP for a while. The only state where members of the tribe would have made a difference is in FL, where Jews are 3.7% of the population, and Obama won 50.9 to 48.4. McCain would still have lost, even if he had picked up FL, on the strength of every single Jew voting for him (and even if every single Jew nationwide had voted for him). The unfortunate reality is that while liberal Jews were at the forefront of the hope and change movement, they were only following the zeitgeist, personified by Obama.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 23:26|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 23:26|| Front Page Top

#45 The attached chart does provide food for thought. If you look at the chart carefully, you'll note that more Jews supported the GOP in 2000, 2004 and 2008 than during the Clinton era. All this despite the fact that Obama was the first Democratic candidate to win a majority of the popular vote in decades. I suspect we will see a lot more members of the tribe speaking for and representing the GOP in the years ahead. The rest of America became more liberal. Jewish voters did not.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2010-05-07 23:47|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com 2010-05-07 23:47|| Front Page Top

#46 "The rest of America became more liberal. Jewish voters did not."

That is a matter of opinion. Many Jewish folk are non-practicing Jews, intermarrying outside the faith and copulating outside the faith. Young Jews may be more liberal than their forebears, despite what many Jews will lead the casual observer to believe.

Posted by Thrurt Barnsmell7160 2010-05-07 23:52|| 2010-05-07 23:52|| Front Page Top

23:56 Thrurt Barnsmell7160
23:52 Thrurt Barnsmell7160
23:51 Beldar Hupurong7350
23:48 Alaska Paul
23:47 Zhang Fei
23:31 JohnQC
23:26 Zhang Fei
23:25 JohnQC
23:22 JohnQC
23:16 JosephMendiola
23:16 trailing wife
23:15 Secret Master
23:15 tipper
23:08 trailing wife
23:00 trailing wife
22:52 anonymous_2u2
22:51 JosephMendiola
22:40 JosephMendiola
22:37 Frank G
22:16 Thrurt Barnsmell7160
22:08 JosephMendiola
22:04 twobyfour
21:56 Barbara Skolaut
21:55 ed