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Britain
Poll: Britons will never give in to terrorists
2005-07-09
Slightly EFL
The perpetrators of Thursday's atrocities are living in a fantasy world if they think the British people can be intimidated by terrorism, let alone converted to Islam. The findings of YouGov's survey show they are equally deluded if they think they can drive a wedge either between Britain and the United States or between most Britons and their Muslim fellow countrymen.
Poll results here.

The vast majority of YouGov's respondents are proud of London's emergency services and of the way ordinary Londoners responded to Thursday's bombings. They have no intention of changing the way they live and work merely to satisfy the desires of a few fanatics.

Not surprisingly, people's willingness to see the authorities taking whatever steps are necessary to apprehend and, if need be, detain potential terrorists has risen sharply. More than 80 per cent believe the threat is so serious that the authorities should act against suspected terrorists even if they have not committed any offence.

The survey also reveals increased support for identity cards. Compared with last week, support for ID cards has increased significantly, almost certainly as a result of the attacks.
There's always got to be a downside!
Even so, people by a wide margin remain unconvinced that the introduction of cards would help prevent terrorist acts.
Seems to be a reality disconnect going on in people's minds then. You don't cure measles by popping spots.

Although most Britons do reckon that the London bombings were the work of Islamic extremists, most show no disposition to point the finger of blame at British Muslims as a whole. On the contrary, well over 80 per cent are convinced that the great majority of British Muslims are peaceful, law-abiding citizens who condemn the bombings like everyone else.

The response of Tony Blair and his ministers to the attacks has clearly boosted the standing of both. Early this year, twice as many people said they were dissatisfied with Mr Blair as Prime Minister as said the opposite. In the aftermath of Thursday's bombings, Mr Blair's approval rating has flipped from negative to positive for the first time in five years.

Moreover, the bombings have failed - despite Mr George Galloway's best efforts - to undermine support for the British presence in Iraq. The proportion wanting British troops brought home quickly has fallen and the proportion who now want Britain to retain its close ties with the US has risen. The section of the chart headed "Assessing performance" tells a story of which Britons can be proud.
Heh. Maybe the Jihadi Grand Strategy needs a little tweaking.

[P]eople are far from sanguine about the future. Almost everyone, 92 per cent, reckons that another terrorist attack on a British target is now either "very likely" (45 per cent) or "fairly likely" (47 per cent). However, the proportion fearing that they themselves or a close family member or friend might be killed or injured in such an attack has not risen significantly. People have clearly thought for a long time that a terrorist attack was probable, but most people evidently have no intention of changing the way they live. A mere one per cent of YouGov's respondents expects to make big changes as a result of the bombings. The great majority, 88 per cent, expect to make few changes or none at all.

The bombings have provided a modest boost to public support for identity cards. Support for ID cards has risen quite suddenly from 45 per cent a week ago to 50 per cent now. Even so, a substantial majority, 56 per cent, still doubt whether ID cards would help to prevent future outrages. YouGov's findings also suggest that the London bombings have tipped the balance of opinion still further in favour of according national security priority over at least some civil liberties. An even larger majority than in the past - now 81 per cent - think it is reasonable to take action against potential terrorists even if they have not yet committed a criminal offence.

The figures in the section of the chart headed "Muslims and the bombings" show beyond doubt that a large majority of Britons make some connection between Thursday's attacks and some of the followers of Islam. Fully 82 per cent are apparently convinced already that Islamic extremists - whether foreign Muslims, British Muslims or some combination of the two - were behind the bombings and 60 per cent believe Britain's security services "should now focus their intelligence-gathering and terrorism-prevention efforts on Muslims in this country or seeking to enter it".

In addition, the proportion believing that Islam itself - as distinct from fundamentalist Islamic groups - poses a threat to western liberal democracy has risen from 32 per cent shortly after the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Centre to 46 per cent now.
Posted by:Bulldog

#15  What a complete pile of bullshit. So the Britons will never give in to terrorists? No problem, just vote for Labour or Liberal Democrat, and Ken Livingstone for mayor of London, and they'll do it for you. And they'll smile at you while they do it, and lock you up if you dare to criticise the 'religion of peace'.
Posted by: Thomong Whoting3058   2005-07-09 23:22  

#14  Thanks, Tony. Looks like we'll have to see how attitudes adjust in the coming weeks-- especially after the BBC get to work "correcting" some of these "incorrect" opinions...
Posted by: Dave D.   2005-07-09 19:27  

#13  Dave D. - hard to say, the YouGov surveys are somewhat self-selecting (mostly internet-based) and so therefore you'll get a lot more of the chattering class viewpoints being expressed. Also, I wouldn't trust them to not fiddle the results a bit if they showed a strong non-PC bias. I'd say that the 10% figure mentioned in BigEd's post is going to be too low.
Posted by: Tony (UK)   2005-07-09 18:34  

#12  Note also the proportion who say Islam is no threat is also 23%. Since we can say that Moslems were questioned, and all would say this as well as the other 23% answer. We then assume than Moslems are 5% of the population there, the results are very drammatic among the non-Moslem population...

Moslems must clean their own house, or face being considered pariahs on sight...

