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| Iraq-Jordan | ||
| Iraq plans amnesty for killers of US troops | ||
| 2004-07-06 | ||
| This is the last straw. The new Iraqi government is contemplating an amnesty for insurgents who fought American-led forces, including those who have killed soldiers, as a means of dividing rebel forces. But the plan has met strong opposition from some senior American officials and some Iraqis within the interim administration installed last week when sovereignty was officially handed over. Iyad Allawi, the interim prime minister, is due to announce an amnesty programme this week. The aim will be to draw a line under the US-led occupation and effectively legitimise those who fought it. "If he [a fighter] was in opposition against the Americans, that will be justified because it was an occupation force," said Georges Sada, Mr Allawi’s spokesman, at the weekend. "We will give them freedom." Mr Allawi’s main goal is to "start everything from new", he said, by giving a second chance to rebel fighters who hand in their weapons and throw their weight behind the new government. There was "still heavy discussion" about whether killers should be included but Mr Sada suggested that mistakes by Paul Bremer, the former US administrator who disbanded the Iraqi army, had forced some people into joining the insurgency. "Some people were cheated, some were misled," he said. "Some did this because they had no salaries, no food, no bread."
Mr Allawi is also expected to announce the restoration of the death penalty and also curfew laws in the areas that have suffered the greatest unrest. American sources said the US state department, which now holds sway in Iraq after the dissolution of the Pentagon-sponsored Coalition Provisional Authority, also wanted the new government to issue statements condemning Israel as a way of gaining popularity at home and in the Arab world. Any form of full amnesty would be vigorously opposed by the Pentagon and many American generals whose troops have been killed. Hamid Alkifaey, the head of public relations for the new government, said that this had been recognised. "You can’t kill American soldiers and just think it can be pardoned," he said. An American official said: "We have to give Allawi a chance to do it his way. We won’t like everything he does but as long as there is a basic respect for overall human rights then we will not block his initiatives. He needs to be seen as his own man. Besides, the past 15 months have shown that sometimes pragmatism rather than a doctrinaire approach is likely to yield better results. If Allawi can help to achieve stability then we may be prepared to overlook some of the messier details." Mr Allawi has also indicated that he hopes to entice Moqtada al-Sadr, the Shia cleric who led an anti-American uprising in April, into politics. "He is looking for an amnesty," Mr Allawi said. "He is looking to be part of the political process. He is willing . . . to dismantle the militias that he has formed." But last night a statement from Sadr pledged to resist "oppression and occupation", saying the interim government was "illegitimate".
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| #16 But to toss out what I assert based on your claim to speak for the GIs in Iraq is something else. Are GIs seen as occupiers - the mainstream media says so. Polls are mixed, and sources from GIs and others are mixed as well. Plenty of info that the handover HAS made a difference in perceptions...Will going Roman on Fallujah end the violence? A. Who is suggesting to go "Roman" on Fallujah? B. Cite the polls that suggest that the handover has image a big difference in perception that US troops are seen as "occupiers." C. I never said I spoke on behalf of GI's. I speak for myself. You allege that I speak for GI's. |
| Posted by: rex 2004-07-06 6:12:03 PM |
| #15 What do you know about what it takes to win a war, especially a war in the ME where the culture and values are very very different than what happened after WWII. I DONT claim to know everything. I come here to discuss what the impact of different strategies might be. We use info from the mainstream media, from the soldiers, from Iraqi bloggers, from official US military sources, from arab language sources via Memri, and others, etc. Some here have expertise in various areas, including ground combat, naval affairs, intell etc. We all learn from each other Id like to think. If you have a specific critique of what i post thats fine. But to toss out what I assert based on your claim to speak for the GIs in Iraq is something else. Are GIs seen as occupiers - the mainstream media says so. Polls are mixed, and sources from GIs and others are mixed as well. Plenty of info that the handover HAS made a difference in perceptions. Will an amnesty end the violence? No, of course not. Will killing Zarqawi end the violence? Will going Roman on Fallujah end the violence? I dont think ANY ONE POLICY will end the violence. An amnesty MAY be one tool to use. There may be serious arguments against it. What I see here is mainly emotional reactions - "he said he'll forgive people who killed AMERICANS!! damn him!!" exactly the reaction the mainstream media seems to want to elicit, and why theyre taking it out of context. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-07-06 4:33:13 PM |
| #14 Unless youre in Iraq, you have no basis for speaking for the GIs in Iraq. That sentiment should apply to you, LH, yes? What do you know about what it takes to win a war, especially a war in the ME where the culture and values are very very different than what happened after WWII. Also, amnesty after WWII was given to uniformed officers who fought a traditional war against other men in uniform. Sniping, planting bombs, stealing soveniers from dead GI's, all the while dressed as a civilian, is not what amnesty was intended to "forgive." These ignoble murdering civilians will continue doing their evil work in the future, is my guess. They have no courage to fight in uniform, so what makes you think they value the noble intent of amnesty to lay down arms and start anew? Don't you get it, LH? American GI's are seen as "occupiers" and it matters not that sovereignity is handed over to Allawi or not...American GI's, in fact in increased numbers, are still in Iraq. That's what Sunni and Shiite Iraqis see and hate. As long as GI's are still in Iraq, they will be viewed as the "enemy" and they will continue to be targets of "mislead" Iraqis. Is Allawi going to do a monthly amnesty to start "anew?" American GI's are infidels. How are they going to change that? Convert to Islam? Even the Kurds have the good sense to figure that out and look for a contingency plan-ergo Kurds consulting with Israelis a couple of weeks ago. If you think the violence in Iraq will end with an amnesty, you have been drinking too much KoolAid, LH. |
