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Home Front: WoT
Scientists say dirty bomb would be a dud
2004-06-11
EFL - hattip to WND
The "dirty bomb" allegedly planned by terror suspect Jose Padilla would have been a dud, not the radiological threat portrayed last week by federal authorities, scientists say. At a June 1 news conference, the Justice Department said the alleged al-Qaida associate hoped to attack Americans by detonating "uranium wrapped with explosives" in order to spread radioactivity. But uranium’s extremely low radioactivity is harmless compared with high-radiation materials - such as cesium and cobalt isotopes used in medicine and industry that experts see as potential dirty bomb fuels. "I used a 20-pound brick of uranium as a doorstop in my office," American nuclear physicist Peter D. Zimmerman, of King’s College in London, said to illustrate the point. Zimmerman, co-author of an expert analysis of dirty bombs for the U.S. National Defense University, said last week’s government announcement was "extremely disturbing - because you cannot make a radiological dispersal device with uranium. There is just no significant radiation hazard"...
Which doesn't lessen the offense of Joe thought there was. And there remains the matter of the boom itself...
Padilla has been held by the U.S. military since 2002 as an enemy combatant, without charge and with little access to lawyers. The Bush administration has been criticized for denying a U.S. citizen normal access to the courts. The Supreme Court is considering whether the government, in defending against terrorism, has such power. Padilla’s lawyer, Donna Newman, said Wednesday of the dirty-bomb allegation that U.S. authorities "should have known that this was nonsense."
But did Joey? That's the question...
"When they frightened everybody, what were they trying to do, if they knew better? To show the administration is on top of things?" she asked. She wants the government to attempt to indict and try her client. "Maybe the problem is the evidence is so weak, it’s laughable," she said.
Hah, hah, hah. An AQ warrior trained in Afghanistan. I can’t beleive the authorities told us he was dangerous.
Comey said the news conference was called "to help people understand the nature of the threat" Padilla posed.
"He’s harmless and he wants to be your child's bus driver. Watch how I pat him on the head. See, he didn’t even growl."
Spokesman Corallo reaffirmed this week that it was Padilla who said uranium would be used. "If that’s what he planned," physicist Oelrich said of Padilla, "it shows he doesn’t know what he’s talking about and hasn’t done even rudimentary homework."
Let him loose. Our bad. From now on we must check a suspect’s SAT scores and college coursework before detaining him.
He wasn’t the only one, according to a Justice Department summary of interrogations. It said Abu Zubaydah, a top al-Qaida lieutenant now in U.S. custody, also envisioned a uranium device when urging Padilla to mount a U.S. attack. At another point, however, the summary said Zubaydah told Padilla the dirty bomb was "not as easy to do as they thought."
We collected all this dirt for nuthin.
Padilla claims "he was never really planning to go through with" any of the terrorist assignment, Comey told reporters.
It’s all a misunderstanding.
Posted by:Super Hose

#19  I hope some of you Wingnuts understood that Padilla is a stupid bad guy, but that does not excuse the present Wingnut AG when he says an idiocy such as that Jose's 'dirty bomb' would have killed thousands. he just frightened people. Blow up apartment buildings? Made a little sense.

Yeah, I remember the RAH story, Solution Unsatisfactory. Good idea; bad calculation. You can't make dirty bombs that dirty.

I stand by my comments.
Posted by: Peter D. Zimmerman   2004-07-04 9:32:06 PM  

#18  Let's not forget that Padilla's OTHER plan was to blow up apartment buildings.

Zenster:
I still maintain that, even if it is unsuccessful, were a dirty bomb to be detonated on American soil, Medina, or even Mecca, should be dusted with a similar isotope (immediately prior to the Haj) as a demonstration to the Islamic world of what is to be gained by such attacks.

Anyone remember the title of Heinlein's pre-WWII short story about nuclear war? The war was fought by dusting with radioactives...
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2004-06-11 8:41:28 PM  

#17  morons best dirty bomb made with ham grenade and dog poop
Posted by: HalfJustVisiting   2004-06-11 8:29:15 PM  

#16  Padilla has always reminded me of one of those homeboys who's seen "Scarface" too many times.
Posted by: tu3031   2004-06-11 6:48:33 PM  

#15  And you do not want to inhale this stuff. The article didn't mention anything about what happens to the uranium when it's exploded. It seems to me that lots of dust would be produced. But we don't have to ask scientists about that. Let's just quote the ones that agree with us that Padilla isn't a big threat.

