Article

2015-11-24 The Grand Turk

Tensions rise after Turkey shoots down Russian jet, says it will take the issue to the UN, NATO

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Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 06:47|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 Russia in Turkish airspace, was warned 10 times in 5 minutes.

the stupid factor of having Turkey in NATO now means if Russia retaliates then we are at war with Putin

Note also -- interesting for another reason

Putin has been violating airspace from Portugal to Scotland..... if the jets start getting shot down perhaps this might end

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 06:51|| 2015-11-24 06:51|| Front Page Top

#2 UPDATE - Russia denies it was in Turkish airspace

NATO calling emergency meeting in a couple of hours

NOTE - all Erdogan the Islamist has to do is set Nato to war against Russia and then the Caliphate gets its enemies to fight each other instead of Islamist fascism

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 07:31|| 2015-11-24 07:31|| Front Page Top

#3 Just kick Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his Turkey of a a nation out of NATO and let Russia have at his Islamic Muslim Brotherhood ass.

Posted by 3dc 2015-11-24 07:34|| 2015-11-24 07:34|| Front Page Top

#4 UPDATE - one of the russian pilots is said to be dead

from the Guardian (enemedia but sadly has a good update page)

A spokesman for the Syrian rebel group which claimed to have captured a Russian pilot whose plane was shot down over northwestern Syria says he was dead upon landing, AP reports.

Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast said that the two Russian crew members tried to land in their parachutes in government-held areas after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group.

He adds that rebels shot one of the pilots, who landed dead on the ground on Tuesday.

The fate of the second pilot was not immediately known.

The group released a video showing gunmen standing around a blond pilot whose face was bruised and appeared dead.

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 07:39|| 2015-11-24 07:39|| Front Page Top

#5 Thanks for staying on top of this for us early in the American morning, anon1.

Posted by trailing wife 2015-11-24 07:48|| 2015-11-24 07:48|| Front Page Top

#6 no worries TW

UPDATE - Twitter video here said to be of russian pilot. Note - you need to sign up for twitter

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 07:59|| 2015-11-24 07:59|| Front Page Top

#7 Yesterday's post on 5 triggers to WWIII seems to have a new immediacy now.

Could Obastard have stewed up a bigger mess of $hit in the world than he has done? Maybe he needs to tell Putin to press that reset button.

Posted by AlanC 2015-11-24 08:03|| 2015-11-24 08:03|| Front Page Top

#8 UPDATE- alleged flight path of russian jet also on twitter here

ps - in above link to video allegedly of downed russian pilot. He is dead. There is no parachute suggesting he survived landing and was killed or died after. The turbans are yelling allahu akhbar and russki russki. (via reddit)

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 08:03|| 2015-11-24 08:03|| Front Page Top

#9 Fish-hooks check
Pennacillin check
Whiskey- um, Hummm who been in the emergency Rum?
Bong - Where it is?

Srsly tho, my hair stood on end reading the headline.

Posted by Shipman 2015-11-24 08:08|| 2015-11-24 08:08|| Front Page Top

#10 UPDATE - via bellingcat which has lots of good info - id Russian pilot as being from Latakia by his helmet

for those without twitter - YouTube video of Russian pilot, clearer but WARNING - GRAPHIC

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 08:11|| 2015-11-24 08:11|| Front Page Top

#11 Well, looks like the discussion on here from yesterday is coming to fruition.

Posted by chris 2015-11-24 08:18|| 2015-11-24 08:18|| Front Page Top

#12 I see, after the dust settles, Turkish Kurdistan as no flight zone.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-11-24 08:27|| 2015-11-24 08:27|| Front Page Top

#13 p.s. Su-24 is a bomber, not a fighter.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-11-24 08:35|| 2015-11-24 08:35|| Front Page Top

#14 Rooshuns are saying it was their SU-24 bomber, hit while flying at 18,000 feet (6,000 meters)

The Rooshuns claim it was flying in Syrian airspace and that both pilots ejected.

The MoD insists it was hit by ground fire.

