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| Iraq-Jordan |
| Turkey reacts with fury to massive US assault on northern Iraqi city |
| 2004-09-13 |
| The US military assault on Tal Afar, an ethnically Turkmen city in northern Iraq, has provoked a furious reaction from the Turkish government which is demanding the US call off the attack. American and Iraqi government forces last week sealed off Tal Afar, a city west of Mosul belonging to Iraq's embattled Turkmen minority. The US said it killed 67 insurgents while a Turkmen leader claims 60 civilians were killed and 100 wounded. The massive and indiscriminate use of US firepower in built-up areas, leading to heavy civilian casualties in cities like Tal Afar, Fallujah and Najaf, is coming under increasing criticism in Iraq. The US "came into Iraq like an elephant astride its war machine," said Ibrahim Jaafari, the influential Iraqi Vice President. The Americans claim that Tal Afar is a hub for militants smuggling fighters and arms into Iraq from nearby Syria. Turkish officials make clear in private they believe that the Kurds, the main ally of the US in northern Iraq, have managed to get US troops involved on their side in the simmering ethnic conflict between Kurds and Turkmen. "The Iraqi government forces with the Americans are mainly Kurdish," complained one Turkmen source. A Turkish official simply referred to the Iraqi military units involved in the attack on Tal Afar as "peshmerga", the name traditionally given to Kurdish fighters. The US army account of its aims in besieging Tal Afar is largely at odds with that given by Turkmen and may indicate that its officers are at sea in the complex ethnic mosaic of Iraq. The US says that in recent weeks the city was taken over by anti-American militants who repeatedly attacked US and Iraqi government forces. "Tal Afar is a tribal city and its people were not patient with the presence of American forces," said Farouq Abdullah Abdul Rahman, the president of the Iraqi Turkmen Front, in Baghdad yesterday. He agreed that there was friction with US forces but denied that anything justified the siege, with many Turkmen close to the front line fleeing into the countryside. "More than 60 people have been killed, including women and children, and 100 wounded." |
| Posted by:tipper |
| #62 Fred, just for the record, are you double-posting my messages with a malicious intent? UFO's home page -- http://politicsandcurrentevents.com |
| Posted by: UFO 2004-09-13 8:53:08 AM |
| #61 Here's more evidence of Gentile stupidity, and a perfect example of methods used by Zionists to accomplish their goals. Looks like the time has come once again to reshuffle alliances at the cost of American lives. UFO's home page -- http://politicsandcurrentevents.com |
| Posted by: UFO 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM |
| #60 Here's more evidence of Gentile stupidity, and a perfect example of methods used by Zionists to accomplish their goals. Looks like the time has come once again to reshuffle alliances at the cost of American lives. UFO's home page -- http://politicsandcurrentevents.com |
| Posted by: UFO 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM |
| #59 I wonder what Picasso would have done with the horror of abu ma grab. The pink phase: Abu MaBra is stretched Never mind... it's late you get the picture. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-13 7:39:46 PM |
| #58 Its the same vision that produces: "having prisioners wear womens panties on their heads" > "murdering and raping innocent schoolchildren" |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2004-09-13 6:49:36 PM |
| #57 One thing that strikes me is the lack of proportion involved in the use of the word massive to describe this attack. Its use in this article constitutes little more than purple prose, given that only 2000 soldiers were involved. When I think of a massive attack, visions of entire army groups, hundreds of thousands of troops and thousands of tanks drift into the picture. These guys are talking about a couple of thousand guys. What are these guys smoking? |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 6:45:31 PM |
| #56 "Tal Afar is a tribal city and its people were not patient with the presence of American forces," I suggest they freakin' well GET patient, or else they'll get dead. |
| Posted by: mojo 2004-09-13 3:36:09 PM |
| #55 HEY! Listen up. Things have changed! We are in a new phase of war now. Think WWII when Stalin joined with the US. All of the old predictions just went out the window. We all need to stop - reevaluate and move forward. At some point, the English realized their red coats and battle lines were retro. We stand at that point today. |
| Posted by: feeling bitchy 2004-09-13 1:47:34 PM |
