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| Europe |
| Germany pulls out of military expo over retired Army officer's column |
| 2004-09-24 |
| The German military has pulled out of the U.S. Army's annual Land Combat Expo, protesting an opinion piece written by a controversial retired U.S. officer slated to be a guest speaker at next week's event. Retired Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, a noted author and frequent lecturer in military circles, wrote an opinion piece blasting the Germans in the New York Post on Aug. 19. The column came in the wake of criticism from Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign team of President Bush's plan to reduce U.S. forces in Europe and Asia. "Not one presents a reasoned strategic argument for maintaining wasteful garrisons abroad. And not one admits that the Germans only care about losing the jobs we provide," wrote Peters. "Regarding the Democrats' claim that we'll lose influence in Europe, the obvious question is, 'What influence?'" Peters continued. "We're not stabbing our French and German 'allies' in the back. They stabbed us. And they'll do it again. Our troop posture in Europe doesn't give us influence over the Europeans — it gives the Europeans power over us." |
| Posted by:tipper |
| #13 I've been living in Germany the last 11 of 13 years working (soldier&civilian) for the US Army. Let me take this on a point by point basis. Actually the cup is half empty or half full depending on how you want to look at it. "Having served in Germany for 10 years, I saw up close how German farmers filed outrageous claims for "maneuver damage," This practice did happen quite often. Moot point now that we no longer use massive vehicle movements for REFORGER exercises if they even have them anymore. One time a farmer came in all pissed off about the damage done to his farmland. When it was explained that troops wouldn't be in his area for 3 more days, he smiled and said "Well, I'll see you in 3 days.". "German landlords rented sub-standard housing to our military families at inflated rates, then exploited the system to renovate slums our soldiers had "ruined." (ARRRGGGHHH!!!) Much like death and taxes, this is a sure bet EVERY TIME. Oh, and the security deposit you can kiss goodbye from day 1. They have people work "black" (paid under the table)to repair or prep the house. The quality of both work and materials are shabby for the most part to maximize their profits. They also can recite your housing allowance by heart whether you're a soldier or civilian. They also know when you go you HAVE TO GO relatively quick. They also know how notoriously slow the German legal system is. In addition, they know you won't clear until they get their money. On a scale of 1-10 for being a rotten deal it rates about a 53. German workers. Although there are many good ones that take pride in what they do. The bad ones, however, tend to be bad in the extreme. (Oh, the stories I could tell.)Like the old Army saying goes, "You can have 100 atta boys, but one "oh shit" and they're gone." It takes an act of God to fire the local nationals. They can have up to 7 months to file an appeal depending on length of their employment. Commanders usually rotate every year. New commander comes in and has no clue whats going on and the case gets dropped. Then 4-5 months later he/she realizes the worker is as useless as a screen door on a submarine and the cycle repeats. Unfortunately, the bad overshadow the good. They do get both US and German Holidays off, and can have unlimited sick leave (with a note from their doctor, after day 3 and this has been, on occasion, abused). As for the rest, the Germans ARE still our allies. Just because Schroeder sold his soul to win the election doesn't mean Germany isn't our ally anymore. After Austrailia/UK come the Germans. If Stoiber had won the election things would have been ALOT different. They still wouldn't have sent troops but they would have done alot more. The Bundeswehr (German Army) is even TODAY still providing security for our families and military facilities in a very professional manner. I understand the urge to lash out at them, but they ARE NO FRANCE. To say that is to be intellectually dishonest. They are stil our friends. BTW, what asshat said they treat us like second class citizens here? That IS A BLATANT LIE! By a LARGE margin they embrace the US communities and not just for the dollars. 50 years of friendship can't be so easily broken over a few years of bad politics. (Yeah, I got a Frau too.) That speaker SHOULD be taken off the list and the Germans should attend. We shouldn't be so thinned skinned about it. It's not a PC thing, it should be a respect thing. After all, if you were a American platoon sergeant, would you have you're soldiers go to a French Expo where they would be insulted. Come on, be real. Fred...Please don't ban me! :-) .com...I agree two good points. |
