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Iraq-Jordan
Jordan: Prince urges reforms in Muslim thinking
2004-08-22
Jordan's Crown Prince Hamzah on Saturday urged reforms in Muslim thinking and criticized Islamic extremism, but said such fanaticism resulted from injustices and oppression being suffered by Muslims.
"Nobody suffers like we do!"
Hamzah, a half brother of Jordan's King Abdullah II and heir to the throne, told 80 scholars from 40 countries attending a three-day conference here that the Muslim world was facing "successive pressures and challenges ... (that) extend to every corner of the (Islamic) nation's potential and its sacred shrines." Hamzah did not elaborate on the pressures Muslims were facing, saying only that fanaticism was caused by a "deprivation, oppression and absence of justice" that "provokes hatred."
It's caused by Koranic interpretation by prestigious clerics who stand to run things if Islam does manage to conquer the world...
The prince said the extremist Islamic behavior resulting from such pressure is, then, "taken as evidence to convict and blame Muslims on the false assumption that these are characteristics of their morals, principles and even religion."
If they do it in the name of their religion what the hell are we supposed to think?
"But the truth is that Islam and the Muslims reject and condemn these exceptional cases as strange to their true religion and as a form of transgression," he said.
"Not very loudly or often, of course..."
Following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States, many in the West cited a lack of freedoms and political and social oppression in the Muslim world for encouraging radical Islam and producing people like the 19 al-Qaida Islamic extremists who hijacked passenger planes and crashed them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
Ummm... Yeah. That makes sense. You're living under political and social oppression, so you find a country where both are minimal and declare war on it. I don't think it was Arabs who invented logic, though I could be mistaken...
In the Middle East, many Arabs and Muslims blamed Washington's support of Israel in its conflict with the Palestinians and the presence of U.S. forces in the region as catalysts for anti-Western hatred.
"The fact that American forces were in the area as a result of saving one Arab country from oppression by another is beside the point..."
Many Islamic states and leaders have condemned acts of terrorism carried out in the name of Islam and supported the U.S.-led war on terror, but at the same time accused Western countries of comparing the entire Muslim world with militant extremists like Osama bin Laden. "Extremism has destroyed, throughout history, remarkable achievements in great civilizations, including our Islamic civilization," he said. "When hatred is dominant and hearts are closed, and when people do not resort to the rulings of Sharia (Islamic law) and reason, the tree of civilization withers away and societies cease to grow." Hamzah also blamed the media for "weakening the Muslim's energy and soul," and suggested that educational reform could remedy extremism and inform the masses of Islam's true meaning. "The road to proper education is rough and formative work requires a pure, protective atmosphere where sprouts are grown in suitable conditions," he said. "This protective atmosphere is provided by the family as well as the entire society."
I recommend against establishing madrassahs...
He urged scholars to take steps toward "self actualization" and said the image of Muslims abroad "cannot be rectified unless we address the imbalance we suffer from inside ourselves."
Not sure he should recommend self-actualization to the scholars, since lately that tends to mean making oneself shahid via premature explodulation.
Hamzah is the president of the board of trustees of the conference host, the Aal al-Bayt Foundation for Islamic Thought, which is dedicated to discussing challenges facing Islam, including extremism, and democracy in the Muslim world.
Posted by:Fred

#33  Gentle is certainly a glutton for punishment, in addition to all the other observed aspects. Too weird.
Posted by: .com   2004-08-22 6:48:47 PM  

#32  Oh, BTW, is a pillow better than a screaming run down the path to the pool? Just curious.
Posted by: Shipman   2004-08-22 6:13:54 PM  

#31  Go Lucky! Go TGA!
A weird and deadly tag-team indeed!
Posted by: Shipman   2004-08-22 6:11:45 PM  

#30  Gentle, if you can, read up on your Sharia laws.
If a girl accuses a man of rape, she must produce 4 witnesses, or she is punished.

It happens all the times. Don't close your eyes.
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 4:46:37 PM  

#29  No Gentle, the ugliest crime on earth is defying the prophet. That could get you killed. You should know that. Your treading pretty close to apostasy.

Lots of ugly crimes Gentle. Child abuse, leading children to do murder in gods name, killing in the name of god. To name a few.
Posted by: Lucky   2004-08-22 4:41:17 PM  

#28  That is not right.
God, I'm tired.
Rape is the ugliest crime in the whole world, and you think that Islam would let the person off the hook?
Four witnesses are needed if a woman is accused of having an affiar, otherwise nothing can be done against her, and her accusers are punished.
See? The truth is diffrent.
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 4:30:58 PM  

#27  Gentle, the Iranian Supreme Court authorized it. Should all these judges hang?

