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| Dershowitz: US Needs Improved Torture Tactics. |
| 2004-05-22 |
| YIKES! For the benefit of foreign readers, Dershowitz is a leading civil liberties activist and attorney, especially noted for his participation in church/state cases brought by the American Civil Liberties Union. He is the classic "liberal mugged by 9-11." Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, who urged that terrorists be tortured in a Nov. 2001 column he wrote for the Los Angeles Times, isnât backing away from his position one bit in the wake of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. In fact, the noted civil libertarian said Thursday that the only thing U.S. did wrong was to use tactics that were amateurish and ineffective. "We should never do what we did at Abu Ghraib, which is turn a bunch amateurs with no experience on to a bunch of low-level detainees and tell them essentially, do what you have to do to soften them up," Dershowitz told MSNBCâs "Scarborough Country." Instead, torture of high value terror suspects should be authorized by either the President, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, or the Secretary of Defense, he urged. Asked if he thought Americans were ready to "do what it takes" to get information from terrorists who threaten American lives, Dershowitz told host Joe Scarborough, "I think so. But I think Americans want us to do it smarter, want us to do it better. We could have done it a lot smarter." "If we were to limit our rough interrogation methods to the most important, high-value detainees," he said, the critics would be few. "Nobody is complaining about what we have done to [9/11 mastermind] Shaikh Khalid Mohammed," he noted. The acceptance of torture in the Khalid Mohammed case, said Dershowitz, shows that "Americans are prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to save American lives and the lives of many others, as long as we do it smart, and we do it with accountability." And he challenged the claims by some pundits who say torture almost never works because the subject will inevitably say anything to alleviate the pain. "We had a case in the Philippines where [local police] tortured somebody and revealed a plot to knock down 11 or 12 commercial airliners flying over the Pacific and a plot to kill the pope," he noted. And Dershowitz even defended sexual humiliation as a good way to press Muslim detainees for critical information. "Itâs a good thing to use women interrogators on radical Muslim extremists," he told MSNBC. "I think itâs a good thing to make them be stripped naked. I think these are legitimate forms of interrogation in cases where we have high-level prisoners who can provide high-level information." The top legal thinker recommended that the U.S. should unabashedly tell the world that torturing high value terrorist suspects is justified "because of the war that has been thrust upon us." "As long as we do it in a way that we can be proud and hold our heads up and say, yes, we did this," he told MSNBC. "But we have to be smart and we have to have accountability." The worldâs terrorists, he said, have "put us in a position where have to defend our civilians. And thatâs the highest calling of democracy, to defend its civilians against guilty murderers that are out there trying to kill our grandchildren and kill our children." |
| Posted by:Atomic Conspiracy |
| #12 'Think of Z's comments every time the Texas crook pukes the word: "freedom."' StalinBitesTrolls, I resent your remarks completely! Talking about an American President "puking" the word "Freedom?" Not in my world. Not about my President, whom I support, or his stand for Freedom. Stay in North Korea or whatever Communist enclave you're phoning it in from. |
| Posted by: Jen 2004-05-22 6:16:37 PM |
| #11 RVW: Do you feel lucky, punk? .com: This could be the start of something big. |
| Posted by: Dog Bites Trolls 2004-05-22 6:06:21 PM |
| #10 AC - I could not disagree more strongly. Kerry is a traitor and Brahmin Donk Liberal. On every front (from WoT to Homeland Security to The Patriot Act to "the wall" between intelligence agencies to economics to multiculti internationalism to Soros socialism) I would fully expect him to do the wrong thing. His election would set us back years in the WoT and, you can skewer me if he wins and this prediction is wrong, cause us to be hit ala 9/11 at least once if not more simply due to his inability to fucking say what he means and mean what he says - sewing total policy confusion and ineffective effete elitist buffonery. He has no vision and no integrity - becoming President is simply the next thing after being a Senator - and something he seems to think he deserves to be. Personally, I think he deserves to be in Leavenworth making smaller and smaller rocks. But, of course, I have no strong opinions on the election. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-05-22 5:24:17 PM |