The SU-24 is one of the oldest military aircraft still in use.

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 08:35|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 08:35|| Front Page Top

#15 Hmmm. Bomb the only party that is fighting Daesh on the ground. Withhold any support to the Kurds especially when they fight Daesh close to the Turkish border. Next, enable a flood of "Syrian refugees" to swarm Greece and Western Europe, directly leading to terror attacks in Paris, and a complete shutdown of Brussels. Next, shoot down a Russian bomber while it is attacking Daesh and other Islamofascists.

One would legitimately think Turkey is on the side of Daesh.

NATO will have to choose which side it's on. One should also consider the Turkish treachery during Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Posted by si vis pacem, para bellum 2015-11-24 08:48|| 2015-11-24 08:48|| Front Page Top

#16 NATO have no militaries and we have no CiC.

We are well and truly hosed.

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 08:53|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 08:53|| Front Page Top

#17 Well to me this proves that Turkey is actively and openly supporting ISIS.

I say its time to show Turkey the door.

They are running contrary to NATO and are actively supporting groups that are attacking NATO members SOOOO..........

Just sit back and watch Putin send a cruise missile or two into Erdogan's Villa's back yard.

Posted by Mystic 2015-11-24 09:00|| 2015-11-24 09:00|| Front Page Top

#18 SU-24 is way younger than our B-52.

Posted by Glenmore 2015-11-24 09:00|| 2015-11-24 09:00|| Front Page Top

#19 Hard to argue with that. The question is how will he respond, and how will NATO respond if Turkey is attacked. There is potential here for very bad things - see Sarajevo, 1914 - though I doubt we will see a NATO response to a Russian retaliation against Turkey beyond a harshly worded letter. That, of course, would further embolden Putin to do whatever he wanted (in this case, slapping Erdogan is fine with me, just on general principles.) (copied from different thread.)

Posted by Glenmore 2015-11-24 09:01|| 2015-11-24 09:01|| Front Page Top

#20 So the Muzzie ground forces admit shooting at the parachuting Russians - isn't that a war crime?

Posted by Glenmore 2015-11-24 09:02|| 2015-11-24 09:02|| Front Page Top

#21 UPDATE - Russian citizens have found one of the YouTube videos showing the jihadis celebrating with their allan snackbars.

There is a torrent of cyrilic alphabet hate. But from what is in English, here is a sample - *Russia should nuke Turkish gypsies. And if USA will try to invade Russia then Russia should nuke USrael too*

or

*once upon a time was a country with name turkey*

I think it is safe to say the Russian public response to the images of their fighter pilots busted up, dead and surrounded by allan snackbars jubillating and pointing at the sky is going to be enraged

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 09:13|| 2015-11-24 09:13|| Front Page Top

#22 I hope that the JCS can stop our Muslim Brotherhood Prez Obama from siding with Turkey.

Posted by 3dc 2015-11-24 09:19|| 2015-11-24 09:19|| Front Page Top

#23 We're about to find out if Obama is more Muslim than Marxist. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Posted by Procopius2k 2015-11-24 09:26|| 2015-11-24 09:26|| Front Page Top

#24 Why P2K: Islam & Marxism (revenge against betrayers of world revolution) go together here. So, it's no question.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-11-24 09:31|| 2015-11-24 09:31|| Front Page Top

#25 UPDATE -
there are reports (and images) of the alleged downing of Russian helicopter involved in the rescue of the Su-24 aircrew

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 09:40|| 2015-11-24 09:40|| Front Page Top

#26 Well, I guess you're right, given that all seek the 'fundamental transformation' of America. This is their opportunity. Fallout 5 - coming to your neighborhood.

Posted by Procopius2k 2015-11-24 09:41|| 2015-11-24 09:41|| Front Page Top

#27 UPDATE - from Bellingcat twitter feed - crew from downed rescue heli was evacuated by other helicopter. Then RUS air force destroyed wreckage.

