A hail of automatic rifle fire killed an American working for the U.S. military and wounded another in an ambush on their car Tuesday near a U.S. base in Kuwait where Washington is preparing for a possible war on Iraq. The United States embassy condemned the incident as a terrorist attack. It was the third time since October that Americans have been killed or injured in attacks in Kuwait. The men were ambushed at around 9:15 a.m. (0615 GMT) while driving on a highway north of Kuwait City near Camp Doha, the main U.S. army base in Kuwait. The U.S. embassy said they were contractors with a firm working for the Defense Department. Heard they were software engineers moving between camps.
Kuwaiti police said one or more attackers had opened fire from trees and bushes at the side of the road before escaping. Cartridge cases believed to be from rounds fired from a Kalashnikov rifle or rifles were found at the scene.
Reuters journalists at the scene said the dead man's body was removed from a tan-colored four-wheel-drive vehicle about two hours after the attack. Dozens of police sealed off roads in the area, and Kuwait's interior minister visited the scene.
One side of the vehicle was riddled with more than 20 bullets, and the windshield was also fractured. Some of the side windows had been shot out completely. A pool of blood was visible on the road, until police covered it with sand.
"We condemn this terrorist incident which has tragically cost the life of an innocent American citizen," the U.S. ambassador to Kuwait, Richard Jones, said in a statement. "We have full confidence that the Kuwaiti authorities will pursue their investigation of the incident vigorously and professionally."
The embassy said the injured man had been shot in the shoulder and thigh and was in hospital in Kuwait City.
More than 15,000 U.S. soldiers are in Kuwait and more are arriving every week ahead of a possible war with Iraq. The military also employs a large number of U.S. civilian contractors to help run its camps. Last November, a Kuwaiti policeman shot and seriously wounded two U.S. soldiers on a highway south of Kuwait City and the previous month two Kuwaitis attacked U.S. Marines training on an island, killing one. There have also been several reports of shots fired at U.S. troops training in the Kuwaiti desert.
Kuwaiti Foreign Minister Sheikh Sabah al-Ahmad al-Sabah sent his condolences to his U.S. counterpart Colin Powell.
"Kuwaiti strongly condemns such criminal acts which aim to harm the historical relations and strong ties between two friendly countries," the state news agency quoted him as saying.
Earlier this week Kuwaiti officials said they had arrested a Kuwaiti soldier suspected of spying for Iraq. Kuwaiti newspapers have said the man had been plotting attacks on U.S. targets in Kuwait, including a possible attempt to poison U.S. troops. Kuwait is likely to be a launchpad for a U.S. invasion of Iraq if Baghdad does not satisfy Washington's demand that it prove itself free of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq insists it has no chemical, biological or nuclear arms. Kuwait is a key U.S. ally and the government is publicly grateful to Washington for leading the 1991 Gulf War that drove out occupying Iraqi troops from the oil-rich country. But many Kuwaitis -- and other Arabs -- are angry at the United States for its support for Israel against the Palestinians and policies in the region. Kuwait also has a vocal Islamist opposition. On the streets of Kuwait City, Kuwaitis said they were shocked by the incident.
"I am dismayed," said teacher Waleed al-Mullah. "If someone has a problem (with the U.S. presence) they should discuss it in a peaceful way and not grab a gun." Going after soft targets. Expect that more of these will take place before its over.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 08:05 am ||
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Word has it they were from San Diego - a Kearny Mesa software firm supporting military tech hardware, and they'd only been in Kuwait a week or so
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/21/2003 10:04 Comments ||
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Someone screwed the pooch. The Pentagon, long time ago, made a decision to trade off uniform support personnel for trigger pullers. The substitution of contractors, like this, for skilled grunts [which are expensive to train and even harder to retain in a free market system]was a choice. When the commanders on the scene fails to include the contractors in their 'force protection' planning and execution, this is the result. After the earlier shooting by a Kuwaiti of our soldiers, someone should have been bright enough to insure that these people were escorted or convoyed between secure locations. Someone needs a new rectal orifice ripped. As contractors, they didn't even have the ability to get Servicemens Group Life Insurance, so their families will probably be screwed too when the insurance company invokes the boilerplate exclusion for death during wartime. All because someone in uniform overthere is too busy and doesn't want to be bothered with the problem of taking care of contractors. I'm sure others are just lining up to take their place after this fiasco.
Posted by: Don ||
01/21/2003 10:25 Comments ||
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A fifth man has been charged with developing or producing a chemical weapon, following the discovery of the poison ricin at a London flat two weeks ago. Nasreddine Fekhadji was one of several people arrested during a series of raids in north London on 5 January. Mr Fekhadji, 36, of Fonthill Road in Finsbury Park, north London, was originally charged with forgery. But two further charges were added during a court appearance at Bow Street Magistrates on Monday. As well as a charge under the Chemical Weapons Act, he was also accused of possessing articles for terrorist purposes. He was remanded in custody ahead of a court appearance at the Old Bailey on 27 January. If found guilty under the Chemical Weapons Act he could face life in jail. Is Abu Hamza gone yet? They won't really be serious until he's gone...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 07:00 pm ||
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The early-morning anti-terrorism raid on London's notorious Finsbury Park mosque this week reveals that the rules of the game have changed in Britain's struggle with Islamic extremism.
About 150 officers in riot gear stormed the mosque at 2am on Monday using battering rams and ladders. They arrested seven suspects in the investigation of a terrorist network involved in the production of deadly poison and the murder of a police detective. A search turned up canisters of CS tear gas, a stun gun and an imitation firearm, along with potentially significant documents, police said. Under British law, the gas, stun gun and imitation firearm are enough to hold them for a while. The documents are the real haul, heard there are a lot of phoney ID's, what a surprise.
The raid also sent an emphatic message: police have decided to get tough with a house of worship that, according to European law enforcement agencies, has openly supported acts of terrorism. The three-storey, red-brick structure, which stands next to elevated railway tracks, has been a crossroads connecting European ideologues to Afghan training camps and Islamic battlegrounds in Chechnya, Bosnia-Herzegovina and the Middle East, according to investigators. Finsbury Park played a role in the emerging radicalism of "holy warriors," including Richard Reid, the al Qaeda "shoe-bomber" convicted of trying to blow up an American Airlines flight, and Zacarias Moussaoui, the Frenchman on trial for his alleged part in the September 11 conspiracy. Its Egyptian-born imam, Abu Hamza al Masri, a one-eyed cleric with hooks for hands, has been a very public face of hard-core Islam. His glorification of Osama bin Laden and his active contact with accused terrorists around the world have made him the target of investigators in the United States and other countries. After the September 11 attacks, British authorities were slow to move against Abu Hamza or Abu Qatada, a fellow radical cleric revered by al Qaeda who was jailed last year. Liberal laws governing free speech and political asylum protected the cleric and his associates, who in the past had treated Britain as a haven rather than a target, according to European experts.
The classic trade-off between intelligence work and crime prevention also played a role. Britain's powerful spy agencies found the Finsbury Park mosque a valuable surveillance post for watching al Qaeda's web of contacts. Just like we thought.
Tolerance for Islamic fundamentalism has faded fast in Europe, especially as intelligence agencies learnt in recent months that an al Qaeda-linked Algerian network in Britain and France was plotting an attack, possibly with lethal chemicals.
Last week, a suspected member of that network stabbed and killed a Manchester detective during a manhunt resulting from the discovery of a makeshift lab for producing ricin poison. The murder, and the fact that a suspect in the ricin case worked at the mosque's bookstore, appears to have pushed police across a long-standing line. First time I've heard one of the ricin suspects worked at the mosque. Bet that's how they got the search warrant.
"The raid was symbolic and necessary to show the government was getting tough," said Mustafa Alani, an analyst at the Royal United Services Institute, a London panel of experts.
"There was certainly a benefit in the past for intelligence gathering. It is always a balance between the intelligence benefits, security and public opinion." Nonetheless, police have still not arrested Abu Hamza, who lost his eye and his hands in Afghan combat in the early 1990s and is wanted by Yemen in connection with the murders of American and European tourists in 1999. His bank accounts have been frozen, but as a British citizen he cannot be arrested under new anti-terror legislation that gives police considerable power to detain foreigners. "He was not part of this operation," said Deputy Police Commissioner Andy Trotter on Monday. "We were not looking for him today and not in relation to this."
Abu Hamza, 45, called the police raid "disgusting" and "a desecration". "You cannot find a reason for this kind of Rambo-like way of attacking the mosque," he told the Press Association, a British news agency. "I think it was a provocative act. When did you last hear of a church being raided when someone has been arrested?"
The image of police battering down the doors of a mosque is unusual and potentially explosive. Scotland Yard officials insisted that they went out of their way to be sensitive.
Muslim police officers were involved in the planning and the search, which avoided prayer areas and focused on offices and two apartment buildings next door to the mosque, according to Scotland Yard. The police wore cloth-covered shoes out of respect for Islamic dictates about footwear in holy places, a spokesman said. On Monday evening, searchers were still inside the mosque, a busy gathering point in an immigrant neighbourhood full of Middle Eastern cafes, Pakistani grocery stores and money wiring services that attest to the population mix. Residents come from countries as diverse as Somalia, Albania, Bangladesh, Malta and Algeria. The seven men arrested on Monday were described only as six North Africans and an East European between the ages of 22 and 48. Two worked as permanent security guards and the others were volunteer guards on duty because of a spate of threats, according to Abu Hamza. This is just the start, I hope.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 09:38 am ||
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When did you last hear of a church being raided when someone has been arrested?"
I dunno. But I did hear of a charge in Bethlehem being taken over and desecrated by Muslims. I guess that's OK.
Posted by: Denny Wilson ||
01/21/2003 10:57 Comments ||
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More details from The Times Online: Detectives also recovered hundreds of documents including forged passports, believed to be French, faked French identity cards and counterfeit credit cards.Five Algerian men and a Somali, aged between 23 and 48, and an Albanian, 22, were detained. Among them were three Algerians who the police and the Security Service, MI5, did not know had entered the country. Police have now asked immigration officials to check on the status of all seven in this country. One of the three was said to be a âhugely significant figureâ in the ricin poison plot uncovered two weeks ago. His arrest is said to be one of the most important made since police began tracking down members of the ricin network.
