Article

2019-07-21 Science

The Navy's 6th Generation Fighter Could Put the F-35 in a Museum

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by gorb 2019-07-21 01:55|| || Front Page|| [9 views ] Top

#1 Anyone analyzing the cost? Soon we will be able to afford one aircraft which the navy and air force will share on alternating days, and the marine corps on leap day.

Posted by P2kontheroad 2019-07-21 07:03|| 2019-07-21 07:03|| Front Page Top

#2 Yes. And because the beloved Augustine Commission scotched the Aeres Project, we got SLS instead. Be careful what you wish for...

Posted by M. Murcek 2019-07-21 07:14|| 2019-07-21 07:14|| Front Page Top

#3 I doubt the Navy can afford its own 6th Gen (whatever it may turn out to be). They have too many other irons in the fire (ships, subs, boomers, amphibs, specwar) and a F-22 or F-35 level of cost will starve the Navy's other R&D projects. Expect a merge or spinoff of the Air Force's next gen project

Posted by Chesney Gurly-Brown2710 2019-07-21 07:50|| 2019-07-21 07:50|| Front Page Top

#4 Fighter planes with pilots are done. The Navy will be all drone before the Marines or Air Force. But they will be all drone except bombers and specialty (refueling, ISR) craft very soon.

Posted by M. Murcek 2019-07-21 08:45|| 2019-07-21 08:45|| Front Page Top

#5 ...The problem with this article is that no one - NO ONE - is going to, in any reasonable time frame, authorize the funding to get a WORKING iteration of a 6th Generation fighter underway for ANYBODY, much less the USN right now. Their procurement system is broken quite possibly beyond repair, and they can't keep what they have running much less buy new stuff (USN announced on Friday that East Coast flying units are going to get their hours drastically cut until October).

The F-35 is getting better, though at a glacial pace and at a hideously expensive price. The Israelis have theirs working exactly as advertised, but they also have priorities and resources we don't and/or won't use. By 2024 the -35 will be doing just fine, as long as the bad guys are considerate enough to wait until then.

One bit of good news that gets overlooked in articles like this is that the USN and USAF, for once, stand shoulder to shoulder on something: there will NEVER be another 'joint' project like the -35. Whatever comes next will be two completely different airframes. The difficulty will be that they will have to be strikefighters - no dedicated air superiority or strike designs.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2019-07-21 10:17|| 2019-07-21 10:17|| Front Page Top

#6 Quantity is it’s own form of quality ...
I remember reading that somewhere

Posted by NoMoreBS 2019-07-21 11:51|| 2019-07-21 11:51|| Front Page Top

#7 there will NEVER be another 'joint' project like the -35. Whatever comes next will be two completely different airframes.

Just because these are two completely different use cases - flying off a ship vs flying from a traditional airbase? Preposterous! The bean counters will hate it.

Not This Week In Books:
While neither of them involve airplanes, two takes on this age-old conflict between engineering and management are "Car Guys vs Bean Counters" and "The Pentagon Wars".

The book "Car Guys vs Bean Counters: The Battle for the Soul of American Business" by Bob Lutz is the story of an long-time auto executive's fight against management-by-the-numbers, and the struggle to make great cars. Having grown up in Detroit in the era of Japanese imports and Federal mileage standards, it was interesting to see an insider's view of the auto biz. Anyone who does projects in a large hierarchical organization will recognize the players and the problems. An entertaining read. P.S. He hates the press.

"The Pentagon Wars" is a 1998 movie comedy about the process of how the Bradley came to be the Bradley - "a troop transport that can't carry troops, a reconnaissance vehicle that's too conspicuous to do reconnaissance, and a quasi-tank that has less armor than a snowblower, but has enough ammo to take out half of D.C." Think of it as the F-35 with tracks. I laughed.

Posted by SteveS 2019-07-21 11:59|| 2019-07-21 11:59|| Front Page Top

#8 I'm beginning to think that the F-35's greatest value will be in "lessons learned" in project management; the desirability of "one frame for all the services" and overcoming the challenges of coding for a project of this type.

A pretty expensive lesson.

As for the plane itself...

I can't help thinking of the circumstances in WWII in which the Germans and Japanese got so wrapped up in the "craftsmanship" of high quality planes (and tanks), that they never had enough of them from about 1942 on.

Meanwhile the US and the Soviets generally focused on cranking out as many units as possible even at the expense of said craftsmanship.

Who won that war again?

Posted by charger 2019-07-21 12:18|| 2019-07-21 12:18|| Front Page Top

#9 Those lessons have been taught hundreds of times in hundreds of places. People never learn because.......... the lessons get in the way of desires.

Posted by AlanC 2019-07-21 13:28|| 2019-07-21 13:28|| Front Page Top

#10 A pretty expensive lesson.

Yep. Over $33,000 for each man, woman and child living in the US, including the illegals.

"Car Guys vs Bean Counters: The Battle for the Soul of American Business"

Why I probably won't buy American ever again. The bean counters left me stranded on the side of the road or otherwise severely inconvenienced me several times by their decisions. Once because they didn't want to pay the extra 50 cents to pay for good servos in the transmission. Another because they didn't want redundancy in shift lever, and another because they decided to put the knock sensor in the valley instead of outside the block where you can get to it. Who wants to pay $2,000 to save them a dollar? They can keep it. Now Toyota is starting to have those kinds of problems. I hope they don't succumb to them.

Posted by gorb 2019-07-21 13:48|| 2019-07-21 13:48|| Front Page Top

#11 Meanwhile, I understand the Air Force is building some more F-15's.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2019-07-21 14:39|| 2019-07-21 14:39|| Front Page Top

#12 Car Guys vs Bean Counters: The Battle for the Soul of American Business" by Bob Lutz

Kindle sample dowloaded with thanks, SteveS. It may interest Mr, Wife as well, given his experiences dealing with both sides of that equation.

Posted by trailing wife 2019-07-21 15:21|| 2019-07-21 15:21|| Front Page Top

23:55 Punky Fluling8656
23:12 Varmint Splat1454
21:33 Skidmark
21:27 Skidmark
21:23 Rob Crawford
21:22 Rob Crawford
21:21 European Conservative
21:19 Rob Crawford
21:18 Rob Crawford
21:17 European Conservative
21:17 Rob Crawford
21:16 trailing wife
21:16 Rob Crawford
21:02 Procopius2k
21:01 Procopius2k
19:12 Rjschwarz
19:09 Phaick Uneretle6310
19:05 Mullah Richard
18:09 Herb McCoy
18:00 Snavimble Bucket1794
17:53 magpie
17:32 M. Murcek
17:30 Lex
17:28 The peanut gallery