PUTIN - in his statement has accused Turkey of funding and supporting Islamic State, said the oil is bought by Turkey -> financing terrorism. Said nothing should be left alive on the ground where the russian jets were shot down if it is true the pilots were killed. Said turkey are accomplices of terrorism. Called it a *stab in the back* - and said they ran off to NATO as if Russia had shot down a Turkish jet. -- all this is second hand off bellingcat twitter feed

Link to Putin actual live YouTube webcast is here

Posted by anon1 2015-11-24 09:57|| 2015-11-24 09:57|| Front Page Top

#28 Putin isn't just protecting Assad, he's going to re conquer Syria for Assad and take out all resistance, even non ISIS and western back rebels, and that might mean WW3 because Turkey won't want Assad to take back lands that are currently free and run by Ethnic Turks.

Posted by Sneanter Uliger4939 2015-11-24 10:01|| 2015-11-24 10:01|| Front Page Top

#29 Does anyone know if Turkey could be throw out of NATO? There's no reason for them to be in anymore and they are going to cause more trouble. Indeed, it's time to rethink NATO itself.

Posted by Spot 2015-11-24 10:10|| 2015-11-24 10:10|| Front Page Top

#30 That was quick. When we were talking about it yesterday, it all seemed so...theoretical.

Posted by SteveS 2015-11-24 11:00|| 2015-11-24 11:00|| Front Page Top

#31 The problem is we should have tossed Turkey out of NATO years ago. It's awkward to discuss such things on the eve of war. Enemies will see that as weakness in the alliance.

Having said that, if Turkey did shoot the plane down in Syrian airspace perhaps that is all that is necessary to dump them.

Or dissolve the whole thing and structure a new treaty with the Anglosphere instead.

Posted by rjschwarz 2015-11-24 11:08|| 2015-11-24 11:08|| Front Page Top

#32 It is reported that both of the pilots have been executed in there parachute harnesses, and that a Russian search and rescue helicopter sent after them has also been shot down.

I would wholeheartedly support Putin conducting a annihilation bombing campaign along the Syrian/Turkey border, using cluster munitions and thermobaric bombs, to reduce the local surviving population into babbling, shell-shocked recluses.

Posted by Lone Ranger 2015-11-24 11:08|| 2015-11-24 11:08|| Front Page Top

#33
One would legitimately think Turkey is on the side of Daesh.

NATO will have to choose which side it's on.

Yeah. That's not really clear, is it?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2015-11-24 11:24|| 2015-11-24 11:24|| Front Page Top

#34 From a Facebook thread on this very matter:

Turkey (or at least, Erdogan's Turkey, let's say) is pissed off because

1) The Russians are hitting Daesh's "oil pipeline" to Turkey, which profits greatly some Turkish element, including apparently young Bilal Erdogan;

2) Kurdish forces are pushing back de facto Turkish ally Daesh and cutting its logistic lines, as well as creating a viable prot-Kurish State, something that Turkey simply does not want to happen;

3) Russian planes are providing CAS for loyalist fighting back a new push by Turkmenes rebels, backed by Turkey (up to and including artillery support): Turkey has declared an unilateral 15 km/10 miles NFZ into Syria, and this is their ground for claiming airspace violation and repeated warnings during 5 minutes (from their own flight radar pictures, the Russian plane never left Syrian airspace, and only overflew a 2 km wide Turkish "promontory" into Syria, IE a 10-15 secondes max overflight).

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 12:43|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 12:43|| Front Page Top

#35 That's a good assessment there badanov

Posted by Rex Mundi 2015-11-24 12:48|| 2015-11-24 12:48|| Front Page Top

#36 I suspect the Russian response to their pilots being executed will be rather more robust than our response to either a) our Libyan ambassador being executed and dragged through the street or b) our troopers in Mogadishu being shot and dragged through the street.

