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2008-09-14 India-Pakistan

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Posted by john frum 2008-09-14 00:00|| || Front Page|| [1 views ] Top
File under: Govt of Pakistan

#1 We need to secure the nukes, if we can, and let Pak go into the abyss, which they will do, anyway.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2008-09-14 00:26|| 2008-09-14 00:26|| Front Page Top

#2 The "moderates need to start killing these animals so we don't have to. Clean up your own mess and we'll be satisfied, but the mess will be cleaned up, one way or another.

Posted by Sleack Guelph4631 2008-09-14 00:43|| 2008-09-14 00:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Ashfaq Kayani - Why isn't he a hellfire target?

Posted by 3dc 2008-09-14 01:10|| 2008-09-14 01:10|| Front Page Top

#4 That Pakistan exists is an affront to the civilized world.. That the US government has paid more than $10 billion in direct aid and billions more for sponsoring the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks is an abomination.

Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh
The Wall Street Journal was one of the only Western news organizations to follow up on the story, citing the Times of India: "US authorities sought General Mahmud Ahmed's removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 was wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by Ahmad Umar Sheikh at the instance of General Mahmud."[3] Another Indian newspaper, the Daily Excelsior, quoting FBI sources, reported that the "FBIs examination of the hard disk of the cellphone company Omar Sheikh had subscribed to led to the discovery of the "link" between him and the deposed chief of the Pakistani ISI, Mahmud Ahmed. And as the FBI investigators delved deep, sensational reports surfaced with regard to the transfer of 100,000 dollars to Mohammed Atta, one of the kamikaze pilots who flew his Boeing into the World Trade Center. General Mahmud Ahmed, the FBI investigators found, fully knew about the transfer of money to Atta."[4]

Posted by ed 2008-09-14 01:25|| 2008-09-14 01:25|| Front Page Top

#5 Oh yeah, kill the US invaders. This is such a colossaly bad idea it could only come from a place like Pakistan.

Posted by SteveS 2008-09-14 01:32|| 2008-09-14 01:32|| Front Page Top

#6 US Order To Kill Pakistan al-Qa'ida and Taliban.

that's the real headline.

Posted by Betty Grating2215 2008-09-14 02:43|| 2008-09-14 02:43|| Front Page Top

#7 Pakistan order to ~~kill US invaders~~ protect terrorists. There fixed.

Posted by 49 Pan 2008-09-14 04:59|| 2008-09-14 04:59|| Front Page Top

#8 I'm a little more cynical.

It's possibly a ruse to let Pakistan get more troops into pro-taliban areas.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2008-09-14 05:29|| 2008-09-14 05:29|| Front Page Top

#9 It does look like the Pak army has stepped up the pace a bit - at least according to the article.

Posted by Bobby 2008-09-14 06:21|| 2008-09-14 06:21|| Front Page Top

#10 Give them another couple of billion dollars. We respect the borders of sovereign countries.

Posted by Freedom Squeaks 2008-09-14 06:29|| 2008-09-14 06:29|| Front Page Top

#11 Use one 'nym, Freedom/PeaceSqueaks. We welcome vigorous debate here, cherish well honed snark and ban tendentious trolls when we get tired of them. Which lately tends to be pretty soon after they appear. -- The Mods

Posted by lotp 2008-09-14 07:47|| 2008-09-14 07:47|| Front Page Top

#12 I've noticed you guys are a bit trigger happy. My folks need a little OJT. C'mon, help a guy out. Training budgets aren't what they used to be since the price of oil fell below $100.

Posted by Your supervisor 2008-09-14 08:08|| 2008-09-14 08:08|| Front Page Top

#13 Vote for McCain/Palin then.

Mac has proposed a thoughtful job training & industry seeding effort to better adjust our economy for the 21st century. Among other areas, he's focusing on new energy sources and technologies.

Given that that will change geopolitical and domestic political power relationships a good deal, the economics of the entrenched set are sure to change ... albeit perhaps not in the direction you'd prefer.

Posted by lotp 2008-09-14 08:32|| 2008-09-14 08:32|| Front Page Top

#14 It doesn't seem like Pakistan is actually quite as anti-American as this order would make them sound. It only applies to units in the vicinity of an incursion against the units making the incursion. Given the current Pakistani force status and US mission style this is unlikely to matter at all. If this was more than just politics for internal consumption they would stop convoys and cancel overflight permission.
Still, maybe we could learn something and try this approach on our Mexican border (against drug gangs and Mexican army - but I repeat myself.)

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-09-14 08:57|| 2008-09-14 08:57|| Front Page Top

#15 Everybody remember that every-thing said in the region is always, consistently, lies. It is a matter of principle in the entire region to never, ever tell the truth when you can lie.

