| Submit your comments on this article |
| Iraq-Jordan |
| 7 U.S. soldiers killed in fighting in Sadr city district of Baghdad |
| 2004-04-04 |
| Seven U.S. soldiers were killed in clashes with supporters of a leading Shiite cleric in a Baghdad neighborhood Sunday, military officials told CNN. The killings in the Shiite majority Sadr City came on a day that saw deadly clashes between protesters and coalition forces in the holy city of Najaf, fighting in Baghdad and a car bombing in Kirkuk. The chief U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq denounced Shiite protests in Najaf Sunday, saying the lethal demonstrations had exceeded the democratic rights to protest, speak and use the media. Sadr is a waste of perfectly good organic chemicals, who will rid us of this troublesome cleric? |
| Posted by:Lux |
| #43 From Iraqthemodel blog - perspective on Al-Sadr. http://www.iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/ |
| Posted by: AF Lady TROLL 2004-04-04 7:51:30 PM |
| #42 Well, the first thing to do is cordon off Badr City. The second this is to order them to start handing over the ringleaders. The third thing is to infiltrate the cordon with our team's spies and hitmen. You can guess the fourth. |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-04-04 9:18:02 PM |
| #41 [Troll droppings deleted] |
| Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL 2004-04-04 7:51:30 PM |
| #40 CF - I see your Getting their attention to be the same as Step 4, heh. The reports I've read today said his house is even surrounded - but the twits don't say if he's in it, or not. JH - He's marching to the orders of his masters, the Iranian Mad Mullahs. He's their boy and I'll bet this power play is their bidding - for the reasons I speculated about up in #13. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 11:38:05 PM |
| #39 .com and Mhw... Step two should be to get their attention... Droopping a MOAB or three on Sadr's compound ought to do it. After that we should get all hardcase on their ass. I just hope we (or whoever is in charge) have the belly for it. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-04-04 11:32:42 PM |
| #38 I know logic is beyond most islamic hard-liners but one must wonder how stupid Sadr must be to be pulling this now. If he waits two months, the Shiites gain majority and he can move about w/relative impunity. As OS said, he has now brought the attention of us to him or as I like to say the 'eye of mordor' is upon him. Same w/the assmunchs in Fallujah - they will not escape the eye either. Matter of time, be patient. |
| Posted by: Jarhead 2004-04-04 9:27:42 PM |
| #37 mhw - Step One was done hours ago, according to press reports. I suggest we skip 2 & 3. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 9:19:25 PM |
| #36 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted] |
| Posted by: mhw TROLL 2004-04-04 9:18:02 PM |
| #35 .com from your mouth to God's ear. We can only hope. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-04-04 9:14:46 PM |
| #34 RWV - IMHO, NOW, while the asshats are out there fighting is when to do the job. Roll 'em up and kill them all while they're in the streets, armed, and obviously engaged as our enemy. NOW. It is 5:09 PM in Baghdad right now - we own the night. Don't stop the engagement until we've killed them all. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 9:08:27 PM |
| #33 Rafael, President Bush and his Administration don't work that way and you have a misapprehension about what the WOT is really about and why we're waging it the way we are. With 600 dead soldiers in Operation Iraqi Freedom, 3,000 dead on 9/11 and a war to win over the death cult of IslamoFascism in the Middle East that will probably take years, one doesn't talk about "cutting one's losses." That is Clintoon-think and of the past. And Bush is going to win the election without resorting to any cheap "wag the dog" scenarios: invading Iraq in the first place was politically risky enough without officially treating it as a "mistake" by "cutting one's losses." This isn't a bet at the tables in Vegas, but a World War for the preservation of Civilization. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-04 9:03:56 PM |
| #32 Sadr City just got added to "time and place of our choosing" list. If the Marines don't restore order by killing everyone who opposes the CPA in Fallujah and Sadr City in the next day or two, Bush follows in the footsteps of those vacillating ******s Clinton and Kerry. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-04-04 9:02:10 PM |
| #31 You may be interested in what Zayed has to say about Sadr, today... |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 8:51:38 PM |
| #30 Maybe we should have liberated greater Kurdistan. At least we could be sure who our friends are. |
| Posted by: phil_b 2004-04-04 8:32:17 PM |
| #29 This bastard is trying to bring Iraq under theocratic rule; therefore he is a part of what gave us 9/11. Kill him, along with his henchmen. No handover. No quarter. No insurgents leave Fajullah alive. No excuses. No mercy. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-04-04 8:28:42 PM |
| #28 In theory a US land base in Iraq was a good idea, but with the status quo...it ain't happening. My feeling is that Washington wants to cut its losses and everything is in a holding pattern until the election. We'll see shortly whether I'm right. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-04-04 8:27:56 PM |