Posted by Steve White 2015-11-24 12:51|| 2015-11-24 12:51|| Front Page Top

#37 I think Badanov is on it: the Kurdish angle here is the one that I think drives Erdogan more than anything. The Kurd politicians in Turkey actively opposed him in the last two elections and were a key part of the coalition that won the June election. Erdogan has hit the PKK hard over the years and has pursued them into Iraq and Syria. The Syrian Kurdish revolutionary group is an out-and-out enemy to the Turks.

So if the Kurds are fighting ISIS, Erdogan will be sympathetic to the latter just on principles.

Posted by Steve White 2015-11-24 12:54|| 2015-11-24 12:54|| Front Page Top

#38 From Russian military journalist Boris Rozhin's blog, a graphical representation of the area of operation and encounter. The red dotted lines are the Russian aircraft's path.

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 12:57|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 12:57|| Front Page Top

#39 Anon 1's tube at #10

Russian pilots do not wear helmets? mmmhmmm.
Also, FSA? Are they not the ones who are supposed to be fighting ISJV?

Posted by swksvolFF 2015-11-24 13:03|| 2015-11-24 13:03|| Front Page Top

#40 Those comments are not mine, BTW. Sorry.

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 13:04|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 13:04|| Front Page Top

#41 Jeebus, president selfie is farting in the bathtub again.

Cutting off supply lines, reducing influx of foreign fighters - sounds like Turkey.

Expel Turkey from NATO.

Posted by swksvolFF 2015-11-24 13:10|| 2015-11-24 13:10|| Front Page Top

#42 With this act of provocation, or war, whichever you believe, you gotta wonder which side Turkey is on in this conflict.

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 13:15|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 13:15|| Front Page Top

#43 you gotta wonder which side Turkey is on in this conflict

You do?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-11-24 13:22|| 2015-11-24 13:22|| Front Page Top

#44 Turkey is on Turkey's side.

Was the supposed intrusion into Turkish airspace, or that funny little NFZ declared the other week?

Posted by swksvolFF 2015-11-24 13:56|| 2015-11-24 13:56|| Front Page Top

#45 3dc you are too late. Obumbles has sided with Turkey. It's very obvious whose side he is on.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2015-11-24 14:16|| 2015-11-24 14:16|| Front Page Top

#46 If I was Putin I'd take up the cause of Kurdish independence. It might be logistically complicated but the idea will make Johnny Turk shat himself.

Posted by rjschwarz 2015-11-24 15:08|| 2015-11-24 15:08|| Front Page Top

#47 Obama is consistent in his support of Daesh

Posted by Rex Mundi 2015-11-24 15:17|| 2015-11-24 15:17|| Front Page Top

#48 Mark my words from yesterday. It will be Turkey trying to stop Russian ships on their way to Syria, transiting the Bosphorus that will be the real trigger. Putin absolutely will not tolerate that.

Posted by phil_b 2015-11-24 15:40|| 2015-11-24 15:40|| Front Page Top

#49 Russian Federation MoD said emphatically their aircraft were in Syrian air space the whole time, and that Turkey interceptors made no effort to contact the Russian pilots. A SAR mission mounted using Russian marines was fired on by Syrian rebels, forcing two birds down, one of which was destroyed by rebel mortar fire.

Posted by badanov 2015-11-24 16:02|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2015-11-24 16:02|| Front Page Top

#50 Good times. Good times.

Posted by Frank G 2015-11-24 16:06|| 2015-11-24 16:06|| Front Page Top

#51 RT,

“This incident shows for the first time that we are to dealing with an actor who is unpredictable according to statements from various parts of the region – that is not Russia, that is Turkey,” Gabriel said, as cited by DPA news agency. He added that Turkey was playing “a complicated role” in the Syrian conflict.

A clear message Turkey is on its own on this.

Posted by phil_b 2015-11-24 16:32|| 2015-11-24 16:32|| Front Page Top

#52 Obumbles has sided with Turkey. It's very obvious whose side he is on.

As long as it a war of words. How long do you think it remain this way?
Russia has either to give up it's dreams of restored superpower status, or make roast Turkey.

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2015-11-24 16:47|| 2015-11-24 16:47|| Front Page Top

#53 And if you can't believe Russian state media...

