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| Honduras Follows Spain, Pulls Out of Iraq | |||||
| 2004-04-20 | |||||
Spanish troops will leave Iraq in less than six weeks, Defense Minister Jose Bono said Monday in Madrid, but it remains unclear who will take their place. The 9,500 peacekeepers under Polish command are charged with the south-central sector, where followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr are waging a bloody rebellion. Polish officials said they thought greater United Nations involvement might help wavering countries make new troop commitments or at least follow through with what they have already promised. "A U.N. resolution would be a great help," Polish Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski told Poland's TVN24.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the top U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, sought to allay fears about the implications of the Spanish pullout, saying there would be no "security vacuum in that area at any time." "Numerically those are numbers (the Spanish contingent) that should be able to be replaced in fairly short order," Kimmitt said. President Bush scolded Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero for the abrupt withdrawal, telling him in a telephone conversation Monday to avoid actions that give "false comfort to terrorists or enemies of freedom in Iraq." "The president urged that the Spanish withdrawal take place in a coordinated manner that does not put at risk other coalition forces in Iraq," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.
Honduras' 370 troops have been serving in Najaf under Spanish command, a situation that was thrown into doubt when Spain announced its pullout plan. The Honduran president's withdrawal announcement came hours after military spokesman, Col. Rafael Moreno said that his country's forces would remain in Iraq under Polish command. But Maduro said in a national television address that "I have told the coalition countries that the troops are going to return from Iraq." The president said the soldiers would return home "in the shortest possible time and under safe conditions for our troops."
Aside from the U.S. and multinational forces, some 12,000 British troops and 2,700 Italians operate in the far south. Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi said that with Spain's withdrawal "we can take advantage of the fact that we are now considered the closest ally in continental Europe to the United States, which is the only world superpower," the ANSA news agency reported. Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said he spoke with Spain's ambassador to express his disappointment and worried that if other countries followed Madrid's example, "then Iraq would be left without security and Iraq would become a haven for terrorists." Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Durao Barroso, whose country has 128 police officers in Nasiriyah, said his government's position "won't change ... despite any difficulties which may arise," said Ukraine, the second-largest contributor of troops to the international sector with 1,650, also said its plans were not affected. Slovakia's president-to-be Ivan Gasparovic, who once opposed deployment of his country's soldiers to Iraq, told The Associated Press the threat of worldwide terrorism now justified their presence. Slovakia has 105 soldiers in Iraq, most of them working in de-mining, and has said it remains committed to staying in Iraq. "Would it be better to withdraw from Iraq and leave free hands to terrorism and leave defeated or prevail and do everything possible to stop terrorism from spreading?" Gasparovic asked.
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| Posted by:Steve White |
| #35 #10 Murat you are right. I can only pray that Australia leaves the coalition of the killing. |
| Posted by: Antiwar 2004-04-20 8:47:44 AM |
| #34 Realistically, I would prefer that all the sunshine soldiers get lost immediately. Confronting evil is not for everybody. It is much better if there is no one in the war zone that is there for "political cover." I can not immagine the martial code that Thailand is trying to instill in its forces by announcing that they need only be attacked to insure their immediate withdrawal. That type of political stance is corrosive to the morale and espirit-de-corps of their troops. The Honduran, Thai and Spanish soldiers deserve better than their political leadership. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-04-20 8:55:06 PM |
| #33 look at buying a Volkswagen. Most Volkswagens are made in Mexico. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-04-20 7:05:53 PM |
| #32 "I can only pray that Australia leaves the coalition of the killing." Anti Australia's doing the right thing for the right reasons. The "coalition of the killing" can refer only to Islamo pseudo-men and their sickening idolatry. They worship violence and terror. So, who was that you said you were going to be "praying" to? |
| Posted by: ex-lib 2004-04-20 5:19:23 PM |