The rest of us can only take this indiscriminate murder of innocents for so long before there will be a lash out at anyone who is perceived to facilitate the perpitrators...
Posted by: BigEd   2005-07-09 17:29  

#11  This is telling :

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

Note how the PC crowd is 23%. I think that number is dropping...
Posted by: BigEd   2005-07-09 17:18  

#10  Good article, but I didn't need a poll to tell me this.
Posted by: Matt   2005-07-09 14:02  

#9  the commanders the the 2020 caliphate jihad really are strategically stoopid--the egyptian islamic jihad thought machers who counseled the attacks on the "far enemy" have no western historical analyses that fit their ibn tammiya fantasy--this is not your father's richard the lion hearted--its churchill and the river war baby--kitchener not poorly equipped chinese gordon-- they will dig up the mahdi's bones and toss them into the nile--that's the british way
Posted by: SON OF TOLUI   2005-07-09 13:14  

#8  Tony (UK): Do these poll results square pretty well with the views of people you've talked to? They're rather impressive-- and encouraging.
Posted by: Dave D.   2005-07-09 12:11  

#7  I would say not. Thanks, Tony.
Posted by: Neutron Tom   2005-07-09 11:33  

#6  Hmmm, some of the 'muslim' questions are interesting;

'Do you feel that Islam - as distinct from Islamic fundamentalist groups - poses a threat to Western liberal democracy?' (brackets from Oct 2001)

Yes, Islam poses a major threat - 19% (10)
Yes, poses some threat - 27% (22)
No, not much threat - 24% (33)
No, no threat at all - 23% (35)
Don't know - 7% (5)

The way I work that out is that almost half the population thinks Islam itself, and not the radicalised fundamentalist version of it, as a threat, and this figure has risen from Oct 2001 (when we were all very raw from 9/11). I'd say Islam has a problem.

I'm inclined to agree with the general trend of the thread yesterday on the Blood Feud - totally disproportionate response.

Kipling had it right - repay it back 100 times over...


The Grave of the Hundred Head


There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

A Snider squibbed in the jungle,
Somebody laughed and fled,
And the men of the First Shikaris
Picked up their Subaltern dead,
With a big blue mark in his forehead
And the back blown out of his head.

Subadar Prag Tewarri,
Jemadar Hira Lal,
Took command of the party,
Twenty rifles in all,
Marched them down to the river
As the day was beginning to fall.

They buried the boy by the river,
A blanket over his face --
They wept for their dead Lieutenant,
The men of an alien race --
They made a samadh in his honor,
A mark for his resting-place.

For they swore by the Holy Water,
They swore by the salt they ate,
That the soul of Lieutenant Eshmitt Sahib
Should go to his God in state,
With fifty file of Burmans
To open him Heaven's gate.

The men of the First Shikaris
Marched till the break of day,
Till they came to the rebel village,
The village of Pabengmay --
A jingal covered the clearing,
Calthrops hampered the way.

Subadar Prag Tewarri,
Bidding them load with ball,
Halted a dozen rifles
Under the village wall;
Sent out a flanking-party
With Jemadar Hira Lal.

The men of the First Shikaris
Shouted and smote and slew,
Turning the grinning jingal
On to the howling crew.
The Jemadar's flanking-party
Butchered the folk who flew.

Long was the morn of slaughter,
Long was the list of slain,
Five score heads were taken,
Five score heads and twain;
And the men of the First Shickaris
Went back to their grave again,

Each man bearing a basket
Red as his palms that day,
Red as the blazing village --
The village of Pabengmay,
And the "drip-drip-drip" from the baskets
Reddened the grass by the way.

They made a pile of their trophies
High as a tall man's chin,
Head upon head distorted,
Set in a sightless grin,
Anger and pain and terror
Stamped on the smoke-scorched skin.

Subadar Prag Tewarri
Put the head of the Boh
On the top of the mound of triumph,
The head of his son below --
With the sword and the peacock-banner
That the world might behold and know.

Thus the samadh was perfect,
Thus was the lesson plain
Of the wrath of the First Shikaris --
The price of a white man slain;
And the men of the First Shikaris
Went back into camp again.

Then a silence came to the river,
A hush fell over the shore,
And Bohs that were brave departed,
And Sniders squibbed no more;
For the Burmans said
That a white man's head
Must be paid for with heads five-score.

There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.


Of course, Kipling is certainly not the poster boy of the PC crowd.
Posted by: Tony (UK)   2005-07-09 11:24  

#5  Derbyshire provides an alternate viewpoint.

The Calculus of Appeasement
Posted by: gromgoru   2005-07-09 10:03  

#4  EXCELLENT!!!!!
Posted by: PlanetDan   2005-07-09 09:40  

#3  All I can say is, "Wow!"
Posted by: Dave D.   2005-07-09 09:08  

#2  I wonder how the British people would feel about offensive operations at this point. When bombs go off in the West, governments in the Middle East should start getting that quivering feeling in their legs as they try to see the blade aimed at their necks. What say you, United Kingdom? Care to take Syria down while we take Saudi? What would Churchill do?

RULE BRITANNIA!!
Posted by: Zpaz   2005-07-09 08:36  

#1  Unintended consequences (from the jihadi perspective)? Actually, if there is any coherent thought process behind this, its to radicalize mooselimbs. So the more severe the reaction the better.
Posted by: phil_b   2005-07-09 08:28  

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