Police also removed computer equipment. M15 is reported to have asked the GCHQ listening station at Cheltenham to intercept thousands of coded e-mails sent and received by the mosque.
If they have the computer that was used to decode the e-mails, that will make things a lot easier.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 11:22 Comments ||
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Yup. Want to bet they don't know how to wipe properly? Probably think everything's peachy as long as they used their left hands...
After the police used battering rams lit by helicopters to break into the mosque from which he preaches in north London, Abu Hamza briefly went underground. But nothing can keep this Islamic zealot down for long. Soon he was using his favourite forum, the BBC, to state his case for radical Islam.
Hours later, he was in the witness box at the Old Bailey defending a fellow cleric charged with soliciting to murder.
Later still, he woke up to see himself all over the front pages, reviled amid accusations of terrorism. Showing the calipers he uses, he has no hands, The Sun made clear the position of many Britons with a huge headline that said: "Sling your hook". And it is true that many Britons, including Muslims, simply cannot understand how the man who calls himself Sheik Abu Hamza El-Masir is allowed to live in a society he constantly threatens and whose links to international terrorism seem irrefutable. Me either
For example, in 1999 Abu Hamza called on Islam for "inventions to fight arrogant Western powers" that might include "air-bound mines or flying bombs". By then he already was a supporter of - and had publicly praised - Osama bin Laden. The reason he may live in Britain is because Britain will not deport to their homelands people who face execution there.
His real name is Mustapha Kamel, born in Egypt, now 44. Not surprisingly he changed his name to Abu Hamza El-Masir. The "sheik" is a phony honorific. "Abu" often precedes a fighting pseudonym in the Arab world. In 1994 Mustapha was sentenced to death in absentia for plotting to kill the then Egyptian prime minister, Atef Sidki. He had been based in Britain since 1980 and, despite pleas from Egypt, would not be deported to be executed. His file shows he was a student in engineering, a nightclub bouncer in the Soho sex industry, and the husband, briefly, of an English woman, Valerie. He has two sons, one of whom faced terrorism charges in Yemen, where Hamza is also wanted. He claims to have lost both hands and an eye to a landmine in Afghanistan during the 1980s war against the Soviet Union. I've heard that this may have been a "work accident" sometime later.
He has a militant and devoted following, and he preaches a steady stream of hatred. He also called a day of thanks to mark the anniversary of September 11. I think his time is about up.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 08:44 am ||
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More details are emerging on the arrest of former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter. The Delmar resident was arrested by Colonie police in June of 2001 on a misdemeanor charge. And Channel 6 News has learned that Ritter had been issued a warning after being caught by police once before. Colonie police will not confirm any of this, but Channel 6 News learned that Ritter was caught in a sex sting early in 2001. He was issued a warning then, but eventually arrested for the same thing three months later. Ritter, who has made national headlines for speaking out against going to war with Iraq is keeping silent on this issue. He has been unavailable for comment since details of his arrest were made public. In June of 2001, Ritter was accused of engaging in a sexual discussion, on the Internet with a person who he thought, was a 14 year old girl. It was actually an undercover investigator who agreed to meet with Ritter. When Ritter arrived at the location, expecting to meet the girl, police warned him that he had been set up. Three months later Ritter allegedly fell into the same trap, only this time he was arrested. The misdemeanor charge relating to child endangerment was eventually disposed of and sealed. Assistant District Attorney Cynthia Preiser has since lost her job over the incident. Albany County DA Paul Clyne fired Preiser on Friday because he says she never informed him that the case against Ritter even existed. Prieser would not comment and Ritter has also been unavailable for comment. The case against Ritter was eventually sealed, preventing everyone from disclosing details about the case. In fact, Ritter can deny it ever happened since sealed cases essentially mean, it never happened. CNN tells Channel 6 News, Ritter is on his way to Baghdad, but will be in New York City tomorrow to shoot an anti war message. This story is starting to get legs. MSNBC has more details: However, NewsChannel 13 reported in June 2001 about an arrest of a 39-year-old William Ritter of Delmar on charges he tried to lure a 16-year-old girl he met on the Internet to a Burger King in Menands. According to police, the intent of that meeting was so that she could watch him perform sexual acts on himself. At that time police said William Ritter was arrested before doing anything, but was facing multiple misdemeanor charges for trying to solicit an underage girl for sexual reasons. Ritter's attorney, Norah Murphy, confirmed that he was arrested in the town of Colonie in June 2001.
There has been speculation on why Ritter had changed his mind on Saddam's weapons. Some thought it was a payoff, he was paid $300K+ to do a documentary on Iraq. Other people had mentioned blackmail. Wonder if Saddam has photos?
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 10:18 am ||
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They probably got him on film with someone they supplied in Iraq - honeytrap with underage bait
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/21/2003 11:19 Comments ||
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Why would these charges be "sealed"? Can anyone with more knowledge of the legal system than I explain?
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
01/21/2003 12:01 Comments ||
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To clarify the previous question:
Is is possible that the ADA (Preiser) did not report the case against Ritter to her boss (Clyne) because she liked his position on Sammy and did not want him to go down in flames?
#4
I dont like ritter, and see him as a iraqi stooge. But this story is a bad one.
The information has some basic problems:
1)I have seen ages 14 and 16 put on the girl.
2)The court records are closed. "police" who talk about cases with sealed records end up in jail for a while, and being sued in civil court.
It might all be true and above board, but it smells funny.
#5
flash91; two different busts with two different girls. 14 year old (he thought) was the first one, the 16 year old was the second. His lawyer admitted he was arrested, but wouldn't talk about it. It looks to me like somebody in the courthouse leaked it to the press. The ADA lost her job over keeping this case quiet. I think it's real, but we'll see.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 13:51 Comments ||
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Well, his lawyer confirms a June 2001 arrest so something happened.
According to the above linked MSNBC story, there are 2 reported incidents. One involved a 14 year old, the other a cop posing as a 16 year old. This may explain why there may be confusion about the ages.
This guy has been flaky from the get go. He apparantly lost his security clearance for being married to a former suspected Soviet agent (found this on google, read down).
His behavior has puzzled me for a long time. I always thought it had something to do with resentment over losing his clearance but I am not surprised to learn there is more dirt.
There's a reason they require background checks for sensitive jobs.
#7
Here's the MSNBC story with his mug shot, this kind of shoots down his denial it was him:
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 14:00 Comments ||
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Well, that didn't work. However, World Net Daily is reporting that NBC television affiliate WNYT in Albany has news footage of Ritter being arrested. At the time the video was shot, the station was unaware the arrest was connected to Ritter, WNYT Executive Producer Beth Cohen told WND. The police here have been doing the same thing, they have a great internet sex crimes unit that sits in teen chat rooms, and waits for these pervs to try to pick them up. Sometimes when these guys show up for their "date" the local tv crews are there to film it. Sounds like the cops busted him, and later the ADA found out who he was and tried to cover it up. If these are cops posing as jail bait, why would you put a seal on the bust? Here they put them on the front page as a warning. Anyone know what New York law is on this?
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 15:29 Comments ||
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Lets see if I get this straight:
1) I take a dramatic public stance against my own government.
2) I accuse said government of being liars and suggest the president should be impeached.
3) Now that every media outlet on the big blue planet earth will notice my every move, I decide to take up with underage girls on the highly traceable media of the internet.
D'oh!
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
01/21/2003 15:34 Comments ||
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Clever move, isn't it?
Posted by: Fred ||
01/21/2003 15:44 Comments ||
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Steve has a good point. The seal on these cases is usually intended to protect the victim. Though I guess it makes sense, I was not aware that it would be applied to protect the accused after being busted by undercover cops. That's why I suspect the ADA hid it for ideological reasons.
#14
Ritter is a sick puppy. The interesting questions are the role of the Mukhabarat in all this and who it was who blew Ritter's cover. We'll all be curious to see if any of the cable networks are dumb enough to use Ritter as an "expert" anymore.
#15
I was a girl that age myself once upon a time, in the next town over, so I can certainly empathize with these young women. However, the timing of Mr. Ritter's situation is a little too politically expedient for me to accept the allegations at face value. This article about a press conference on busting a child pornography ring makes a few interesting points. What's to prevent a scummy situation like this from happening to any of us? All you'd have to do is click on the wrong piece of spam in your hotmail account, and then show up at the wrong hamburger joint when some hapless young lady arrives! Even if you're delighted to see Mr. Ritter's knavery exposed, probing for all the specific details might mean that two teenage girls will grow up with the kind of shame and embarassment that can wreck their chances at a happy marraige later in life. Hats off to the District Attorney who resigned rather than betray a young woman's secrets! If you haven't been dating yourself for a while, I'd suggest reading this eye-opening account of "The Buddy System," and discover the sort of life that even innocent teenage girls are leading these days.
#16
Not for nothing, but some folks here seem a little unclear on the timeline of events and on Ritter's actual acts.
Ritter, along with other UN inspectors, was booted out of Iraq in the late 1990's. I believe he was still on our team at that time.
The "alleged" contacts with the police officers he believed were underage girls came in March 2001 and June of 2001, prior to 9/11/01.
He didn't get his traitorous lying mug on TV as an expert until 2002 when it was clear W was going to push to reopen the inspections-or-regime change plans that Clinton had promised then abandoned.
Thank God no young girls were actually used or abused by that pervert in Albany but there may very well be something to Iraq blackmailing him while bankrolling him through the "documentary film" scam.
Hope he enjoys Attica. They treat pedophiles right!
#17
Will someone clarify something? The second bust did not involve a 16 year old girl. It was an undercover police officer posing as such in the chat room. I am not sure, but wasn't the 14 year old the same situation? If so, then THERE IS NO UNDERAGE VICTIM to protect! So why are court records sealed? The only possible legitimate answer I can think of is to hide the identity of the chat room and nicks used. No sense spoiling the fishing ground.
