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| China-Japan-Koreas |
| Dragon vs. the Bear- Chinese Presence Grows in Russian Far East |
| 2005-08-25 |
| USSURIISK, Russia - In the mosquito-infested fields of Russia's Far East, Chinese pick tomatoes. In the markets, they sell cheap jeans and backpacks and fix shoes. At construction sites, they rebuild cities. As China and Russia embark on a new stage of cooperation by holding joint military exercises launched from the Pacific port of Vladivostok, the Chinese presence is growing in this hardscrabble region thousands of miles from Moscow. It's too early to talk of an imminent Chinese takeover, local experts say, despite such worries by some Russian politicians. Still, they acknowledge that China's hunger for resources and territory as its population and economy boom could eventually make the Far East an alluring target. "Russia has 30 to 40 years to become an equal partner with China in Asia. ... If Russia doesn't, then China could start to have territorial pretensions," said Mikhail Shinkovskiy, director of the Institute of International Relations and Social Technologies at Vladivostok State University of Economics and Science. Russia seized the Far East from China in the 1800s, back when Russian imperial ambitions were at their height and China was a weak country that could be pushed around. Now, the tables are turned. China's military is seeking to broaden its influence while Russian forces deteriorate to a shadow of their former Soviet might. After years of hostility and a 1969 border war between China and the Soviet Union, Beijing and Moscow are now "strategic partners" who last year signed a treaty resolving disputes about how to draw their 2,700-mile-long frontier. China is keen to buy Russian weapons to help bolster its arsenal, and this week's exercises serve to showcase key items such as Russia's strategic bombers, which can carry nuclear weapons. In launching the exercises last week, top generals from both countries said the joint military drills were just the latest step in cooperation that extends across many spheres — and is most evident here in the Far East. Sergei Sim, an independent journalist in Vladivostok who has specialized in interethnic issues, said the Chinese aren't seeking conflict and have a strong lobby in the local government. So far, their main goal appears to be in business. "Economically, they've already taken over," he said. Some 50,000 Chinese work legally in Russia's Primoriye region, along the Pacific coast, but their actual number is believed to be twice that, Shinkovskiy said. They earn an average of about $100 a month, half the regular Russian salary but far more than what they could get back home. At the Ussuriisk bazaar, the region's largest, Russian and Chinese flags fly over the entrance and merchants wear name tags printed in both languages. Cui Xian, or "Igor" as he's known here, waits for customers at an auto parts stall. The 20-year-old ethnic Korean came to Russia four years ago from China's Jilin province to study but wasn't granted a student visa. Eventually he managed to get a work visa and joined his parents, who immigrated here in 1996. "I live better here, it's a good life," Cui said in Russian, adding that in China it's difficult to find work with the competition and bribes necessary to get jobs. The Chinese trade also provides work for Russians such as Svetlana Kamogurtseva, 30, who helps negotiate sales of purses and backpacks for her Chinese boss from a storage container turned market stall. Unable to find work in her nearby hometown, she came to the bazaar 3 1/2 years ago. She makes $5.25 a day. The bazaar provides work for those who don't have the residence permits required for most jobs, Kamogurtseva said. "If there were other jobs we would do them, but there are no other opportunities." Still, relations between Russians and Chinese in the Far East are sometimes testy, with Russians exhibiting some dismay over having to serve their onetime poorer neighbors from the south. "All Chinese are liars," pronounced Konstantin Drassav, a Chinese-speaking tour guide in the regional capital Vladivostok. China has yet to make inroads here on a higher commercial level: Billboards hawk South Korean mobile phones and TVs, while the roads are filled with right-hand-drive Japanese cars. In Vladivostok, Chinese tour groups roam dirty streets looking to buy Russian alcohol and chocolate and see the few sights this garrison city has to offer, such as a World War II submarine turned into a museum. Other attractions include numerous casinos where Chinese can indulge in gambling, which is banned in China. Prostitution is also widespread, fueling sex tourism. Drassav said every tour group that comes here asserts that the Far East should be assimilated back into China. "All tourists say this territory was stolen from China," h |
| Posted by:sea cruise |
| #11 Hey Raj, I suggest you cool it. Nobody called you or ZF an asshole. Nobody on this site is untouchable, except Fred and the mods (for they hold awesome power). Take a chill pill. |
| Posted by: Rafael 2005-08-25 15:42 |
| #10 Godd comment, EU5567, that's been my thoughts on Unions for some time. That's why I don't care for the "Closed Shop". |
| Posted by: Deacon Blues 2005-08-25 13:38 |