| #9 Partisanship tends to obscure it, but the fifth column left hates and fears John Kerry. They hate Bush a lot more, naturally, so they give Kerry some lukewarm support as the lesser of two evils. Kerry has repeatedly demonstrated that he will not throw in the towel against the terrorists, nor will he abandon Israel or Iraq. His yammering about the UN is standard rhetoric designed to appease the idiotarians in his camp. He knows it isn't possible, and would not advance his real agenda even if it were. Other elements of the Mumia-Cong/ANSWER agenda, such as the release of Saddam Hussein and the detainees at Gitmo, the annihilation of Israel, and the nationalization of media, will receive similarly short shrift. I am not afraid of Kerry winning. At the very least, his policies will not be encumbered by the dire influence of Satanic Arabia. Once in office, Kerry will not need the far-left moonbats, assuming that he needs them even now. He will infuriate them by continuing the war and otherwise rejecting their depraved totalitarian agenda. His inauguration will be the trigger for the fifth column left's long-predicted uprising. Imagine Dershowitz as Attorney-General when that happens. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-22 4:23:46 PM |
| #8 Is Dog Bites Trolls the latest incarnation of Man Bites Dogs or just a fellow traveller? If I wanted to read this sort of stuff I would go to the Democratic Underground. |
| Posted by: RWV 2004-05-22 4:15:21 PM |
| #7 The Spanish Inquisition was primarily concerned with extracting confessions rather than information. This is a significant difference, since such confessions have no particular relationship to the facts; while information, once revealed, can be confirmed by other means. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-22 3:59:15 PM |
| #6 The Spanish Inquisition (I'll bet no one was expecting that!) long ago proved the dubious quality of information extracted under physical duress or torture. Inflicting extreme bodily pain can just as often coerce subjects into false confessions. Given the LTH (Low Threshold of Humiliation) factor exhibited by so many Iraqi prisoners, their particular susceptability to practices that other adult men pay money to enjoy does most certainly pose nearly irresistible temptations for their interrogators. Without intimate knowledge of the individual detainees' circumstances of capture and prior intelligence gathered about them, it is difficult for any outsider to determine what sort of interrogation measures were appropriate to help ensure the continued safety and wellbeing of troops remaining in the field. Most certainly, it was exceptionally ill advised to have placed a "wheeled vehicle specialist" and other soldiers totally untrained in Military Police duties in a position of responsibility for these high-liability prisoners. This could have been foreseen by anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size. There are alternatives to abuse or torture that exhibit huge potential for greater reliability than traditional polygraph or voice stress analysis methods. Advanced interrogation techniques could easily benefit from high technology developments in the field of physiological and neural scanning. New work is being done on Facial Thermal Imaging, physiological parameter analysis and even mechanical typing responses. One very promising technology involves direct examination of brain activity during interrogation. This method is called fMRI (functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging). The group used a Function Magnetic Resonance machine (fMRI) to study deception. An fMRI is a neuroimaging devise, which employs strong magnetic fields to induce molecules within the brain tissue to emit radio signals. By mapping the signals onto digital images of the brain, the fMRI is able to monitor the movement of blood, determining which areas of the brain are activated by a particular task. ... When people gave truthful answers, the fMRI showed increased activity in parts of the brain related to vision and finger movement. When they lied, the same areas lit up, but so did additional areas including the anterior cingulated cortex, a section of the brain that has been linked to monitoring of errors and attention. Dr. Langleben concluded that the study showed âa neurophysiological difference between deception and truth at the brain activation level that can be detected with an fMRI.â Essentially, it took more mental energy to lie than to tell the truth. ... Nevertheless, in the near future, we may not only discover whether a person is being deceptive, but we could determine whether the deception was an on-the-sport fib or a premeditated lie. We will also be able to determine peoples deeply held contentions and beliefs. While bulky and overly sensitive, these limitations will become less restrictive as technological advances in superconductors and sensor fabrication techniques improve. An entire unit could be loaded into a plane for quick transport to a prisoner location. Conventional MRI units are already truck-mounted for hospital equipment time share programs. When the day is done, there are sufficiently immoral individuals who are willing to perpetrate atrocities on such a scale that they overcome certain limits of human patience and mercy. The "ticking (nuclear) time bomb" scenario is most definitely one of them. To paraphrase Dennis Miller: "If it takes hooking terrorists up to car batteries to prevent a nuclear terror attack, then I have only two things to say; Red is positive and black is negative." |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-05-22 3:50:13 PM |