| #31 Man Murat and Anitwar in the same thread..... actually from force structure point of view these withdrawls are comparable to mice nuts! Unfortunetly Spain will be paying dearly for thier transgressions...they still face the wrath of the jihadis without the support of the American govt. Bush has a very long memory! From the jihadis point it is not about iraq but about reclaiming territory they consider muslim and spain is smack in the middle of this! As for kerry wanting more involvement of the un and other countries this will not be possible in any large numbers. To make a difference there would need to tens of thousands of troops. Combinded france, germany, italy and spain barely have tens of thousands of troops in thier militaries let alone enough forces to send even if they wanted to. It is all politics and nothing more. Historically the US has always been 90% of the forces deployed in a conflict fought with our allies (including the Brits). Even in the former Yugo, right in euros backyard, the afore mentioned countries could not mount effective operations. How could we expect anything different in iraq? |
| Posted by: Dan 2004-04-20 12:11:51 PM |
| #30 Murat you are right. I can only pray that Australia leaves the coalition of the killing. Haahahahaha, if only the terrorists/Islamozoids had the same tender mercies. They wouldn't hesitate to stick a knife in your back the moment you turned away. |
| Posted by: Bomb-a-rama 2004-04-20 11:44:04 AM |
| #29 Hijo de puta... |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-04-20 11:05:27 AM |
| #28 maybe puto work to. |
| Posted by: muck4doo 2004-04-20 10:54:06 AM |
| #27 a more appropriate term for Zappy is Pendejo |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-04-20 10:47:10 AM |
| #26 This is the thanks we get from Houndouras for allowing in their illegal immigrants and allowing them to send money back home to prop us that 3rd world shithole. Same for Mexico which never even sent troops or help to Iraq and undermined us in the UN on Iraq votes. |
| Posted by: Anonymous4353 2004-04-20 10:40:54 AM |
| #25 Sorry to dissapoint Murat, there is no sign here of anyone wanting to withdraw our troops from Iraq. |
| Posted by: Evert Visser in NL 2004-04-20 10:36:32 AM |
| #24 The Zapatero war cry: ¡Buck-buck-braaawk! |
| Posted by: Mike 2004-04-20 10:28:16 AM |
| #23 RWV: Who will answer his calls for help when the gathering storm breaks? France? Germany? Russia? I think that it will be a case of "you're on your own now, Bozo." That's a good thought, but there's no way we are going to cede Spain to Islam. We could do the Fortress America thing and withdraw from foreign entanglements, but the fact is that while we're engaged, there is no way we can allow the Spanish peninsula to turn green (as in the color of Islam). |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-04-20 10:27:10 AM |
| #22 Zapetero may be nationalistic, but he's on the road to changing the name from Espana to Andalusia. Funny, but I don't think that his socialists will do well in the new Eurocaliphate. Who will answer his calls for help when the gathering storm breaks? France? Germany? Russia? I think that it will be a case of "you're on your own now, Bozo." |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-04-20 10:13:55 AM |
| #21 Murat: I would not lable him coward, but nationalistic. He is following the wish of the Spanish people, I guess after Spain and Honduras more will follow, I bet on the Dutch and Japanese. I agree with Murat on this one. Zapatero's no coward. He's an enemy. Period. Should we apply the full force of American diplomatic and economic power to Spain? No - it wasn't very different in Vietnam either - and this was at the height of the Cold War. No European country sent troops to Vietnam. Our primary allies there were South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, the Philippines and various tiny detachments from the Asia Pacific region. All told, allied deployments amounted to less than 5% of the total international troop presence in Vietnam, or about 20,000 men at the most. In Iraq, roughly 15% of the troops deployed are non-US troops, and amount to almost 20,000 men. In neither instance have international troops made any decisive difference. And that's the nature of such alliances in limited wars - they are a means of showing solidarity rather than providing the margin of victory. Should we boycott Spanish products? That's just silly - the Indonesians, the Chinese, the Indians, the Pakistanis, et al all opposed the US effort in Iraq and never sent troops at all. We should thank the Spanish for having had the fortitude to send troops in the first place. For this gesture, they have proven their solidarity with the US in ways that few other countries have done. If a boycott is in order, it is of Chinese, Turkish, Russian, French and German goods, not of Spanish goods. Think of that the next time you buy something from Walmart or look at buying a Volkswagen. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-04-20 10:08:34 AM |
| #20 Bulldog Murat hasn't confounded nationalist and populist. His idol is Mustapha Kemal and he knows well that Kemal fought for Turks being proud of being Turks instead of kowtowing to the Arabs (eg he finished the braindamage of writing Turkish a vowel-rich language using Arabic scripting who hasn't vowels). Zapatero's idea is to abdicate national identity in the EU and to revert Aznar's policy of no longer accepting to be treated as a minor partner by Germany and France. And he wants approval of the UN! Did you know how much a real nationalist like De Gaulle despised the UN? Murat is mixing nationalism and systematic anti-americanism who are very different things (the very anti-American De Gaulle was the first to close ranks with America during the Cuban missile crisis) |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-04-20 10:03:53 AM |
