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| Denver Synagogue Vandalized (Mel Gibson blamed, RoP not mentioned) |
| 2004-03-07 |
| A Denver synagogue was damaged with graffiti overnight. Swastikas were drawn on the synagogue on south Monaco Parkway. The graffiti was in the doorway and across a sign. There were also several symbols drawn on the back wall of the building. A holocaust survivor who saw the graffiti says it was almost too much to take. There was no official response available from the congregation Saturday, although several people who called 9NEWS to report the damage said that they blamed Mel Gibsonâs movie âThe Passion of the Christâ for rekindling anti-Semitism. Hmmm, Here we have an unsupported allegation of motive from anonymous callers who presumably do not know the perps; and this is regarded as newsworthy? Members of the congregation will gather Sunday morning to start cleaning off the graffiti. Cinema-crazed Christians running amok again. Whatâs next? Catholic-school kids throwing rocks at police and troops? Baptist Car bombs? Buddhist suicide bombers on the Denver metro? Masked United Methodist Youth brandishing AKs? Presbyterian hijackers? Actually this scenario does seem vaguely familiar for some reason, though the SS runes in the picture point solidly to the subjects of an 80s hit by the Tubes, White Punks on Dope. |
| Posted by:Atomic Conspiracy |
| #27 Of course the Jews crucified Jesus Christ. If not for that one act, we(everyone who has lived, or ever will live), would not have access to salvation. Christians are not the perpetrators of this graffiti. Christians know the VALUE of Jesus' death and resurrection. Because it happened....we have hope in tomorrow. I encourage everyone Christian and non-Christian alike, to go see the movie. The word scourge is used when talking about the events leading up to the crucifixion of Christ. And, while you know it's a punishment of sorts......you don't have a reference for your mind to get a grip on the practice with. Now, thanks to Mel Gibson's movie, I have a pretty good idea of what being scourged is all about. |
| Posted by: Danny 2004-3-7 11:41:01 PM |
| #26 We shouldn't expect anti-semites to attend a film where the hero is a Jew. The big question is whether the normal rate for sick crimes like this goes up or down, outside of the normal "noise band". The number of these acts per week fluctuates, and an average fluctuation can be calculated easily. From there, you can tell if an increase is "significant" or "within the margin of the standard deviation", and there are percentages associated with them. For instance, IIRC, a rate two standard deviations away from the norm is 90% assured of being significant, and three is about 95% sure (I.e. you'd be wrong one time out of 20 to assume it's not significant, and right 19 times out of 20 to assume it IS.) The math and the numbers to feed to it are all there. We just need enough data after the opening to make the comparison. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2004-3-7 10:29:58 PM |
| #25 I don't know where Krauthammer got the impression that Satan mainly hangs around Jews. His most memorable appearance, judging from web comment, was the Ugly Baby bit behind the Romans administering the scourging at the pillar. Though he's present on the Via Dolorosa, it's primarily the same soldiers behaving badly, a point made pretty firmly by the main focus character for that sequence, a nice Jewish guy from Cyrene. Apart from a brief detour helping Judas go nuts, he seems mainly to go where Jesus goes, understandably, since he's got something riding on the outcome. What that is exactly is established in his first appearance, the admittedly extra-Biblical temptation-in-the-other-garden, where he's used to make the point that everything that happens proceeds from the need to expiate the crimes of the whole species, ever since that conversation in Eden. Hence the snake. Hence also his slight tendency to make fun of Mary and give her dirty looks. His just showing up to point out which people are icky would have been an easier and far more pointless job the whole way around, and an utter waste of everybody's basic education. Even on a purely literary level, there are entire interwoven structures of symbolism to the movie unmentioned and evidently undetected by a lot of the reviewers. God knows what they majored in. I am pretty sure what any of my professors would have given me for that kind of unabashed nonanalytic gastric reaction. |
| Posted by: ABD 2004-3-7 10:15:10 PM |