Posted by: Ben ||
01/22/2003 3:44 Comments ||
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Anonymous: you've got it a little backwards and you're misinformed on what's been made public in this matter.
First, clicking on a piece of spam isn't going to get you under the watchful eye of the law. It doesn't work that way.
Meeting in Internet chat rooms with "teenagers" who are actually undercover cops and then setting up a meeting with said teenager IS going to get you in trouble.
The ADA who got in trouble over this didn't resign to protect young girls identities, there were NO young girls involved. She was FIRED for not reporting the case to her boss.
Even if a kid was involved, sex cases like this aren't routinely sealed...UNLESS some kind of deal is struck. The adult's arrest record is normally public, but the juvenile victim's name is always expunged. Actually, the same is true in adult sex crimes: rape victims names are never included in the public record, at least in most jurisdictions (and probably all of them, these days) At most an age is included in the public record. Believe me, in a prior life I covered a LOT of criminal cases, including those involving juveys and adults, and this is how it works.
Ritter's case was sealed because of a deal, not because of a non-existent girl(s). He probably argued entrapment and, since no kid was actually touched, his lawyer wangled something. Who knows, the cops might have screwed up in some minor way. Deals like this are not unheard of in such cases, especially when someone of notoriety is hauled in AND, if he has no prior record.
The ADA's lack of notice to her boss warranted her firing. This whole matter was obviously a big deal in Albany and I'd be pissed if I was her boss and she didn't tell me that she had a case involving a UN arms inspector. I'd be doubly pissed if I was getting calls from the press and didn't know what the hell they were talking about...which is probably what happened.
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
01/22/2003 4:18 Comments ||
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With the specific aim of disrupting Republic Day functions in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan's Special Services Group has readied terrorist suicide squads at three places along the International Border, official sources on Wednesday said. These include suicide squads of Jaish-e-Mohammad, Lashker-e-Tayiba and Al-Badr, they said. The militants have been instructed to carry out suicide attacks at Republic Day venues, on certain ministers and religious places on or before January 26, the sources said. These groups of militants, called the 'Sabotage Force', are being directly commanded by Pakistan's SSG. Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence has also re-activated launching pads and training camps along the border opposite to R S Pura, Ramgarh, and Hiranagar sub-sectors of Jammu-Kathua belt during the last one month, the sources said. They never, ever get tired of this crap, do they?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 04:10 pm ||
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It's a fact that Afghanistan, Pakistan, & Saudi Arabia need to be nuked into radioactive wastelands, for simple revenge AND as a warning to the rest of the world. Then Israel should get the go-ahead to cleanse those Palestinian savages from the face of the earth. That's what I would do anyway. I hope Bush & co. are smarter than I am and actually have a real plan for stopping the Worldwide Islamic Jihad(tm), but the way they coddle those dirty Pakis makes me worried.
I think the USA needs to focus on who their real allies are: Britain, Russia, Turkey, India and Israel. And we also need to focus on who our real enemies are: Pakistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc., etc. Iran is kind of on the fence right now and North Korea is just a sideshow that can be dealt with later, when they get even hungrier than they are now. Europe can sink into the morass by themselves if they don't want to pitch in.
Sigh, I just feel like our entire foreign policy is totally out of sync with reality. :-(
#2
"...our entire foreign policy is totally out of sync with reality..."
Thats because the sh*t hasn't hit the fan yet in the continental USA like it has in Israel and other places. Wait for it. Until then, we have goofs like Sean Penn and Sheen.
RAJANPUR, Jan 21 (NNI): Four men armed with sophisticated weapons Monday shot dead Maulana Muhammad Iqbal Saeedi, District Amir Jamat-Alha Sunnah and his brother in the jurisdiction of the Court of Additional Sessions Judge. Iced him in the courthouse, did they?
After committing crime they presented before Police and surrendered their ammunition. Police have sent the dead bodies to District hospital for autopsy. Yeah. Make sure they're dead...
Reports said that there was an old enmity between the two groups, but police is also investigation the other aspects of murders. "Yar, Ghulam! That Iqbal Saeedi, he's so much holier'n I am. Yar! 'M eaten up by jealousy, I am!"
"Yar, Hashim! Yer right. We should kill 'im, that's what we should do!"
"Yar! And his little brother, too!"
"An' his dog!"
"Let's fry 'is Mom an' eat her!"
"Har! It's the Baluchi way of life!"
"let's go to the mosque and pray before we slaughter 'em!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 12:13 pm ||
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NWFP Chief Minister, Akram Khan Durrani has said that the MMA government according to the wishes of people would make the province a model for the rest of the country. "Elimination of unemployment and routing out of vulgar were the priorities of his government, NWFP chief secretary said. He expressed these views while talking to the Information Secretary of Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam, Sindh, Qari Muhammad Usman here on Monday. Durrani said that he and his team would not be oppressed of any one's propaganda and it would continue taking measures in the larger interest of the nation and country. Now that all the dens of vice and debauchery are closed, and people can't listen to music or sing or dance or tell jokes, they're going to have to come up with something for them to do beside shoot each other.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 11:50 am ||
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The MMA is using its new prominence in the jihad provinces, to infiltrate the other provinces. They have already murdered a couple of political enemies, according to the MQM: www.mqm.com
Pakistan's ambassador in Washington Ashraf Jehangir Qazi has said that the world is convinced that Islamabad never cooperated with North Korea on nuclear level. The ambassador said that no one has challenged Pakistan's stand on North Korea's issue. "We neither cooperated with North Korea in nuclear field in the past, nor do we have any kind of cooperation at the moment. We will never have such relationship in future as well." Up here on Jupiter, on the other hand, we think they dunnit...
Pakistan's cooperation with world coalition over its war against terrorism is now beyond any doubt and it should be very clear now that Pakistan is not a safe haven for Osama bin Laden. He said Pak-Afghan border is very complex and complicated one. "There are hundred and one ways to get in. However the issue of intrusion has been over publicized. On both sides, people of similar resemblance do live, besides they have similar language, similar dress, culture and behaviour. So it is highly difficult to recognize who is Taliban and who is not." "So those aren't really Paks running around waving guns. They're Pashtuns, Afghans in everything but birthplace, really. Not us at all, even though they vote here, and their preachers are trying to run things..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 11:38 am ||
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Foreign Minister Mian Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri has said that Pakistan resolutely rejects terrorism as it has no creed, culture or religion and "we collectively oppose the attempts to identify our noble religion â Islam â with terrorism." "Except for jihad in Kashmir, of course. That's legit. And Afghanistan."
Addressing the Ministerial meeting of the Security Council here Monday, he said the misrepresentation and slander against Islam must be opposed by the international community, lest it sow the seeds of endemic confrontation between cultures and civilization. He said there should be no double standards in combating terrorism. We are surprised that terrorism by other religious fanatics in non-Muslim societies has not been condemned vigorously. On the few occasions when it occurs, it is. You just don't notice amidst all the atrocities being perpetrated in the name of Islam. It's the difference between "big" and "small."
Foreign Minister quoted President Musharraf as saying "Hate should have no market. It must be stamped out with the same zeal with which the fight against terrorism is being pursued". We shall do this vigorously in Pakistan. Better get crackin', because you've fallen way behind...
He said that we are trying to build Pakistan as envisioned by our founding father, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, as a tolerant, modern democratic. Islamic state. Until proven different, I'll continue to regard "modern" and "Islamic" as antonyms...
He said that while collectively opposing terrorism, the international community must also endeavour collectively to promote greater cultural and religious harmony all over the world. In this connection, he said Pakistan has proposed the adoption by the UN General Assembly of a Declaration on Religious and Cultural Understanding, Harmony and Cooperation. Good idea. And how about a Pak declaration in favor of religious freedom?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 11:23 am ||
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tolerant, modern democratic. Islamic state.
Oxymoron Alert!
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/21/2003 14:20 Comments ||
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Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, who is in charge here? Or is it some kind of power sharing or consensus gig?
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
01/21/2003 20:31 Comments ||
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The confessed field commander of the Bali bombing team, Ali Imron, has told investigators the bomb outside the Sari Club contained a tonne of explosives, three times as much as previously thought, Indonesian police said yesterday.
They said Imron told them the bomb was so heavy that he was afraid when he drove it part of the way to the Sari Club, and said the van was sluggish and difficult to handle.
Forensic experts from the Australian Federal Police found traces of substances in the house in Denpasar which, Imron has told them, was used by the plotters to assemble the bomb.
Meanwhile, the man who led the Bali bomb attacks, Imam Samudra, 35, says he has cleansed himself of the blood of his victims and is preparing to enter Paradise.
In a poem written in his cell under the shadow of a death sentence, Samudra wrote:
Don't ask me about blood
Don't ask me about life.
It's just nothing compared to Paradise. Don't quit your day job
In 36 pages, written in a school exercise book, the fundamentalist Islamic teacher said nothing about the 194 people, including 88 Australians, who died.
Nor did he express any remorse. Instead, he said he would die a martyr, executed in jihad, a holy war against the enemies of his faith.
A martyr's death would release him from all earthly sins and was an immediate entry to Paradise, a realm of milk and honey, gold, pearls and amethyst with an endless supply of houris for sexual pleasure.
Ahmad Michdan, the head of the defence team, said the diary pages were the first instalment of a book Samudra intended to have published.
Most of his writing was devoted to explaining his religious beliefs. He did not mention the atrocity, although he referred to it obliquely when describing his journey to Solo, in Central Java, as part of a police reconstruction of the plot.
He described looking out of a window in the police armoured car and seeing an old man with a white beard, who was calling out the name of Allah.
The old man so impressed Samudra that he returned to him frequently in his dreams. In one dream, Samudra addressed him as an Angel of God, but the old man shook his head and told Samudra it was he who was going to enter Paradise.
