| Submit your comments on this article |
| Home Front: Politix |
| O'Neill Taped By Nixon |
| 2004-08-26 |
| Swift boat author tells Nixon he was in Cambodia, later clarifies statement The chief critic of John Kerry's military record told President Nixon in 1971 that he had been in Cambodia in a swift boat during the Vietnam War -- a claim at odds with his recent statements that he was not. "I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border," said John E. O'Neill in a conversation that was taped by the former president's secret recording system. The tape is stored at the National Archives in College Park, Md. In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O'Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia. "I think I made it very clear that I was on the border, which is exactly where I was for three months. I was about 100 yards from Cambodia," O'Neill said in clarifying the June 16, 1971, conversation with Nixon. OK. So O'Neill was in, near, besides, whatever of Cambodia. Even though I am queasy about "clarifications", O'Neill never said anything about lucky hats, Rescuing Dogs from BBQs, or delivery of CIA guys. And, it took ol' Nixons Watergate tapes to even find ANY statement by O'Neill about Cambodia. Now what? |
| Posted by:BigEd |
| #38 Realclearpolitics.com has a great oped called Acquiring Purple Hearts by a doc who served in Vietnam. |
| Posted by: AF Lady 2004-08-26 9:46:36 PM |
| #37 Kerry's records are available to find. Facsimiles of Kerry's Purple Heart citations are available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/kerry/purplehearts.pdf Facsimiles of Kerry's bronze and silver star citations are available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/kerry/stars.pdf Facsimiles of reports describing Kerry's wounds are available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/kerry/actionreports.pdf Cybersarge can maybe give more info on this, but I have seen on other sites where his DD214 shows the silver star with a V and that this is never done as it would be redundant. He has also had the citation redone twice with each reissuance the language changing and more glowing and signed by higher ranking individuals. |
| Posted by: AF Lady 2004-08-26 9:01:03 PM |
| #36 Since air-superiority wasn't a big problem in that war, it got redeployed back. Yes, four years after Bush joined the TANG. When he joined, they were still active. See, Bush served FIVE YEARS in the Guard. He finished his fifth year early to go to Harvard Business School, but he had accumulated all the required points. http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/york200408261025.asp |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-08-26 8:29:08 PM |
| #35 #33 The F102 was already in Vietnam at the time of Bush Joining up. Since air-superiority wasn't a big problem in that war, it got redeployed back. |
| Posted by: Anonymous4021 2004-08-26 6:48:15 PM |
| #34 The Cambodia Incursion happened in 1970. That's the relevant point. Kerry was saying he was in Cambodia in '68. SEARED.... SEARED. |
| Posted by: Anonymous4021 2004-08-26 6:45:53 PM |
| #33 RelevantTopic, By his own admission (circa 1986) Kerry said he requested Swiftboat duty because at the time, the Swiftboats were assigned to coastal duty – far from danger. Bush joined an F-102 unit that was being groomed for Vietnam and he requested to go there. After getting their chosen slots, both had their missions changed on them. The Swiftboats were reassigned to river patrol and the F-102’s were reassigned to mainland defense. One asked for safe duty and was sent in harm’s way. The other asked to serve on the front line and was kept home. I’m sorry if their karma ran over your dogma, but that’s just the way it came down. |
| Posted by: Tobacconist 2004-08-26 6:31:59 PM |
| #32 Well RB is in the middle of a troll flyway. Between now and November I expect to count 50 different species. I should consult with Mike but the last one closely resembled an older Washington State Border Crosser. I believe in autumn phase with falling hair. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-08-26 5:09:39 PM |
| #31 [MLK] said that he simply could not adjust to a world sharply divided between the hardworking many and the privileged few. He could not accept an America where discrimination and bigotry still held citizens down. He had not been able to get comfortable with a society that had become complacent in the face of human hardship and suffering. I remember well April, 1968 - I was serving in Vietnam—a place of violence -- when the news reports brought home to me and my crewmates the violence back home - and the tragic news that one of the bullets flying that terrible spring took the life of that unabashedly maladjusted citizen. When did he go to Viet Nam? (hat tip: Taranto) |
| Posted by: Rawsnacks 2004-08-26 4:17:24 PM |