| #24 There will be cartoons on the test . . . |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-3-7 8:37:45 PM |
| #23 Well done, cingold. Well argued and well presented. Will there be a quiz later on about this? Should we have taken notes during class? |
| Posted by: badanov 2004-3-7 8:12:30 PM |
| #22 ltcedk: I'm wondering whether you are thinking of the Beth Jacob synagogue Oops! Yes, that's the one, just south of Alameda, about six blocks east of Colorado Boulevard. IIRC, they had a stained-glass window totally destroyed about fifteen years ago in another anti-Semitic incident. Three things have really hurt East Denver/Aurora in the last ten years: the loss of Lowry AFB, the closing of Fitzsimons hospital, and the moving of air traffic from Stapleton to DIA. I hope the area is recovering, but the last time I was up there (three months ago), it was still pretty run-down. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-3-7 7:42:06 PM |
| #21 three months of hype Have you been living under a rock? This story's been around for at least twice that long, probably closer to a year. And if you're going to blame Mel for what idiots do, then you might want to portion some of that blame out to those who made a fuss about it in the first place. and non-Gospel insertions from Mr. Gibson Yeah, how DARE he insert his own beliefs and artistic vision into this! He should have stuck with the original film! |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-3-7 7:35:03 PM |
| #20 (Satan was placed among the Jews, not the Romans)ltcedk, are you nuts or just plain ignorant? Read the Bible while youâre able, and before you make pompous comments about Gibsonâs intentions [editorial note: What, so youâre psychic?]. I think anyone who has seriously read the biblical account of Jesus Christâs death would find the Passion to be right on point as a filmic portrayal of those accounts. The Judeo-Christian Bible reports quite convincingly [editorial note: with better intrinsic and extrinsic proofs than youâll find in most law cases] that Jesus Christ was born a Jew, and was a direct descendent of David through his mother. The New Testament portion of that Bible repeatedly and consistently reports Jesus Christ as identifying with and upholding the honor and sanctity of the Jewish people as a race chosen by the Creator God Almighty to âmake and shake critical points in human historyâ [editorial note: my choice of words] as part of the special relationship of the Jewish people with God Almighty. The Judeo-Christian Bible also quite honestly reports that all people (Jews and non-Jews alike) are creatures worth saving and bringing into a paradisiacal eternity. It also quite honestly reports that all people are subject to falling short from perfection, often with devastating human impact (e.g., Adam and Eve bring sin into the world, David orders a womanâs husband killed so that he can take her, etc.). The New Testament account does not paint Jews as particularly susceptible to sin, rather all people (Jewish and non-Jewish) fall short and hurt others. The New Testament message is not that the Jews killed Christ, but that Christ chose to become a blood sacrifice [editorial note: i.e., he came to earth knowing when, where, and how he would die, and willing and wanting to lay down his life to save his friends] to wash away all the sins that keep people from entering into a paradisiacal eternity. How is this different than the buddy who takes a bullet or jumps on a grenade to save his friends? Do we blame the shortcomings of his friends for not keeping better watch, and say his friends are buddy-killers? Those arguments cheapen heroics, and are unworthy of Christ. If the Passion is soooooooo anti-Semitic, why is it staunchly defended by conservative, devout Jews like Dennis Prager and Micheal Medved? ltcedk, your position reminds me of something C. S. Lewis once wrote, and which I paraphrase, âThe gates of Hell are barred from the inside.â Now (take a deep breath), mind you, Iâm not condemning you or saying youâre lost -- Iâm trying to emphasize an analogous point, donât go into something with such bias and preconception that you canât see the real facts. |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-3-7 6:14:58 PM |
| #19 Gibson is a goof. What's more there to say. Anyone see the interview with Diane Sawyer? I'm so sure the Holy Spirit told him to make $100mil off of Jesus' story. Regarding the antisemitism, anyone who blames the Jews for killing Jesus, I'm sure hasn't touched the Bible in their whole life. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-3-7 5:35:32 PM |