| #27 Since they are complicit co-conspirators with Sadr and the jihadis, it makes sense to me to throw Al Jizz and every other known collabortive "news" org out of the country. This will help in numerous ways - I'm sure that's obvious to everyone keeping score. And fuck those who don't like it. Then... |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 8:26:30 PM |
| #26 AL Sadr has just put himself at risk - he is opposing the legitimate governing power and is doing so with only the most radical supporting him. Now a case can be made for treason, given his attacks on local Iraqi polic and regional Iraqi authority. He may not realize it, but he just signed his own death warrant, not from just the US, but from others inside Iraq. Sadr is just another wanna-be dictator, and his action prove it - there is nothign religious at all about killing local polic and engaging armed forces that are trying to reconstruct the nation. Glad he stuck his head out finally, so we can chop it off. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2004-04-04 8:15:26 PM |
| #25 Rafael, I sense that you are thinking that when this "handover" occurs next June 30th, we will then leave Iraq. Nothing could possibly be further from the truth: we're in Iraq to stay, because a large part of the unspoken reason we wanted in there to begin with, was so Iraq could become a U.S. land base for future Middle Eastern operations. All that's going to happen on June 30th is that civil administration of Iraq is going to be turned over to an Iraqi government of some sort. I guarantee you, not one single American soldier will be leaving then; and if there's further trouble after that, we will deal with it. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-04-04 8:07:33 PM |
| #24 Rafael the Soviets were in Afghanistan for a whole different reason than we are in Iraq and as the Evil Empire was in its final stages, there was massive troop demoralization. We have managed to work even with the xenophobic Afghans. We are not in Iraq to take it over as a Soviet satellite or to expand the spread of Stalinism, but to clean out the terrorist swamp and leave democracy in its place. Plus, our soldiers are respected and loved for being there, plus it's a volunteer force, many of whom were motivated to join and fight by the 9/11 attacks on this country in which 3,000 Americans were slaughtered in the name of Islamist jihad. The Shiites are still still pushing death in that name and that is why we're in Iraq and why we have to win this battle and all other similar battles decisively. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-04 7:52:40 PM |
| #23 [Troll droppings deleted] |
| Posted by: Man Bites Dog TROLL 2004-04-04 7:51:30 PM |
| #22 Yup, it's time for a smackdown. We know who the players are, and a show of force is always needed to impress the Arab/Moslem. In Baghdad, a spokesman for Mr Sadr said he had called for an end to protests, asking his supporters instead to gather at his offices or in mosques. "Terrorise your enemy, as we cannot remain silent over its violations," his statement said. It is not clear from the translation of his statement whether the cleric was literally calling on his followers to resort to violence. But there was no doubt about the militancy of some of his supporters. "Sheikh Moqtada Sadr is our leader. He's going to lead Iraq. Today we fought the occupation troops and we will keep fighting them until we take over," said 23-year-old Mohammad Hanoun, a protester wielding a chain in Baghdad. AC-130s and Hellfire equipped Apaches 24/7 please. |
| Posted by: Parabellum 2004-04-04 7:44:46 PM |
| #21 Jen, in the mind of an AK-wielding jihadi, it is like Afghanistan. If the US pulls out, especially under circumstances such that exist now in Iraq, it will be seen by them that they forced out another super-power, just like in Afghanistan. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-04-04 7:43:51 PM |
| #20 Wank, wank, WANK! Sadr, & Sistani, need to go. We need to make a HUGE show of it when we kill both of them along with a few thousand of their supporters. Innocent bystanders be damned. I'm all for the populating of some mass graves of our own. Folks, you can wring your hands and opine; "oh my, what are we going to do?" The answer is obvious. We NEED to kill about 50% of the population in various areas of Iraq. Normally in WAR, the VICTOR, slaughters most of the male population. We didn't do that! These people do NOT realize that they have been defeated. It is well past time to correct this little oversight. Savagery is in order. Otherwise, they will continue to come for us. I hope this helps you correctly understand the true nature of the situation. -AR |
| Posted by: Analog Roam 2004-04-04 7:39:06 PM |
| #19 Rafael, this isn't Afghanistan (where we've also engaged in battle military successfully) and the U.S. isn't the Soviet Union. Not even close. This is here and now. History doesn't repeat itself even when the parallels are strong. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-04 7:28:28 PM |
| #18 It should say...a run to the finish line. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-04-04 7:27:07 PM |
