Article

2013-03-03 Caribbean-Latin America

Brazil to get first nuclear sub in 2023

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Posted by Steve White 2013-03-03 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views ] Top

#1 Politics, pure and simple. Someone owed the French a favor.

Strategically and tactically speaking, they would have been far better off going with one of the AIP based conventional boats that are being built. Something like the Japanese "Dragon" series (Soryu was the lead boat of the class). The newer construction un that series may give even US nuc boats and surface ships some problems if properly crewed and commanded. 84m, 4200 ton displacement, so hardly a small coastal bot - and the air indep drive gives them a lot of submerged time compared to a normal DE boat, and they are probably deadly queit when silent runnings, since they dont have to run any pumps to keep a nuclear teakettle cooled. Add to that the modern Japanese materials engineering, design expertise, and of course Japanese electronics and you probably have a pretty formidable attack boat. Certainly one suited to the task of patrolling the waters in and around Brazil and its maritime interests. So gotta be politics to waste all that money learning to build and operate a a nuc boat.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/2900ton.htm

Posted by OldSpook 2013-03-03 01:26|| 2013-03-03 01:26|| Front Page Top

#2 Then again, OS, that modern-style AI boat demands a lot: Japanese engineering, technology, etc. We could build one, so could the Brits, but the Brazilians? Even with technology transfers such a boat would have to built in Japan for the most part and delivered to Brazil.

Whereas what I think they want is an indigenous submarine industry at some point. Going nuclear is paradoxically easier: the technology has been around longer and it's more straightforward than the latest AI design.

So they buy some Scorpenes up front and start building their own submarine industry. This models what they did with their aircraft industry.

Posted by Steve White 2013-03-03 11:17|| 2013-03-03 11:17|| Front Page Top

#3 The Scorpenes I understand. The question is why a nuke boat instead of conventional DEs? Are they planning on running it against somewho in particular? Or are they looking to get nuke tech for other purposes besides subs?

Posted by SteveS 2013-03-03 14:37|| 2013-03-03 14:37|| Front Page Top

#4 The question is why a nuke boat instead of conventional DEs?
They want to deploy, project, be not seen in places unforeseen.

AIP is fine for coastal work, but to get where you want to be a long ways away requires power, nukes are pretty much the only way to make high speed transits. Altho the Brits had this weird K Class design which had a whole-hawg steam plant. Say what you will, it would move along at 24 knots, bring your own broom stick.

Posted by Shipman 2013-03-03 17:04|| 2013-03-03 17:04|| Front Page Top

#5 SteveS: They could be looking to become the Nuclear Power in SA the same way Iran is in the ME. It would make sense, largest country, most resources, I think largest Population. Brazil is making a move towards a first-class country and nuclear-military may be required in their eyes.

I also remember some hunky-dory talk between Iran and Venezuala. This could be a pushback against that.

Posted by Charles 2013-03-03 18:25|| 2013-03-03 18:25|| Front Page Top

#6 That's kind of an abnormally long long lead time, isn't it - can't Brazil find its own equivalent of ADM. Rickover or similar???

Iff Brazil = USA back in the day, I have no doubts Rickover would be having a serious fit.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2013-03-03 18:39|| 2013-03-03 18:39|| Front Page Top

#7 why on earth does Brazil need a nuclear-powered sub? this stretches credulity beyond all limits. some Brazilian admiral has been mixing too much rum with his lime juice.

Posted by Raider 2013-03-03 19:32|| 2013-03-03 19:32|| Front Page Top

#8 ...The Scorpenes will be used mostly to give the Brazilians experience with modern SS ops. The SSN they eventually get will be a Barracuda class SSN with an export sensor rig built in France. The Brazilians have run a thoroughly above-board nuclear program for many years, and they're perfectly within their rights to set one up.

Now, why do they want one? Quite simple: the USN is going away. The Brazilians have been a regional level superpower for decades now. Their navy is well equipped and trained, and though we diverge pretty widely in political terms, strategically both nations have pretty much the same goals. They know that the USN will not be there the way it has been in the past, and somebody has to take up the slack. If a few SSNs make them the Big Kids On The Block, then so much the better.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2013-03-03 20:04|| 2013-03-03 20:04|| Front Page Top

#9 They want to deploy, project, be not seen in places unforeseen.
Posted by Shipman

Brazil is making a move towards a first-class country...
Posted by Charles

I've been pondering the comments above (thanks, guys!) and finally came to the same conclusion as Mike: the USN is going away.

Once upon a time, America provided security guarantees and safety of the sea lanes. Nobody believes that anymore. You may not like the cop on the beat, but without him, the neighborhood becomes a more dangerous place.

Posted by SteveS 2013-03-03 22:26|| 2013-03-03 22:26|| Front Page Top

23:35 Abu Uluque
22:55 Procopius2k
22:50 Procopius2k
22:26 SteveS
22:24 JosephMendiola
22:16 JosephMendiola
21:38 Mike Kozlowski
21:05 Rjschwarz
20:59 Rjschwarz
20:04 Mike Kozlowski
19:51 Zhang Fei
19:32 Raider
19:31 Zhang Fei
19:29 trailing wife
19:25 USN,Ret.
19:02 JosephMendiola
18:56 JosephMendiola
18:50 JosephMendiola
18:44 Charles
18:42 Charles
18:41 JosephMendiola
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18:39 Barbara
18:39 JosephMendiola