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Fifth Column | ||||
A few in military refuse to fight ’wrong war’ | ||||
2003-03-20 | ||||
Do these people really expect to be taken seriously? You're in the military! They fight wars! You volunteered! I got more respect for Rachel Corrie then these assholes... When Travis Clark joined the U.S. military at age 19, it seemed like a good way to travel and pay for college. It was 1996, the country was at peace, and Clark signed on for an eight-year hitch. I thought it was, like, the Job Corps... with guns. Now, with a year left on his contract, the Marine reservist from Plantation, Fla., says he won't go if his unit is called to serve in a war against Iraq. He is adding his voice to a small chorus of like-minded military personnel who say they will not fight for a cause they do not support. ''This war is the wrong war,'' says Clark, 25. ''I can't put myself into the position of going into another country and forcing them to defend themselves against me.'' I believe Travis's idea of the "right war" would be one he wouldn't have to fight in. Unlike during the Vietnam War era, when hundreds of thousands of men dodged the draft or sought the status of conscientious objector, today's military is composed solely of volunteers. About 2.7 million men and women serve in active-duty and reserve forces.It's uncertain how many say their conscience won't allow them to fight in Iraq. Last year, 29 people were discharged from the military as conscientious objectors. But peace groups say a hotline that counsels members of the military against war logged more than 3,500 calls in January, double its usual monthly average.''I don't think there is anything cowardly about standing up and saying, 'I won't be a part of this,' '' says Bill Galvin of the Center on Conscience and War in Washington, D.C.
Critics say a person who volunteers for the military and discovers an aversion to war on the brink of invading Iraq is being disingenuous at best and cowardly at worst. The government does recognize that views can change over the course of military service. Those who can prove a religious, ethical or moral opposition to all wars may apply for a discharge or transfer to a non-combat job as a conscientious objector. But the criteria for such cases are difficult. Those who don't receive such status but refuse to fight can face court-martial and penalties from dishonorable discharge to prison.
There's that name again. He's done so many great things... Opposition to a war in Iraq is a trickle compared with the Vietnam War era. Peace activists from the '60s are among those advising current military members how to follow their conscience and avoid war. ''I have no sympathy for Saddam Hussein. He's a blight on his people. But this war makes no sense,'' says Michael Simmons, 57, of the American Friends Service Committee, part of the Quaker religion. ..."but". The most important word in Leftyese. Wonder what's it's like to live in a time warp? Simmons was imprisoned in 1969 for 2 years for refusing to be drafted to fight in Vietnam. He says most servicemembers now wrestling with the possibility of killing Iraqis had joined the military for travel, self-improvement and other benefits promised by recruiters. ''I see these young kids who are going to be suffering from this for years to come — if they're lucky enough to come out alive. And that's not even to mention the effect on the Iraqi people,'' says Simmons, whose older brother, Reginald, served in Vietnam. ''It pains my heart.''
This guy should be shot. ''It had become obvious to me that the military was more a political tool than white knights in shining armor going off to save democracy,'' Wiggins says. ...but I must admit, serving did cut down on those med school bills. Even with the fine, I still came out ahead. His father told him he had brought such shame to the family that he didn't feel right hanging the American flag outside their home. Good for you, dad. But I'm sure Doc Dave could've cared less. About 500 servicemembers filed for conscientious objector status during the Persian Gulf War, according to the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress. Peace groups say as many as three times that number refused to fight, and many served prison sentences up to 18 months. Specifics, please. Cases, numbers? Until I see that, I say bullshit. None of this lefty generalist garbage. There have been conscientious objectors as long as there have been wars. In the Civil War, 4,000 soldiers whose religious beliefs prohibited killing for any reason served in unarmed positions. During World War II, 42,000 conscientious objectors refused to fight. Many went to prison, but 25,000 served in non-combat jobs, and 12,000 were placed in work camps. They volunteered to help in mental institutions and to serve in experiments on contracting pneumonia and the flu.