| #30 We were sent to Vietnam to kill Communism. But we found instead that we were killing women and children. We knew the saying "War is hell" and we knew also that wars take their toll in civilian casualties. In Vietnam, though, the "greatest soldiers in the world," better armed and better equipped than the opposition, unleashed the power of the greatest technology in the world against thatch huts and mud paths. In the process we created a nation of refugees, bomb craters, amputees, orphans, widows, and prostitutes, and we gave new meaning to the words of the Roman historian Tacitus: "Where they made a desert they called it peace." -John Kerry / from the Epilogue of The New Soldier How About the VietCong or N Vietnam point of view: We were sent to the South to kill Capitalism. But we found instead that we were facing the American Military. We knew the saying "War is hell" and we knew also that civilian casualties are just the cost of the Marxist revolution. In Vietnam, though, the American Military, better armed and better equipped than we were, unleashed the power of the greatest technology in the world on our poorly equipped forces. In the process of fighting them, we created a nation of refugees, bomb craters, amputees, orphans, widows, and prostitutes, and if we were to win, we knew we had to create many more useful idiots like John Kerry and Jane Fonda." |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-08-26 3:50:58 PM |
| #29 This is just a bs slam piece from Kerry apologist "journalists". A sure sign of desperation. |
| Posted by: Capt America 2004-08-26 3:35:45 PM |
| #28 Hmmm. Troll go bye-bye. |
| Posted by: Chris W. 2004-08-26 3:20:08 PM |
| #27 Kerry just waited until he found a doctor who would. *chuckle* Isn't that the wicked "doctor shopping"? Or is it not bad when a Northeastern liberal does it? |
| Posted by: eLarson 2004-08-26 3:15:44 PM |
| #26 I was reading through the site WinterSoldier.com and their claims of debunking Kerry's claims were very vague. Almost like...they can't really prove nor deny that it happened! Thats it exactly! Give the person a Cigar! They cant prove if it happened or not (every try to prove a negative?). However they can prove that some of the testamony was fraudulant: The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service, are interesting and revealing. Many of the veterans, though assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities. A black Marine who agreed to be interviewed was unable to provide details of the outrages he had described at the hearing, but he called the Vietnam War "one huge atrocity" and "a racist plot." He admitted that the question of atrocities had not occurred to him while he was in Vietnam, and that he had been assisted in the preparation of his testimony by a member of the Nation of Islam. But the most damaging finding consisted of the sworn statements of several veterans, corroborated by witnesses, that they had in fact not attended the hearing in Detroit. One of them had never been to Detroit in all his life. He did not know, he stated, who might have used his name. Incidents similar to some of those described at the VVAW hearing undoubtedly did occur. We know that hamlets were destroyed, prisoners tortured, and corpses mutilated. Yet these incidents either (as in the destruction of hamlets) did not violate the law of war or took place in breach of existing regulations. In either case, they were not, as alleged, part of a "criminal policy." The VVAW's use of fake witnesses and the failure to cooperate with military authorities and to provide crucial details of the incidents further cast serious doubt on the professed desire to serve the causes of justice and humanity. It is more likely that this inquiry, like others earlier and later, had primarily political motives and goals. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-08-26 2:11:32 PM |
| #25 RelevantTopic said: You say that Kerry lied about getting his medals. Larry Thurlow also claims that Kerry lied about getting the Bronze Star because they weren't under enemy fire. Yet, he got a bronze star for the incident. Thurlow also claims that Kerry wrote up the report for him to receive a bronze star for the incident, yet what was in the report Kerry couldn't have known about because he was farther upstream and THEN came back! On top of that, Thurlow can't even prove who wrote the report for him getting a Bronze Star! You also claim slander, yet there were WAR CRIMES COMMITTED! So what's the slander? That Kerry is saying that these guys are lying about what they said? I said nothing of the sort. Please refrain from putting words into my mouth. I personally am willing to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt and believe him at his word that ALL medals and commendations etc. were rightfully earned. Fine by me. But, like I said, It is his dispicable hypocrisy, lies, and slander toward his fellow soldiers after the war that makes so many Vets ate (sic, I meant "hate" of course) his guts. |
| Posted by: Chris W. 2004-08-26 2:05:44 PM |
| #24 Well said RC. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-08-26 2:04:23 PM |
