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| China-Japan-Koreas |
| Liberals in S. Korea Win Big - people ticked at Rohâs impeachment |
| 2004-04-16 |
| EFL - from Washington Post In their sharpest shift to the political left in four decades, South Korean voters on Thursday appeared to hand an overwhelming victory in legislative elections to the Uri Party, whose leadership advocates rapprochement with North Korea and greater independence from Seoulâs traditional ally, the United States.... Todayâs elections were largely seen as a referendum on the surprise impeachment of Roh last month -- an act applauded by South Koreans who still harbor memories of the Korean War, but seen by younger voters, who make up almost half the electorate... [Iâve read that these people have been spoon fed anti American propaganda in their high school and college text books] as a political coup against Rohâs more liberal approach on North Korea, the U.S.- South Korean alliance and economic policy. [perhaps approving a dictator while he starves and tortures millions of people qualifies a person as a liberal these days] |
| Posted by:mhw |
| #27 I spent a lot of time in South Korea a little over a year ago. I will agree with much of what Cyber Sarge says. Liberals in South Korea are totally different than those here. HOWEVER, most people under 30 (i.e. before they get into the military) are pretty clueless about what goes on and usually go for these âunite with the Northâ slogans. Sadly, they have become more arrogant and influential too. That is how Roh came into power. Cyber Sarge: Not sure when you were in Korea last, but the last couple of years, the country has shifted starkly to the left and become a LOT more anti-American. And yes, while many people there do have their heads on screwed right, the younger generation does not and they are the ones who are starting to call the shots now. But thankfully, they are all subject to the Korean military to straighten them out and send them back to reality. |
| Posted by: Saideira 2004-04-16 8:51:58 PM |
| #26 Yes #24, I mean coward canucks fleeing to canadianistan also. |
| Posted by: Halfass Pete 2004-04-16 5:21:19 PM |
| #25 Word to the Wise... don't go dinking with the AOS and if you don't know what the AOS is then perhaps a closer reading of RB may be in order. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-04-16 4:05:24 PM |
| #24 to #5, don't you mean any coward fleeing TO Canada? |
| Posted by: Edward Yee 2004-04-16 2:22:08 PM |
| #23 mhw, no doubt SK has their LLL just like we do but they are minute to the whole populations. There was a big push by the youth (College Students/Learned Elite) ?five? years ago to unite peacefully with the North. They even had a âpeaceâ march to the truce village where they met with NK youths for a conference. The SK youths came away from that conference knowing that the LAST thing they wanted was to be reunited with NK under âDear Leader.â Kind of like all those union lefties that moved to Russia in the 1940s and 1950s to help build a âWorkers Paradise.â After a couple years in the Bread/Coffee/Shoe/Flour lines the USA was looking mighty good. Yes the text books can change but you canât change the reality of that is NK. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-04-16 1:29:01 PM |
| #22 cyber sarge - thanks for your comments I'm wondering whether things have changed since the late 80s. I've seen images of demostrations in SK recently. In some large ones there are signs in English with ANSWER, DemoUnderground, AlJaz type slogans. It could be that these people simply chose socialist insanity but it could also be that the textbooks, etc. changed since 89. |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-04-16 1:11:28 PM |
| #21 #17 steve white, fuck you. Embarassing to whom? You? So what? |
| Posted by: Halfass Pete 2004-04-16 1:11:09 PM |
| #20 The Marmot's Hole http://marmot.blogs.com/korea/ has a good discussion of the Korean election results. Gist is that election turned on local issues and that feelings about US were only one of many issues. Money quote: Everything isn't always about America. The SKors are no worse than our democrats. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-04-16 12:36:56 PM |
| #19 When saying we should withdraw from SK "as quickly as possible" I guess I should have specified "without breaking any treaties in the process" but I figured that was a given. As to the superior accessibilty of the German bases, might that not change as the economic situation of Eastern Europe improves? An improvement that may be hastened by our moving bases there ... |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-16 12:31:08 PM |
| #18 Thanks Cyber Sarge. I did not realize that SKOR 'liberals' are not the same as the USA 'liberals'. This just shows how much the american 'liberals' have changed (for the worse). And they do have mandatory military service in that country. I stand corrected :^). |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-04-16 12:11:29 PM |
| #17 Docob, problem with East Europe is that it's tougher for us to get our people to for subsequent redeployment. Bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Poland are inconvenient. Whatever our feelings about Germany, the bases there are superb and the access from the U.S. is quick. I don't see us abandoning them completely, they're just too good. AP makes a good point: we talk alot about "get our boys out of Korea" but we do have obligations there, and we don't want to send the wrong signal to Kimmie. That, after all, was how the Korean War started (we inadvertently signaled the Russians that Korea was outside our "sphere of influence"). I think the redeployment outside the DMZ area is good, and I keep thinking that bringing the infantry levels down to a brigade or so, with some AF units to help with air support, etc., is the way to go. Half-ass Pete: knock it off, it's embarrassing. |
