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Europe
Europe must take itself seriously, says top Brussels envoy
2004-07-30
Why? Nobody else does...
The European Union has to learn to take itself seriously before it can expect the United States to treat it as an equal, the outgoing EU ambassador to the US has warned. Speaking before the Foreign Affairs Committee in the European Parliament on Thursday, GÃŒnter Burghardt said that getting Washington to treat the 25-nation bloc as a partner "depends on how seriously we take ourselves" adding "that is something only we can manage".
No. It depends on what of any substance you actually do...
The German diplomat said that while there is an overall general will by the EU to "enter into a partnership of equals" it is undermined by the fact that some member states continue to accord bilateral interests more importance.
It's undermined by the fact that in a "partnership of equals" both sides have to be equal...
Refusing to comment on whether George W. Bush will be re-elected in November and what it would mean for transatlantic relations, Mr Burghardt said that, in 2005, the ties should be renewed anyway.
But if Bush wins it's going to cost Brussels more...
He said that the transatlantic agenda has not been updated since 1995 although since then the European Union has undergone its biggest enlargement ever and agreed a new Constitution. He says the Constitution will allow Europe to be taken more seriously as now the EU is represented by the head of the EU Presidency, the European Commission President and three foreign ministers - from the EU presidency at the time, Chris Patten (external relations commissioner) and Javier Solana (EU High Representative).
Prodi, Patten and Solana made a pretty forgettable team...
Under the new Constitution, Europe's foreign policy will be the domain of the new EU foreign minister.
Who will be allowed to be forgettable all by himself...
The ambassador, who is expected to be replaced later this year by a hockey puck former Irish prime minister John Bruton, does not deny that there are, and will continue to be, fundamental differences between the two sides. One of them is the two different attitudes to the "notion of sovereignty". The US sees its sovereignty as "unlimited" he said and this will not change whereas the EU is more about "joint sovereignty" and "multilateralism".
We have the perhaps mistaken idea that this is our country and we'll look out for our interests, if that's what you mean...
I dunno, the EU thought Saddam's sovereignty was pretty unlimited ...
The vast majority of the questions Mr Burghardt received from MEPs centred around the idea that Washington and the US President do not take Europe seriously and whether the ordinary American had any interest in Europe.
You mean other than the nude beaches? None I can think of...
By way of reply, he said there is still a huge amount of "good will" among Americans towards Europe. He added that the "extreme" neo-conservatives "are no longer setting the agenda" and that those people who spoke about new and old Europe (famously US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld) have "suddenly dried up".
Posted by:Super Hose

#25  
You cannot demand to be taken seriously and still act like a fool.
You can if you're a Dem or a dhimmi Euro, O.P.

They can demand it all they want, but serious people won't pay any attention to their whining.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2004-07-30 11:18:27 PM  

#24  I will take the EUropeans seriously when they display the intellectual integrity and acceptance of responsibility (both as a group and individually) at least on the level I expect of my minor children. You cannot shirk responsibility for past actions, current behavior, or words and deeds that have caused major catastrophies in dozens of different places around the world, and expect to be taken seriously. Such behavior is that of a spoiled child. Once Europe as a whole moves beyond childishness and assumes adult responsibilities, the rest of the world will begin to treat them like adults. You cannot demand to be taken seriously and still act like a fool.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2004-07-30 7:31:38 PM  

#23  rkb, what piffle!
Aris just wants to be right all the time when he never is.
And he will argue about anything and everything;
in this case, he actually tries to "get" Bulldog over the color of blue in the Bosnian flag.
Un-fricking-believable.
Sweet Dreams in the UK, Bulldog and you're right, plenty of people in the EU besides the British don't want that constitution (Didn't Denmark vote "No" last year or some other Scandinavian country?).
Posted by: GreatestJeneration   2004-07-30 7:14:57 PM  

#22  Okay, let me rephrase that, I don't remember *ever* talking to *anyone* in the Internet, who didn't want a constitution for the EU and was non-Brit.

I'm sure some exist, but the *vast majority* of the people who don't want an EU constitution seem to me to be Brits.

Communists excluded, but that's because they want the whole of EU, NATO and Western civilisation to perish, so them not wanting a consitution either is a given.

rkb> There's a difference between my friends (mostly Greeks and a couple Americans) and the people I've butted heads over political issues with (a large number throughout the world through the Internet).
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-07-30 7:11:28 PM  

#21  Bulldog, Aris may be telling the truth.

OTOH, his circle of acquaintances is fairly small and not necessarily representative of other countries. So while he rather implied he speaks for the continent, as he has himself admitted, he is not acquainted with anyone outside of his own, relatively small country.