Such material is sometimes difficult for non-Muslims to accept, but it will cause a sensation in Indonesia, which has the biggest Muslim population in the world. Police are worried the Bali bombing might produce an inspirational martyr to serve as a role model for terrorists
Posted by: Paul ||
01/21/2003 09:49 pm ||
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Now there's a boy who needs a pork suit for his burial....let him know that awaits him and we'll see how resolved he is heh heh
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/21/2003 22:53 Comments ||
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If you don't use up all your nukes on Saudi arabia et al, can you save a few for the island of Java? That's the nexus of evil... oh and drop one on Dr Mahatir's head, too.
Posted by: Down Under ||
01/21/2003 23:45 Comments ||
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A militant Indonesian Muslim who has confessed to involvement in October's bombings on Bali island said there was a "strong possibility" money from Osama bin Laden was used for the attacks, Time Magazine reported. Indonesian police have previously insisted -- and reiterated again Tuesday -- that they had not found any evidence linking bin Laden or his al Qaeda network to the Bali attack, which killed at least 193 people, most of them foreign tourists. But in its latest edition, Time said it had seen confessions made to police by two of the key Indonesian men behind the attacks, Mukhlas and Iman Samudra. Police have publicly said both had admitted roles in the blasts. Time said in Mukhlas' confession, he said he believed it was money from al Qaeda that was used for the bombing operation. Mukhlas said $25,000 had been given to the plotters by a man known as Hambali, former operational chief of Jemaah Islamiah, a shadowy Southeast Asian network of militant Muslims. Indonesian police have said Mukhlas had replaced Hambali before being arrested. "Since Hambali is not known to have any other big funding sources and because he often goes to Afghanistan there is a strong possibility that the source came from Afghanistan, namely Osama bin Laden," Mukhlas said in his confession. No big surprise there.
Hambali's whereabouts are not known. Pakistan? Saudi? Yemen? Taking a dirt nap in Afganistan?
The magazine said Indonesian investigators had concluded that Jemaah Islamiah's "jihad operations" were funded by al Qaeda.
A number of Indonesians arrested over the Bali blasts are members of Jemaah Islamiah, which the United States and other countries have linked to al Qaeda. Washington has blamed al Qaeda for the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
Indonesian police denied the Time report. "We have never issued such kind of information," Brigadier General Edward Aritonang, spokesman for the police investigating the Bali attacks, told Reuters. Asked whether police have found any links connecting bin Laden or al Qaeda to the explosions, Aritonang said: "Not yet." Not quite a denial.
The magazine said Mukhlas had been introduced to bin Laden in Afghanistan in the late 1980s. It quoted the confession as saying Mukhlas and other top Jemaah Islamiah personnel had nurtured ties with bin Laden and al Qaeda in the years that followed. Regional intelligence and security officials say Jemaah Islamiah has planned attacks against Western facilities and other targets across Southeast Asia. Alleged members have been detained in Singapore, Malaysia and the Philippines as well as Indonesia. Police Monday called Mukhlas the "controller" of the Bali attacks. Nice that he seems to be talking.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 08:12 am ||
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Indonesian police have recommended that prosecutors charge Abu Bakar Ba'asyir, the suspected spiritual leader of a regional militant group, with treason and a series of bomb attacks. Police said Mr Ba'asyir plotted to assassinate Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri while she was deputy leader, and masterminded a spate of bomb attacks on churches across the archipelago on Christmas Eve 2000. National police spokesman Edward Aritonang said police gave the prosecutor's office evidence files on Mr Ba'asyir on Monday for consideration.
Under Indonesian law, if prosecutors believe there is enough evidence to substantiate the charge, a trial date will be set.
The recommended charges carry a maximum sentence of life for treason and 15 years in prison for attacks using explosives. NOTE: No terrorism charge which carries the death penalty.
Mr Ba'asyir has not been formally accused of taking part in last year's attacks on Bali, but he is believed to be one of the leaders of Jemaah Islamiah, an Islamic militant group which is suspected of involvement in the bombings. Several of the suspects arrested in connection with the attacks are also said to have studied under Mr Ba'asyir. The elderly cleric was arrested on 20 October, amid angry protests from his supporters. He is accused of overseeing the delivery of bombs to 38 churches or priests across Indonesia on Christmas Eve 2000. Nineteen people were killed in the attacks. If his trial goes ahead, witnesses in Malaysia and Singapore will give evidence via a televised link, police said last week.
Mr Ba'asyir has denied any involvement in terrorist acts and has also denied being a member of Jemaah Islamiah. Interesting, no terror charge.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 07:54 am ||
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Hmm. So what IS the reason for the attacks with explosives???
Al-Qaida's leader Osama bin Laden escaped Afghanistan by giving his satellite phone to his Moroccan bodyguard, who served as a decoy for US forces tracking the signal, The Washington Post reported yesterday. Abdallah Tabarak was captured at Tora Bora in eastern Afghanistan in November 2001 and sent to the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where he is now a leader among fellow al-Qaida and Taliban detainees, senior Moroccan officials told the daily. "He agreed to be captured or die," one official said. "That's the level of his fanaticism for bin Laden."
Tabarak, 43, used bin Laden's phone while moving around the cave complex at Tora Bora. "It wasn't a lot of time but it was enough. There is a saying: 'Where there is a frog, the serpent is not far away'," said the Moroccan officials who have interviewed Tabarak and other Moroccan prisoners at Guantanamo. Do they watch a lot of old "Kung Fu" episodes?
Bin Laden is believed to have fled Tora Bora to neighbouring Pakistan. He was trying to get there, that would have been my guess
Despite several messages attributed to him since his presumed escape, there is no definitive proof to suggest whether he is alive or dead. Until we get a video of him holding up todays paper, I vote for dead.
A US reward of $8.5 million for his capture still stands.
The Moroccan officials said US forces in Afghanistan did not know who Tabarak was when they captured him and sent him to Guantanamo. His mug shot, sent around the world, was immediately identified by Moroccan officials, they added.
They said the ploy that allowed bin Laden to escape was widely known and celebrated among the prisoners at the military prison in Guantanamo. At least it's a good story. It may even be true, playing a tape of Binny's voice over the satellite phone is a nice trick. By this time, they knew we were listening in.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 08:54 am ||
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Tafadzwa Musekiwa, the MP for Zengeza (MDC), has fled into temporary exile in London to forestall an alleged plot by Zanu PF to eliminate him and other young MDC activists. âI had specific information that I was on a government hit list together with Job Sikhala,â Musekiwa said by telephone from London yesterday. "Better gone than decomposing, eh?"
Sikhala is the MP for St Maryâs (MDC). Musekiwa said the plot to eliminate him was allegedly being spearheaded by the Minister for Information and Publicity in the Presidentâs Office, Professor Jonathan Goebbels Moyo. The junior minister has frequently attacked the MP and his young colleagues in the opposition MDC as immature politicians. âWe have been hauled before the courts on spurious charges as part of the harassment and a demonisation campaign by Professor Moyo who is keen to see this strategy work, but it wonât succeed,â Musekiwa said. He said Sikhala and him had been arrested more frequently than any other MDC MPs since they became parliamentarians. âIt is an intimidation tactic, an attempt to harass and demoralise us.â Looks like it's succeeded, since you've been run out of town...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 07:10 pm ||
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London seems a hospitable place for people facing the death sentence or a hit, either side of the fence.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
01/22/2003 0:11 Comments ||
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Pyongyang, January 20 (KCNA) — A "Rally of the South Headquarters of the National Alliance of Youth and Students for the Country's Reunification for Peace Against War, Conclusion of a Non-Aggression Treaty Between North Korea and the U.S. and the Withdrawal of the U.S. Troops Who Killed Schoolgirls" was reportedly held in Seoul on Jan. 17 with the participation of youth and students. That's the longest organizational title I've ever seen...
The participants strongly demanded the U.S. accept the north's proposal for concluding a non-aggression treaty and withdraw its troops. They arrived at Kwanghwamun, shouting slogans reading "Conclude non-aggression treaty" and "Halt nuclear threat" and distributing literature among citizens and held a rally to send a delegation carrying a protest letter addressed to bush to the U.S. embassy. Another (yawn!) Telling Blow™ against U.S. Imperialism®...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 06:33 pm ||
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Police in Sistan-Baluchestan province said Monday that over 700 kg of narcotics has been seized from a gang of drug traffickers, IRNA reported. It added that the haul consisted of 200 kg of opium with the remaining comprising hashish. Large numbers of ammunition and a satellite phone were also seized form traffickers. The report did not refer to the number of the gang members arrested. Which implies they got away...
Iran lies on an international drugs trade route, which originates from Afghanistan and Pakistan and stretches as far as the Persian Gulf Arab states, Europe and beyond. More than 3,100 members of Iranian armed forces have been killed in cross-border clashes with drug traffickers during the civil disorder in neighboring Afghanistan in the past 20 years. Others have pocketed some pretty lucrative protection money...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 06:29 pm ||
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Prospective Palestinian suicide bombers should not miss the opportunity of striking at the increased number of US troops in the region, a leading Iranian hardliner wrote Tuesday. In an editorial in his Keyhan newspaper, Hossein Shariatmadari reasoned that American troops were a far easier target for "martyrdom-seeking operations" than Israelis. He's probably right, since our guys aren't familiar with the tactics the way the IDF is. On the other hand, they learn quickly, most can't tell the difference between a Paleostinian and an Iranian — or care. Be very careful what you wish for...
"Hundreds of young Palestinians are ready to carry out martyrdom-seeking operations... so why should they not make the most of the presence of US troops in the region to take revenge," the vocal hardliner said. Self-preservation immediately springs to mind. Y'see, if we were to get boomed by Paleoheroes at the instigation of Teheran newspaper editors who don't expect to actually have to explode themselves, chances are we'd come looking for the instigators...
"It would be easier than carrying out such operations in Palestine." For a little while...