Here's the comeback: there are hundreds of tons of DU laying around in Iraq and this type of Dirty Bomb would only spread a few pounds. And to that you say:

100s of tons over a very big, sparsely populated area. 10 lbs over a city block- very small densely populated area. Hmm, which is worse, Mr. Scientist?

/crazy talk
Posted by: BigMutha   2004-06-11 4:06:50 PM  

#14  Our legal system is based upon intent.

Bingo, .com. In many respects, terrorism is all about intent. Whether successful or not, terror attacks seek to disrupt daily life and cause mass panic.

Operable or not, Padilla's plans intended to cause great and greivous harm to Americans and the nation's economy. That he has the IQ of a celery stalk in no way mitigates the heinous aspect of his conspiracy. The simple fact that his plot was in alliance with al Qaeda should be ample reason to baseline his sentence at a ten-year minimum (with no time off for good behavior).

I still maintain that, even if it is unsuccessful, were a dirty bomb to be detonated on American soil, Medina, or even Mecca, should be dusted with a similar isotope (immediately prior to the Haj) as a demonstration to the Islamic world of what is to be gained by such attacks. Repayment in kind ... it seems to be working rather well for the Israelis.
Posted by: Zenster   2004-06-11 3:58:58 PM  

#13  For Anon1... in the nicest & most constructive way I can put it:

"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again - and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore."

-Twain
Posted by: .com   2004-06-11 1:18:56 PM  

#12  Anon1
you dumbass. You do realize your computer monitor emits radiation?
you do realize your BODY emits radiation ?
if all radiation was dangerous you would be dead.
Posted by: dcreeper   2004-06-11 1:08:01 PM  

#11  you cannot make a radiological dispersal device with uranium. There is just no significant radiation hazard."

Don't expect the anti-depleted uranium crowd to believe that.
Posted by: Steve White   2004-06-11 12:26:50 PM  

#10  Don't worry everyone according to the "experts" radiation isn't dangerous anyway so why worry about it? /end sarcasm/
Posted by: Anon1   2004-06-11 11:32:20 AM  

#9  Roger that .com, RC.
Posted by: Zpaz   2004-06-11 11:30:34 AM  

#8  And yet we're supposed to be horribly concerned about the dangers of depleted uranium.
Posted by: Robert Crawford   2004-06-11 11:19:32 AM  

#7  Zpaz - Great minds... Lol!
Posted by: .com   2004-06-11 11:12:19 AM  

#6  Note to Zimmerdick & Editorial Staff of Seattle PI:
Our legal system is based upon intent. Look it up, twits. If Padilla is a fucking moron I'd suggest that's a good thing - which assuages his intent not one bit. One must also ask why publicizing ineffective threats is a good idea. I am glad that they have demonstrated a decidedly low IQ. Plz resist helping them to get a clue, thank you. Now shoot yourselves.

"I used a 20-pound brick of uranium as a doorstop in my office.", said Zimmerman, who has a very distinct lisp, leans noticibly to his left when upright, and has the odd habit of keeping a banger or two in his pocket for those odd moments of hunger. "I intend to eat Drano, soon." Most would agree that Dr Zimmerman should attend to that sooner, rather than later.
Posted by: .com   2004-06-11 11:11:39 AM  

#5  But uranium’s extremely low radioactivity is harmless compared with high-radiation materials - such as cesium and cobalt isotopes used in medicine and industry that experts see as potential dirty bomb fuels

Thanks for straightening out Al-Qaeda's tactics, Mr. Journalist. Its bad enough we are paying for their bombs, do we have to design them as well? If they send some plans, I'm sure I can round up a couple of engineers to critique them. I will, however, need a return address to send the plans back, preferably with GPS coordinates for accuracy. :) I understand the Arab world is not too big on naming their streets.
Posted by: Zpaz   2004-06-11 11:10:26 AM  

#4  Now a little plutonium would be an entirely different matter.
Posted by: RWV   2004-06-11 10:58:59 AM  

#3  Whoops! Michael beat me by 2 minutes. Still, it's a point that bears repeating.
Posted by: Jonathan   2004-06-11 10:49:40 AM  

#2  A weapon doesn't have to be effective to induce terror in the population. To most people, "uranium" = "nuke", and if somebody said that a bomb laced with uranium has just been exploded, the panic would be horrific. Padilla's lawyer knows this and is just blowing smoke.
Posted by: Jonathan   2004-06-11 10:47:44 AM  

#1  Agreed. But that in no way, shape or form would have mitigated the mass panic and economic disruption on the part of an ingnorant public caused by the release of radioactive material.
Posted by: Michael   2004-06-11 10:45:04 AM  

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