No shame in that ... it just puts his comments in proper context, that's all.
Posted by: rkb   2004-07-30 7:07:21 PM  

#20  I've not known of anyone outside Britain that doesn't want a constitution for the EU

Oh come on, Aris!
Posted by: Bulldog   2004-07-30 6:47:09 PM  

#19  Aris, as you've said in comments here a few days ago that you really aren't acquainted with anyone outside of Greece, may I assume that your comment here is limited to the opinions of Greeks you know personally?
Posted by: rkb   2004-07-30 6:41:10 PM  

#18  Flamebait> I've not known of anyone outside Britain that doesn't want a constitution for the EU (regardless of whether we disagree on what should be in it), and I think that one of the reasons the Brits don't want one is probably because the United Kingdom doesn't have a constitution of its own either.
Posted by: Aris Katsaris   2004-07-30 6:36:36 PM  

#17  Bzzt.. they don't have a constutitiom yet, Plenty of folks in the EU don't even want one. Good luck, Larpo.
Posted by: FlameBait93268   2004-07-30 5:42:45 PM  

#16  Particularly not our world.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2004-07-30 5:16:22 PM  

#15  
The European Union has to learn to take itself seriously
Bzzzzzt. Euros take themselves far too seriously already.

Note to Europe: Contrary to your beliefs, the world does not revolve around you.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2004-07-30 5:13:38 PM  

#14  In a on-going debate I've been having elsewhere with an Irish moonbat socialist sourpuss (there, see, all of you now have an exact mental image!), I've noted that "my ancestors came to America to get away from your ancestors."

She doesn't like that much :-)
Posted by: Steve White   2004-07-30 1:14:13 PM  

#13  The European Union has to learn to take itself seriously before it can expect the United States to treat it as an equal, the outgoing EU ambassador to the US has warned.

Actually, the problem is that they DO take themselves seriously. A little TOO seriously, I might add, as in "too big for their britches" seriously.
Posted by: Bomb-a-rama   2004-07-30 1:08:30 PM  

#12  When my ancestors left France three hundred and fifty years ago it was a land of sullen, violent, ignorant peasants lorded over by a haughty, priviledged class of self-absorbed, arrogant, posturing dandies.

Dude, your family was lorded over by John Kerry's ancestors!! My condolences.
Posted by: Raj   2004-07-30 1:00:27 PM  

#11  Phew! Thanks, Carl. That must be why I put it in twice, once for each America.
Posted by: tu3031   2004-07-30 12:17:01 PM  

#10  tu, perhaps the article was referring to the second America John Edwards mentioned.
Posted by: Carl in N.H   2004-07-30 12:15:14 PM  

#9  See? I'm confused.
Posted by: tu3031   2004-07-30 11:28:36 AM  

#8  Is there another America around that I don't know about?
Posted by: tu3031   2004-07-30 11:28:09 AM  

#7  Is there another America around that I don't know about?
Posted by: tu3031   2004-07-30 11:27:09 AM  

#6  he said there is still a huge amount of "good will" among Americans towards Europe

Let's just say that we've achieved parity with our EUtopian friends, in terms of hatred. But really, EU, do you care? Why concern yourselves with the opinion of someone you despise?
Posted by: BH   2004-07-30 10:33:19 AM  

#5  "Most Americans are of European descent. Their forefathers left Europe because they didn't like it for one reason or another."

Bulls-eye.

When my ancestors left France three hundred and fifty years ago it was a land of sullen, violent, ignorant peasants lorded over by a haughty, priviledged class of self-absorbed, arrogant, posturing dandies.

And it would appear that not much has changed since then-- or at least, not enough to warrant going back.
Posted by: Dave D.   2004-07-30 10:30:55 AM  

#4  Most Americans are of European descent. Their forefathers left Europe because they didn't like it for one reason or another. They disliked it so much they were willing to come here and never go back. And now their offspring are going to have good will for Europe?

We spent the last century cleaning up the messes Europe made on the floor. They would be smart to find a corner, curl up in a ball and sleep for 100 years. Maybe then we'll be ready to take them out for a walk without the pinch collar.
Posted by: Mr. Davis   2004-07-30 10:13:55 AM  

#3  A few mistakes on his part. Yes, there is still a huge amount of "good will" among Americans toward *some* people in Europe. Specifically, some individuals and some countries. However, while you might find some Americans that love Germany, and some Americans that love France, there are a lot fewer that love *both* Germany and France, as an example.
Europe, as a whole, sucks. Americans detest the Roman or Napoleonic Law on the continent, and their overreaching bureaucrats. But most of all, Americans are optimistic, whereas Europeans are pessimistic. This simple difference means that we will never invite them to the party. Who wants a depressing, cynical sourpuss to make everybody feel bad and assure everyone that "it" is impossible and not worth the effort?
Russians and Americans have a future, however, in that Russians are optimists, too. Their sense of humor may be a little, uh, course, but I don't think that is much of a stumbling block.
Posted by: Anonymoose   2004-07-30 10:06:01 AM  

#2  ...the Constitution will allow Europe to be taken more seriously as now the EU is represented by the head of the EU Presidency, the European Commission President and three foreign ministers.

Their Constitution will not be the reason for Americans to take them seriously; getting their heads out of the clouds and eliminating their condescending attitudes would be a good place to start. They have a LOOOONG way to go to earn our trust back.
Posted by: jules 187   2004-07-30 10:01:59 AM  

#1  "...he said there is still a huge amount of "good will" among Americans towards Europe."

A "huge" amount? Only among chocolate-lovers and left-wing metrosexual sycophants. Among the rest, there is mostly annoyance.
Posted by: Dave D.   2004-07-30 9:26:39 AM  

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