| #54 Murat Ok, Turkey gives truckloads of wedpons to the Turkmen and America gives truckloads of nukes to the Armenians and the native (ie Greeek) Cypriots... |
| Posted by: JFM 2004-09-13 1:31:49 PM |
| #53 Monty Burns. You are right, sir... We all a-tremblin' with fear... |
| Posted by: BigEd 2004-09-13 12:40:44 PM |
| #52 J187: If we were there in Kurdistan, would they need an outlet to the sea? If we were there in Kurdistan, we would need an outlet to the sea. Military supplies don't materialize out of thin air, at least not until we figure out how to teleport things. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 11:17:17 AM |
| #51 ZF-If we were there in Kurdistan, would they need an outlet to the sea? (Just throwing ideas into the mix.) |
| Posted by: jules 187 2004-09-13 11:03:35 AM |
| #50 Hey, I was only thunking out aloud. Check my article on bollocks... quite appropriate. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 11:03:21 AM |
| #49 Zhang, I hear Syria's going to be available soon. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-13 11:00:08 AM |
| #48 Howard UK-You're no doubt right about the timing. But, are we not dealing with the rage of them now? Najaf? Fallujah? The story above that describes the Turkmen as insurgents? Who we pick as allies, especially given the fact that there seem to be so few genuine ones in Iraq, seems so important. |
| Posted by: jules 187 2004-09-13 10:59:23 AM |
| #47 HUK: We'd have to cope with rage of the Turks and Iraqi sunnis as a consequence. They need an outlet to the sea, so that the Turks, Persians and Arabs can't gang up on them. Iraq isn't exactly known for its long coastlines. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 10:58:37 AM |
| #46 RC, they sound like uncircumcised Jews. |
| Posted by: Mrs. Davis 2004-09-13 10:58:00 AM |
| #45 That they are not the other ethnic / asshat groups named is a FEATURE, not a bug. It is one hell of a recommendation. Their behavior, both under the No-Fly period and since the end of the Iraq War prove that they are infinitely more intelligent, organized, civilized, and rational than the others. What more could anyone ask of them? Lumping them in with the miscreants ignores reality. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-09-13 10:56:45 AM |
| #44 Having spoken with members of some of the above in London and on holiday in Turkey it would appear the kurds are treated much the same as gypsies in Europe - nasty horrible people who would steal your mum if she wasn't tied down. Have met several kurds - cabbies in London - and they've been fine. I think we really would upset the regional applecart if we followed that line. Time for something new? Maybe. But I think we'd lose credibility amongst key regional powerbrokers. An independent Kurdistan may be a noble goal, and perhaps were better done sooner? We'd have to cope with rage of the Turks and Iraqi sunnis as a consequence. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:55:29 AM |
| #43 OK, thanks, Robert. The Arabs, Persians, and Turks loathe them. But do WE loathe them? Time to consider the benefits that leverage and alliance could bring to the WHOLE Iraq situation. |
| Posted by: jules 187 2004-09-13 10:51:50 AM |
| #42 Howard-using your analogy, why are Kurds loathed? 1. They're not Arabs. 2. They're not Persians. 3. They're not Turks. 4. They don't have a state, and want one, but that would mean taking land away from the groups they don't belong to. 5. All those same groups have been using the Kurdish hopes for their own state as a weapon against the other groups. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-09-13 10:47:01 AM |
| #41 Being serious, they do appear, racially, as the regional kicking post. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:46:52 AM |
| #40 Ooooooooooooo! The Turkish are mad at us! Ooooooooooooo! The Turkish! Oooooooooooo! Hide me! The Turkish are mad at us! |
| Posted by: Montgomery Burns 2004-09-13 10:44:29 AM |
| #39 I thought they were bottom of the regional pile - Turks don't like 'em, neither do Sunnis, don't know if they're above below Shias in the food chain? Prob below. And those bloody Zoroastrians, I'm tellin ya'! |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:44:18 AM |
| #38 Howard-using your analogy, why are Kurds loathed? |
| Posted by: jules 187 2004-09-13 10:41:45 AM |
| #37 I suppose it's s bit like going into central Europe and siding with the gypsies because they're loathed by everyone. Just watch your purse. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:40:35 AM |
| #36 jules187 - I hear you. Been there / asked that myself. A number of times. Still see no valid rational reason. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-09-13 10:39:35 AM |
