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| China-Japan-Koreas |
| China Loses A Submarine |
| 2005-05-31 |
| A Chinese Navy submarine stalled apparently after a fire broke out aboard the vessel while it was submerged in the South China Sea, sources close to the Japanese and U.S. defense authorities said Monday. As of Monday afternoon, the submarine was being towed above the water in the direction of Hainan Island. The Japanese and U.S. governments have been monitoring the vessel, and it is unknown whether there were any casualties, the sources said. The warship in question is a Chinese Navy Ming-class diesel-powered hunter-killer submarine, the sources added. According to the sources, the accident occurred in international waters about halfway between Taiwan and Hainan Island on Thursday, and the submarine was being towed by a Chinese vessel apparently in the direction of Yulin Naval Port on the island. It is not known whether the submarine surfaced on its own, the sources added. Three or four Chinese warships were spotted around the site of the accident, and another Chinese submarine was detected, which suggests that an accident may have occurred during a military exercise, the sources said. The Japanese and U.S. governments believe the accident will not affect surrounding areas because the vessel was not nuclear-powered, the sources said. In 2003, all 70 crew members of a Ming-class submarine were killed in an accident caused by a mechanical malfunction. The accident is believed to have been caused by a rapid decline in the amount of oxygen inside the submarine. China never disclosed the cause. The waters in which the latest accident occurred are strategically important for China as the South China Sea includes Spratly Islands, on which several countries lay territorial claims. China also has conducted frequent drills involving submarines in the area. In the event of a military attack on Taiwan, China likely would use the area to block U.S. carrier-borne fighters from coming to the aid of the island. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #14 Remember, in WW2, the Germans and Japanese were able to operate WW2-era-technology subs within visual range of the coasts of the United States... and we were able to blockade Japan with similar subs. |
| Posted by: Phil Fraering 2005-05-31 22:47 |
| #13 Iirc, the Ming is credited with a range of about 4500 miles. This is pretty good in and of itself, but there is great potential for clandestine replenishment in other areas; Iran, certain African countries on both coasts, and Venezuela for example. Beyond that, it is conceivable that the submarines could replenish clandestinely from merchant ships or naval auxiliaries belonging to any of these countries, or possibly even from vessels operated by various pirate and traitor elements of any nationality. This would be on a small scale, and losses would be high, but the propaganda value of being able to threaten any part of the world would be enormous. It is unlikely that these submarines could approach the US coast closely enough to do real danger (though even this is not impossible) but attacks and sinkings in nearby but relatively unprotected areas would have a devastating psychological impact. This could include the coast of Mexico or the Caribbean, as well as certain outlying territories of the US. Similar damage could be done in European waters. In the age of media-based warfare, the objective military importance of the targets would be a secondary consideration. In this respect, the strategy would resemble that of modern terrorists. Like the Islamic terrorists, the Chinese admirals could count on defeatist media to inflate any target into evidence of their invincibility and power. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2005-05-31 22:00 |
| #12 The Ming is probably the oldest basic design of submarine currently in service with a major power, certainly the oldest serving in significant numbers. The "Romeo" class were an improved version of the "Whiskey," itself derived from the German Type XXI U-boat of WW2. Nevertheless, these boats have a significant strategic potential. The vagaries of the ocean being what they are, it is possible for even an obsolete sub to get lucky against major opposition, and this likelihood naturally grows with the numbers. The Ming, like all subs of any reasonable size, has a pretty good range. They could disrupt commerce and divert resources over a very large and critical area by forcing merchant ships to travel in convoy. In the time required to get a convoy system organized, the Chinese sub fleet could pick off dozens of container ships, tankers, fishing vessels and other unprotected traffic all over the western Pacific and perhaps further afield. The economic impact would be in the many billions within hours. Perhaps even more importantly in the age of media-warfare, such sinkings would greatly assist the Fifth Column media in their utterly predictable efforts to sow panic and defeatism at an early stage. It is also likely that subs like the Ming can be used for special ops insertion, again over a huge area. A diesel-electric sub that avoids drawing attention to itself has a fair chance of reaching any coastline in the world adding to the diversion of resources from the most important areas. |
| Posted by: Atomic Conspiracy 2005-05-31 21:42 |
| #11 China wants to play a numbers game with its navy, like with everything else. They probably figure that if they can send several submarines after one US submarine, they can sacrifice any submarine just to get the US submarine to expose itself, then have their remaining ships concentrate its fires on it. Do not discount the willingness to sacrifice, or the value of quantity over quality Chinese Sailor: "He said what???" |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-05-31 21:19 |
| #10 Romeo! Romeo! Where art thou knock-off? Same as the other Romeos: 2 CZ's away with a busted snort, listing to port. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2005-05-31 20:43 |
| #9 Accident number two, eh? Those Mings are merciless... |
| Posted by: Pappy 2005-05-31 20:06 |
| #8 The Hunt for Red October, first thing I thought when I read the headline |
| Posted by: djohn66 2005-05-31 18:41 |
| #7 Andre... you've lost another submarine? |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2005-05-31 17:53 |
| #6 It is said that quality has a quantity all of it's own. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-05-31 17:35 |
| #5 China wants to play a numbers game with its navy, like with everything else. They probably figure that if they can send several submarines after one US submarine, they can sacrifice any submarine just to get the US submarine to expose itself, then have their remaining ships concentrate its fires on it. Do not discount the willingness to sacrifice, or the value of quantity over quality. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2005-05-31 17:28 |
| #4 Mandarin is such a tonal language, can you imagine how confusing it must be for them when they communicat via sound powered phones? |
| Posted by: Penguin 2005-05-31 16:13 |
| #3 Are we seeing the beginning of the end for the Chinese navy (like the Russkies before them)? Or is this another chess play off the coast of Taiwan? |
| Posted by: BA 2005-05-31 15:12 |
| #2 He-he Shipman! |
| Posted by: mmurray821 2005-05-31 13:35 |
| #1 Romeo! Romeo! Where art thou knock-off? It's the batteries Juliet, Upon my floor. |
| Posted by: Shipman 2005-05-31 13:16 |