| #18 "Anyway - a lot of protest here - too much?" You really are stupid about evidence aren't you? Now, according to you, simply pointing to a lack of evidence or logic for an allegation somehow justifies that allegation. How much "protest" is too much, and what does it prove? Do you have the guts to spell it out here? You should have lived in the 16th Century, you could have gone to the top in the Inquisition. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-3-7 3:28:24 PM |
| #17 Re "Bigots will always look for excuses" - exactly my point - intentional (I don't believe that for a minute) or not - three months of hype and non-Gospel insertions from Mr. Gibson (Satan was placed among the Jews, not the Romans) - leaves room for abuse of a work intended to inspire. Law of unintended consequences - still hurts nevertheless. Go back and check the Krauthammer analysis again (or for the first time). |
| Posted by: ltcedk 2004-3-7 3:19:55 PM |
| #16 Denver has had a "neo-nazi skinhead" problem for quite a while now. They are everywhere, including Denver - a minor and marginalized fringe subculture, although deeply disturbed and disturbing. But, one of my most favorite memories from the 80s was seeing a march in downtown Denver (KKK/nazi combo, if I remember) just get trashed by a bunch of angry white Coloradoans who were really po'd by the bigotry. The nazi mentality is pretty foreign to the overwhelming majority of Coloradoans who donât suffer from mental illness. Colorado's worldview, really, is a pretty open minded kind of conservatism [editorial note: so open that it let a bunch of Californians come in and take over the state. Oops, another topic]. Colfax Avenue is now a slum from Josephine to Peoria street. Ouch! I work just south of the synagogue at Alameda and Colorado. Please be kind . . . Regarding the Passion, I think Ebert [editorial note: not known to be very conservative] said it best, something like âBigots will always look for excuses. If Christ had been crucified in Fiji, bigots would call the Fijians Christkillers. But his message was that he came to earth to die, it was ordained. It just took place in Palestine, and it was the Romans who killed him.â |
| Posted by: cingold 2004-3-7 2:43:00 PM |
| #15 Anyway - a lot of protest here - too much? Oh, shove it. What you're seeing is a group of people who don't jump on a bandwagon when the press calls them to. Unlike, say, yourself, who has charged, tried, and convicted "The Passion of the Christ" on the basis of a few anonymous phone calls. Now, most people who see swastikas and SS runes think "neo-Nazis", and I think that's the direction the police will be looking, too. Also, this kind of crap took place BEFORE the film was released, so blaming the film seems to be a case of trying to fit the crime to someone you've already convicted. Now, you said: How many occurences would it take to convince YOU that people who hate would use this film? For one thing, it doesn't matter what "people who hate" think. They'll hang their rationalizations on ANYTHING, no matter how blameless or innocent. There are, after all, people who will tell you with a straight face that "My Little Pony" tells them to kill their neighbors. When there IS evidence -- beyond some anonymous phone calls to a TV station -- then come back and ask how much. Until then, stop jumping at shadows. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-3-7 2:18:03 PM |
| #14 You got me - I shouldn't have said East Denver - should have said Crestmoor Park - which cannot be called a slum or run-down - try pricing the homes. I'm wondering whether or not you are thinking of the Beth Jacob synagogue which is close to Colfax. The one on Monaco is TRI - about a mile further down from the Greek Orthodox. Anyway - a lot of protest here - too much? |
| Posted by: ltcedk 2004-3-7 1:53:33 PM |
| #13 Guys, A lurker here, posting as I live in the Denver ... a lot of what you say is true, however; local leaders ARE cleaning up the 'colfax corridor' - but it takes time. From the east, with Stapleton being re-developed. The change is starting to be very apparent and very obvious. From the west with revitilization project, which is just starting. |
| Posted by: Anonymous 2004-3-7 12:32:01 PM |
| #12 Right on, Old Spook. My daughter used to work at the Jewish Community Center close by. It's a beautiful building in a declining area. The skinhead problem (and problems from similar groups) has been there for at least 15 years, if not longer. Colfax Avenue is now a slum from Josephine to Peoria street. I have friends who attend services at that synagogue - this is NOT the first time it's been vandalized in the last 30 years. OS, email me, and I'll send you my telephone number. We can get together at the Village Inn on Academy and Palmer Park for coffee one afternoon. |