| #17 Do we have the nerve to do what must be done? I know our troops do, but does Bremer? Does GWB? We'll see. I hate to disappoint you guys but right now it's just a run to finish line. The hand-over is in sight, and the name of the game is just to get there with the least amount of casualties. I'll be very surprised if any real offensive action is taken. And if God forbid Kerry should win...might as well call it Spain Part Two. This is 1980s Afghanistan all over again. How will it end this time? |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-04-04 7:25:44 PM |
| #16 The most dramatic step we can take immediately is to blow Saddam's brains out on Al-Jazeera. We'll catch hell for it from the French lawyers and the UN etc. , but it's an attention-grabber and ought to persuade both the Sunnis and the Shia's that we're quite serious about all this. While I was all in favor of making a well-prepared response to the Fallujah atrocity, I have to wonder now whether today would have played out the way it did if Fallujah had become a smoking hole in the sand on Friday. |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-04-04 7:03:30 PM |
| #15 "The Bad Guys have just bet the farm we can't do it." I agree. Whether we can, or not, depends entirely on whether the people in charge are capable of switching gears fast enough and come to grips with the fact that a war--a genuine, all out war--is being waged against us. It's time to send the "Chief Wiggles" types away for a while, and bring back the hard boys- and the hard methods. No more toy drives until this shit is put down, and hard. I'm not as pessimistic as YS, but I am definitely worried about this. Do we have the nerve to do what must be done? I know our troops do, but does Bremer? Does GWB? We'll see. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-04-04 6:59:58 PM |
| #14 Oh, yeah...I forgot: Take out al-Sadr, either by killing or jail. Make it part of the new Iraqi law that the preaching and certainly the waging of Islamist jihad by violence against "infidels" is a crime, punishable by severe penalty of incarceration up to death by execution. We need to start considering this as a law to be adopted by countries all over the world, starting with the U.S., followed by Britain and Australia. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-04 6:54:30 PM |
| #13 Folks, I've just had an uncomfortably bloody visit from Ye Olde Clue Bat. This is the Big Push. Whether just opportunistic or in common cause, this represents the final phase move to destabilize everything in Iraq prior to the July 1st Gov't handover. Fallujah is, prolly - no one really knows yet - a pure Wahhabi-funded effort. Sadr City is, definitely - Sadr is their biggest and best card to play in the game, the start of the Black Hats' effort. I say that Sadr, the Mad Mullah's most powerful puppet in Iran, has now been put fully into play. They are betting big, you might even charactize it as a desperation play, that: 1) the US is spread too thin to effectively react 2) the US is too PC to take Sadr out 3) that Sadr can draw off the malcontents from others, such as Sistani and use them to inflate his effort 4) that they can generate sufficient chaos (Chaos is Islam's best buddy, Lucky!) to cause the handover to become a disaster, at best or muddled, at worst 5) they will play Sadr, a disposable if precious commodity for the Black Hats, until he's used up This it it, folks: the beginning of the push. From Fallujah forward, we can call this the "direct action phase" of the organized effort by the external enemies of a democratic Iraq. IMHO, this is their moment of truth. I'd say this has been planned very very well - and collusion with the Wahhabis seems reasonable, though surprising. They are playing for keeps here. The joker in the game is our ability, or lack, to adapt to reality instead of being trapped by our civility / PCism. The Bad Guys have just bet the farm we can't do it. Tipping the Black Hats and taking the 40 KM strip would stop this shit dead in its tracks. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 6:48:36 PM |
| #12 Way past time to get medieval on their asses. We can win their hearts and minds much, much later. Crank back up Shock and Awe and get Bremer to cancel that "handover" indefinitely! |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-04-04 6:44:50 PM |
| #11 Atomic Conspiracy Thanks for the info! |
| Posted by: Yosemite Sam 2004-04-04 6:13:53 PM |
| #10 power and lights off? water off? seal this shithole off and start the block-by-block reconquista! |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-04-04 6:11:03 PM |
| #9 This looks like an outright coup attempt by the Sadr forces. From UPI earlier today: "Trucks and minibuses with license tags from all over the predominantly Shiite south of Iraq were seen streaming in to Sadr City and unloading waves of young men in the black t-shirts of the Mehdi Army, which has previously never openly displayed weapons banned by the occupation forces. In front of Sadr's headquarters, they were seen arming themselves with AK-47 assault rifles and rocket propelled grenade launchers and organizing in military formations before deploying throughout the neighborhood in cars and pickup trucks. The men were also seen forming roadblocks to prevent entry into the neighborhood, which has upwards of 3 million people living in one of the most densely populated urban settings east of the Gaza Strip. As night fell, U.S. military vehicles, tanks and troops could be seen setting up roadblocks around the neighborhood themselves and reports of widespread fighting in the area have been reported by sources in the neighborhood. One resident told UPI by phone that Sadr's militia had seized all five of Sadr City's police stations are were declaring their own form of martial law. There are also reports that U.S. infantry backed by helicopters and tanks have entered the neighborhood to reclaim the police facilities from the militia." So, Sadr brought his militia in from all over the country to set this up. US forces regained control but with very heavy fighting. I don't think we know the full details yet, it is still dark in Baghdad. There is no telling what daylight might reveal. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-04-04 6:08:34 PM |
