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| Europe |
| Norway: Right-wing politicians want to ban Islam |
| 2004-07-19 |
| EFL & tip to LGF Central members of Kristiansand Progress party claims Hitler's Mein Kampf and the Koran are one of the same, and they want Islam banned in Norway. . Spunky little nords. "We are not the only ones demanding this ban," said Halvor Hulaas, chairperson in Krstiansand Frp to the paper. "This is an opinion that is well established in Scandinavian countries. We are now importing people with a religion that is practiced in the same way it was practiced when it was established in year 600. The freedom we have in Norway may be taken away from us if we do not start to have some demands to these immigrants." So, ah, just what do you think of Islam, Chairman? |
| Posted by:Dragon Fly |
| #18 Moderate Muslims are like Pedophile Catholic priests --- an exception. |
| Posted by: Anonymous5397 2004-07-19 10:00:56 PM |
| #17 DPA - Okay. The people you describe aren't really Muslims - they, at least on the surface, are Merkans. :-) They sound about as Muslim as Skeery is Catholic, it seems, lol! Cool. I do believe it is dangerous to counsel everyone to relax. I believe your experience is not the norm (but I congratulate you for having good friends!) and I counsel something between caution and suspicion. That's my take and now I'll STFU and leave it there. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-07-19 8:34:28 PM |
| #16 .com, they're not really that religious... they don't go to the mosque except for holidays etc. so I've never had to opportunity to see them as they come out of mosques. 2 are investment bankers, 1 works at a hedge fund and 1 is a journalist (he's a wacked out liberal though)... they are pretty americanized, if you saw them you probably wouldn't even realize they were from egypt. I think the muslims in the middle east are mostly a different breed. The ones that look for a better life and come to america etc are not the same. This is my point. |
| Posted by: Damn_Proud_American 2004-07-19 8:24:59 PM |
| #15 DPA - Keep your cool as you read. As for comment #12, is it merely a religion? No. Regards comment #13, Did you give 'em the jihadi test? No? Have you ever met them at the moskkk door when they came out on Friday? Did they warmly greet you and stop to converse - or pretend not to know you? Have you ever seen them with the heat on? Have they ever had to choose between being your "friend" or being a "good" Muslim? Still able to go to a non-Wahhabified moskkk? Good for them. Just wondering. It's easy to be nice when there's no challenge. Don't get pissed, either. I had "friends" in Saudi - a couple that I hung out with from both 92-93 and 2000-2003 tours - and when the gloves came off, when the heat was on, they were Muslims first, and never really my "friends" at all. I learned that I could, indeed, be their friend, but it was not reciprocal in SA. But what happens when peaceful Anytown USA is facing the jihadi crisis and it's more like SA with Muslims facing off against non-Muslims? Hey, it's cool and you can certainly believe what you like. I will remember clearly until my dying breath what I saw. If this pisses you off, ask yourself why - don't bother shooting me, I've been there / done that and your statement fails the reality tests. I'm happy for you, if they're truly your friends. This is just FYI of a different person's experiences. As you were and Happy Motoring. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-07-19 7:57:15 PM |
| #14 DPA, I, too, don't doubt that they exist. Problem is finding them, and there I think .com has a point: either they won't speak up because they are more loyal to fellow Muslims than they are to what's right, or they're too scared - or maybe something else entirely. I don't know. But they complain a lot more about the way the West "villifies" and "demeans" and "is offensive to" Islam than they complain about the terrorists who are doing the same damned thing, and a lot more efficiently, too. |
| Posted by: The Doctor 2004-07-19 7:55:48 PM |
| #13 Btw... .com, I know moderate muslims. Some are even very supportive of our war in Iraq, some aren't. But none of the ones I associate with have anything but absolute hatred for Al Queda. |
| Posted by: Damn_Proud_American 2004-07-19 7:41:37 PM |
