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| Iraq-Jordan |
| Iraqi clerics say coalition ’must pay’ for crisis |
| 2004-04-13 |
| ...In a statement issued Monday after a meeting with radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, the clerics and members of the country’s religious authority also cautioned the coalition against doing battle in the holy city of Najaf -- and warned against any attempt to kill al-Sadr. "The current crisis in Iraq has risen to a level that is beyond any political groups, including the Governing Council, and it is now an issue that is between the religious authority and the coalition forces," the statement said. "Those who have brought on this crisis must pay for what they have done." I agree. So what should be done about Sadr? Arrest him? Or kill him? Participating in the meeting was the son of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the recognized leader of the country’s majority Shia Muslims; Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Ishaq al-Fayadh, Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Sayid al-Hakim, Grand Ayatollah Bashir Hussein al-Najafi, Mohammed Sayid Redha al-Sistani and Sayid Ali al-Sibzwari. Al-Sistani is known to keep Sadr at arm’s length, but the concerns voiced by the clerics Monday reflected a deeper desire to avoid the kind of conflict in Najaf that was recently seen in Fallujah, where several U.S. troops and many more Iraqis died in recent fighting. Yeah I bet. It ain’t fun getting the crap kicked out of you. |
| Posted by:Rafael |
#20 Iraqi clerics say coalition ’must pay’ for crisisHokey-dokey. Here's a penny. Keep the change. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-04-13 11:18:48 PM |
| #19 I thought Congress signed the supplemental budget. He can't want too much more than we're already paying at the pump. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-04-13 10:55:08 PM |
| #18 Good post, ScandalousAffairs. Thanks for the info. |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2004-04-13 10:49:49 PM |
| #17 I have to point out that when the war started last March, the Shiites were friendly to us. Why have they started to fight all the sudden? Or is it sudden? Recall after World War One when the Brits controlled Iraq, Shiites started to fight the British forces. Then the Sunnis started to fight the British forces. Then they started to fight together against the British forces. Then the British decided that after a good five or six years to give Iraq independence by brining in an outsider to rule Iraq. It didn't take too long for the Shiites and Sunnis to start fighting amongst each other, and it didn't take long for the British-imposed monarchy to be deposed by some government. Did you realize that until Saddam Hussein took power in the 70s that Iraq never had a stable government? Remember that Saddam supressed the Shiites? Remember how when we came in and got rid of the Hussein regime how greatful the Shiites were? Well, it's been a year. What are the Shiites doing? Starting to arm up against coalition forces. Gee...I'm sensing a pattern here...I guess we must have forgotten some history over the last 100 years. |
| Posted by: ScandalousAffairs 2004-04-13 8:07:25 PM |
| #16 "What is it with these people in the middle east? do they ever take responsibility for what they allow to happen?" - Kbr You have bottom-lined the root cause of nearly every problem with the middle east with that one question. |
| Posted by: ruprecht 2004-04-13 3:09:53 PM |
| #15 RWV #14 - I agree. We've used the time to almost double the number of Marines around Fallujah, clear Mahdi Army control of major roads, and cordon Najaf. Really effective action takes place at a time and in a manner of our own choosing |
| Posted by: rkb 2004-04-13 2:38:06 PM |
| #14 The "negotiations" are essentially a kabuki dance that will end when the Shiite holy days end and the Marines and other forces can get back to rat killing without fear of killing pilgrims (Iranians who come for the festivals and leave are pilgrims, those that come and stay will just be dead). I have no fear of either the command authority or the CPA going wobbly. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-04-13 2:28:43 PM |
| #13 Clint eastwood said it best (as Dirty Harry) Although it isn't exact, it sure is parallel. I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Of course a 50 mm shell from a Blackhawk would have a comenserate effect as a "44". Maybe even more profound. What is it, Negotiations? |
| Posted by: Anonymous4052 2004-04-13 1:45:46 PM |
| #12 I kinda favor the negotiation tactics displayed bt Bruce Willis in "The Fifth Element"... BANG! "Anybody else wanna negotiate?" |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-04-13 1:07:20 PM |
