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Afghanistan/South Asia | ||
Indian INSAS rifles malfunction during major engagement with Nepalese rebels | ||
2005-08-13 | ||
KATHMANDU (Reuters) - The Nepali army said on Friday faulty Indian assault rifles were partly responsible for its heavy death toll in a gun battle with Maoist rebels as troops hunted for 75 soldiers still missing after the fighting. Well, they're still better than the Enfield rifles that Nepal started the war with.
A rifle that won't shoot - can't defend yourself. Not surprised they snatched some hostages. Army spokesman Brigadier-General Dipak Gurung said the Indian-manufactured INSAS rifles malfunctioned during the fighting which continued for about 10 hours. "Soldiers complained that the INSAS rifles did not function properly during the fighting which lasted for a long time," Gurung told a news conference when asked why the army death toll was high. "May be the weapons we were using were not designed for a long fight. They malfunctioned," he said. "There were stoppages during the firing ... the rifles got hot and soldiers had to wait for them to cool," another officer told Reuters.
Nepali troops have complained in the past about technical problems with the Indian designed and built INSAS or Indian Small Arms System assault rifle. Indian troops using the rifle are also known to have faced difficulties using it, Indian defence experts say. Indian defence officials declined to react to the Nepali comments. | ||
Posted by:gromky |
#15 (Another why-do-I-bother-with-15-minutes-left post): Shades of Vietnam where reliable M-14s were replaced with screwed up M-16s that got a bunch of Marines killed. Great information and comments, always learn stuff at Rantburg. I had a friend who was a company commander there; he said that the preexisting problems with the M-16 were aggravated by changes to the propellant used in the cartridges and changes of the amount of propellant (which were meant to change the rate of cyclic fire of the gun). Which brings me to Sock's comment... Yes, the Enfield is a good rifle, and well-maintained examples in private hands shoot well (as do L1A1). It occured to me that part of the problems the Nepalese might be having with both older and newer firearms might be aggravated if they're using stuff like surplus ammo with corrosive primers, which troops in the field may not be able to use without causing corrosion. (I've always wondered, myself, how the Russians dealt with that in WW2... did they just not bother, or did every fire team have a little spray bottle of Windex or something? Or did they actually make non-corrosive ammo?) |
Posted by: Phil Fraering 2005-08-13 23:40 |
#14 Shades of Vietnam where reliable M-14s were replaced with screwed up M-16s that got a bunch of Marines killed. Great information and comments, always learn stuff at Rantburg. |
Posted by: Rifle308 2005-08-13 23:31 |
#13 I should add I can manually cycle it. |
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom 2005-08-13 20:44 |
#12 If it's a L1A1 variant It's put together poorly and with poor materials. Mine L1A1 will even fire when it won't cycle (which is most of the time) I should have never got rid of the Israeli one I had. |
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom 2005-08-13 20:43 |
#11 Phil, No, the Ishapore SLR (Self Loading Rifle) is the Indian version of the FN FAL as once used by the British. |
Posted by: buwaya 2005-08-13 20:20 |
#10 A real problem. They are overheating. I doubt they are firing full auto, quite simply they would run out of ammo in a ten hour engagement of pray and spray. I am thinking this is a design or manufacturing issue. I have an "Indian" Enfield in 303 and A UK built Enfield Rechambered for 7.62 NATO as well as one in 303. The fit and finish on the indian firearm is fair, good enough for an infantry weapon. A group of well drilled infrantrymen with Enfields can duplicate the effects of an LMG. |
Posted by: Sock Puppet 0’ Doom 2005-08-13 20:19 |
#9 Well, a quick google revealed Wikipedia's entry on the Lee-Enfield; some interesting bits:
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Posted by: Phil Fraering 2005-08-13 17:18 |
#8 I take it the "7.62 mm Ishapore SLR" is their version of the Lee-Enfield? |
Posted by: Phil Fraering 2005-08-13 17:04 |
#7 No assault rifle is designed to fire on full auto for any length of time. Let go 100 rounds from an AK47* and you won't be able to carry the damn thing, it gets that hot. *it was an AK knock-off, maybe the real mccoy is different |
Posted by: Rafael 2005-08-13 15:38 |
#6 Do we have a few warehouses of WWII .30 carbines we can donate or sell cheap? I'd much rather be an embarrased soldier than a dead one. |
Posted by: Redneck Jim 2005-08-13 14:44 |
#5 The INSAS looks like an AK-47 variant (or deviant) chambered in .223 with a blowback action. Nothing special here, except that they don't always work. That's a real problem for a combat gun. |
Posted by: Glart Sholing7898 2005-08-13 11:54 |
#4 Indian army problems with the INSAS were with high altitude operation. Overheating appears to be a problem with usage - inexperienced Nepali troopers firing on full auto. SEPTEMBER 23, 2003 THE TIMES OF INDIA The OFB is now working on an export version of the rifle which is expected to be ready by the end of the year. Some improvements are being made to the plastic fittings which were used to keep the weapon light. Steel plates will be inserted to reinforce the plastic. The appearance of the weapon is also very important for the international market. The overall appearance will be improved. However, the costs will be competitive, said general manager, Rifle Factory, Ishapore, B.C. Biswas. The INSAS rifle which replaced the trusty but outdated 7.62 mm Ishapore SLR rifle the primary weapon used by Indian infantryman till a few years ago has been plagued by complaints from soldiers, mainly from those posted in high altitudes. A section of OFB officials confided that India has a long way to go so far as metallurgy for weapons were concerned. They also pointed towards the need for more stringent quality control of procurements from private agencies. The OFB procures over Rs 500 crore worth of stores from the private sector. There were a few INSAS rifles which suffered from cold arrest in Siachen. An enquiry revealed that the unit using the rifles had been recently posted to the region from the plains. In the plains, soldiers use lubricating oil for the barrels. In the colder climes, soldiers are supposed to use a kerosene mixture. The unit was not aware of this fact explained Biswas. OFB officials from the repair and maintenance wing, who travel to forward areas to repair weapons, complained of misuse. In certain areas, the temperature falls to 50 degrees below freezing. Soldiers are so tired that they simply throw down their weapons when they return to the barracks. While on long mountain treks, soldiers often throw weapons to paths 100 feet below, to be collected when they get there. Unlike the SLR, the INSAS is much more sensitive and can get damaged by such treatment, they said. According to officials, nearly 600,000 INSAS rifles have been issued to infantrymen in the Indian Army. Those under production are for issue to Central and state police forces. Most bulk demands have been met. There are only a few units remaining who are yet to be armed with the INSAS. However,we are lagging in the number of weapons in the war reserve. Whenever there is a war, a lot of rifles are lost. There have to be adequate rifles in stock to replenish them said Biswas. |
Posted by: john 2005-08-13 10:37 |
#3 ZF - welllll at least a clip or two.. |
Posted by: Frank G 2005-08-13 10:28 |
#2 Article: "There were stoppages during the firing ... the rifles got hot and soldiers had to wait for them to cool," another officer told Reuters. What are the odds that these were firing on full automatic? No assault rifle is designed to fire on full auto for any length of time. |
Posted by: Zhang Fei 2005-08-13 09:51 |
#1 Well, they're still better than the Enfield rifles that Nepal started the war with. I think I'd take my chances with the Lee Enfield. |
Posted by: Bulldog 2005-08-13 08:00 |