| #12 Banning a religion is wrong and a VERY scary precedent. For those that don't agree that it's wrong, remember that first it will be used in a way you agree with but next time it might not... in fact it might be used against you. Banning Islam is not even a rational approach. It will definitely push moderates to the extreme. Now, if Norway wants to control it's immigration and not allow people in that they think won't contribute to society then they are welcome. But the day they ban those in country from performing a harmless ceremony or holding personal beliefs is the day Norway is on the way to hell. |
| Posted by: Damn_Proud_American 2004-07-19 7:39:39 PM |
| #11 John - "Moderate Muslims"? Sigh. Not that old shop-worn canard, again. Exercise: Put a real jihadi, just ONE, in front on 10 "Moderate Muslims" and see how many argue with him, fail to do what they're told, or turn him in. Then try it with 50. Then 100. Then come back and tell me how many you needed before they had the collective balls to do something - and tell me about the "Moderate Muslim", again. Sorry - no offense to you intended, but reality trumps your Western logic and good intentions every time. I know your intentions are good, laudable even, but this is a hurdle that must be cleared to get to the next step: defending ourselves via every tool available, starting with profiling, closing our borders, throwing out the Wahhabi-funded Imams, throwing out every single Muslim that does not swear allegiance to the US, throwing out every Muslim that has given money or support of any kind to any "charity" found to actually be a conduit to terrorists, etc. There is a list a mile long that must be done to protect ourselves. We need to get the damned program moving, ASAP, and the Myth of the Moderate Muslim is the #1 obstacle to doing so. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-07-19 6:37:54 PM |
| #10 There must be a division between the harmless moderate muslims and the militant muslim extremists. It would be right to ban militants however stripping moderates of thier right to practice the religion of thier own choosing would be a step back in western civilization. |
| Posted by: John 2004-07-19 6:24:14 PM |
| #9 In a secularized western society religion is not analogous to race. It is a choice of belief, and therefore subject to critical examination. In the most extreme cases, as with Nazism and KuKluxKlan ideology, certain belief systems are excluded on the grounds that the harm to free principles would be greater if they were allowed to be exercised unhindered. Violent, racist, sexist, homophobic ideologies would fall into this category, expecially if they have a documented hisotry of using violence to advance these hateful ideas. An outright ban on Islam would be no more an abridgement of freedom than are the common-law bans on human sacrifice and ritual rape. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2004-07-19 6:12:09 PM |
| #8 Regardless of the past, Hulaas is saying spade = spade. Kudos! |
| Posted by: .com 2004-07-19 5:18:09 PM |
| #7 Matt the word Quisling comes from the role of a Norweigan traitor see:http://fundamentalbass.home.mindspring.com/x6625.htm |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-07-19 4:59:33 PM |
| #6 Interesting that this came out of the very pacifist Nordic region. Maybe others will actually listen rather than cry racist at the top of their lungs. We'll see. The future of Europe may depend on it. In some cases it may already be to late since Islam is there already and breeding. |
| Posted by: yank 2004-07-19 4:09:47 PM |
| #5 mhw, I don't understand. The Norwegians hung pretty tough in WWII in relation to their resources, e.g., the Norwegian destroyer Svenner being sunk by an e-boat on D-Day. |
| Posted by: Matt 2004-07-19 3:33:06 PM |
| #4 'Bout goddam time somebody did this. I hope it goes through. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-07-19 3:31:24 PM |
| #3 The freedom we have in Norway may be taken away from us if we do not start to have some demands to these immigrants." I always liked Scandinavia. |
| Posted by: jules 187 2004-07-19 3:16:16 PM |
| #2 overwhelmed by a sneak attack and saddled with a collborationist gov't; not glorious, but not as culpable as you imply. |
| Posted by: Anonymous5861 2004-07-19 3:02:26 PM |
| #1 A Norweigian citing WWII as a metaphor is interesting. Norway's role in this conflict was anything but glorious. |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-07-19 1:08:44 PM |