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Terror Networks
Bush & Blair choke on the fallout from September the 11th
2003-08-23
Al Muhajiroun's website is back up. This is from their latest press release...
So what is the significance of September the 11th two years on from the collapse of those two great idols, known as the Twin Towers, in New York? What has changed in the ensuing two years and, indeed, what does the future hold for the world post-September the 1lth?
I dunno. What?
Certainly as far as the Muslims are concerned the objective of living under the Shari'ah and ridding all Muslim land not only of the occupiers, but also the dictatorial regimes and the secularists, has gained massive momentum. From Indonesia and Malaysia to Yemen and Nigeria the call for the return of the Khilafah system, of ruling solely by the Shari'ah, can be heard. The hatred towards the US and UK, and their evil plans to crush Islam and Muslims, and to force a washed-down version of Islam on Muslims, similar to Christianity, has backfired, and instead, more and more Muslims are queuing up to fight Jihad and are willing to die to see the domination of divine law over man made law. The willingness to die can be seen in the face of those like Imam Samudra, who was recently given the death penalty for his involvement in the Bali bombings, and yet, when the verdict was handed out, he celebrated his upcoming martyrdom (insha'allah) in the way of Allah.
Just a reminder of the opinions of the other side. We had a long discussion yesterday on "dialogue." I just can't see where dialogue with divine-right theocrats takes you. I'd rather see the Brits shut these bastards down and throw them out of the country...
Posted by:Fred Pruitt

#22  Raphael, I wouldn't hesitate to question your experiences. Recent immigrants are more likely to hold these sorts of loser mentalities. It's the second generation who are generally well-adjusted (again, in the UK, in my experience).
Posted by: Bulldog   2003-8-24 5:32:38 PM  

#21  .com, I think our experiences of Muslims are very different. The Westernised Muslims of the younger generation tend, in my experience* and in the UK at least, to be well assimilated into the native culture. They usually take their religious duties about as seriously as I do, which is notionally, and this is not a sham. They drink, sometimes a lot, have relationships with non-Muslims (more often than not), and attend the mosque infrequently and only to keep their parents happy. I have even lived with a Muslim girl (a sunni, sharing a four-student flat on the Edgware Road, London, in the heart of London's arab quarter - but that's a long story), who remains one of my closest friends, so all in all I feel pretty qualified to offer my opinions. These are educated people, the products of an open and free society, not the brainwashed sots who inhabit the Middle East.

Of course here in the UK we have more than our share of problems with local extremists, so I'm not putting my head in the sand. We harbour Abu Hamza and a thousand other Crazed clerics, and have produced Richard Reid, the Tel Aviv boomers, and a million terror-apologists: we do have a problem, but Joe Muslim is a potential ally more often than a lurking threat. There's still little, as far as I can see, to justify trying to force meetings like this underground.

*My experience is biased towards young, well educated Muslims, although not exclusively. Ghetto communities do exist in some cities, of which I have no first hand experience.
Posted by: Bulldog   2003-8-24 5:22:27 PM  

#20  It's the meds. Sorry. Once again:
Most Canadians do not think bad thoughts about America.
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-24 7:00:03 AM  

#19  oops, I meant to say that most Canadians do not think that thoughts about America.
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-23 11:14:51 PM  

#18  Bulldog, I live in Toronto, Canada. My place of work (I won't say where, but it's a non-government job) brings me in contact with a lot of recent immigrants from all over the world. Let's just say I get an interesting insight into the various "America the root of all evil" theories... that are all quite pathological. Interesting to note however, that underneath all this anti-Americanism, however subtle it may be, lies a separate agenda or personal grievance against the US that originates in the past somewhere. For example, if you don't like Jews, you automatically hate America, etc. Secondly, I realize that my particular job puts me into a statistical anomaly, and that most Canadians, and not all immigrants think bad thoughts about America. I should know, I am both of those :)
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-23 9:53:29 PM  

#17  These guys need to fire their marketing director. They keep pushing the "muslim's will rise up" slogan, but it's just not having the impact they had hoped for. Jeesh..give it a rest. Time for a new jingle.
Posted by: Becky   2003-8-23 8:43:37 PM  

#16  Bulldog -
"It's an excellent opportunity for the police and the intelligence services to do some surveillance, and possibly infiltration."
This will happen, no doubt.

"It's also an opportunity for the public at large, 'infidel' and moderate muslim alike, to see the ugly face of extreme Islam, and its true beliefs."
This WON'T happen, no doubt. Will the BBC cover a spittlefest and show it, warts and hate and all to the Great Unwashed UK Public? Not bloody likely, bro. It might end up being a BBC 5-part series on "Why The SpittleFest is America's Fault... and, Besides, It's Not Really a SpittleFest Because Islam is Misunderstood." I wish you were right, but I don't believe so on this point.