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Posted by:tu3031 |
#16 "SFC(R) C.J." Hey d-ass,When you ask to join a Volentary military.You had better expect to go to war,you don't have the luxuary to say"I quit"and slither home,without faceing serious consequiences. The military pays's matching funds in college money,why should the military pay these cowards for violateing thier contract. |
Posted by: raptor 2003-03-21 07:09:54 |
#15 -they can work at McDonald's and/or get student loans.- And there's always the 5-7 year plan. |
Posted by: Anonymous 2003-03-21 01:00:13 |
#14 What a fun thread! I've received two emails from a SFC(R) C.J. Townsend attacking me, not only for my comment, but the comments of others on this article! She says, "I have news for you, pal, anybody who can endure a few years in today's Army of One deserves a little college money for his or her troubles." Well, I agree. But I also think if they're joining just for the college money, they think they can pick and choose what orders they're going to follow, and they can just walk out when they feel like it, they're morons. It's the military. The military is called upon to fight wars. It's not a democracy. If they want college money and won't fight when ordered, they can work at McDonald's and/or get student loans. |
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg 2003-03-20 18:32:22 |
#13 One would have to be extremely dumb to NOT realize the military's sole purpose is to fight wars, either in defense of your country, or in aid of another country's liberation or defense. I can't think how anyone could not come to that conclusion. If one was a CO, they shouldn't volunteer. There's no draft. If I were young and healthy, I'd love to be over there with them as part of the troops too. |
Posted by: mog 2003-03-20 15:55:40 |
#12 I hope his comrades send him white feathers with their calling cards - just like they did in the movie. I say let him out with a dishonorable discharge after finishing out his contract (unpaid) in the brig. Let him rot away one full year of his 20's. Would you want to fight with this guy covering your back? With a dishonorable discharge following him FOR LIFE, even if he manages to scrape his way through college, with the menial tasks available to him, he'll quickly discover that a good number of jobs, credit and self-respect will forever be beyond his grasp. I say give him the albatross - he deserves it. |
Posted by: becky 2003-03-20 15:20:10 |
#11 And that's why to cry CO just before you're about to be sent to battle, when all this time you've kept quiet, is cowardly. |
Posted by: RW 2003-03-20 15:01:48 |
#10 I used to belong to the Church whose members are mentioned here as either serving as medics or as medical guinea pigs during WW II. The counsel of the Church is to file IMMEDIATELY for CO status the moment you're drafted, AND to apply for medically related services. And they weren't cowards. One was Desmond T. Doss, a Medal of Honor winner. The whole situation changes when there's a volunteer army, however. The Church said they couldn't help anyone or vouch for anyone who volunteered for the military, since that was totally inconsistent with a belief system worthy of CO status. |
Posted by: Ptah 2003-03-20 14:31:27 |
#9 They're nothing but cowards. |
Posted by: RW 2003-03-20 13:58:36 |
#8 A good solution for these volunteer "conscientious objectors" would be to garnish their wages until they have paid back all that the military has spent on them. That ON TOP of a dishonorable discharge. |
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2003-03-20 13:49:53 |
#7 here in San Diego the American Friends Service Committee has dedicated themselves to assisting illegal aliens in their trek into the country out of "humanitarian" reasons - they're garbage |
Posted by: Frank G 2003-03-20 13:36:13 |
#6 Any of 'em named Slovik? Eddie Slovik?... |
Posted by: mojo 2003-03-20 13:15:28 |
#5 I remember. I believe the concensus was...he's the dumb one. |
Posted by: tu3031 2003-03-20 12:53:27 |
#4 I posted an article about that Travis Burnham a week or so ago. I can not figure these people out! Do they think they're going to summer camp? That they're joining the Boy Scouts? There's no room for this crap in a VOLUNTEER military. |
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg 2003-03-20 12:49:25 |
#3 And that's why to cry CO just before you're about to be sent to battle, when all this time you've kept quiet, is cowardly. |
Posted by: RW 3/20/2003 3:01:48 PM |
#2 here in San Diego the American Friends Service Committee has dedicated themselves to assisting illegal aliens in their trek into the country out of "humanitarian" reasons - they're garbage |
Posted by: Frank G 3/20/2003 1:36:13 PM |
#1 Any of 'em named Slovik? Eddie Slovik?... |
Posted by: mojo 3/20/2003 1:15:28 PM |