| Posted by: Old Patriot 2004-3-7 12:18:09 PM |
| #11 Actually, this same area has had problems with vandals before - so its not really new despite some people's attemps to make it look that way. I think the Greek Orthodox church on the hill next door has had vandalism problems as well. Anyone who gathers all the facts first with an objective viewpoint knows its not the movie. Its the neighborhood - a neighborhood in decline with rougher people spilling down from Colfax and Colorado, now that Univeristy Hospital is moving and leaving a demographic and economic hole in the area. Also look around that area - there is good BBQ place I make a detour to eat at over off Cherry, and see old friends, when I fly to Denver on the way to Co Springs. When I drove thru there a little while back, there is a huge abandoned grocery store, a lot of crappy old run-down strip malls, a tatoo shop, and around the corner a sex shop. And remember a couple years ago they had problems with people setting fire to the stuff in a park a few blocks away. So tell the whole story. And dont forget, there might be an Old Spook with an eye for details to call the truth out - and make you look like a fool. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-3-7 11:15:04 AM |
| #10 Ahuh,yea sure,and FPS video games caused Columbine. |
| Posted by: Raptor 2004-3-7 10:50:42 AM |
| #9 Along that train of thought Itcedk - I suppose Fight Club was what inspired Bin Laden to launch the WOT. |
| Posted by: B 2004-3-7 9:40:19 AM |
| #8 Redneckiaphobia is the new scourge of our age. Snooty, shallow, pseudo-intellectuals: why do they hate us? |
| Posted by: whitecollar redneck 2004-3-7 9:40:04 AM |
| #7 Ever here of "post hoc ergo propter hoc?" Well - the EVIDENCE one needs here would be what? Having the perps go public and say,, yep, it was that movie that energized me to do ......" which isn't likely to occur. So - rest smug in your conviction for now - but keep posted for future events. How many occurences would it take to convince YOU that people who hate would use this film? |
| Posted by: ltcedk 2004-3-7 9:25:21 AM |
| #6 Just coincidence I suppose - nothing like this in East Denver for years - and within days of the movie opening..... just coincidence.....NOT! Ever hear of "post hoc ergo propter hoc"? You might want to, oh, I dunno, FIND SOME EVIDENCE before you blame the movie. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-3-7 8:50:07 AM |
| #5 Have seen the Passion it is not antisemitic ,its very sad and if you see it will make you realise what Jesus has done for all humans. Some rednecks probably blame jews that aer alive today for the cruxifiction but it was the some of the jews alive at the time and the romans who did it.Besides Jesus had to die at the commandment of God his father as he is subordinate to God in all things. |
| Posted by: Antiwar 2004-3-7 8:32:08 AM |
| #4 It still amazes me that some people don't know who the real enemies of the US are today. Their hatred for the Jewish people is so misled that they could look at 9/11 and still hate the Jews despite their help in the war on terrorism. |
| Posted by: dataman1 2004-3-7 7:45:29 AM |
| #3 Two Points: #1 - Read Krauthammer's column in the WPOST 5 March - this should give some context, if one is willing to read AND think about it. #2 - Much if not most concern is not that religious Christians will run amok after seeing the movie - but that the haters now have additional cover to justify their hate. Just coincidence I suppose - nothing like this in East Denver for years - and within days of the movie opening..... just coincidence.....NOT! |
| Posted by: ltcedk 2004-3-7 6:15:20 AM |
| #2 "White Punks On Dope" was an amazing song. I had a button which read "White Dopes On Punk". Described me to a 'T'. On topic, you're probably right. Denver has had a "neo-nazi skinhead" problem for quite a while now. There have even been murders of minority group members by wannabe hard cases. "The Passion" cannot possibly be implicated unless cinema owners are seeing groups of 'boot boys' filing in to showings beside church groups. Pretty unlikely. |
| Posted by: JDB 2004-3-7 4:39:26 AM |
| #1 I'm aware that Buddhists are not Christians, I was just getting into the multicultural spirit of the thing. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-3-7 4:11:28 AM |