| #11 #1 kbr: "What is it with these people in the middle east? do they ever take responsibility for what they allow to happen?" NO. "or is everything bad easily blamed on the US?" YES. The problem with listening to the insurgents and "negotiating" with them, is that it is interpreted by them as proof of weakness--and proof to the rest of the world that we have self-doubt. (Heck--maybe we're wrong, and we know it, right? We are reconsidering, after all. Ding-ding!) If Bush doesn't stop it, he will be playing into the hands of the "evil doers" --and I'm not just talking about the terrorists. Hope this isn't his version of "no new taxes," or much will be lost. I think most people in the West simply do not realize that the "bitch and moan" we see in the Middle East is part of their culture--they do it all the time, regardless of what's going on--peace, war--it doesn't matter. Emotions, not reason and logic, rule the day in that culture. They just love it that we stop and listen, because it makes them feel more worthwhile. (Has anybody sat ever down to talk with a bunch of Middle Easterners? They all talk at once, and the one who can talk the loudest is "the best." For Middle Easterners, if you STOP to listen, you have just admitted that you're wrong and that they're better, that they're right. ) As I've said before--ethnocentrism could be our downfall in this war. We should not listen, not stop, not negotiate. They will jabber-jabber-jabber (as they always do), but we will have achieve our ends. #8 docob said it: "the only credibility that matters -- the belief that the US will use adequate and appropriate force when neccessary, and continue until the job is finished" |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2004-04-13 12:43:58 PM |
| #10 Religious Clerics: "Those who have brought on this crisis must pay for what they have done." General Sanchez: "We agree! And with that in mind, we are expanding Sadr hunting season to all Anti-Coalition Jihadis(tm). No size limit! No bag limit!" |
| Posted by: Sean 2004-04-13 11:16:29 AM |
| #9 necessary, that is ... |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-13 10:39:11 AM |
| #8 lyot - I was speaking of the only credibility that matters -- the belief that the US will use adequate and appropriate force when neccessary, and continue until the job is finished. |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-13 10:37:38 AM |
| #7 ... the clerics and members of the country’s religious authority also cautioned the coalition against doing battle in the holy city of Najaf -- and warned against any attempt to kill al-Sadr. Oh, and as to this banana oil; So long as these radicals continue to mobilize in or fight from mosques, there should not be a single target kept off of the hit list. These vermin attempt to cloak their military activity in religious garb and then have the audacity to whinge about the sanctity of their Holy sites. If they want those places kept in one piece, they'd better rally their materiel and troops elsewhere. Otherwise, such locations should be treated like any other military headquarters or barracks. Taking hostages and mutilating casulties is a strong indicator of no quarter being given to coalition forces. To turn around and demand that respect be shown for their own morally corrupt organizations is the height of arrogance. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-04-13 10:30:30 AM |
| #6 "Those who have brought on this crisis must pay for what they have done." What is this horseradish? The only reason there's a "crisis" is because of naked power grabs by religious sects seeking to impose political and theological control in advance of any constitutional legislature. The Iraqi religious heads have everything to answer for in this. As is so common in the Middle East, whatever religious leadership there is has remained far too quiet while their more belligerent subsets go about creating mayhem. Where are the fatwas against Sadr for his attempted derailing of Iraq's peace plans? Now that the religious festivities are over, there should be a concerted effort to neutralize all Iraqi resistance and apprehend or kill Sadr. This ongoing "truce" or cease fire is a major black eye regarding any reputation for effectiveness that our military might possess. Giving these violent thugs any breathing room is a huge mistake. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-04-13 10:18:23 AM |
| #5 The difference in mental capabilities between the terrorists, their supporters, and NMM, is not spacious. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2004-04-13 9:00:53 AM |
| #4 ...And in related news, chicken little says, "Look, I saw it falling. So I'm telling you, make with the flailing, already!"... |
| Posted by: Hyper 2004-04-13 8:45:51 AM |
| #3 what credibility ? There's not that much credibility the US has garnered.. |
| Posted by: lyot 2004-04-13 8:24:56 AM |
| #2 I agree, kbr. Bush all but had my vote wrapped up, but the longer this "negotiate with the terrorists" crap goes on, the more disastrously whatever credibility we have garnered is squandered. It's MUCH more dangerous to start the job and then falter. I'm holding out hope that this is just a strategic pause to appear reasonable and to gather resources for the next advance, but this appears less likely by the hour to be the case. |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-13 8:20:33 AM |
| #1 I know CNN titled their story that way, but the body of the message says "those who have brought on this crisis......" Surely they mean the radicals and Sadr. If tghey truely believe America is at fault for Fallujah and Al-sadr's crap they have lost their minds. Bush is now walking on very thin ice with me. If allows this to go on, they will be blaming us for everyone of our soldiers deaths. What is it with these people in the middle east? do they ever take responsibility for what they allow to happen, or is everything bad easily blamed on the US? Bush had better set them straight or I will be voting against him. It is safer to have a POTUS that is clearly an appeasing wimp, and who nuances his position accordingly, rather then a President who talks tough and but is all hat and no cattle. |
| Posted by: kbr 2004-04-13 7:45:33 AM |