| #9 Great Russian dictators of the past made the same mistake cough "Stalin & friend Hitler" of course we all know how that turned out. Putin and China going down the same street. China knows well that a war with Tiawan would draw in the US and a huge cost even if victory was achieved and a gain of not much more than national pride and sea ports. The US would still have China hemmed in by bases in Japan and I garantee if China took Tiawan the Phillipine base would be back in full swing in short order not to mention the US would have the PR on thier side after such. Make things worse such a war would play to all of China's weaknesses Navy, Air Power, a garatneed blockade that would starve the chinees dragon. On the flip side Siberia sparsley populated Massive oil reserves and mineral, oil being the major that if China wishes to be able to try the US they need a secure overland Oil source shipping it in will be a no-game with the US stongpoint in the way the Navy and Air Force. Siberia plays to the Chineese strong points, overland army fight, short supply lines for China were Russia will be stretched thin and to supply the Eastern coast will be wrought with attacks all the way by Chineese coming from thier south. The Chineese Navy and Air Force could probably match the Russian. Russia couldnt use the Nuke option because unlike the US were MAD would be one sided with China who only has a handfull of missles able to hit the US on the other side of the world Russia is close and well in range of enough Chineese Nukes to make MAD apply enough to deter a Russian move. Not to mention I would almost be willing to bet that after 08' when Putin becomes pres without term limits esentially dictator for life Russian population will be in a state of border revolution waiting to be lit, that if China hit Siberia a spasley populated area that a WW1 senerio (invasion would result in revolution and gov crumbling and choas) would be very very likely if the Russians lost big in the opening stages which again is very very likely. Bottom line success on Tiawan is basicly dependent on secure oil transport that is not sea based were the Chineese have decades to challenge the US. Today no matter how freindly the chineese get with Putin they know that Russia will sell them out for the right price. If Siberia was won then Tiawan campain would have the odds of victory mulitiplied by a factor. If lost the Chinees would really be in the same boat as now. Japan didnt start with the big dog the US, nor did Hitler start with thier neighborhood big dogs, the first thing Empire needs is secured resources Tiawan dont offer that and Siberia offers the most with the smallest amount of risk and price compared to the possible gains. Another thought is the old Soviet Satelites that have the benefits with even less risk than Siberia and Russia maynot even be able to make a responce. I just dont see why China would try to go East little gain and it will take them decades to even be able to challenge the US Navy which will surely be boosted sometime before the Chineese get thier to keep the US advantage. West and North will be the direction big gain plays to Chinas strong points while thier weak points stay defensive to fend off a attack. The Mongols did it. |
| Posted by: C-Low 2005-08-25 13:34 |
| #8 Not shitting on ZF, just pointing out that in fact bribery is the normal way of business throughout most of the world. It's more of a Anglo-Saxon type [thought there are some exceptions] perception that it is not 'normal'. Even then, it can also be found even in America. Basically, its institutionalized in requiring union dues to have a job, just ask the public school teachers who are theoritically working for the state/people. |
| Posted by: Elmemble Ulaitch5567 2005-08-25 12:14 |
| #7 NOt that the Chinese aren't hard workers and all but I'd be wary of inviting neighbors over to help develop the underdeveloped underpopulated parts of my nation. The Russians should instead invite Indians to emigrate. The Russians should bust up the mob in Vladivsotk and create a semi-Free city on the model of Hong Kong. The Russians should apply to the Japanese to build a new trans-siberian bullet train in exchange for those frozen islands the two are always fighting about. The Russians should dump Putin, he's got no ideas and he's done enough damage. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-08-25 11:25 |
| #6 Jeezus H. Christ, what is this, shit on Zhang Fei Day II? Fucking assholes... |
| Posted by: Raj 2005-08-25 11:08 |
| #5 So, they have a whole bunch of people coming from a poor and overcrowded county south of their border. Hmmmm. That sure sounds familiar. |
| Posted by: Jackal 2005-08-25 10:59 |
| #4 According to my sources, paying bribes to get good jobs is apparently a pretty common thing in parts of China. This doesn't, of course, apply to the bottom-rung factory jobs (which are nonetheless better-paying than working on the family farm). Being a little ethnocentric here? And how this is different from most of the world? |
| Posted by: Elmemble Ulaitch5567 2005-08-25 10:30 |
| #3 Dragon and the Bear buddies for life? Not likely even if they can manage to hold o"rganized armed bandit formation eradication" military exercises together. |
| Posted by: MunkarKat 2005-08-25 09:12 |
| #2 Well, depends on where you are. In Zhejiang province, it's rather difficult to find enough workers to man an assembly line. It's doable, but it just takes a month or two. |
| Posted by: gromky 2005-08-25 08:56 |
| #1 Article: "I live better here, it's a good life," Cui said in Russian, adding that in China it's difficult to find work with the competition and bribes necessary to get jobs. According to my sources, paying bribes to get good jobs is apparently a pretty common thing in parts of China. This doesn't, of course, apply to the bottom-rung factory jobs (which are nonetheless better-paying than working on the family farm). |
| Posted by: Zhang Fei 2005-08-25 08:31 |