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Caucasus
Quagmire
2003-08-28
So you want to talk about a quamire, aye? Well, ok then, I’ve got a beauty for you. How about Chechnya?
This is opinion, but I'll leave it up for its hard news content. Chechnya is an area we should cover in more detail...
The Russians aren’t just suffering through little dink and dunk attacks that come sporadically. They don’t have their Muslim Terrorist enemies running away at the mere thought of having to face the toothless mighty Russian army. After four years of fighting, the Russians are facing more frequent and more effective attacks than they have ever faced before. And this so soon after getting bitch slapped out of Afghanistan — where, by the way, we kicked ass.
And we're still kicking it...
We’ll take ourselves a little look-see at how bad things have been for the Russian military over just the past week or so.
(Q) -- Recently the Russian military lost over 100 soldiers in a single attack near the town of Avturi.

(U) -- They’ve been in fire fights with Muslim Terrorists in the regions of Shatoi, Vedeno, Nozhai-Yurt and Urus-Martan.

(A) -- Convoys have been attacked near the village of Harsenoy.

(G) -- Fifteen Russian soldiers were killed in an attack near the village of Samashki.

(M) -- A helicopter, several armored vehicles and several more military trucks have been destroyed or crippled.

(I) -- In just the last week almost 400 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded.

(R) -- The past ten days have been more destructive to the Russians than the past 5 months have been for America and the Coalition in Iraq. Should Russia give in to the Muslim Terrorists in Chechnya? Can America afford to allow a Russian defeat there? Why don’t we hear endless reports from CNN and MSNBC about the Chechen quagmire? About the continued and mounting losses that Russia is facing? About the string of successes the Muslim Terrorists are having against Russian military forces? About Russia’s failure to bring peace to their own soil after 4 bloody years of fighting?

(E) -- If you read the linked article you’ll also see that Chechen civilians are killed at increasing rate, because the war in Chechnya is not just a Russian war, but a civil war.
The Russians aren’t losing one or two soldiers here and there. They’re having a dozen or several dozen killed in each attack. Yet they keep fighting, even though they can little afford to fight economically.

Russia’s fight needs to be our fight. While I still get a joyful feeling when I hear about the Russians getting beaten up like this — after they way they helped Saddam illegally and aided in the liquidation of his NBC stockpiles — I know that America can not afford to allow a Russian loss in Chechnya. If Islamic Terrorists win in Chechnya they will be emboldened throughout the world. They will have a rallying cry, a source of motivation and a boost to their moral. Money and men will flow into their ranks at an increased rate and our own fight against Islam will be that much longer and harder.

So you see, there really is a quamire involved in the War on Terror. It just isn’t in Afghanistan or Iraq.
--
Originally posted on Yankee Jihad

Those are some good points, though I should point out that Chechen Press and the more readable Kavkaz.org routinely carry inflated accounts of the successes of the Chechen bandits mujaheddin. I prefer Gazeta.ru, which has pretty good coverage without being hysterical or forcing one to wade through ITAR/TASS English. Moscow Times is sometimes okay, other times its Caucasus coverage comes from Associated Press, which seem weird to me.

Chechnya's a wedge issue between Russia and the U.S., and it shouldn't be. There's no difference between Chechnya and Afghanistan as far as the enemy's concerned. The same prayers are offered every Friday in Mecca, the "charities" raise money for both, and the al-Ghamdis and their work-alikes turn up in both places. Zarqawi's been there, the Soddies send men and money — the only thing different is that the Bad Guys are fighting the poorly trained and equipped Russian conscripts instead of the 101st or 82nd Airborne. They didn't fare quite so well when they were at Konduz.

The Bad Guys are also doing their best to export jihad to the surrounding areas, none of which want anything to do with it. Dagestan was invaded, Ingushetia's being subverted, and North Ossetia's being casually trampled whenever the Chechen killers please. Basayev's a nasty sonofabitch, regardless of the number of times the Washington Post whines about "human rights abuses" by the Russers. The Nord-Ost Theater episode was enough to settle things once and for all for me — but then, I suppose my attention span's too long. I'd make a lousy journalist or diplomat.

Yeah. I agree. Russia's stuck in a quagmire. The way out of the quagmire involves retaining their legendary ruthlessness, which is called for when dealing with the Chechen banditti, but also reorganizing their military and treating Chechnya as a reconquered territory. There are still lots of nice areas around Khabarovsk that need logged. With hand saws. In winter.
Posted by:Tom Schaller

#4  "Basayev's a nasty sonofabitch, regardless of the number of times the Washington Post whines about "human rights abuses" by the Russers."

The whining about tens of thousands civilians dead in Grozny, you mean?

Perhaps *you* like it when a Christian nations kills tens of thousands of Muslims, because they are vile infidels after all, but I don't see it that way.

I have no reason to believe that the Russians are one shred better than any Islamic terrorist in the region.

Chechenya *should* be a wedge between Russia and the civilised world.

"The Nord-Ost Theater episode was enough to settle things once and for all for me — but then, I suppose my attention span's too long. I'd make a lousy journalist or diplomat."

The Nord-Ost Theater where the Russians killed terrorists and hostages alike without much if any discrimination you mean?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2003-8-29 1:24:39 PM  

#3  Their problem is the Russian military

Very true. The problem is also corruption. Most of the Russian conscripted troops come from provincial town and cities. You won't see many from Moscow and St. Petersburg. Would you have the heart to fight knowing that you were sent there only because your family didn't have the resources to bribe certain officials?
Posted by: Raphael   2003-8-28 11:27:09 PM  

#2  The Russers are serious with them. Their problem is the Russian military. I haven't looked in detail in ten years, not since the Soviets folded, but then it was staff-heavy and initiative-light. Many of the officers are very good, very professional -- but the organizational structure left room for lots of time-servers and hacks, too. The enlisted ranks were just about hopeless, not because of the quality of inductees, but because of the structure.

Former Russian Major used to post here. I'll bet he could tell some fairly hair-raising stories.
Posted by: Fred   2003-8-28 10:54:01 PM  

#1  If Islamic Terrorists win in Chechnya they will be emboldened throughout the world. They will have a rallying cry, a source of motivation and a boost to their moral.

What I don't understand is, why don't the Russians get serious with them? It seems like the Russians should be able to smash them pretty ruthlessly. The Russians don't give a damn about world opinion, and they don't care about civillian casualities when there is a job to be done, (not even their own like when they had to shut down the theather seige in Moscow). So what is going to happen there? Do the Chechens have a chance?
Posted by: g wiz   2003-8-28 10:16:04 PM  

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