And why can't you understand that we don't want to blow up the Gulf? We want these things to stop because you Muslims obviously can't or won't. Is that so bad?

Do you think Sharia is just? Do you think it's just that a couple engages in premarital sex, the boy gets 100 lashes and the girl is hanged?
Do you think it's fair that a girl needs 4 witnesses to be able to get her rapist convicted? (If she ever dares to bring it to court in the first place).

This Gentle, is what happens when you return to those pure values of Islam that the Wahabis and the Mullahs are touting.
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 4:27:48 PM  

#26  Sorry. I don't agree with you.
She is a child!
And even if she were a grown up, she should NEVER have been killed.

I bet you rejoiced over the article:
Another reason with which to convince yourself that those people really need your help.
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 4:26:28 PM  

#25  No Gentle, seems to me she got what she deserved. She brought shame on islam, the prophet, the judge, her father, the ummah, allah himself. Nope she's dead, by god, and a lesson learned by all.

Posted by: Lucky   2004-08-22 4:21:58 PM  

#24  Yes I would, please.
I posted an article that will explain all this.
Just know:
If the story is true, then the judge should be punished for murder.
That is according to us muslims of course. I wouldn't know about you guys, since you threaten to blow up the Gulf every time you get angry at me.
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 4:08:35 PM  

#23  "On Sunday August 15, 2004, a 16 year old girl by the name of Atefe Rajabi, daughter of Ghassem Rajabi, was executed in the town of Neka, located in the province of Mazandaran, for “engaging in acts incompatible with chastity”. The execution was carried out by the order of Neka’s “judicial administrator” and was approved by both the Supreme Court of the Islamic Republic and the chief of the nation’s “judiciary branch.”

Although according to her birth certificate she was only 16 years old, the local court falsely claimed that she was 22.

Three months ago, during her appearance before the local court, fiercely angry the young girl hurled insults at the local judge, Haji Reza, who is also the chief judicial administrator of the city, and it is said as another expression of protest took off some of her clothes in the courtroom. This act by the young girl made the administrator so furious that he evaluated her file personally and in less than three months received a go-ahead from the Islamic Republic’s Supreme Court for her execution. The animosity and anger of Haji Reza was so strong that he personally put the rope around the girl’s delicate neck and personally gave the signal to the crane operator, by raising his hand, to begin pulling the rope.

It may be noted that although according to the Islamic Republic’s own penal laws the presence of an attorney for the defense [is supposed to be] mandatory, regardless of the defendant’s ability to afford one, nevertheless the girl remained without an attorney. Her unfortunate father, while tears poured from his eyes, went about the city beseeching the townspeople for money to hire an attorney who in the least would provide his daughter with a line of defense.

The young girl was buried the same day after her execution but during that same night her corpse was disinterred by unknown individuals and robbed. The theft remains unexplained and the Rajabi family has filed a complaint.

The 16 year old girl’s male companion, who had been arrested as well, received 100 lashes and, after the Islamic punishment was carried out, released."

Like to comment on that Gentle?
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 4:02:10 PM  

#22  So What?
It is exactly 11:56 p.m.
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 3:56:02 PM  

#21  Btw isn't it a bit late already in Dubai? Must be past midnight?
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 3:50:58 PM  

#20  Gentle, you sweet thing! :-)
It was just their way to pronounce the German "gut" (good).

I don't think I misunderstood their reasons for believing that but I don't want to shock your sweet tender innocent heart with it.
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 3:49:47 PM  

#19  You poor thing.
They weren't being nice, they were telling you they hate him.
I don't think many arabs at that time realized that "gutt' could indicate bravery.
Too slangish.
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 3:37:00 PM  

#18  Mucky, you charmer :-)
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 3:26:12 PM  

#17  hiya gentle! :)
goodn see ya here again. what are you think of em shooting team you country is have? they are get the first gold.
Posted by: muck4doo   2004-08-22 3:23:53 PM  

#16  One of the most embarrassing moments when traveling in Muslim countries was that often people patted me on my shoulders saying: "HITLER GUTT"

In the 70s many weren't even aware that he was dead. I spare you the answer to my question why they thought that Hitler was "gutt"

Not all Muslims, ok. But a lot. Including in the Emirates.
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 3:23:52 PM  

#15  I have posted an article that should answer you.