| Posted by: rex 2004-07-06 3:48:26 PM |
| #13 rex cause its a WAR. You win a war, you forgive the guys you beat. Happened in Germany, Japan, etc. It even happens in an insurgency. Especially there. AFAIK the GIs in Iraq NOW understand this. Unless youre in Iraq, you have no basis for speaking for the GIs in Iraq. What we owe to the GIs is to win the damned war. You go to war to win, not to protect the GIs. You mainly want to protect the GIs, keep em home in the first place. And winning an insurgency means playing politics. It means cutting deals, including deals with scumbags. It means dividing the opposition,even if the opposition includes lice. If we cant deal with that, we might as well cut and run now. Zen - I dont see Allawi offering to fold the Baathists or Zarqs as factions - hes offering amnesty to individuals. He is offering to fold in Al mahdis - but weve discussed that enough, and the situation is evolving, so i wont say more now. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-07-06 3:29:57 PM |
| #12 I agree with Zenster. Even musing aloud about the possibility of amnesty in any shape or fashion before purging the "insurgents" of murdering America-haters is wrong,insulting, and dangerous to our troops in Iraq. yuh know there is also evidence that some of the cannon fodder were just unemployed ex-soldiers, in it for the money, or money plus a confused sense of nationalism. Why not give them a chance to see the light?? even if they fall off the wagon later, by that point your security situation is stronger. What hog wash! Tell that Kumbaya forgive and forget gibberish to the surviving families of GI's who were "mistakenly" killed by "mislead" Iraqis, LH. In fact, fly to Iraq tomorrow and argue your sensible case to the GI's in Iraq who are still mourning the deaths of 900 of their brothers. Tell these GI's the "good reasons" why murderers should get amnesty and why they should continue putting their own lives at risk for sensible folks like you. Tell these GI's how their 900 lost brothers are going to come back to life so everyone, not just amnesty beneficiaries, can start life "anew" in Iraq. |
| Posted by: rex 2004-07-06 3:21:36 PM |
| #11 #6 Allawis looking to stabilize the country ahead of elections. Folding a terrorist faction back into Iraq's political mainstream does not come across as a very reliable way to "stabilize the country ahead of elections." What it does represent is ample reason for America to be quite apprehensive about continued terror operations being sourced out of Iraq. Allawi should work on a major purge of the insurgents before extending this sort of olive branch. All the wrong messages are being sent, while both Iraqi and American national security are being ill-served. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2004-07-06 2:59:11 PM |
| #10 yuh know there is also evidence that some of the cannon fodder were just unemployed ex-soldiers, in it for the money, or money plus a confused sense of nationalism. Why not give them a chance to see the light?? even if they fall off the wagon later, by that point your security situation is stronger. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-07-06 2:14:24 PM |
| #9 "Some people were cheated, some were misled," he said. "Some did this because they had no salaries, no food, no bread." Allawi's been talking to Jesse.... |
| Posted by: Pappy 2004-07-06 1:45:03 PM |
| #8 This is the last straw for the poster. He must have left Rantburg to join Indymedia. Is any reasonable person really surprised that a sovreign Iraq would act in its own interests and piss us off? We don't have ten years for us to become acclimated to the Iraqi's doing what needs to be done. We need to focus on the neighbors as soon as Allawi can clean out Fallujah - which he can't until he can get the rest of the triangle to behave. Allawi knows that few will take the amnesty because most of the clowns were never fighting the invaders they were fighting progress. The amnesty is a way to publically redefine the glorious insurgents into the Sadaam Fan Club. Note: some will accept the amnesty but then fall off the wagon rather quickly - look at Sadr. This method has worked excellently for Karzai in Afghanistan. He is now liquidating the bad actors peicemeal instead of all at once. |
| Posted by: Super Hose 2004-07-06 12:57:15 PM |
| #7 Iraq Pres Yawer in USAToday interview: Q: A spokesman for Prime Minister Iyad Allawi suggested over the weekend that the new government may offer amnesty to insurgents who fought against U.S. forces. A: It's not like that. (The amnesty would apply to) people who have been deluded into participating or causing some problems. This will exclude rapists, hostage takers and killers. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-07-06 12:15:31 PM |
| #6 Allawis looking to stabilize the country ahead of elections. Somebody says," I wuz just killing Americans, cause they wuz occupiers" Allawi says - ok, sos no more occupation, now theyre here as a multinational force helping us. Youse ready to put down your gun and play nice, we'll let bygones be bygones - you dont, we kill you. And of course you killed civilians, we cant let bygones be bygones. |
| Posted by: Liberalhawk 2004-07-06 11:50:23 AM |
| #5 Frank G, would that be Allawi's response? |
| Posted by: Anonymous5566 2004-07-06 11:02:59 AM |
| #4 "Amnesty!" - then after they turn themselves in, "Oops! I lied!" |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-07-06 10:21:23 AM |
| #3 Repenting Fever! Catch it! Incredibly naive or incredibly stupid? You make the call. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2004-07-06 10:13:46 AM |
| #2 Actually this is a good idea for all concerened, including us. The new PM must show his independance from us in order to bring about a stable govt. And in turn a stable govt is a benefit to us. |
| Posted by: busybody 2004-07-06 10:05:59 AM |
| #1 This isn't true. No way Allawi would do something like this with our forces still on his doorstep. |
| Posted by: Charles 2004-07-06 8:56:07 AM |