Now that being said, look beyond what was said.

Areas of Pakistan are off limits to the Pak army, by all sorts of agreements and treaties. This creates safe havens for the scoundrels, that they use accordingly. For the Pak army to enter to fight these scum would "break the rules".

Unless, the Pak army entered *not* to fight the scum, but to "fight Americans". Then it would be A-OK.

But it would also put the scum between hammer and anvil.

"We were shooting at the Americans, but the Taliban and al-Qaeda were in the way. They all died in the process, but we drove off the Americans who were "driven off" after all the Taliban and al-Qaeda were dead. We are victorious!"

Uh-huh.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-09-14 09:02|| 2008-09-14 09:02|| Front Page Top

#16 Words, just words.

For domestic consumption only. Remember Kayani was the guy Mullen entertained on the carrier. If this were for export, I'd suspect we'd be replying. But we just keep on doing.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-09-14 09:03|| 2008-09-14 09:03|| Front Page Top

#17 It is a matter of principle in the entire region to never, ever tell the truth when you can lie.

Like politics everywhere.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2008-09-14 09:06|| 2008-09-14 09:06|| Front Page Top

#18 Glenmore: no, it is a lot worse. To an American, it is like bizarro world, where everything is the opposite of the truth. To make matters worse, it is done almost automatically, for no reason. If you ask a man with a watch what time it is, he will lie.

A weird example was in Afghanistan, when after a battle, it was traditional to lie and exaggerate how many enemy were killed. Americans perplexed and fascinated the Afghans by intentionally under-counting enemy killed.

The Afghans knew the Americans were also lying, buy were hypnotized as to *why* they would lie that way, instead of bragging. (It is done to encourage the enemy to overestimate their resources in the field.)

Once the Afghans figured it out, they were very impressed by the Americans, and started lying the same way, under-counting enemy dead, which is just playing havoc with the Taliban command.

However, the one thing the Afghans would never do is give an *accurate* account of enemy dead, because there is no way anyone could ever justify that to them. The British Empire tried to insist on truth telling, and the Afghans just thought they were crazy.

In that part of the world, only a crazy person would tell the truth. To anyone, about anything.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-09-14 10:42|| 2008-09-14 10:42|| Front Page Top

#19 "There is an escalating sense of furious impotence among the ordinary people of Pakistan,"

who exactly are the ordinary people?

geez

Posted by Jan at work 2008-09-14 13:12|| 2008-09-14 13:12|| Front Page Top

#20 Jihadi groups in Pakistan raise money openly. They collect outside mosques, shopping centers etc.

It is estimated that more than 80 percent of Pakistanis contribute to the cause

Posted by john frum 2008-09-14 13:26|| 2008-09-14 13:26|| Front Page Top

#21 "under the chairmanship of army chief and former ISI spy agency boss Ashfaq Kayani"

Been telling you guys here for years the ISI is a cancer that must be excised. The CIA *must* start shedding senior and mid-level ISI blood, copiously.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-09-14 15:36|| 2008-09-14 15:36|| Front Page Top

#22 The other thing that needs to be done is for Bush to call the Pakistani Ambassador on the carpet, and give him a lecture on the Hague convention.

Art. 4.
Corps of combatants cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened on the territory of a neutral Power to assist the belligerents.

Art. 5.
A neutral Power must not allow any of the acts referred to in Articles ... 4 to occur on its territory

Pakistan is ceding its sovereignty when it supports combatants that cross over into other nations and fight there.

Bush needs to lay doewn the law, and trheaten them with dismemberment of the Pakistan nation if they do not remedy their failures that allow recruitment and supply of belligerents and illegal combatants in Afghanistan and India.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-09-14 15:45|| 2008-09-14 15:45|| Front Page Top

#23 SOmeone in the Pak government isn't thinking this out fully...

Posted by BigEd 2008-09-14 16:40|| 2008-09-14 16:40|| Front Page Top

#24 Oh come on, OS, you know the Hague convention isn't sharia and thus doesn't apply!

Posted by Darrell 2008-09-14 16:56|| 2008-09-14 16:56|| Front Page Top

#25 "We were shooting at the Americans, but the Taliban and al-Qaeda were in the way. They all died in the process, but we drove off the Americans who were "driven off" after all the Taliban and al-Qaeda were dead. We are victorious!"

Sounds like Tales from the Crossfire Gazette. We'll just have to wait and see if it works out that well. But, speaking of crossfires, how about Pakistan between India and the US?

Posted by Abu Uluque 2008-09-14 18:01|| 2008-09-14 18:01|| Front Page Top

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