You have commented 339 times on Rantburg.

Your Name
Your e-mail (optional)
Website (optional)
My Original Nic        Pic-a-Nic        Sorry. Comments have been closed on this article.
Bold Italic Underline Strike Bullet Blockquote Small Big Link Squish Foto Photo
Submit your comments on this article
Iraq-Jordan
10 Sadrites Meet Allah
2004-05-21
Ten civilians, including an Iraqi working for an Arabian television were killed in overnight fighting between US troops and Shiite militiamen in the holy cities of Karbala and Najaf, hospital sources said Friday.
Got one of their embeds.
Another 16 people were wounded in the violence which erupted in the two cities between coalition troops and the private militia of militant Shiite Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr, medics added. Nine bodies were taken to the morgue at Karbala city hospital, doctor Ali Aradawi, head of the casualty department informed. Another 10 people were brought in with injuries. In Najaf, Kifah Shamal, director of the Hakim hospital said one civilian was killed and six others wounded in a short burst of heavy fighting near the city's cemetery.
Well, they won't have to move him then.
Posted by:Steve

#16  perhaps the civilians should start wearing some kind of uniform to distinguish them, right?

They should vacate the street, for starters. As the US military doesn't bomb houses haphazardly, I would say they are much safer in their own homes.
Posted by: Rafael   2004-05-21 1:52:28 PM  

#15  There are no innocents. Just the unlucky.
Posted by: john   2004-05-21 1:51:07 PM  

#14  N guard> "At some level it is incumbent upon the noncombatants to make themselves distinct from the targets"

Yeah, perhaps the civilians should start wearing some kind of uniform to distinguish them, right?

But anyway, since there exist no civilians, and everyone is guilty by implication, as Raj seems to me to be claiming, the problem has been solved already.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-05-21 1:49:00 PM  

#13   Actualy , Aris, you do raise a good point in #4.

# define Torquemada
And besides, who among us is truly innocent, hmmm?
# undefine Torquemada

At some level it is incumbent upon the noncombatants to make themselves distinct from the targets, especialy when the targets are deliberately trying to get the noncombatants killed by us for their own purposes. The targets appear by their actions to have declared that they will not accept anyone being neutral or having a protected, uninvolved status.

Because of the pecular nature of this war, camoflage takes on a whole new definition. The (surviving) targets have learned that physicaly avoiding detection is essentialy impossible, the deception has to take the form imitating prohibited target sets. It will be fascinating to see the evolution of this particular arms race.
Posted by: N guard   2004-05-21 1:35:05 PM  

#12  Aris, the concept is called implication.
Posted by: Raj   2004-05-21 12:48:53 PM  

#11  And be very careful about where you point that shoulder-carried "TV camera" - K?
Posted by: .com   2004-05-21 12:33:32 PM  

#10  There may be intense gunbattles where innocents are victims.

But on the other hand, if the place is a declared warzone, it's a lot less likely that they're merely innocents, and more probable that they are somehow involved with one side or the other. Sad fact is, anyone in a warzone is a possible target, be they innocent or a participant. Best thing to do is to get the hell out of there, let the professionals and the amateurs deal with it.
Posted by: The Doctor   2004-05-21 12:27:35 PM  

#9  Isn't it special how when the reporter is standing within a few dozen yards of armed militiamen firing on, or threatening to fire on, U.S. soldiers and he is killed in the counterfire, the U.S. is responsible for his death. Can't remember ever hearing this said when one of our embeds was killed or wounded by the other side.
Posted by: Anonymous   2004-05-21 12:25:24 PM  

#8  "Or do you believe in intense gunbattles in which all victims are innocent victims, Aris?"

I never said that and you know very well I didn't.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-05-21 11:57:16 AM  

#7  How can you tell thie difference? Maybe he was sending the same copy to both and getting paid by both.
Posted by: Mr. Davis   2004-05-21 11:41:40 AM  

#6  Is anyone sure the imbed reporter was Al-Jazzera, and not Washington Post?
Posted by: BigEd   2004-05-21 11:06:44 AM  

#5  Better question is, where is AFP getting that these "people" are civilians, aside from the one in Najaf? Interesting thing - the articles never directly quote named hospital sources about that - it's just asserted before and after the actual quotations, which mention "people" and "bodies". It's actually daintier than I'd expect from the AFP, to be honest. Have to wonder if it's a cleanup job by the end-users.

Or do you believe in intense gunbattles in which all victims are innocent victims, Aris?
Posted by: Mitch H.   2004-05-21 10:52:58 AM  

#4  So, we're nowadays assuming that civilians no longer exist at all? Where did you get that all the victims were "Sadrites", pretty please?
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-05-21 10:46:51 AM  

#3  Interesting. Al Jiz is Sunni-TV. Saderites are Shia. If anyone needed proof that Sunni & Shia extremists were working together, this is it.
Posted by: Anonymous4904   2004-05-21 9:20:23 AM  

#2  What?! No women and children??
Posted by: The Screaming Nun   2004-05-21 9:19:06 AM  

#1  Arab news channel al-Jazeera said today one of its employees was killed in clashes between U.S. forces and militiamen. It said Rashid Hamid Wali was killed in fighting in the southern city of Kerbala where U.S. forces are battling to put down a weeks-old rebellion by Sadr's militia.

Like I said, one of their embeds.
Posted by: Steve   2004-05-21 9:03:24 AM  

00:00