The Turks have a good excuse... they should just say they mistook the Russian jet for a Malaysian passenger plane.

Posted by European Conservative 2015-11-24 18:19|| 2015-11-24 18:19|| Front Page Top

#54 Will Russia roast some Turkey for Thanksgiving?

(Had to do it.)

Posted by charger 2015-11-24 18:56|| 2015-11-24 18:56|| Front Page Top

#55 Turkey is about to be stuffed.

Posted by BrerRabbit 2015-11-24 19:06|| 2015-11-24 19:06|| Front Page Top

#56 At #48: no Putin won't tolerate it. There is an international treaty that governs Rooshun ships transiting the Bosporus (The Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits, a 1936 agreement). That treaty gives the Russians guarantees that permit passage of their military ships specifically. Closing the Bosporus to them would be a clear treaty violation.

Posted by Steve White 2015-11-24 19:30|| 2015-11-24 19:30|| Front Page Top

#57 Closing the Bosporus to them would be a clear treaty violation.

*Then* could we kick Turkey out of NATO? Because I can see Erdogan doing this to establish his Islamic bona fides and to show he isn't a puppet of the West.

Posted by SteveS 2015-11-24 19:48|| 2015-11-24 19:48|| Front Page Top

#58 wikipedia,

In April 1982, the Convention was amended to allow Turkey to close the Straits at its discretion in peacetime as well as during wartime.

Posted by phil_b 2015-11-24 20:06|| 2015-11-24 20:06|| Front Page Top

#59 Badanov on his comment #34, IMHO is spot on the mark. ISIS oil flows through by and large into Iraq through Mosul or through Turkey in multiple smuggling routes. So someone in Turkey is losing his share of cut.

Turkey is sticking it to the EU because they were not allowed in. So they transit refugees, migrants, and jihadies on a flood. Another means of getting fees for transit.

Erdogon wants to set his country up as the Ottoman Empire V2.0 leader of the Muslims etc etc. IOW, the care and feeding of the hungry ego. He is setting himself up for a fall.

Putin can make Erdogon's life a living hell from many fronts. The PKK could use materiel, all right. Proxy covert ops could raise all kinds of mischief----------or worse. Turkey has been playing all sides and it is catching up with her.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2015-11-24 20:38|| 2015-11-24 20:38|| Front Page Top

#60 Russia is soon going to run out of routes to pipe their gas to Europe.

Posted by bbrewer126 2015-11-24 21:14|| 2015-11-24 21:14|| Front Page Top

#61 May you live in interesting times! Moscow: Just hours after the downing of a Russian warplane by the Turkish air force on Tuesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called on Russian citizens not to visit Turkey for tourism or any other purpose for the time being. He added that he was cancelling his scheduled trip to Istanbul for a meeting with his Turkish counterpart.
The stopping of Russian tourist visits to Turkey would be a major blow to the Turkish economy, as millions of Russians visit the country each year.
Ankara says that the Su-24 jet violated its airspace, while Moscow claims it was shot down in Syrian territory.
http://www.debka.com/…/Russians-should-avoid-travel-to-Turk…-

Posted by 3dc 2015-11-24 22:06|| 2015-11-24 22:06|| Front Page Top

#62 Must be hard on VladVedev to resist the historical Russian, Tsarist, or even Soviet urge to invade Turkey???

Trade, + now add Oil-Gas = Pipeline-istan to the mix.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2015-11-24 23:04|| 2015-11-24 23:04|| Front Page Top

23:41 JosephMendiola
23:29 JosephMendiola
23:27 newc
23:24 JosephMendiola
23:22 JosephMendiola
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23:20 trailing wife
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:11 JosephMendiola
23:07 JosephMendiola
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22:58 JosephMendiola
22:48 JosephMendiola
22:40 JosephMendiola
22:06 3dc
21:14 bbrewer126
20:38 swksvolFF
20:38 Alaska Paul
20:30 swksvolFF
20:09 Sven the pelter
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