| #19 heh, heh...looks like Zappy got left standing alone there. It's not like the 370 troops from Honduras were all that big a deal - no offense to the soldiers themselves, mind you. Zappy's going to learn the hard way, like Chirac, that making nice with Islamists is like making nice with the mafia. Once you are in, there is no way out. The people of Spain, wonderful people, are sadly going to reap what he sows. I'd say they have only themselves to blame, but almost half of them didn't vote for him. |
| Posted by: B 2004-04-20 9:35:48 AM |
| #18 antigum sounding familyer. panoche is corect. |
| Posted by: muck4doo 2004-04-20 9:28:36 AM |
| #17 WhatEver |
| Posted by: AntiGum 2004-04-20 9:21:29 AM |
| #16 Tibor: In Spanish, the word for "pussy" (meaning a coward, not a body part) is conejo (rabbit). |
| Posted by: 11A5S 2004-04-20 9:04:36 AM |
| #15 Well, yes, Phil. You see, Andalucia is occupied by the superpower Spain. That's why they defiled that poor man's corpse. Either that, or Murat never bothered to read your link and was once more speaking out his ass. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-04-20 9:00:42 AM |
| #14 Murat, the corpse mutilation in question happened in Spain against the body of a policeman killed in a bomb explosion set off by Islamic militants. |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering 2004-04-20 8:54:14 AM |
| #13 Forgot to ask,what kind of aid does Honduras recieve from the U.S.? I would imagine it would be a pretty substaintial stick. |
| Posted by: raptor 2004-04-20 8:47:57 AM |
| #12 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted] |
| Posted by: Antiwar TROLL 2004-04-20 8:47:44 AM |
| #11 JFM&Tibor,the Mexican variant is ponocha(single not plural). |
| Posted by: raptor 2004-04-20 8:39:01 AM |
| #10 Desperate of being so defenceless and powerless against a superpower that occupies ones land, I guess they vent their anger on corpses. I am not a psych to place the cause but I think I am pretty close. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-04-20 8:32:25 AM |
| #9 Murat, thanks for the answer. But I'm not sure what you mean by "desperate". What sort of "desperation" can be blamed upon a fifteen-day-old entombed corpse? That said, I agree with the term "deranged", completely. JFM & Murat: I think Murat's confusing nationalistic and populistic. The nationalist acts in what he believes to be the best interests of his nation. The populist panders to the prevailing majority opinion, whether or not it's in the long-or-short-term best interests of the country. Zapatero is a populist, not a nationalist. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 7:31:24 AM |
| #8 Murat Pleeaaaaaaaaaase. If Zapatero were nationalistic he would not be having Spain opening legs for Chirak and Schroeder. |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-04-20 7:13:48 AM |
| #7 I would call them deranged and desperate Bulldog, blinded by full hatred. And Jen, yes I was betting wrong, Thailand looks to be going first, the Dutch probably will second them. Since the Shia have achieved a kind of succes (pullout of Spain and Honduras) it will be logic that attacks on the smaller coalition troops will intensify, the Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra announced he will pull back his troops ass soon as there fall wounded. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-04-20 7:05:03 AM |
| #6 Murat, out of curiosity, what would you label the kind of people who do this to a corpse: "The coffin and body [...] were pulled from the tomb [...] and pushed 1,000 yards in a wheelbarrow before being doused with petrol and set alight. The body was found with a pick driven into its head and a spade dug into its chest." ? I'm not trying to bait you, I'm just curious. |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-04-20 6:21:31 AM |
| #5 Sorry, wrong again, Murat! The Japanese have said they will stay and the Dutch are staying at least until June 30, then it will be up to the Dutch people and Parliament to decide if they'll stay longer. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-20 4:59:56 AM |
| #4 Zappie is a coward I would not lable him coward, but nationalistic. He is following the wish of the Spanish people, I guess after Spain and Honduras more will follow, I bet on the Dutch and Japanese. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-04-20 3:43:13 AM |
| #3 Tibor The answer to your question is "rajados". "Gata" (female cat) has no sexual connotation in spanish. |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-04-20 2:07:19 AM |
| #2 How do you say "pussies" in Spanish? I assume that it's not "los gatos." |
| Posted by: Tibor 2004-04-20 12:49:19 AM |
| #1 Its to be expected. The South/Central American countries are supported logistically and organizationally by the Spanish Army - they have no capability to sustain troops in the field outside their country without the support they got from the Spanish. Zappie is a coward, and a socialist first and foremost, and wants to stab Capitalism and the US in the back any way he can. His actions have spoken quite well for him. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-04-20 12:17:28 AM |