Ernest B. :
Are you completley and totally out of your mind?
Saying that muslims love Hitler is like saying a mouse is a preditor!
Muslims hate Hitler. You think that as he killed the jews, muslims would go along with that?
He killed innocents, women, children.
He even killed the elderly and hanicapped.
how sick is that.
Oh and a news flash:
He was not a muslim.
What he did is more terrible, more horrific than anyone could imagine.
If you want someone who is against Islam in every way. The exact opposite of a true muslim; look at Hitler.

P.S.
I'm not Anti-war.
Deah!
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 3:02:09 PM  

#14  You're wasting your time, Gentle is Antiwar. There will be no attempt to debate. I would hate to see anyone waste braincells on this one.
Posted by: whitecollar redneck   2004-08-22 2:38:30 PM  

#13  Maybe Gentle, if you are what you say, YOU should see some threat to you: (found via LGF)

"On Sunday, August 15, a 16-year-old girl in the town of Neka, northern Iran, was executed. Ateqeh Sahaleh was hanged in public on Simetry Street off Rah Ahan Street at the city center.
The sentence was issued by the head of Neka’s Justice Department and subsequently upheld by the mullahs’ Supreme Court and carried out with the approval of Judiciary Chief Mahmoud Shahroudi.

In her summary trial, the teenage victim did not have any lawyer and efforts by her family to recruit a lawyer was to no avail. Ateqeh personally defended herself. She told the religious judge, Haji Rezaii, that he should punish the main perpetrators of moral corruption not the victims.
The judge personally pursued Ateqeh’s death sentence, beyond all normal procedures and finally gained the approval of the Supreme Court. After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her “sharp tongue”.
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 1:58:23 PM  

#12  such fanaticism resulted from injustices and oppression being suffered by Muslims.

Playing the victim card once again. Methinks the whole freakin' deck is full of 'em...

If Gentle can't equate 'declaration of war' = 'threat', I suggest some coursework at the Aal al-Bayt Foundation for Islamic Thought, heh.
Posted by: Raj   2004-08-22 1:34:53 PM  

#11  Gentle, you might want to tread very lightly with the word "fascist" here.

Very lightly.
Posted by: True German Ally   2004-08-22 12:35:35 PM  

#10  "WHY did you see muslims as a threat to you?"

Because they say they are, and back it up with things like 9/11 and 3/11. As for fascism, Adolf Hitler has been a bestselling author among Arab Muslims for years. Egypt just did an entire big-budget miniseries based on the anti-Semetic forgery THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, spiritual father of the PLO, was an ardent supporter of the Nazis and a friend to Hitler...


...and the beat goes on.
Posted by: Ernest Brown   2004-08-22 12:31:42 PM  

#9  Offed any patients today Gentle?
Posted by: Shipman   2004-08-22 11:28:22 AM  

#8  Buy your own clues.

WHY did you see muslims as a threat to you?

And does the word "fascists" mean anything to you?
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 11:01:37 AM  

#7  Gentle, if you follow the news, especially on RB, you will learn that Islamofascists have declared WAR on us (i.e. the West). Get a quarter, buy a clue.
Posted by: Brett_the_Quarkian   2004-08-22 10:58:29 AM  

#6  Why on earth do you see muslims as a threat to you?
Posted by: Gentle   2004-08-22 10:54:11 AM  

#5  "...the Aal al-Bayt Foundation for Islamic Thought, which is dedicated to discussing challenges facing Islam, including extremism, and democracy in the Muslim world."

They must do a heck of alot of discussing then...
Posted by: Ol_Dirty_American   2004-08-22 9:18:10 AM  

#4  The Foundation for Islamic THOUGHT??!!
Posted by: Bryan   2004-08-22 6:43:20 AM  

#3  They still haven't figured out the one most important basic fact - that 99.83546% of all Muslim "repression" is at the hands of OTHER Muslims. Until they understand that, nothing will change, nothing will "improve", and they'll continue to wander in circles, kinda like the Jews did for 40 years in the Wilderness, until all of the old folks who still remembered Egypt died off. Unfortunately, I don't see the Muslims getting a clue any time soon. It would take some place like Qom getting smacked with another iron meteorite before anything could POSSIBLY change.
Posted by: Old Patriot   2004-08-22 6:04:41 AM  

#2  It's as if something is puzzling the prince. Something he can't quit put a finger on. But he knows something smells fishy, a little fecal.
Posted by: Lucky   2004-08-22 1:16:02 AM  

#1  Yo, Kingy Thingy, Clues on eBay - cheeeep. Moron.
Posted by: .com   2004-08-22 12:23:06 AM  

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