| #23 "Relevant" -- Bush went to war to carry out the policy Clinton turned into US law. And oddly enough, Kerry supported that policy until Dean started to win the Democrat primaries. If we're losing the war, it's because of the Democrats, not because of Bush. The Democrats are determined to turn this war into their "glory days" of Vietnam, when they forced the US into a lost war. You also claim slander, yet there were WAR CRIMES COMMITTED! So what's the slander? That Kerry is saying that these guys are lying about what they said? Yet more evidence that the primary requirement for supporting Kerry is ignorance. Kerry said millions of American soldiers commited war crimes in Vietnam. Yes, there were some real war crimes committed -- and they were found, investigated, and punished. But that doesn't make Kerry's of millions true. Kerry spread Soviet propaganda during his VVAW days. He spread lies fed to him by people who had never been to Vietnam, some who had never been in uniform. His words were used against men who were held captive by the North Vietnamese; his words were used to threaten them with death for committing the war crimes Kerry lied about. Kerry was a leader in the "protest" movement that convinced the US we weren't winning -- couldn't win -- Vietnam. His efforts ended with millions dead in Cambodia and Vietnam and the permanent weakening of the United States. Kerry was a tool of our enemies in the last war, a willing tool, a useful idiot. Kerry spent his years in the Senate -- the years he won't talk about -- voting against every attempt to modernize the US military. He wanted to cut the CIA funding, even after the 1993 WTC attack. He worked against efforts to contain Soviet expansion in the Western hemisphere -- it was during his efforts to defend the Sandinistas that he made up his "seared, seared" memory of Christmas in Cambodia. His "experience" in overseeing the intelligence services consists of being on a committee that, apparently, he ignored more than he attended. That didn't stop his campaign from falsely claiming he had been chairman. Kerry's political career was started by the lies he told in 1971, and boosted by the lies he's told ever since. Finally, his lies are being exposed, and he's getting nasty. Kerry's campaign sent letters to TV stations, threatening them with legal actions if they aired the Swift Vet ads. Kerry's campaign tried to get Regnery to stop publishing "Unfit for Command". Kerry's campaign has recently been passing around "brown books" containing smears against the Swift Vets. Kerry's campaign won't do the one thing that will settle the question, though: they haven't released all of Kerry's military records. Or, for that matter, let the public see the journal he kept during Vietnam. Kerry appears to be afraid of what's in his own military records, so instead he's been heaping more abuse on the same men he accused of atrocities 33 years ago. And all the while he's been claiming to be the victim. Kerry's a moral coward. Not a physical coward, but a moral one -- he's unwilling to confront the enormity of the harm he did when he was in VVAW. He's also an intellectual coward -- he's unwilling to deal with the FACTS of the Swift Vet's claims, preferring to smear them and throw up clouds of smoke to confuse the issue. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-08-26 2:00:13 PM |
| #22 RT, check yourself you BOOB! Kerry signed off his own medals. The ORIGINAL doctor REFUSED to sign off his request for a PH. Kerry just waited until he found a doctor who would. NOW Kerry’s own people say that the wound was self inflicted. YOU DON’T GET PH MEDALS FOR HURTING YOURSELF. If that was true I would look like a South American Dictator in my uniform. Chasing down a teenager that had ALREADY been shot by a 50cal Machine Gun fire is not brave it’s USELESS. Ask any gunner on a fifty what it does to the human body. If you get hit in the hand, it will most likely take your entire arm off. The boy was dead or near dead by the time blood and guts Kerry shot him. Not exactly Audie Murphy storyline that Kerry spouts. I won’t even go into that ‘Me and my dog story’ it’s too comical. You can try and minimize Presidents Bush’s service in the guard but I’ll bet you never piloted an F-102 in the dark over water. It’s really is not a Nintendo game and requires a lot of training and proficiency. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2004-08-26 1:58:44 PM |
| #21 Personal anecdote re: above post How did I forget this one? I worked for a couple of c*nts who owned a CPA firm in Worcester who bragged about them receiving 'federal monies' because of their 'special status'. I think they'd have fellated the esteemed Senator ala Nina Totenberg if given the chance. HUGE freakin' libs (one quite literally!). I quit on the third day, faxed my resignation letter to them. To be polite, I got the classic bait & switch - here I am, just having passed the freakin' CPA Exam, and they were trying to send me out to Western Pennsylvania to be the lead auditor on some Federal (FDIC or some such) audits. Fed requirements call for 2 years in a supervisory position for that job; I believe I had like three weeks experience and during the interviews I expressed no desire whatsoever at travel, especially on that phat salary of $25K per annum. Filed a HUGE complaint to the Mass. Society of CPA's, the state Board and the FDIC. And that, folks is why public accounting SUCKS (unless you're a partner). |
| Posted by: Raj 2004-08-26 1:45:19 PM |
| #20 This so called later clarification came in the very next sentence wow. It's fun to watching the MSM totally self-destruct like this. |