| Posted by: 98zulu 2004-09-24 7:49:05 PM |
| #12 Good points, TGA. I think it's really a problem with the display. Made in China, tsk, should've known better, heh. |
| Posted by: .com 2004-09-24 6:14:39 PM |
| #11 "Germany pulls out of military expo over retired Army officerâs column" and "Egypt bans Madona over a visit to Israel" who's learning from whom. |
| Posted by: Anonymous6092 2004-09-24 5:22:33 PM |
| #10 Storm in a teacup, anyone? German members of the military training in the U.S. go along damn fine with their U.S. friends in uniform. But I can see German soldiers reacting a bit pissed when they read things like that: "The primary reason why German politicians want American troops to remain is that they've been fleecing us for a half century. Some flunky from the German Embassy may respond with bogus claims about how our presence is subsidized, but the truth is that American tax dollars go to lazy, arrogant, corrupt German employees who work on our bases and over whom we have little control. The Germans aren't worried about global security. They're worried about their dismal unemployment numbers." Free speech? Fair enough. But free speech guarantees that you can say what you want, not that you can force others to listen to it. I have no idea what this brave Lt Col Peters would have to say on the occasion mentioned but I wouldn't invite him to the next US-German friendship meeting. Maybe that worried German colonel just wanted to avoid some gummibears flying in Mr Peter's direction? Just a little reminder: The German taxpayer subsidizes the American presence in Germany with approx. 1,2 bn dollars a year (this is a Pentagon calculation), we don't treat your soldiers as second-class beings (as a matter of fact quite a few German women prefer to marry them every year) and if you are looking for people calling Bush a Nazi you better go to moveon.org. I have said it so often, so once more. You are not in Germany anymore to protect Germany, you are there because it suits you strategically (the organization and strategic plannings of the Iraq war was mainly done in Germany). Those German people who receive U.S. dollars don't get them for free, they WORK for them. And if they didn't do a good job, they would get fired tomorrow, don't you think? If you think the German contribution in Afghanistan and elsewhere is so meaningless, we can bring the troops home easily tomorrow and spend the money on those poor masses of newly unemployed by U.S. withdrawal from Germany. This plus 1,2 bn dollars a year do go quite a long way. |
| Posted by: True German Ally 2004-09-24 4:25:23 PM |
| #9 The Germans were to provide three tanks, two wheeled vehicles and about 30 soldiers as part of the German armyâs display at the expo. Between this and their deployment to Afghanistan, they're probably a little maxed out at the moment. Just as well. Keep the faith, Lt Col Peters! |
| Posted by: geezer 2004-09-24 3:20:44 PM |
| #8 The irony of the german position being quoted by Colonel Kling(k) is too rich. Where is Sgt Schultz? "Hogannnn ?!?" |
| Posted by: GP 2004-09-24 3:09:56 PM |
| #7 As a parallel to Barbara's point -- you don't see OUR military pulling out in the face of millions (see the anti-war majority in Germany), only in the fact that the Poles are perfectly willing to take us in ... |
| Posted by: Edward Yee 2004-09-24 2:23:29 PM |
| #6 Good grief! We did too good a job after WWII, turning the Germans from a martial society to a PC, whiny, pussy society. TGA, is there something else going on here? I know most Germans don't agree with our being Iraq, as is their right, but to have the military pull out of a joint exercise because of a newspaper column in English by a civilian is beyond belief, and, I would think, embarrassing. |
| Posted by: Barbara Skolaut 2004-09-24 1:17:43 PM |
| #5 Reminds me of a line from Aliens when they decide not to use rifles inside the nuclear plant complex: What are we supposed to use - harsh language? In the case of the Germans, that appears to be enough. |
| Posted by: Dreadnought 2004-09-24 1:13:00 PM |
| #4 !!amazing stupidity ... there is nothing more behind it? |
| Posted by: Anonymous6361 2004-09-24 1:08:15 PM |
| #3 Damn, I believe I can hear the sound of brass clanking together from here. |
| Posted by: Carl in N.H. 2004-09-24 12:22:52 PM |
| #2 I'm sure there are some fine Polish venues that would be happy to host the Expo on short notice. |
| Posted by: lex 2004-09-24 12:02:32 PM |
| #1 âIf they pull out because they canât stand one 800-word opinion piece in an American newspaper, how could we possibly expect them to stand by us in a violent crisis?â Hear, hear! |
| Posted by: trailing wife 2004-09-24 11:58:54 AM |