Shariatmadari said if such suicide attacks began in the event of a US attack on Iraq, "without doubt the Muslim masses would mobilise to take part in this holy war. Is the American presence in the region not a golden opportunity for those seeking martyrdom to realise their dream?" Your dream could turn out to be your worst nightmare, Bub...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 06:26 pm ||
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It seems to me I've heard this song before. Then, it was Pakistani mullahs singing it to Pakistani boys. And lots of 'em went off to fight the Great Satan, and didn't come back (whole). And their folks were mighty upset with the mullahs for this.
It's heart-warming to see how the Iranians are ready to fight to the last drop of Palestinian blood.
#2
I've said it before: in a strange way, wouldn't it be a good thing for the jihadis to try and hit us in Iraq? As Angie points out, the last time this was tried the guys with the pitchforks and torches were slaughtered. You can't just walk into Iraq and with our JSTARS, anything moving that doesn't have that "friendly" icon hovering over it is going to be fried. Fred's right too: at first they may pull a few stunts, but we learned a few tricks in Afghanistan too. Our guys aren't going to let anyone in civvies who looks Arabic to get anywhere near them without lots of questions and nakedness.
But again, it is very interesting how this Iranian editor is so eager for Palestinians to die for the cause...why isn't he asking Iranians to do the job?
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
01/22/2003 3:42 Comments ||
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An Iraqi envoy held talks in Sudan on Sunday as part of Baghdad's diplomatic efforts to rally Arab support against possible U.S. military strikes. The official Sudan News Agency (SUNA) quoted Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf as saying after his meetings: "Iraq, Sudan and the other local dictatorships sisterly Arab countries will do their utmost to prevent aggression on Iraq." Thanks for your support!
The United States has said it would know "in a matter of weeks" whether Iraq was cooperating with arms inspectors and has threatened to launch a war to enforce Baghdad to come clean on alleged nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. SUNA said Sahaf, who delivered a message to Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir from Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, also said: "Launching war against Iraq will be unethical and unjust and that will amount to a criminal act." Yeah. That sounds like what the Iraqis and their surrogates have been saying...
Sahaf also met Sudanese Foreign Minister Mustafa Osman Ismail. "Sudan is in solidarity with Iraq, all Arab nations have to prevent any aggression on Iraq," Ismail was quoted as saying. "And when it's all over, we'll kiss the hand of whoever wins. We promise..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 06:14 pm ||
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Sudan? Sudan? We're supposed to give a crap what Sudan thinks? Hello!
Talks to end Sudan's 19-year civil war are due to resume in Kenya on Wednesday after mediators said they had ironed out a dispute which delayed last week's scheduled meeting. The talks had been due to resume on January 15 in the Kenyan town of Machakos but the Sudanese government refused to send its delegation, saying it had not agreed to discuss the status of three disputed regions on the agenda. "We held a symposium over the past few days in order to iron out the conflict issues, and we are now ready to proceed with the main talks tomorrow," Chief mediator Lazarus Sumbeiywo of Kenya told Reuters on Tuesday. He said the two sides had agreed that the status of the Nuba, Southern Blue Nile and Abyei areas would be dealt with separately at a later stage in the peace process. Both sides claim the areas. Waht the hell? It's been going on for 19 years. What's another 19 years of negotiations while they're killing each other?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 06:07 pm ||
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WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has ordered the Navy to double the number of aircraft carrier battle groups positioned within striking distance of of a large number of people who deserve to get thumpedIraq, defense officials said Tuesday.
Gee-whiz troop level statistics snipped
The carrier battle group led by the USS Constellation is operating in the northern Persian Gulf, the USS Harry S. Truman battle group is in the Mediterranean Sea, and Rumsfeld ordered two more groups to join them. They will be the Everett, Wash.-based USS Abraham Lincoln, now operating near Australia, and a carrier from the Norfolk, Va.-based Atlantic Fleet.
Gee-whiz CAW statistics snipped
Lt. Cmdr. Dave Werner, an Atlantic Fleet spokesman, said the fleet commander, Adm. Robert Natter, decided Tuesday the Norfolk carrier will be the USS Theodore Roosevelt, assuming it successfully completes training now under way in the Caribbean Sea. The Roosevelt's last deployment began just days after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, and it operated in the northern Arabian Sea during the U.S.-led air campaign over Afghanistan.
Natter also has available for short-notice deployment the USS George Washington, which returned from a six-month tour in the Mediterranean shortly before Christmas and would normally not deploy again for at least 12 months.
Officials said Rumsfeld was considering sending one or two additional carriers to the Gulf region, for a potential total of six. (4th Infantry, Turkey, etc. etc. see below)
Carriers five and six would likely be Washington, still on post-deployment standby at Norfolk, and Carl Vinson. By all accounts, Vinson's crew has done a tremendous job to get their ship through the yard and training periods quickly. Nimitz had some problems late last year, is now slightly behind its training schedule, and is trying to catch up. If Nimitz can catch up, that might make seven carriers.
Might even send USS Kitty Hawk, for eight (!) carriers, although that would leave East Asia without carrier cover. Kitty Hawk is doing carrier qualifications right now. I suppose it depends on how hairy things get in the Middle East - if Hezbollah joins the fray, what Syria does, etc. But I'd say the more the merrier. The presence of so many floating truncheons might discourage mischief from other quarters.
Eisenhower, Stennis, Enterprise and Kennedy are undergoing maintenence and/or overhauls. They will be unavailable.
Posted by: Pete Stanley (not Peter Stan) ||
01/21/2003 03:38 pm ||
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I dont think in my lifetime I can ever remember this much navy hardware being forward deployed. its got me thinking that someone is very worried about the fleet being hit while in harbor.
Are we really sure that Iraq is the target for all this or is this activity really masking something else.
( ok, im switching to decaf...)
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
01/21/2003 20:37 Comments ||
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A first wave of mainly Western suckers volunteers will leave London this weekend on a convoy bound for Iraq to act as "human shields" at key sites and populous areas in case of a U.S.-led war on Baghdad. "The potential for white Western body parts flying around with the Iraqi ones should make them think again about this imperialist oil war," organizer Ken Nichols, a former U.S. marine in the 1991 Gulf War, told Reuters. Yo, Ken! Iraqis are white, sez me, a former U.S. soldier in the Vietnam war. Maybe you should tell Rooters, too...
His "We the Twits People" organization will be sending off a first group of 50 paragons of intellect human shields from the London mayor's City Hall building Saturday, part of a series of departures organizers say will involve hundreds, possibly thousands, of volunteers. Nichols' planned human shield convoys are one of several such efforts around the world to mobilize activists in Iraq as a deterrent against military strikes on Baghdad. No skin off my fore. Best of luck to all you dictator-loving orifices...
In Bucharest, more than 100 Romanian diehard communists said Tuesday they would travel by bus to Iraq to act as human shields in case of a U.S. attack. Members of the tiny Romanian Workers Party, which took the mantle of ousted dictator Nicolae Ceausescu's defunct Communist party in 1995, said they would set off next month to support "the cause of the people." That makes sense. Sammy and Taha and Tariq and Chemical Ali are people, too. Apparently some Romanians are just yearning for the old days of peace, stability, and the Securitate. It'll be like old home week, only the girls are prettier in Bucharest.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 03:31 pm ||
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Even if they do survive the onslaught, how are they going to get back?
Seems when Congress invoked the 'War Powers' act late last year against Iraq, that pretty much places these Swiftian American yahoos into the 'aid and abet the enemy' clause of the Constitution. If the local liberated Iraqis don't do harm to them, the'll find themselves classified as agents of a belligerent power captured [?]on the battlefield.
Posted by: Don ||
01/21/2003 15:55 Comments ||
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You can take a bus from Romania to Iraq? That sounds like the Greyhound from Hell.
#3
I'm not the first one to make this point, but it bears repeating: the sock puppets who pull stunts like this are the same sock puppets who whinge and moan about the U.S. being a facist totalitarian murderous rapacious baby killing monster run amok you get the idea. But the very fact that these pinheads think their presence in Iraq would be enough to prevent US bombs proves that, whether they admit it (or even know it) or not, they actually believe the US to be a moral country (I don't believe countries can be moral or immoral, but you know what I mean) - can you imagine anyone, even these idiots, acting as human shields to stop an Iraqi, or North Korean, or Syrian, or shit, even Cuban, attack? Of course not. None of those countries ever hesitates to slaughter innocent civilians, whether their own citizens or not. Nichols' clueless cohorts' plan presupposes that the U.S. and Britain would not intentionally drop bombs on civilians.
That being said, ciao. More candidates for the 2003 Darwin awards.
#6
Sounds like we could get ourselves a two-fer: nail Saddam and a few Romaanian Workers Party lemmings. Perhaps the Bucharest government will express their gratitude in some way.
Stubby is right: the human shields' only hope is that we're too decent and moral to attack an Iraqi AAA gun or ammo depot in the presence of these mopes. It also demonstrates the moral bankruptcy of both the shields and of Saddam. Betcha they don't realize that, of course.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/21/2003 18:18 Comments ||
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If they think that, they're toast. I'll be really surprised if the commanders on the spot give them a second thought.
Posted by: Fred ||
01/21/2003 18:41 Comments ||
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It's ying and yang, they provide the suicide bombers, we provide the suicide targets. Symmetry in nature, all about Ms Crow's "kharma". Bunch of loosers.
Posted by: john ||
01/21/2003 19:18 Comments ||
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If these humanoid shields are two dimensional thinkers, then they have a chance of survival when the ordinance falls from above if they are on the perimeter. If they cover the earth, like the paint commercial, then it's like hitting an army ant bivouac. The main point is that these folks consider themselves civilians, but they have volunteered for this duty, so they are combatants, and are subject to redefinition as "toast" if the occasion occurs. To keep the CNN types from exploiting the situation, an EMP pulse bomb should be used to shut off the media switch right before the mission.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
01/21/2003 19:59 Comments ||
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A National Post column (no link yet) today made this point: these human shields are going because they think that they're more important than Iraqis. In their minds, their deaths as white Westerners would be more important or more newsworthy than the deaths of Iraqi civilians. So they go, expecting that to make a difference. It apparently doesn't occur to them that the US and British forces would take the deaths of Iraqi civilians just as seriously as the deaths of Westerners. Which means, of course, that those forces will have no greater reluctance to kill those Westerners if it is militarily necessary than to kill anyone else.