| Posted by: Steve White 2004-04-16 12:04:16 PM |
| #16 I studied Korean culture, was stationed in Korea 88-89, and you read way too much into this âLiberalâ label. Liberal in SK doesnât equate to liberal here in the U.S. They are not for drawing down the Army or pounding their swords into plowshares. They (the Liberal party) know that the Korean War was started by NK and resulted in the almost total destruction of SK. They are also not about to âredistributeâ the wealth, giving handouts to the able bodied, or going environmental wacko on the conglomerates. FYI: The industrialists are far more powerful in SK than they are in the U.S. I venture to say that it would be a cold day in hell before you see the CEO of Daiwoo or Samsung do a perp walk. They might want to deal more with NK on a one-to-one basis but they donât trust them anymore than the Conservative party. The young in SK arenât as disillusioned as most American youths and all of them have served in the military so they have a ?dose? of patriotism âspoon fedâ into them. They also teach them how it was the U.S. (mostly) that saved their country when the north invaded (yes it is still in their text books). |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge (VRWC CA Chapter) 2004-04-16 12:03:01 PM |
| #15 I agree that redepolying our troops in Korea would be a good thing. However, what are our obligations to Korea with respect to any treaties with SKor? There are actions and consequences, naturally, but we just do not move 37,000 troops around every time we get a wild hair up our ass. Other nations may do this, but we need to think this through carefully, then act. |
| Posted by: Alaska Paul 2004-04-16 11:53:25 AM |
| #14 I agree about being close to the hot spots, Zhang Fei. That's why I specified "Old" Europe. Eastern European bases would aruably be even closer than Germany, and after the UN fiasco in the runup to the war I have to question how many common values remain. |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-16 11:46:29 AM |
| #13 I say, leave the SKORS to their just rewards! It won't be long and they will be eating tree bark and grass clippings just like their NORK cousins. And when they whine to us, we can say tough tittie! The world needs a serious object lesson, and I can't think of a better one than SKOR. JMNSHO! -AR |
| Posted by: Analog Roam 2004-04-16 11:38:07 AM |
| #12 Dave D.: Let's get 'em out of Europe, too. We need them elsewhere. Our boys can deploy a lot faster from Europe than they can from here. Our security problems aren't in the Western hemisphere - they're from places like the Middle East and East Asia. Even Europe is a lot closer to East Asia than the US is - note that Germany is only 7 time zones away from the Far East, whereas the US is 12 time zones away. There's no good alternative to having troops in Europe, where at least the locals have some values in common with us. With East Asia, it's really hard to tell how much of their cooperation is based on common values and how much is purely fear of their neighbors. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-04-16 11:37:07 AM |
| #11 Now, back on subject, I can only hope that we continue withdrawing from South Korea as fast as we possibly can without unduly damaging our force profile in the area. As for Old Europe, I'd like to see us out of there yesterday. |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-16 11:34:57 AM |
| #10 This is a forum for serious debate and analysis. If it's a hatefest yer looking for, I'm sure there are plenty you can find elsewhere. |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-16 11:31:29 AM |
| #9 Name calling like "wetback mexican" and "coward canuck", you mean? |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-16 11:29:07 AM |
| #8 im a heard it sed somewere that name call is bad debate |
| Posted by: HalfEmpty 2004-04-16 11:27:16 AM |
| #7 Never thought I'd say this, but I agree with mucky. |
| Posted by: docob 2004-04-16 11:26:56 AM |
| #6 im starting think halfass pete one of boris buddys. |
| Posted by: muck4doo 2004-04-16 11:13:49 AM |
| #5 Yup....It's time to let the South Koreans stand on their own two feet. Bring our troops home and station them along our borders with mexicanistan and canadianistan, with orders to shoot to kill any wetback mexican or coward canuck caught entering the U.S. |
| Posted by: Halfass Pete 2004-04-16 11:03:16 AM |
| #4 Good. Now we can move our troops from South Korea to Iran or Syria.... Iâve read that these people have been spoon fed anti American propaganda in their high school and college text books Sure you weren't reading about an american public school? |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-04-16 10:32:19 AM |
| #3 Let's get 'em out of Europe, too. We need them elsewhere. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-04-16 10:27:36 AM |
| #2 US out of South Korea now! Bring our troops home! My brother (USAF) was stationed there for a year about a year ago. He says it's a great place to get illegal knock-offs of merchandise, but other than that it's a smelly shit-hole. Action meet Consequence! |
| Posted by: AllahHateMe 2004-04-16 10:24:16 AM |
| #1 Well, what they are saying is that they are all growed up now. They don't need Uncle Sam to look after them anymore, and they are prepared to up their defence budget, by increasing their taxation by 2% of their GDP, to make up for the difference, when Uncle Sam pulls out. Do they know this yet? The answer is no. But there is nothing like letting teenagers grow up and learn the reality of the real world. |
| Posted by: tipper 2004-04-16 9:51:57 AM |