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-Short Attention Span Theater-
MY GOD IS YOUR GOD
2004-01-28
John Kearney, New York Times
John Kearney is a student at the Columbia University Graduate School of
Journalism.
And no more a theologian than I am...
Sunday is one of the most important holidays in Islam: Eid al-Adha, the feast celebrating Abraham’s faith and willingness to sacrifice his son to God. It would also be a good occasion for the American news media to dispense with Allah and commit themselves to God.
I'm in favor of a secular press, myself...
Here’s what I mean: Abraham, the ur-monotheist, represents the shared history, and shared God, of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Many Christians and Jews are aware of this common past, but seem to have a tough time internalizing it. Lt. Gen. William Boykin, a deputy under secretary of defense, made headlines last year suggesting that Allah is not "a real God" and that Muslims worship an idol. Last month in Israel, Pat Robertson said that today’s world conflicts concern "whether Hubal, the moon god of Mecca known as Allah, is supreme, or whether the Judeo-Christian Jehovah, God of the Bible, is supreme." Never mind that Hubal was actually a pre-Islamic pagan god that Muhammad rejected. Mr. Robertson’s comments, like those of General Boykin, illuminate a widespread misconception - one that the news media has inadvertently helped to promote. So here’s a suggestion: when journalists write about Muslims, or translate from Arabic, Urdu, Farsi or other languages, they should translate "Allah" as "God," too. A minor point? Perhaps not.
Or perhaps it is. It still doesn't change the mechanics of Islam. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all view God and their relationship with God differently, and within those religions there's a wide variation in the actual relationship among schools of thought. The fact that Allah is or might be the same God (or god) as Elohim — one of the older versions of the Old Testament God and plural to boot — doesn't mean that 3000 years later they're still the same. But I'm no more a theologian than the writer is. I'm still trying to pick my way through the Homoöusian Controversy, so I'll probably never get caught up...
Last August the Washington Post Web site posed this question to readers: "Do you think that Muslims, Christians and Jews all pray to the same God?" One Muslim respondent wrote yes, each of the three major monotheistic faiths "pray to the God of Abraham." Christian respondents, however, were equivocal or hostile to the notion. "Jews pray to Yahweh," one Virginia woman wrote. "As a Christian, I pray to the same God." But she insisted that "Muslims pray to Allah. Allah is not the God of Abraham." This woman might be surprised that Christian Arabs use "Allah" for God, as do Arabic-speaking Jews. In Aramaic, the language of Jesus, God is "Allaha," just a syllable away from Allah...
Jews don't pray to Yahweh. The YW symbol was substituted for the Name of God, which isn't to be uttered. On Jewish websites, for instance, you'll usually see God rendered as G-d, out of the same principle of respect, even though God (or gods) is the class, YH is the specific. Christianity is an outgrowth of Judaism, but with elements from a number of other religions which were thriving at the same time Christianity was born. The duality of God and Satan, Good versus Evil, for instance, takes much from Zoroastrian thought. Some of the ceremonial and lots of the miracle tales come from Mithraism. Christianity is also an outgrowth of only a part of Judaism, rather than the entirety of the religion; its roots seem embedded in the Essenes, who rejected most of what the Pharisees and Sadduccees practiced, or perhaps in a subschool of Essene thought. The Teacher of Righteousness of the Dead Sea Scrolls doesn't seem to have been Christ, and probably not John the Baptist. Modern Judaism is an outgrowth of the dominant schools of Christ's time, whereas the Essenes were pretty much wiped out by Vespasian and Titus. Islam on the third hand, reinvents Judaism, and a rather bookish Judaism at that. Man's relationship with God is entirely different under Islam and still retains the oriental butt-in-the-air, face-to-the-floor ethos that's gradually worn off both Christianity and Judaism. That's because the overlay of the religion is the Arabian culture. That leaves us with a Jewish G-d and a Christian God who're noddingly close acquaintances, and a Muslim Allah who's more a distant cousin.
Posted by:Rowen

#18  Ptah: "Like him, your summary leaves out critical facts and points that make Moses' actions less henious than you paint. The incident is recorded in Numbers 30 and 31: The Lord explicitly ordered the operation, and preserved the strike force to such an extent that no man was lost, prompting the troops to give a thank offering of the spoils."

So your argument is that Moses was ordered by God to be a genocidal murderer who endorsed rape, and that makes it okay?

While Mohammed was ofcourse *not* ordered by Allah (because Allah doesn't exist) and thus Mohammed is a murderer and Moses is not?

Am I understanding you correctly?

Now, from my *own* perspective, in which neither Moses nor Mohammed were inspired by anything other than the voices in their heads, why is Moses one iota less a murderer than Mohammed?