Posted by: Patrick ||
01/21/2003 21:29 Comments ||
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Those morons might actually learn something when they get over there: like how the Iraqi people don't actually love Saddam after all, and how *they* are not welcome. And they'll learn a little something about Islamic attitudes to kuffars/women no doubt, too.
Posted by: Down Under ||
01/21/2003 22:38 Comments ||
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As Dem Beste points out, Ken Nichol's and company are going real slow in order to get to Iraq. They are taking a car. By the time they get to Turkey, the bombs should be falling. They will be too late to get killed.
Posted by: Ben ||
01/22/2003 3:17 Comments ||
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A Northwest Airlines pilot has been arrested after airport officials discovered a loaded gun in his his carry-on luggage at La Guardia International Airport in New York. The gun was reportedly found as the pilot was trying to board a flight for Detroit. He'd been scheduled to be the co-pilot. Robert B. Donaldson is charged with three counts of criminal possession of a weapon. Prosecutors say he could face up to 15 years in prison. "G'morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is your pilot. We're cruising at 30,000 feet, and I've just hijacked the plane..."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 03:21 pm ||
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Hey - I thought pilots could carry guns now?
What gives?
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
01/21/2003 15:36 Comments ||
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A van containing explosives was caught Tuesday evening adjacent to the Green Line, within Israeli territory. The van was caught west of Taibeh, not far from Umm al-Fahm, after security forces obtained intelligence reports regarding terrorists' attempts to infiltrate Israel. Border Policemen stopped the vehicle, and four people who were in the car fled the scene. Policemen conducted searches for two of the men in areas controlled by the Palestinian Authority. The other two suspects escaped to the vicinity of Umm al-Fahm. Beating a hasty, but Islamic retreat...
According to an initial investigation, the car license plates were counterfeit. Police sappers arrived at the scene, and found the explosive device comprised of about 300 kilograms of explosives as well as gas canisters. The security establishment is not ruling out the possibility that the suspects who fled the car were armed or carrying explosives belts. Too bad they weren't smoking. Doing so while sitting on 660 pounds of explosives is a quick way to end the habit...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 03:17 pm ||
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These are some of the major headlines and their brief stories in Turkey's press on January 21, 2003. The Anadolu Agency does not verify these stories and does not vouch for their accuracy.
The government has started to make a direct bargaining with the U.S. Treasury about the losses that Turkish economy would suffer in case of an operation against Iraq. Prime Minister Abdullah Gul said, ''about this issue, we are bargaining not with the IMF and the World Bank but with the U.S. Treasury Department.'' Meanwhile, State Minister Ali Babacan said he had been holding telephone conversations about the Iraq issue for a few times a week with the U.S. Secretary of Treasury. He said, ''what kind of a package would be prepared for the Iraq issue with the U.S. Treasury will be given shape according to talks. Important progress was recorded. Maybe it would be a donation or a specific amount of loan.'' "Small bills, non-sequential, leave it under the park bench"
A strict bargaining was made on the number of U.S. soldiers to be deployed in Turkey with U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Richard Myers who spent 18 hours in Ankara. The United States decreased the number of soldiers to 15 thousand while Ankara insisted on a number below 10 thousand. Ankara gave the message of ''decrease your demands to reasonable levels.'' During Myers' 18-hour stay in Ankara, two important files were brought onto the agenda. Ankara maintained its insistence that the number of U.S. soldiers to be deployed in Turkey should not exceed 10 thousand while it gave the message that it would bring the decision on other demands to the parliament after the U.N. resolution on January 27. Not more than 10 thousand in Turkey, is that total or at one time? How about we fly in 9000, then after they are across the border, we bring in 9000 more? That work for you?
Babekir Bedirhan, the military commander of Bahdinan region that is controlled by Iraqi Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) leader Massoud Barzani in Northern Iraq, said that the number of Turkish soldiers in the region was exaggerated. Bedirhan said, ''the number of Turkish soldiers deployed in Amadiye town, Bamerni Airport, Sersing and Sirye regions that are 30 kilometers from the border was almost five hundred. This number has currently increased a little. Turkey exists here for its security.'' Turkish-CNN team and DHA correspondent entered Northern Iraq and televised existence of Turkish troops in northern Iraq. Here are the Turkish troops in four bases in Northern Iraq:
''BAMERNI: 15 tanks, 15 armored vehicles; KANIMASI: 15 tanks, 15 armored vehicles, 150 soldiers; AMADIYE: 2 tanks, 2 armored vehicles; SIHRIYE: 2 tanks, 2 armored vehicles''. Of course, that's the ones they were allowed to report on.
U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Richard Myers who came to Ankara after visiting Incirlik base met with General Staff Chief General Hilmi Ozkok at dinner two days ago. Ozkok gave Myers who stressed importance of northern front and repeated demands for support of Turkey the message that ''decrease your demands to reasonable level.'' At the meeting, the report that U.N. weapon inspectors will present on January 26 and determination of existence of chemical and biological weapons in Iraq were discussed. Within this scope, Myers stressed importance of Turkey and northern front in operation to overthrow Saddam Hussein and repeated their demands. Ozkok gave him the message that ''decrease your demands to reasonable level. A new list of demands should be negotiated.'' Myers was told that use of all of the bases and ports where site-survey by U.S. experts was allowed was impossible and that only Diyarbakir, Batman and Incirlik bases might suffice such an operation. It was mentioned that the demand for number of U.S. soldiers to be deployed in Turkey was decreased from 120 thousand to 25 thousand in the meetings but Myers was told that even this number was unacceptable for Turkish public opinion. Holding a press conference prior to his departure from Ankara, Myers said that there was not a lack of cooperation between Turkey and the United States. They seem pretty firm on this point. Seen the same report from a lot of sources.
U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Richard Myers defended that they concentrated mass of weapons and troops in the region in order to assist the U.N. activities and settle peace. Myers said they were patiently waiting for support decision of Ankara, adding, ''cooperation will continue.'' Meanwhile, the General Staff gave Myers the message that, ''we cannot meet all of your military demands. You should better decrease your demands.'' At the meetings, it was adopted that Turkey and the United States would cooperate with the aim to have the NATO take a decision on an operation against Iraq. NATO is supposed to have agreed to protect Turkey from an Iraqi counter-attack.
French Ambassador in Ankara Bernard Garcia said that a military operation against Iraq could come onto the agenda as the last alternative only after all solution efforts through political ways were exhausted. Garcia said they did not think it right for the United States to give the start for military preparations in Turkey before completion of U.N. weapon inspectors' report. Noting that there was not a condition like Turkey's contribution to an operation against Iraq for IMF support, Garcia said defended that influence of Europe within the IMF was two-fold of the influence of the United States. Stressing that war hampered reforms, Garcia said that war might slow down Turkey's integration with the EU. Is that a threat? After you said no to Turkey last time they were up for membership in the EU, I don't think you have much leverage.
Prime Minister Abdullah Gul sent a letter to U.S. President George Bush and stressed that the government was determined to continue the economic program without disruption. Gul also said improvement of bilateral relations with the United States would accelerate this process. "Is the check in the mail, George?"
Foreign ministers of Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria are expected to come together prior to a meeting that Turkey plans to host to seek peaceful ways to solve Iraq issue with participation of heads of state and government of these five countries. Foreign ministers of Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria would come together with Foreign Minister Yasar Yakis on January 23 or 24. However, bargainings are under way between Ankara and Arab countires on place of this summit meeting. Foreign Minister Yakis said that talks on ''whether or not the meeting in question would be held in Turkey or Damascus'' were continuing with sister countries. Meanwhile, Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi said that Ankara summit would be held in level of heads of state and government while Damascus meeting would be held in level of foreign ministers. Diplomatic sources said foreign ministers would prepare philosophical infrastructure of the initiative and that the meeting of heads of state and government would be built on that infrastructure. OK, they have not yet decided on where the meetings will take place, and there are two meetings. Glad they cleared that up.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 12:11 pm ||
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#1
Europe offers harrassment over IMF membership and continued footdragging on entrance to the EU, the US can offer Turkish entrance into NAFTA, the removal of a wannabe nuclear psycho on their southern border and some control over the resolution of the Kurd issue in Iraq.
Let me see, what would I choose, give me a moment.
#2
The EU is playing Turkey for a fish. They do not want the Turks in the EU, but Turkey is useful to them as a great wedge to drive in Bush's war plans. Turkey has political problems with its populace. I'm sure that there are political agitators keeping this kettle simmering, trying to make it boil over. Also Turkey has its own designs on land, keeping Kurds at bay, etc. I'm not an expert on Turkey, but how much do we need them...what should be the extent of the interaction? In short, how much of yours and my $ do we have to shell out to get the results we need from renting Turkey? Some places are a bottomless money pit, like PakLand. In my engineering designs, it's cost/benefit ratio. Some ideas, please.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
01/21/2003 14:38 Comments ||
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#3
I may be wrong on this, but I'm about ready to tell the Turks to stuff it. We're supposed to be ALLIES. I don't recall Tony Blair asking for financial guarantees, and I don't recall the Aussies negotiating over what they'll do and for how much.
If I were the American ambassador to Turkey (and somehow I never made the short list for that job) I'd remind the Turks that:
1) we have a long memory
2) they depend on us for their security in lots of other ways
3) the Arabs don't like 'em, not since that Ottoman Empire thing
4) we're not setting up shop in Turkey permanently, we just want to pass through, and
5) remember Article V of the NATO treaty?
I'd offer to compensate them for the costs they bear in letting us pass through, and I'd offer them some portion of the Mosul oil to compensate them for their economic problems with the war. After that, they're either friends or not, and we'll remember whatever they decide.