| Posted by: anon chick 2004-08-26 1:43:06 PM |
| #19 Kerry's records are available to find. Facsimiles of Kerry's Purple Heart citations are available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/kerry/purplehearts.pdf Facsimiles of Kerry's bronze and silver star citations are available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/kerry/stars.pdf Facsimiles of reports describing Kerry's wounds are available at: http://wid.ap.org/documents/kerry/actionreports.pdf |
| Posted by: RelevantTopic 2004-08-26 1:39:25 PM |
| #18 Hey all - since I put this up at abput 8:30 PDT, I have been watching to see who would pick it up. as of 10:30 PDT, no one has touched neither any of the four members of the the "CABAL" nor Fox! And, Drudge (where I saw it first) has taken it off his site. No headlines on the NY Times or Wash Post either. I thought they would drool and foam at the mouth over this! Is this odd? |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-08-26 1:38:26 PM |
| #17 Kerry first sought a STUDENT DEFERRAL so he could study in Paris but was denied. This is irrelevant because he volunteered for fighting in the war. I was reading through the site WinterSoldier.com and their claims of debunking Kerry's claims were very vague. Almost like...they can't really prove nor deny that it happened! |
| Posted by: RelevantTopic 2004-08-26 1:37:55 PM |
| #16 This so called later clarification came in the very next sentence. Not 35 years later. This was a conversation. He spoke. Then quickly clarified. So where are Kerry's records that will clear everything up? |
| Posted by: GK 2004-08-26 1:31:47 PM |
| #15 3)Do you know what the three bills were? They were of such insignificance I'd be embarassed if I was Kerry (apologies in advance - this isn't my ALL CAPS): TWO FOR FISH, AND ONE FOR FEDERAL HANDOUTS TO WOMEN-OWNED BUSINESSES. JOHN KERRY IS UNDOUBTEDLY THE LEAST ACCOMPLISHED CANDIDATE TO EVER DECLARE FOR NATIONAL OFFICE. Amen to that, brother! The fish bills - one of them was to prop up the Gloucester (MA) fisherman = typical pork barrel stuff. He's got nothing on Robert 'KKK' Byrd. |
| Posted by: Raj 2004-08-26 1:29:19 PM |
| #14 RT: 1) Kerry put himself in for his purple heart (The PH was one where you could put yourself up for one). At least for his 1st his CO refused to do it. 2) Kerry first sought a STUDENT DEFERRAL so he could study in Paris but was denied. He was ANTI-WAR when he was going to Yale - even gave an anti-war speech. However he did serve so he deserves honor for that. But I dont think he was a 'decorated war hero' as he has proclaimed from the rooftops ever since. And he dishonored his service by his activities after the war. Note also this Kerry's testamony before Congress was investigated and found to have been based on fraudulent 'testamony' at the Winter Soldier (An 'investigation' staged by Kerry and the 'Vietnam Vetrans against the War' where many of the witnesses were either never in Vietnam (and could never have seen what they claimed) or were imposters - falsely claiming they were people who had been in Vietnam.) I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide if Kerry knew beforehand that the testamony he was giving to Congress was based on lies or not. I'm sure some war crimes were comitted (like Kerry and his Zippo lighter :) but it was rare and not as widespread and known and condoned at all levels as Kerry claims. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-08-26 1:27:34 PM |
| #13 "...while overlooking the gaping hole in Kerry's story." You're a lot more generous / diplomatic that I'd have been with that characterization, ZF. |
| Posted by: Raj 2004-08-26 1:21:27 PM |
| #12 Finally, "Relevant", did you support Bush '41 or Dole over Clinton? If not, why not? I supported Clinton in 92 and 96. I believe in their social and economic policies, that's why I didn't support Bush 41 or Dole. The story is different in 2004 because Bush went to war last year under pretenses that we can't prove (WMDs). We are fighting a war...it's called the War on Terror. It's one that Bush is loosing. Sure, we've won battles against them; we've killed or captured major leaders in Al-Qaeda. But OBL is still out there, and we let Mullah Omar escape from us 2 TIMES and we havent found him since. And, as usual, trolls like RelevantTopic fail to understand the issue. Kerry's service is and was honorable in the fact that he was a volunteer and served the nation. It is his dispicable hypocrisy, lies, and slander toward his fellow soldiers after the war that makes so many Vets ate his guts. You say that Kerry lied about getting his medals. Larry Thurlow also claims that Kerry lied about getting the Bronze Star because they weren't under enemy fire. Yet, he got a bronze star for the incident. Thurlow also claims that Kerry wrote up the report for him to receive a bronze star for the incident, yet what was in the report Kerry couldn't have known about because he was farther upstream and THEN came back! On top of that, Thurlow can't even prove who wrote the report for him getting a Bronze Star! You also claim slander, yet there were WAR CRIMES COMMITTED! So what's the slander? That Kerry is saying that these guys are lying about what they said? |