Remember than my post was in response to Swiggles whose first sentence was: "Anyone who thinks the god of the pedophile and murder known as Muhammed is the same God as the Jews and Christians worship, obviously has little grasp on reality."

To which my response was a "Huh-huh. And why was Moses any different than Muhammed in this?"
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-1-28 8:54:22 PM  

#17  Aris-I think the "Jewish God" is trying to keep the "Muslim God" from killing all his people, meanwhile the "Christian God" has the "Muslim God" attacking him too.
The "Hindu God" is pissed at the "Muslim God" as well, due to the "Muslims God's" massacre of his people.The "Buddhist God" got mighty pissed about the statues the "Muslim God" blew up, that's for sure.
The "Muslim God" better watch his back, eh?
The "Atheist God" is really confused, and thinks the "Christian God" is after him, and is therefore really pissed about those roadside crosses.The "Agnostic God" is starting to believe in himself, and is thinking it might be a good idea to start taking sides.
Posted by: TS   2004-1-28 7:39:35 PM  

#16  Christianity is far from being dualistic: The Existence of the Devil is implied in the Old Testament, became a realistic, working thesis in the New, but there is no question that Evil Spirits are weaker than Good Spirits: One of the base promises Jesus gave his followers was that they would be able to cast out demons, and reminded them that the CASTER is necesarily more powerful than the CASTEE.

Difference between Judaism and Christianity: Jesus is the promised Messiah, who makes believers FIRST CLASS Sons and Daughters of God (1 John 3:1-3). Jews regard themselves as God's servants. Different order of things.

Judaism is intrinsically non-imperialist: The extent of the Kingdom of Israel never exceeded the bounds set for it by God: The fertile crescent Between the Nile and the Euphrates, and for much of its history, it was confined to current day Israel and Yesha.

Aris, You must belong to the Michael Moore School of Editorial Documentarism: Like him, your summary leaves out critical facts and points that make Moses' actions less henious than you paint. The incident is recorded in Numbers 30 and 31: The Lord explicitly ordered the operation, and preserved the strike force to such an extent that no man was lost, prompting the troops to give a thank offering of the spoils.

How you get "saved" in each religion differs, AND makes a difference: In judaism, it is obedience to the requirements of the Pentatuch and trust in God's forgiveness. There is no command in the Old Testament to propagate the faith, even though provisions are made for foreigners to join themselves to the Jewish people. Judaism becomes a personal and a national religion, because God prescribes laws that only a nation can enforce.

In the New Testament, Salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. "Faith Alone" means man need not add anything beyond faith, and God does not demand anything beyond faith, for salvation. I challenge anyone to find a command or implication of a command In the New Testament that belief that is forced by physical threat is a saving faith. Indeed, faith and fear are viewed as opposites, so "conversions" via threat of force is not true conversion. Christianity is a personal and an assembly (church) based religion, but not a national one, because guidelines are directed to the church, not national leaders: Men are told that homosexuals are sinners, but are NOT told to kill them as God commanded the Ancient Israelites in the Torah. It was an error for the Catholic church to reach back into the Old Testament for laws to run a nation: They were driven by ambition and the lust for power, rather than a desire to care for the flock of God.

Islam is closer to Judaism, being both a personal and national religion. Salvation is by works, most notably the five pillars. Even then, Allah is capricious, makes no promises, and does not have to keep them. The only sure guarantee of salvation is death during Jihad. The use of Physical force to force conversions and obedience to the Prophet and Allah is counseled, encouraged, and upheld repeatedly throughout the Koran and the Hadiths. "People of the Book" are made to pay a tax which, as we know today, produces incentives to convert in order to avoid it.

Our modern day distain of hypocrites comes from the Christian tradition. There are no denunciations of pride or hypocrisy in the Koran: Indeed, lies and dissemulation to preserve one's life (to fight again another day) and to further the "True Religion" and permissible and automatically forgiven.

*sniffs* dimestore theology for dummies. Like Michael Moore, is able to give some of the facts and still tell a lie...
Posted by: Ptah   2004-1-28 7:24:28 PM  

#15  SH, I just checked, there really is John Kearney at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. He has written a couple of things. One was titled, Experts Debate Best Way to Win "Hearts and Minds" of the Arab Public. So his masters must be in Middle East Studies. I haven't a clue if he actually wrote this piece because I refuse to sign on with the NY Times.
Posted by: Gasse Katze   2004-1-28 6:58:13 PM  

#14  Muslims believe Abraham was going to sacrifice his son, however, they do not believe it was Isaac he was going to sacrifice but instead was Ishmael. Muslims also do not believe Jesus was the son of God. Now if God of the Bible and Allah are the same He either lied in the Bible, in the Qur'an or both. It is so elementary to understand that God of the Bible and Allah are not the same. It takes a journalism student not to grasp the fact. Another award-winning reporter in the making.
Posted by: Constitutional Individualist   2004-1-28 5:38:13 PM  

#13  GK, neither of today's trolls have added annoying comments under multiple pen names. Maybe, Fred's message sunk in. - except the part about not posting moronic opinion pieces.
Posted by: Super Hose   2004-1-28 5:31:45 PM  

#12  Christians and Muslims indeed do not pray to the same god.