We may need a northern front, but we don't need one this badly.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/21/2003 18:26 Comments ||
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#4
Rather than make any demands which this Government dislikes, we should simply make certain our Kurdish Allies are very well armed, and, with Special Forces help, very well trained. These Turkish Politicians can sit home and discover the danger of pricing their assistance above their worth. They need to learn the difference between holding someone up for a building permit and dealing with American Friends.
#5
Hello all, whatâs the fury about? Who says that Turkey should follow always US interests? Does the US ever think even a tiny second to place other ones interest in front of their own interests. I donât want to complain but the mess papa Bush created landed on our plate, and not yours! If Bush wants to play the lord of the ring after the two towers incident in NY, thatâs his business, but donât create more mess to be left unsolved once again afterward. Greetings from Istanboel.
Posted by: Murat ||
01/22/2003 1:56 Comments ||
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#6
Careful Steve, Always remember this may be just distraction, and not for our benefit. Any apparent and public infighting on our side might, not always, but might, be a ruse to distract or fool Sammy. Are the Turks our friends is impossible to for us tell at this stage from the public reports. We don't know what is really going on. Only Gul, Oskok and our guys at the Pentagon really know
Posted by: Ben ||
01/22/2003 3:26 Comments ||
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#7
Murat has a point, but the US does indeed consider the interests of others. Probably about as much as Turkey considers the interest of others in its affairs. He's also got a point about the aftermath of this war. Turkey has been an EXCELLENT friend of the U.S. and this time we do need to make sure that Turkey doesn't suffer inordinately and that it gets as much benefit out of this war as we get.
I think a deal will be worked out. I also do not think that the northern front is going to be very important. We'll work with the Turks. I have a very warm spot in my heart for them. After 9/11 a group working at my company's Istanbul office went out of their way to offer condolences. I won't forget that, nor their help in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
Posted by: R. McLeod ||
01/22/2003 3:54 Comments ||
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#8
Thank you R. McLeod, Turkey has indeed extraordinary friendly ties with the US. The problem is that many in the US cannot or do not comprehend fully what the US actions create to Turkey. You have to understand that Turkey neighbours Iraq (and Iran). Even agreed that these two are not the most favourable neighbours to have, they are a geographical fact. People have no idea what kind of havoc the past US policies have done to the Turkish economy (embargo against Iraq and Iran). One must only try to imagine what would happen with the US economy if there would be an embargo against Canada and Mexico.
I think the northern front is essential, Iraq counts 22mln people, to occupy such a land you need a variety of bases for logistics. I am thinking also that a deal will be worked out the US has just to pay a little more attention to their allies. While beating up the bad guy she should take care of not injuring their friends also.
Posted by: Murat ||
01/22/2003 4:56 Comments ||
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A Kenyan working with the United States to capture a Rwandan genocide suspect with a $5 million bounty on his head has been killed. William Mwaura Munuhe was found dead at his home in the affluent Nairobi suburb of Karen on Jan. 17, two days after the U.S. Embassy and Kenyan police tried to trap genocide suspect Felicien Kabuga, police spokesman King'ori Mwangi said. There was blood on Munuhe's body, Mwangi said, but the cause of death has not been determined. The independent Daily Nation newspaper reported Tuesday that Munuhe, 27, was shot in the head but that his death was made to look like a suicide from carbon monoxide poisoning. "Doctor? Are you sure it was CO poisoning? That bullet wound in his ear hole looks mighty suspicious..."
The U.S. Embassy suspects the killing "was connected with Kabuga's efforts to evade capture," spokesman Peter Claussen said. Kabuga, a wealthy businessman from Rwanda's majority Hutu community, is alleged to have helped finance the 1994 genocide in which more than 500,000 Rwandans, most of them minority Tutsis, were killed. Earlier this month, Pierre-Richard Prosper, the U.S. ambassador at large for war crimes, said Kabuga received Kenyan government help â including from an official in the Cabinet of former President Daniel arap Moi â in remaining a fugitive. So maybe he had official help in bumping off poor Bill? Inspector Camembert! Call your office!
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
01/21/2003 12:26 pm ||
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Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas shelled Israeli positions in a disputed border area Tuesday, the first such attack in months, provoking Israeli airstrikes and artillery fire that wounded two civilians, security officials said. In Israel, military officials confirmed the exchange, saying the army returned fire and sent helicopters into air. The Lebanese officials said the guerrillas fired around 25 rockets and mortar shells on the Israeli military outpost of Roueissat el-Alam inside the Chebaa Farms area. There were no reports of injuries from the Hezbollah attack. A Hezbollah statement issued in Beirut said its guerrillas targeted the outpost "as a group of (Israeli) soldiers were outside the post's fortifications." The statement said guerrillas fired at the outpost using "appropriate weapons and scoring direct hits." "We saw someone outside a bunker, lobbed a few rounds in the general direction, and ducked."
Israeli troops retaliated with two airstrikes and 155 mm artillery fire on suspected guerrilla hide-outs in the hills on the outskirts of Kfar Chouba, a small farming village near the Chebaa Farms area, the Lebanese officials said. That would now be the "former" hide-outs.
Two civilians were wounded by shrapnel in the village of Hibbariyeh near Kfar Chouba, the officials said. These would be the same "civilians" you find near Iraqi targets
The border area has been largely quiet since August, when the guerrillas fired mortar rounds and missiles at Israeli outposts, killing an Israeli soldier and wounding two others. Testing response times? Notice the attack came from Lebanon and not the Syrian Hezbollah, Lebanon being expendable.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 10:32 am ||
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Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher said Tuesday that his country sees no reason to hold a summit in Istanbul on the Iraqi crisis, adding that he has expressed his readiness to hold a foreign ministerial meeting in any agreed upon place.
The Middle East News Agency (MENA) quoted Maher as saying that he has never agreed on the recommendation to hold a summit in Istanbul on the Iraqi issue and conveyed that in all of his contacts he asserted that Egypt agrees on holding a foreign ministers meeting. Snubbing Turkey, or doesn't want a high-level summit? Knows it won't do any good, so he wants it at the foreign minister level? Or does he want any meeting to be held in Egypt?
Turkey has recommended to hold a sextet meeting to discuss the Iraqi issue in Istanbul. The meeting would group Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan and Iran. On Monday night, Maher held contacts with the foreign ministers of Saudi, Syria and Jordan in which he discussed the Turkish invitation to hold a regional conference on the Iraqi crisis to be held next Thursday.
Meanwhile, Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal met Tuesday with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak . "The main point on the agenda of the (Istanbul) meeting will be to avoid any military action on Iraq. This is the most important thing not only for the Iraqi people but the peoples of the region and the interests of the world at large," Prince Saud said. "All of us have ideas for what might happen. These ideas will be conveyed to official sides and until that happens I think it is inappropriate to talk about them. I cannot talk about any details." He seems to want to talk
Prince Saud dismissed reports in Arab and Western media in recent days that Arab leaders, particularly Saudi officials, were working to persuade Saddam to go quietly into exile or even to foment a coup against him. "I think it is incorrect to talk about interference in Iraq's internal affairs," the prince said. "Talk about amnesty or an exile is something that should be determined by the Iraqi people." Running away from this issue. Did the word go out from Baghdad that Sammy was pissed off about people talking about him leaving?
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 09:21 am ||
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#1
Must be alla them sloppily dead messengers all over the throne room floor...
#2
The more the communist dregs in the US march for Saddam and the more the cheese and snail eaters do the appeasement dance, the more Saddam can last (and the more torturing, killing, raping and stealing his regime can carry out).
More than 12,000 soldiers from elements of the mechanized 4th Infantry Division at Fort Hood are expected to deploy for the Central Command region, a fort spokesman said. The deployment date is unknown. The division's 3rd Brigade, stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado, also received orders that affect almost 4,000 troops. When those troops move out, the United States will have deployed about 123,000 troops from various military branches to the region. Britain announced Monday that it is deploying an additional 26,000 troops with 120 Challenger tanks and 150 Warrior armored personnel carriers to the Persian Gulf region for potential operations in Iraq. Those troops include the 7th Armored Brigade, known as the Desert Rats, and 16th Air Assault Brigade.
The 4th Infantry Division is composed of heavy mechanized weaponry -- including the latest M1A2 Abrams tanks -- Bradley fighting vehicles and 155 mm howitzers. An airborne element consists of anti-armor AH-64 Apache attack helicopters and UH-60 Black Hawk transports. The division will spearhead what the Army calls Task Force Iron Horse, a joint air and ground force of more than 37,000 troops from more than 10 military installations around the country. Elements of the 3rd Infantry Division are already deployed in the Persian Gulf region or are on the way from the unit's two posts in Georgia.
Although the task force's role has not been made public, Army officials said its mission is part of the president's plan to reposition troops to fight terrorism. When the division prepares to move, its tanks, armored vehicles and helicopters will be loaded onto railroad cars to begin the journey to the Central Command region, which includes the Persian Gulf.
A greater amount of similar heavy equipment is prepositioned at bases in the Central Command region and will be activated as troops arrive. This is the largest call-up of troops from a single military installation since Christmas Eve, when Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld signed the first deployment orders in the build-up for a possible military strike against Iraq.
Fort Hood is the largest U.S. military installation, with more than 40,000 troops. I don't care what the EU or UN says. George is getting ready to drop a big steel hammer on Sammy's head.
Posted by: Steve ||
01/21/2003 08:25 am ||
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UNITED NATIONS, Jan. 20 -- France suggested today it would wage a major diplomatic fight, including possible use of its veto power, to prevent the U.N. Security Council from passing a resolution authorizing military action against Iraq.
France's opposition to a war, emphatically delivered here by Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, is a major blow for the Bush administration, which has begun pouring tens of thousands of troops into the Persian Gulf in preparation for a military conflict this spring. The administration had hoped to mark the final phase in its confrontation with Iraq when U.N. weapons inspectors deliver a progress report Monday.