As for Muslim friends, I offer an observation. Please take it only as such - no more or less - your mileage may vary, slightly. I know scores of Muslims and, one on one, they seem to be just regular people, especially if converts. No different from anyone else. Then they get together at the Mosque and something rather remarkable happens: they are no longer Brits or black or white or Labor or left-handed or myn or Arsenal Fans or your friends - they are Muslims - first, foremost, and absolutely. Then the Muslim View is given by the Great Turban of Truth. And that, as they say, is that - at least while in the mosque. When's the last time you went to Friday Prayers with your Muslim friends? What they think of the Friday GroupThink and what they do about it depends, of course, upon the individual. But be absolutely assured that, when in the presence of other Muslims, especially if one or more are known to be True Believers (whether extreme or sweet as a pussycat), they will follow the bouncing ball as directed by the Great Turban. It's an amazing - and disconcerting - thing to realize that the guy you work with everyday - shared a joke with 10 minutes before - is now too embarassed to even acknowledge you as he comes out of the Mosque with his fellow Muslims - ashamed of you, in fact. As an infidel, you are merely another cow among the cattle... and he may have just heard about an upcoming BBQ. Just something to keep in mind when tempted to think that we're all just cozy peas in the same pod.
Posted by: .com   2003-8-23 8:27:11 PM  

#15  Just to clarify the above - no Muslims I know deny fellow muslims were responsible for 9/11. I'm sure there are many who do, but none that I know. In fact, my generation of Muslim in the UK are far, far, less interested in religion than their parents. Extreme Islam, it frothing delirium and barbarity, is nudging the majority of moderate Muslims in the direction of secularism.
Posted by: Bulldog   2003-8-23 8:14:28 PM  

#14  Where are you, Raphael? I live in the UK. I have an eclectic circle of friends and associates with a wide spread of opinions. I honestly don't think anyone I can think of will find this sort of thing attractive, and that includes moderate muslims. In fact, all the muslims I personally know and who I've discussed such matters with are upset to find themselves associated with 9/11 and the other attacks. Yes, there's a lot of anti-Americanism around, but throwing light on the greatest nexus of Anti-Americanism, i.e. extreme Islam, will not, IMO make people more anti-American, in fact it will cause them to reassess their allegiances. Let them take enough rope to publicly hang themselves.
Posted by: Bulldog   2003-8-23 7:53:46 PM  

#13  Do you think praising 9/11 will get them sympathy, or alienation?

Do you want an honest answer? I deal with pathological, anti-American hatred every day, and it's not just a couple of people. Even the people who are not outspoken about this, or those that are mildly sympathetic towards America, are not at all outraged at the Sept. 11 attacks. Therein lies the real danger, if you ask me.
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-23 7:45:24 PM  

#12  There's still plenty to be said for free speech. Let's not forget it's not words that kill, but actions. There's plenty to be said for allowing these domestic spittlefests to go on, in view of the public. It's an excellent opportunity for the police and the intelligence services to do some surveillance, and possibly infiltration. Don't forget the British authorities can take incitement to murder seriously, as in the case of Sheikh Abdullah al-Faisal. It's also an opportunity for the public at large, 'infidel' and moderate muslim alike, to see the ugly face of extreme Islam, and its true beliefs. Do you think praising 9/11 will get them sympathy, or alienation?
Posted by: Bulldog   2003-8-23 7:12:03 PM  

#11  the Canadians, and the leftist Brits

...and some Americans. You have as big an obsession with free speech as anyone else does.
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-23 6:09:03 PM  

#10  Frank, I can only hope that the Brits let this "Islamic Conference" happen, then storm it and remove EVERY man attending it from society.
Posted by: True German Ally   2003-8-23 5:48:19 PM  

#9  TGA - the difference is your country's seen where this kinda crap can lead and decided to do something about it...the Canadians, and the leftist Brits have blinders on
Posted by: Frank G   2003-8-23 4:52:31 PM  

#8  Wish I was still living on the Edgware Road, I'd like to mosey on over to one of their stalls, chew the fat, toke on a hookah, throw a coupla buckets of red paint around...
Posted by: Bulldog   2003-8-23 12:44:49 PM  

#7  "like the morons they are"
Posted by: Lucky   2003-8-23 12:28:44 PM  

#6  But... but wasn't 9/11 a Zionist/CIA conspiracy???

Btw in Germany that website wouldn't last a day. Qualifies as "incitement to hatred and genocide".
Posted by: True German Ally   2003-8-23 12:23:35 PM  

#5  ur grandchildren can reassure each other that their world would have found a better, nicer way to deal with the problem, rather than doing the terrible things we're going to have to do.

Hope to Christ not. Speaking as a former leftwinger, I hope and pray my daughter takes the lessons I learned in my life, and strives not to walk the path I did, to learn the lessons I had to learn the hard way the easy way.

I have such a hard time believeing that the average Brit will take this Jihad crap much longer.
Posted by: badanov   2003-8-23 11:01:55 AM  

#4  That's be my preference, too, but I realize that we're too nice nowadays to do such things. Henry VIII or Elizabeth would have lopped their heads off. Cromwell would have taken his time about helping them depart this vale of tears.

Eventually these lunatix will push too far and then our grandchildren can reassure each other that their world would have found a better, nicer way to deal with the problem, rather than doing the terrible things we're going to have to do.
Posted by: Fred   2003-8-23 10:45:25 AM  

#3  I'd rather see the Brits shut these bastards down and throw them out of the country...

Speaking just for myself, I'd like to see the Brits round these bastards up and summarily execute them. 'Course, I am a bit cranky.
Posted by: Mike   2003-8-23 10:21:55 AM  

#2  "on September the 11th 2003, Muslims worldwide will again be watching replays of the collapse of the Twin Towers, praying to Allah (SWT) to grant those magnificent 19, Paradise."

Someone should aquaint this dude with hate laws (or anti-hatred laws). These folks are walking a fine line and one of these days they will slip. I hope someone notices when they do. I hope someone is paying attention.
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-23 7:30:49 AM  

#1  Dying is easy. Living with folks as they are, without trying to force your beliefs on them, that is hard. The sooner these folks die, the better it will be for the living to, well live.
Posted by: Ben   2003-8-23 4:21:20 AM  

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