| #8 We will do very little. We're stuck with "Yes Men" running the show who are worried about their promotions instead of fighting and winning – they want the Iraqis to like or even love us instead of respect us. This whole "Hearts and Minds" thing is a crock. All we are doing is experimenting with warfare instead of waging it. Mankind has been fighting for over 5000 years and there is a reason he's never used the "Hearts and Minds" approach before -because it doesn't work. It’s not a hard concept, just a foolish one and we are kidding ourselves if we think we are intellectually superior because we are trying to implement it. We have reached a point because of PC, media, and intergovernmental politics that we have retarded our ability to win. We will not win this war or any other war unless we are willing to wage a total war instead of tinkering and experimenting with it. Another perfect example is when Gen Franks let OBL get out of Tora Bora because he was afraid of casualties and didn’t want to mess up his impending retirement. What do you think Caesar or even Patton would have done with a general who did that? The boots on the ground get it - they know the risks. A leader has to be ready to take them and let his men do their job. What do you think the outcome would have been if we had approached D-Day with the same reasoning? There is no room for peacetime generals in wartime and that’s who’s running the show. Warriors, not 'politicians' win wars - history testifies to that and our current leaders are all peacetime politicians/generals. We are doomed to every other preceding great civilization's fate if attitudes do not change. All of them before us reached a point where they forgot the basics indulged in amenities and were overrun by less advanced peoples who knew and practiced the basics. We are making the same mistakes that destroyed the Persians, Greeks, and Romans. What we are seeing here is the beginning of the end us but don’t worry, China will fill in our gap. |
| Posted by: Yosemite Sam 2004-04-04 6:08:33 PM |
| #7 Hearing the news, Kerry starts jerking off about Iraq in 5.. 4.. 3.. 2.. |
| Posted by: badanov 2004-04-04 6:01:15 PM |
| #6 "Uh, yeah, Muckty's gone to "consult" with Al-Mahdi... Yeah, that's the ticket..." |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-04-04 5:54:05 PM |
| #5 "I know - tis extremist and evil." It is neither. It is a reasonable approach and it is moral. This bastard is trying to bring Iraq under theocratic rule; therefore he is a part of what gave us 9/11. Kill him, along with his henchmen. We think of such things as "extreme" or even "evil" because we are comparatively so much more civilized than they; but they interpret our overall decency as weakness, and so long as they interpret it as weakness, it IS weakness. We have to nip this crap in the bud. NOW. Or Iraq goes down the shitter, and us along with it. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-04-04 5:45:04 PM |
| #4 We had better either cut our losses and run...or meet the resistance with the only thing they understand...force. They had better either sniper the Shit-head cleric, or precision guided ordnance his apartment building. Take a lesson from Sharon. |
| Posted by: anymouse 2004-04-04 5:41:11 PM |
| #3 How typically disingenuous of CNN to fail to directly name Al Sadr. Ideas, anyone? Mebbe a direct approach to Sistani at this point makes sense: "We're gonna kill this fucktard Sadr. Wanna play ball?" I know - tis extremist and evil. But the realities have the stage and Sadr must go. Sistani can pick up much of his support with a deftly handled middle-of-the-road stance delivered in conjunction with Sadr's "disappearance", no? That would leave far fewer martyrs to throw themselves under out tank tracks... |
| Posted by: .com 2004-04-04 5:33:31 PM |
| #2 "...but I have little interest in fighting the people we saved from Saddam Hussein." And the thing we need to do about it is arrange things so that they have little interest in fighting us. I think it's time to resume "Major Combat Operations" in Iraq. |
| Posted by: Dave D. 2004-04-04 5:31:29 PM |
| #1 Tacitus thinks this is the beginning of a general Shiite rebellion against the CPA. One possibility he hasn't considered is that it may also eventually signal the beginning of the Shiite war of retribution against the Sunni. In either case, we'll see. On the other hand, I can't help but notice how convenient the timing of this is. First Fallujah, then this. If this is a general Shiite uprising (and it's _not_ settled that it is), I have serious doubts as to how long we'll stay in Iraq. I'm a supporter of the war, but I have little interest in fighting the people we saved from Saddam Hussein. |
| Posted by: Patrick Phillips 2004-04-04 5:23:15 PM |