But in a diplomatic version of an ambush, France and other countries used a high-level Security Council meeting on terrorism to lay down their markers for the debate that will commence next week on the inspectors' report. Russia and China, which have veto power, and Germany, which will chair the Security Council in February, also signaled today they were willing to let the inspections continue for months.
Only Britain appeared to openly support the U.S. position that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has thwarted effective inspections.
"If war is the only way to resolve this problem, we are going down a dead end," de Villepin told reporters. "Already we know for a fact that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs are being largely blocked, even frozen. We must do everything possible to strengthen this process."
The United Nations, he said, should stay "on the path of cooperation. The other choice is to move forward out of impatience over a situation in Iraq to move towards military intervention. We believe that today nothing justifies envisaging military action."
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, in the face of such comments, departed from his prepared text on terrorism and implored his colleagues to remember that the Security Council resolution passed unanimously Nov. 8 gave Iraq "a last chance" to meet its obligations. "We must not shrink from our duties and our responsibilities when the material comes before us next week," Powell said. He used a variation of the phrase "must not shrink" three more times as he addressed the council.
During the weeks of debate on the Iraq resolution, French officials had indicated they were open to some sort of military intervention if Iraq did not comply. But now the French appear to have set much higher hurdles for support.
Rising opposition to war, particularly in France, appears to have played a role in the hardening positions on the Security Council. Foreign officials are also aware of polls in the United States suggesting that support for a war drops dramatically if the Bush administration does not have U.N. approval.
While the United Nations was debating today, U.S. military officials announced that the Army is sending a force of about 37,000 soldiers, spearheaded by the Texas-based 4th Infantry Division, to the Persian Gulf region. It is the largest ground force identified among an estimated 125,000 U.S. troops ordered to deploy since Christmas Eve, the Associated Press reported.
At the United Nations, several foreign ministers said a war in Iraq would spawn more terrorist acts around the globe and, in the words of Germany's Joschka Fischer, have "disastrous consequences for long-term regional stability."
"Terrorism is far from being crushed," said Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov. "We must be careful not to take unilateral steps that might threaten the unity of the entire [anti-]terrorism coalition. In this context we are strictly in favor of a political settlement of the situation revolving around Iraq."
Powell replied: "We cannot fail to take the action that may be necessary because we are afraid of what others might do. We cannot be shocked into impotence because we are afraid of the difficult choices that are ahead of us."
But when the foreign ministers emerged from the council debate and addressed reporters, it appeared that Powell's pleas had made little impact. Although President Bush said last week he was "sick and tired of games and deception," Fischer said the inspections were a success.
"Iraq has complied fully with all relevant resolutions and cooperated very closely with the U.N. team on the ground," Fischer said. "We think things are moving in the right direction, based on the efforts of the inspection team, and [they] should have all the time which is needed."
Chinese Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan said Monday's report should be regarded as a "new beginning" rather than an end to inspections. The chief weapons inspectors "have been talking about that there is more work to do in terms of the inspections and they need more time. I think we should respect their opinion and support their work."
De Villepin, in a lengthy and at times theatrical news conference, was asked whether France would use its veto power to thwart Washington's campaign for quick action. He said France "will shoulder its responsibilities, faithful to the principles it has."
France would never "associate ourselves with military intervention that is not supported by the international community," de Villepin added. "We think that military intervention would be the worst possible solution."
France, as chair of the Security Council this month, had organized today's meeting on terrorism in part to draw attention to its contention that the Iraq situation has detracted from the more pressing need to confront international terrorism.
De Villepin reacted coolly to suggestions, made by senior Bush administration officials Sunday, that Hussein and his top advisers be offered political asylum outside Iraq to avert a war. "The problem is something more difficult than a question of change of regime," he said. "Let us not be diverted from our objective. It is the disarmament of Iraq."
U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan also indirectly criticized the prospect of war when he addressed the council on terrorism. "Any sacrifice of freedom or the rule of law within states -- or any generation of new disputes between states in the name of anti-terrorism -- is to hand the terrorists a victory that no act of theirs could possibly bring," he said, alluding to frequent U.S. assertions that the confrontation with Iraq is part of the larger war on terrorism.
The only sign of support for the U.S. position came from its closest ally, Britain. Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said "time was running out" for Hussein and his "cat and mouse" game. But Straw added that Britain preferred a U.N. resolution authorizing force.
"Iraq has a responsibility now to avoid a conflict, to avoid a war," Powell told reporters. "There is no question that Iraq continues to misunderstand the seriousness of the position that it's in.
"If the United Nations is going to be relevant," he added, "it has to take a firm stand."
Posted by: Bent Pyramid ||
01/21/2003 05:08 am ||
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#2
Simplisme! Cut the cheese-eating surrender monkeys from any post-war work/oil and expose their contacts in supplying Saddam with WMD. Same goes for Joshka and Gerhard.
Posted by: Frank G ||
01/21/2003 10:26 Comments ||
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#3
The UN (aka The Psychotic Dictator's Club) has been blatantly irrelevant for years. It's a cold-war gas factory designed to *avoid* decisions and action, and it has utterly outlived it's purpose.
#4
deBeste has an interesting take on this over at USS Clueless. Basically he suggests what would happen if France and Germany really had sold lots of nasty stuff to Iraq over the past decade and how they would react. Well their current reaction is very close to how they would react in that scenerio.
#5
what trouble me most is that when the French laid their ambush, Powell seemed taken by surprise, and and without a response. Now I know the admin could have deep plans that are not apparent(EG myabe we're not ready to go in till March anyway), but its starting to look like the Powell strategy of going through the UN, and compromising ont he first resolution, is not working. We're looking trapped. Unlike some others Im not sure we'll really go in with the UNSC against - i undestand the difference between multilateral and UNSC sanctioned, but I wonder if the Brits, Aussies, etc really have the nerve to go in without the UNSC. And if they dont, then it is pretty close to unilateral.
Id be happier if I knew of a "plan B" will the admin share more intel??? will we recognize a provisional govt, so we can have a casus belli other than WMD?
Im eager to see how this plays out the next two weeks
#6
Another Vichy government working in collaboration with a ruthless dictator. FDR didn't have problems running them over as the first act in the European Theater of Operations via Torch. Let's hope Bush doesn't either.
Posted by: Don ||
01/21/2003 16:01 Comments ||
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#7
The French say there's no proof Iraq has failed to disarm or currently maintains WMD. What tune will we be hearing from the French after Allied Forces LOCATE that which they say doesn't exist?
Posted by: Mark ||
01/21/2003 18:30 Comments ||
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#8
Steve DenBeste indeed has an interesting angle. He also notes that if the French do veto, for all intents and purposes the U.N. is dead as a major political force against terrorism and malignant despots. They'll have shown that the U.N. can't be counted on even to enforce their own resolutions.
The real wild card in this whole game will be the British Labour Party and Tony Blair. If France vetoes, and Blair decides that the Brits will still fight, I think there is at least a fair chance that the more anti-war militants in Labour would try to depose the PM, either through a quick party conference or a no-confidence vote in the House. That would be major trouble for us. Could we continue to mobilize and fight in Iraq if the Brits (by order of a new PM) suddenly backed out? Likewise, would Mr. Howard survive a similar situation in Australia?
I share liberalhawk's concern about the Brits and Aussies. They're our true friends, and you don't want to hang your true friends out to dry. I'm getting worried; I expected the French to growl and frown a lot, and in the end lay down. It's beginning to look like they're serious about a veto.
Posted by: Steve White ||
01/21/2003 18:36 Comments ||
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#9
The French KNOW we do not have to go back to the UN. The French KNOW that we are going into Iraq. What the French are doing is positioning themselves on the world stage for the post Iraq UN. For making a stand now, they stand to gain in stature with the rest of the world. I think DenBestes analysis is a little extreme, but the general trend is apparent. The US is unilateral, the British are toadies for following GW, so who is going to "lead" the world in a multilateral fashion? My prediction: UN headquaters to Geneva in 2004.
Posted by: john ||
01/21/2003 19:29 Comments ||
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#10
Re: John's comments. The UN runs on money, lots of it. Who provides the lion's share? Let them run to Geneva or wherever. Let th French do their political manoevres and become King S--t. Let them finance the new headquarters. Either way, stay or go, they or Ted Turner can finance it, we need to stop putting good money down the drain, and that will put a stop to this BS.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
01/21/2003 20:21 Comments ||
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#11
UN Inspectors' report on the 27th. State of the Union address on the 28th. Why don't we have this conversation again on the 29th?
den Beste says it's standard Bush operating procedure: Let opponents have the floor unopposed initially. Let them get cocky and get way out into the looneysphere, making them easy targets. Then cut them off at the knees with a major speech that changes everything.
SOTU last year featured Axis of Evil. This year, it could be Axing the Evil.
Posted by: Patrick ||
01/21/2003 21:48 Comments ||
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#12
--"Already we know for a fact that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs are being largely blocked, even frozen. We must do everything possible to strengthen this process."--
You first, what companies did business w/him, when, what did you supply him with for how long and how much?
#13
Den beste, as far as i can tell WANTS the UN to go under- on "jacksonian" grounds - he's positively salivating over it.
While i dont think we we should hold our security hostage to the UNSC, i think the post-cold war UN is, on balance, a good thing, and that its collpase would be a cost to the United States. Of course its collapse would be an even bigger cost to France, and so it seems like both sides are playing chicken. France wants us to not go to war. We want to go to war with UN backing, (or at least with a wink). If we go to war with UN opposition, everybody loses. Its a question fo who will blink.
Im also not sure about dne bestes view that Bush always turns it around with one speech. His UN speech in October didnt turn it around that far - thats how we ended up with res 1441, which still has enought holes for the French to try and squeak through. I think public diplomacy requires more than one speech every 4 months. I think we have a solid case on Iraq, and that we would be much further ahead on this if the admin was better at making it. I think we are paying or dubya's poor oratorical skills, and for the division in the admin, which largely results from - dare I say it - the intellectual weakness at the top. I HOPE to be proved wrong, but fear I won't be.
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Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
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