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| Middle East | |||
| Hamas To Egptian Intelligence Official: Our Patience Has Limits | |||
| 2003-07-10 | |||
In an effort to avert a possible collapse of the fragile truce between Israel and Palestinians, Egypt has resumed its mediation efforts in Gaza for the purpose of reasserting the three-week truce, now endangered by increasing Israeli incursions into Palestinian population centers. On Wednesday, Col. Mustafa al Beheiri, Deputy-chief of the Egyptian Intelligence, arrived in Gaza to urge the leaders of Hamas and the Islamic Jihad to uphold the truce.
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| Posted by:Fred Pruitt |
| #10 The quickest way we (the US) can help bring peace there is to send more bricks and mortar to the Israelis and help finish their wall that much sooner. |
| Posted by: Dar 2003-7-10 10:01:51 AM |
| #9 Anon1 Most Muslims are decent people but that is _despite_ Islam. Read the book. Oh you will find some admirable sentences but these are Mecca surates, they are superceeded by the later Medina surates and these are full of megalomania: "God and his angels pray for Muhammad" (Since when God has _needed_ to pray?), greed andhate: "Rid the Arabic peninsula of Jews and Christians". I will not mention the racism in Haddiths: "Arabs are the best of men" or the repugnanat actions of Muhammad like extermination of entire tribes because he coveted their treasures or wanted to arep their women. So the problem is not Islamism, it is Islam. I will also add that in the case of Saudis they have a political and monetary interest in Islam: it is Islam who makes them from an un important people (except for their oil but oil wells can be captured) into the center of universe (Mecca and the hadj business) and the beacon of humankind (It looks like Afghans were pised by their arrogance). |
| Posted by: JFM 2003-7-10 9:58:35 AM |
| #8 When I first went back to Saudi Arabia, I ASKED one of my Saudi "friends" why he wasn't pissed, absolutely pissed, that his religion had been hi-jacked by the extremists. His response, this from my moderate Western-world loving fast-car driving hard-drinking (in Bahrain) woman-chasing Muslim friend, was that the Jews and their supporters have it coming. I mentioned that this must certainly include America, and thus Americans, so it included me. His response to that was surprise and, after a moment, a shrug. He had never thought it through and his childhood hate training was running the show - and he was unaware of it or its consequences. And this was a BRIGHT Saudi guy - an administrator who would someday be a manager in Aramco. Needless to say, I told him to go fuck himself. He wanted to "repair" the "friendship" - but it was obvious that he was schizophrenic, and the important part of him was the indoctrinated child who was taught to hate without question and believe without question. Over the next 3 years, I found him to be the norm not the exception. Remember Solaiman Faizi (look him up in Google) of the Mustafa Hotel in Kabul, Afghanistan? Same exact profile as your Saudi friend - he went to Rutgers, was quite a swordsman and drank up a storm in his college days. He drove a bright yellow Camaro. Whenever the subject of politics came up, he spent a lot of time railing both against America and against "the influence of Jews" in this country. And we went to school together. This is your moderate Muslim. I guess he's moderate compared to the Khmer Rouge or bin Laden, but I can't really see any other context in which he can be perceived as moderate. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2003-7-10 9:50:59 AM |
| #7 Anon1 - You can teach a child to believe anything - absolutely anything - all you need to do is whack it across the forehead, day in and day out, for years. This, they do for a lifetime. They inculcate total obedience to and faith in the Imams and Mullahs - whatever they interpret the words to mean is IT. Period. Once a person has been thus immersed and indoctrinated, they are lost to reason. Now I'd like to hear a recitation of the "moderate" Imams and Mullahs who have spoken out in Arabic in the Arabic Press with the same vehemence and indignity as the Islamozoids spew venom. Hasn't happened. Won't happen. When I first went back to Saudi Arabia, I ASKED one of my Saudi "friends" why he wasn't pissed, absolutely pissed, that his religion had been hi-jacked by the extremists. His response, this from my moderate Western-world loving fast-car driving hard-drinking (in Bahrain) woman-chasing Muslim friend, was that the Jews and their supporters have it coming. I mentioned that this must certainly include America, and thus Americans, so it included me. His response to that was surprise and, after a moment, a shrug. He had never thought it through and his childhood hate training was running the show - and he was unaware of it or its consequences. And this was a BRIGHT Saudi guy - an administrator who would someday be a manager in Aramco. Needless to say, I told him to go fuck himself. He wanted to "repair" the "friendship" - but it was obvious that he was schizophrenic, and the important part of him was the indoctrinated child who was taught to hate without question and believe without question. Over the next 3 years, I found him to be the norm not the exception. Daniel Pipes may be a smart guy. He may know things that I don't. But he doesn't know dick about Arabs, patricularly Saudi Wahabbi Sunnis and Pakistani Sunnis. I have neither seen nor heard anything significant come out of this so-called moderate Islam. Methinks it's a myth propagated by those who've "wished" this element into exsitence and want to think of themselves as fair and tolerant - and calling a spade a spade is too hard for them - they couldn't maintain the fantasy, if they did. |
| Posted by: PD 2003-7-10 9:19:49 AM |
| #6 Anon1 - maybe PD is over the top but he has some points. There are many people who do not think moderate Islam is possible in the long term. The hatred is latent in the Koran and the Hadiths. Many moderate anti-Wahabi muslims are filled with incandescent hatred (especially Jew hatred). I think Pipes knows this and considers moderate Islam to be only a temporary solution. The long term solution to Islam might be a mass movement of former Islamics denouncing Islam in arabic. |
| Posted by: mhw 2003-7-10 8:32:02 AM |
| #5 Anon1 - I agree with all you said here. I do believe, however, that this IS their last and only bonafide offer for a non-apocalyptic resolution. The roadmap is solely for political coverage - I certainly don't believe there's anyone over age 5 on either side who actually truly believes it will succeed. What I think will eventually happen is that some Pal symp will get his hands on a WMD and use it. How effective it is will be all that remains in question. The certainty is that, thereafter, no end will come until there is utter obliteration of the Pals and those who've been stupid enough to be publicly aligned with them. |
| Posted by: PD 2003-7-10 8:18:44 AM |
| #4 the US is the only reason Israel exists. They'd NEVER intentionally hurt that alliance! |
| Posted by: Anon1 2003-7-10 5:53:38 AM |
| #3 Unfortunately, PD americans through Bush are NOT saying to Asshat Pal Killers that their patience has limits. Au contraire... they are saying proceed as you did at Oslo. I hate to say this, I wish it were different BUT why the hell are they tolerating Paleo breaking of the peace, proceeding ahead with the Roadmap, and allowing Israel to be bullied into releasing Paleo terrorists? They are STILL not acknowledging publicly that teh paleo terrorist groups do not accept Israel's right to exist and have declared a tactical ceasefire only - they do NOT agree to the roadmap. Really the tanks would have rolled in by now if they were serious but they have not so I doubt the gumption behind it. Watch the paleos go on bombing as if nothing has changed. |
| Posted by: Anon1 2003-7-10 5:50:16 AM |
| #2 c'mon PD it isn't ALL of Islam that is bad, Just the Islamofascist fundamentalists. They are trying their hardest to win over/bully the secular muslims community, who are not a problem for anyone and who are part of life's rich tapestry. As Daniel Pipes says: Islamism is the problem, moderate Islam is the solution. |
| Posted by: Anon1 2003-7-10 5:43:26 AM |
| #1 Americans to Asshat Pal Killers: Our Patience Has Limits. And, BTW, this is your last chance to ever have a Pal "state" - whatever the phuck that means. |
| Posted by: PD 2003-7-10 3:23:26 AM |