| #5 Yeah, torture every piece of info. out of this scum, and then bury them in pig crap. In his forthcoming Monday speech, GWB will almost certainly support one-time "democratic" (read: cleric prescribed balloting) elections in Iraq, which will, in the current context, put the US in the position of legitimating Islamofascist terror-statism. Non-spin consumers with a distate for packaged-fiction, should check out some translations of Iraq terrorist leaders, before endorsing the Saudi puppet who wants to give their supporters a jihad-ballot: http://tides.carebridge.org/Translations/Zarqawi.htm Thanks to God, we are attacking them like they are attacking us and we are hitting them like they are hitting us. We are not equals to them. They fight to go to hell; we fight to go to heaven. We do not have much support or capabilities but God is on our side, they have no one on their side. God has blessed us; we have cut off their head and ripped their bodies in many areas; the United Nations in Baghdad, coalition forces in Karbala, the Italians in Nasiriyyah, the American forces on the Khalidiyyah Bridge, American intelligence in Al-Shaheen Hotel, the CIA in Al-Rashid Hotel and the Polish forces in Al-Hillah... They know that if the Muslim Giant is awakened, it will not stay away from Rome, Washington, Paris and London. They tried before to cover the truth about the battle, they tried to damage the pure banner of Jihad. They made people believe that the resistance is the work of reminiscence of the fallen regime and element of the atheist Baâth Party to prevent the nation from becoming engaged in the battle and not join the war. This is a lie, forgery... The enemies of God know that this war is the turning point in this world. It is the cross- roads between complete control of the infidel west and its culture and way of living and the Islamic way. Bush said in a speech that if democracy fails in Iraq it will encourage terrorism in the world. Tony Blair has emphasized that what is happening today in Iraq is going to determine the relationship between the Muslim World and the west. He named it the basic battle of the 21st century. He added âWe are in a situation where failure in Iraq will be catastrophic for the West.â ...Muslim Nation, reach for jihad before the infidels gather against Mujahidin. If jihad fails in Iraq, the nation will never rise again. And the nation will be strangled, we will be hit with humiliation and sanctions will be imposed on us forever. Our situation will be as Ibn Kathir said: âIn the beginning and the end, when people walked away from jihad and did not see the enemy until they were in their houses; they go and tell them do not move and they go and get a knife and kill them one by one.â Muslims have to repent and go back to their religion and to jihad. Think of Z's comments every time the Texas crook pukes the word: "freedom." |
| Posted by: Dog Bites Trolls 2004-05-22 3:40:02 PM |
| #4 Dersh and his fellow war liberals are fewer in number than their conservative counterparts, but they make it up in ferocity and ruthlessness. Charles Johnson of LGF is another good example. Today, he cherishes his role as ogre and antichrist to the idiotarian fifth column. Until 9-11, however, his blog was largely devoted to Bush-bashing. It sometimes still is, especially when "our friends, the Saudis," come up. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-22 3:23:21 PM |
| #3 I can't believe what I just read. |
| Posted by: Long Hair Republican 2004-05-22 3:13:20 PM |
| #2 Another pro-war liberal is CBS correspondant Bob Simon, whose distinguished media career included a stint as a prisoner of war during GW1. Simon advocates the issuance of secret "assassination warrants" for a Gideon/Phoenix style campaign against terrorist agents and enablers in all parts of the world. Under his plan, as I remember it, a terrorist banker might fall down the stairs in Milan, a propaganda agent would die in a mysterious road accident near London, a Saudi prince's private jet would vanish over the Indian Ocean; all very quiet and supremely illegal under international law. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-05-22 3:11:52 PM |
| #1 Asked if he thought Americans were ready to "do what it takes" to get information from terrorists who threaten American lives, Dershowitz told host Joe Scarborough, "I think so. But I think Americans want us to do it smarter, want us to do it better. We could have done it a lot smarter." He's right: we used a bunch of amateurs and weren't selective with who we pressured. Part of the problem was that the circumstances of that day added to the breakdown by putting pressure on MI to produce results. |
| Posted by: Ptah 2004-05-22 2:58:33 PM |