| Posted by: RelevantTopic 2004-08-26 1:19:29 PM |
| #11 Anyone patrolling the border is likely to cross over and back many times, like Zhang Fei said. It's not like there is/was a barbed-wire fence at the border of Cambodia. And, as usual, trolls like RelevantTopic fail to understand the issue. Kerry's service is and was honorable in the fact that he was a volunteer and served the nation. It is his dispicable hypocrisy, lies, and slander toward his fellow soldiers after the war that makes so many Vets ate his guts. |
| Posted by: Chris W. 2004-08-26 1:05:34 PM |
| #10 1)If the wound was self-inflicted, why did he recieve a purple heart He lied about it, and kept pressuring his commanders until he got it. In fact, I think it's documented that he was at first turned down for the Purple Heart. 2)Seemingly small acts of questionable bravery HE VOLUNTEERED TO GO TO WAR IN VIETNAM...unlike the President, he fought in war. Bush also volunteered -- he asked to be in a unit that already had people stationed in Vietnam. And while Kerry was shot at, Bush was sitting in the middle of hundreds of gallons of aviation fuel, in a plane that killed some of his fellow pilots. Finally, "Relevant", did you support Bush '41 or Dole over Clinton? If not, why not? |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-08-26 1:04:13 PM |
| #9 Why would O'Neill tell people he wasn't in Cambodia then? |
| Posted by: RelevantTopic 2004-08-26 1:01:16 PM |
| #8 O'Neill took over Kerry's boat after Kerry left, so whether or not HE was in Cambodia doesn't mean crap for whether Kerry was or not. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-08-26 12:58:03 PM |
| #7 With all the daggers the Dems are throwig out there they are likely to hit a target once. That being said I find Mr. O'Neills story a whole lot more truthful that John 'Rambo' Kerry. So far he has been caught in three separate lies: 1) His first Purple heart was self-inflicted, 2) He was not a taxi for the CIA and, 3) There was no pooch named VC on his boat. Add to that he collected medals quicker that Mark Spitz at Munich for seemingly small acts of questionable bravery. Finally factor in his Anti-War days and his coma-like Senate tenure (19 years and 3 bills). This man is no where near qualified to run a lemonade stand let alone this country. 1)If the wound was self-inflicted, why did he recieve a purple heart 2)Seemingly small acts of questionable bravery HE VOLUNTEERED TO GO TO WAR IN VIETNAM...unlike the President, he fought in war. 3)Do you know what the three bills were? |
| Posted by: RelevantTopic 2004-08-26 12:55:33 PM |
| #6 With all the daggers the Dems are throwig out there they are likely to hit a target once. That being said I find Mr. O'Neills story a whole lot more truthful that John 'Rambo' Kerry. So far he has been caught in three separate lies: 1) His first Purple heart was self-inflicted, 2) He was not a taxi for the CIA and, 3) There was no pooch named VC on his boat. Add to that he collected medals quicker that Mark Spitz at Munich for seemingly small acts of questionable bravery. Finally factor in his Anti-War days and his coma-like Senate tenure (19 years and 3 bills). This man is no where near qualified to run a lemonade stand let alone this country. |
| Posted by: Cyber Sarge 2004-08-26 12:44:58 PM |
| #5 Extreme irony, using the hated Nixon's tapes to try to discredit the newly hated O'Neill. At any rate, it's well and good that O'Neill isn't a candidate. |
| Posted by: eLarson 2004-08-26 11:58:13 AM |
| #4 BigEd: We need to be up front with a situation on our side that on the surface, at least, looks bad. Thanks for the heads up. The article is a standard AP news wire article headlined to play up a minor discrepancy in O'Neill's story while overlooking the gaping hole in Kerry's story. Typical AP hatchet job. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-08-26 11:55:59 AM |
| #3 ZF : You and I are on the same side as this. I put this out there because I would rather have it come from someone predisposed to O'Neill's side of the story. We need to be up front with a situation on our side that on the surface, at least, looks bad. |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-08-26 11:50:48 AM |
| #2 ZF: Another observation made this morning in my coffee club...those boats (swift boats) are supposedly loud as h#ll! According to some vets, you could hear them a mile and a half away. Not exactly the type boat used to insert Spec Ops, eh? I've never seen one, but I'm sure some other RBers can verify how noisy they are. |
| Posted by: BA 2004-08-26 11:44:47 AM |
| #1 BigEd: Even though I am queasy about "clarifications", O’Neill never said anything about lucky hats, Rescuing Dogs from BBQs, or delivery of CIA guys. When you're posted 100 yards from the border, hot pursuit operations pretty much guarantee that you will occasionally cross the boundary. Kerry was 50 miles away. No comparison at all. Note also that Kerry was talking about inserting Special Forces using Swift boats. O'Neill was just patrolling. Like I said, night and day. Night. And. Day. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-08-26 11:39:36 AM |