Then again, Christians and Jews do not pray to the same god either. There are differences between the concept of the Hebrew and Christian deities that are just as sharp-pointed as the ones between Allah and the Christian deity.

And as a sidenote, going by the bible, I've no reason whatsoever to think that Moses was any less murderous than Mohammed -- q.v. the incident where Moses orders all the men, women and children of the Midianites killed, except for the virgin girls -- the virgin girls of the Midianites would be kept for raping purposes.

Christians and Muslims have the common element that they believe their religion a global one, (to be spread throughout the world) versus the Jews' ethnocentric one...

And Muslims and Jews have the common element that their holy texts seem to have their God espouse utter ruthlessness in warfare as a means of advancing their people's status. Besides the strict monotheism, ofcourse, as contrasted to the Christian trinitarianism.

So, any reason for you people to be thinking that the Jewish God has any more in common with the Christian God than the Muslim God does?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-1-28 5:30:29 PM  

#11  So John Kearney your point is what exactly?
Methinks you have imbibed too often of the mirrored version of EVIAN, N-A-I-V-E.
I know of no Catholic, Protestant, or Jew who believes, as a matter of faith, that anyone who does not believe as he does should convert to his faith or be killed or enslaved. Unfortunately, that cannot be said of all followers of Islam.
Posted by: Gasse Katze   2004-1-28 3:29:43 PM  

#10  Hyper, I will have to use Icy Hot on the mussle pull in my stomach. LMAO.
Posted by: Super Hose   2004-1-28 3:07:56 PM  

#9  oh.my.god.
Is the Times sponsoring a Freshmen in Journalism day? What naive, embarrassing blather. I'm sure John Kearney will have a desk and leatherette chair waiting for him at the Times when he graduates.
Posted by: Seymour Paine   2004-1-28 2:58:49 PM  

#8  The is no god named Allah,
Mohammed was a liar.

LGF Wisdom
Posted by: Shipman   2004-1-28 2:37:49 PM  

#7  In Aramaic, the language of
Jesus, God is "Allaha," just a syllable away from Allah...

And Shi’ite is just a couple of letters away from shit (Hyper is just a couple of letters away from “hipper” but THAT doesn’t pan out either!).

…Allah is not "a real God"…"whether Hubal, the moon god of Mecca known as Allah, is supreme, or whether the Judeo-Christian Jehovah, God of the Bible, is supreme."..."Jews pray to Yahweh" ... "Muslims pray to Allah. Allah is not
the God of Abraham..."

Blah, blah, blah; more “my God is better than your God” religious masturbation. Idiots all around.

It doesn't matter Whose name you call in your prayers, it’s what you DO in Their name that you get splatted jugged judged for in this life...
Posted by: Hyper   2004-1-28 2:28:19 PM  

#6  When they embrace Jews and Christians and the Old and New Testaments with tolerance, then we'll talk.
Posted by: Tom   2004-1-28 2:09:56 PM  

#5  John Kearney is a student at the Columbia University Graduate School of
Journalism

Making him an expert on comparative religions and the history of religions.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2004-1-28 2:08:45 PM  

#4  Anyone who thinks the god of the pedophile and murder known as Muhammed is the same God as the Jews and Christians worship, obviously has little grasp on reality. The author also shows their ignorance by stating that Abraham was a monotheist. He was not. And in actuality worshiped the god, El. Try getting your head out of your ass. Not to mention the messages of the three religions are vastly different. Jews and Christians (at least in modern times) espouse peace and love. Islam, like its pedophile founder who stormed through world leaving a wake of blood behind him, speaks of jihad and conversion or dhimmi-hood. The false prophet Mohammed is currently burning in hell. And one final point, as a Christian, Jesus was not a prophet, he was the Son of God. You ignorant piece of shit.
Posted by: Swiggles   2004-1-28 2:08:28 PM  

#3  I think Allah is actually the name of a pre-biblical moon/fertility god in Babalon. I may have the details wrong but Allah does not equate to Yahweh.
Posted by: Super Hose   2004-1-28 2:06:25 PM  

#2  Doesn't matter what the language is...you see, it is how Muhammed, the murderous pedophile, translated Allah's will, that is the problem.
Posted by: TS   2004-1-28 2:02:32 PM  

#1  muslims purport to have the same ideological roots as Jews and Christians, but in truth Islam more closely follows the Microsoft practice of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish".
Posted by: BH   2004-1-28 2:02:14 PM  

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