| #35 Can anyone tell me why we haven't committed ourselves to a preferred alliance with the Kurds-the one true and grateful ally we have in that region? Who has been with us from the beginning? I don't understand why we didn't push for the partitioning of Iraq-with Kurdistan being the one place which we could reasonably believe we were welcome in and could use as a base of operations in the future. Turkey would get pissed off about, but so what, they betrayed us. You betray, you pay. What's worth more, placating Turkey or nurturing the one sensible ally inside current-day Iraq? What am I missing here? |
| Posted by: jules 187 2004-09-13 10:36:14 AM |
| #34 would be nice to confront those babykillers with real soldiers. Murat, our soldiers are confronting the Turk-supported babykillers. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2004-09-13 10:25:36 AM |
| #33 Atatürk must be spinning... |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 10:25:15 AM |
| #32 To the American (made in China), would be nice to confront those babykillers with real soldiers. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-09-13 10:20:59 AM |
| #31 What it sounds like is that the Turks are backing their own terrorist faction, and are unhappy that their pet jihadis are getting blasted to pieces. Maybe they should send the Turkish Army into Iraq. How about it, Murat? Restore a piece of the Ottoman empire (Turkish rule over Northern Iraq)? |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 10:13:15 AM |
| #30 This story seems to be OBE, since according to another article, the US is occupying the city, and the killer thug gangs have disappeared into the woodwork. |
| Posted by: V is for Victory 2004-09-13 10:09:01 AM |
| #29 It's about time someone brought up a certain scene from LA Confidential... |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering 2004-09-13 10:08:41 AM |
| #28 I'm curious what your hometown is, Murat. Some Turkish village has obviously lost their idiot |
| Posted by: Frank G 2004-09-13 10:07:27 AM |
| #27 Murat: My my big surprise, smart Americans still exist (from the Guardian): Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq. Murat, UFO is a Muslim. Nazis don't care about Zionists - they just wish Jews in the West would go to Israel (or anywhere else) and stay there. They would also prefer it if the Asiatic hordes, including Muslims, Arabs, Orientals, Turks, etc would leave the country. Any self-respecting Nazi would have UFO's Muslim butt deported (or worse). As to al Guardian's quote of Powell, it's no real surprise - he's playing the good cop (he is, after all, in the State, not Defense, Department). Ever heard of the good cop, bad cop strategy? The good cop says his partner's nuts, and if he doesn't get any cooperation, all hell will break loose. But then again, Murat doesn't like to do any thinking - he like his propaganda neat from the fevered imaginations at al Guardian. |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2004-09-13 10:03:39 AM |
| #26 Not only crazy, but damn well armed to boot! |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-13 9:50:51 AM |
| #25 I say let's kick Turkey out of NATO and let Israel hit it! What do you say? |
| Posted by: Abdul Goldman 2004-09-13 9:50:25 AM |
| #24 My my big surprise, smart Americans still exist (from the Guardian): Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-09-13 9:44:30 AM |
| #23 If the Turks get in you can kiss that rebate goodbye. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-13 9:38:59 AM |
| #22 ... and if they play ball they'll find themselves in the EU with oodles of subsidies for their agriculture. |
| Posted by: Howard UK 2004-09-13 9:32:51 AM |
| #21 Murat and the other anti American Turks have a psychic war inside their own head. Their left brain tells them that Turkey absolutely will benefit from a stable democratic Iraq. It also tells them that Saddam was bad for Turkey. It also tells them that Islamists in Iraq are bad for Turkey. It also tells them that their interest is served by more oil production in the Kirkuk basin. On the other hand their right brain is telling them. Americans- bad- emotional response needed. |
| Posted by: mhw 2004-09-13 9:17:35 AM |
| #20 Hey, Ship, is the Armenian contingent up there yet? It'll take awhile to even the score, but you gotta start somewhere. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2004-09-13 9:04:58 AM |
| #19 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted] |
| Posted by: UFO TROLL 2004-09-13 8:53:08 AM |
| #18 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted] |
| Posted by: UFO TROLL 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM |
| #17 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted] |
| Posted by: UFO TROLL 2004-09-13 8:37:42 AM |
| #16 Russia is your friend Murat. Listen to them. Greece loves you to. Bulgaria is a faithful friend and Syria of course. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2004-09-13 7:43:57 AM |
| #15 your intrusion attempt failed. Sorry. |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-13 7:41:42 AM |
| #14 Oh, I'm sorry Murat, you didn't say "cap". Here's what Murat had to say about our president on 9/10/04. See post #10 bust that tweep death or alive PS...Murat..your english sucks. PS Murat...be sure and say goodbye before you blow. I feel bad about Murat I. He was waxing poetic and I said mean things to him shortly before those bank bombings which occurred shortly before Bush visited your country. Haven't heard much from him since. It's just that, you know, we get to know each other and it's important you say goodbye. |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-13 7:37:22 AM |
| #13 Murat - since you've publically proclaimed on rantburg that you wish you could cap our president, I'm not sure why you have a problem with our actions. |
| Posted by: B 2004-09-13 7:26:59 AM |
| #12 .com said "but the US seems loathe to completely write you off as assholes unworthy of our friendship" Dear .com we Turks are already long time aware that America is not our friend, there are steadfast proves of America aiding the terrorist leader Osman Ocalan who has split off from the PKK (which is remarkably on the US terror list) founded the breakaway group PWD. The most remarkable thing is that the same US helped us to catch the chief terrorist Abdullah Ocalan (brother of Osman Ocalan) and is now using his little brother against us. Strange eyh, announcing the whole world that you are "fighting terror" and the same time you help to form and aid a terror organisation. Well, the Indians would say "you white man, you talk with split tongue". |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-09-13 6:09:03 AM |
| #11 Armed people like the Republican Guard? Or are you just talking about terrorists; those brave men who hide amongst civilians? |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-09-13 5:48:31 AM |
| #10 Yes Bulldog, against the unarmed civilian population the US army is all-conquering, there is nothing wrong to give a tiny percentage balance to the situation so that the Americans at least fight armed people. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-09-13 5:28:35 AM |
| #9 Murat, I don't get it. One day you're proclaiing how incompetent the US is - quagmire, hiding, running away etc. The next the US is engaged in 'genocide' and you guys urgently need to arm Turkmen to prevent the all-conquering US armed forces from killing everybody. You know, you really can't have it both ways or people might sart to, um, disrespect your opinion... |
| Posted by: Bulldog 2004-09-13 5:14:33 AM |
| #8 .com, I'll be a pleasure to make scums a complete faillure in Iraq. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-09-13 5:04:04 AM |
| #7 Please do, Turk. Please. I'd love nothing better than to permanently slam the door between the US and the bastard Turks. You earned it with your perfidy already, but the US seems loathe to completely write you off as assholes unworthy of our friendship, support, sweetheart trade agreements, support in your struggles to be "european" enough to join their club - the whole mess. You're not worth warm spit. Your suggestion would do the trick. Please proceed. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-09-13 4:32:19 AM |
| #6 Yer next, Murat. |
| Posted by: Asedwich 2004-09-13 3:41:55 AM |
| #5 Murat have a nice hot one. |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-09-13 3:39:07 AM |
| #4 Well, this makes it legal now for us to sent truck loads of weapons to the Turkmen insurgents, they have the right to defend themselves against the American genocide. |
| Posted by: Murat 2004-09-13 3:30:06 AM |
| #3 ROFLMAO!!! Watch all you like. Issues some more furious protests. Gnash your teeth. Wear sack-cloth and ashes. Howl at the fucking moon. Who cares? No one. When you stab your allies in the back, you can expect to find yourself alone, eventually. And there you are. Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid. And duplicitous. FOAD, Turds, er Turks. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-09-13 2:30:30 AM |
| #2 avoid indiscriminate use of force Sounds good. Carry on. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2004-09-13 1:50:51 AM |
| #1 Turkey forfeted all rights to say anything when it refused US forces passage into Iraq via Turkey. Suck it up> The times of "tribal life" in Iraq are over. That is one of the things the terrorists depend on. Iraqis must be loyal to their nation, not their tribe or ethnic group. The is 2004 AD not 1077 AD . |
| Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom 2004-09-13 1:35:26 AM |