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| Afghanistan/South Asia |
| Indian Ocean Gets Modern Boats |
| 2005-09-20 |
| September 20, 2005: After years of negotiations, India has signed a deal to buy six French Scorpene class diesel submarines. These are similar to the Agosta 90B subs (also French) that Pakistan has bought. The first of the Agosta's was built in France, but the other two were built in Pakistan. The third Pakistani Agosta is still being finished, it was delayed over a year because Islamic terrorists had killed some of the French engineers working on the project. The two designs are similar, with the Scorpene being more recent (and the result of cooperation between a French and a Spanish firm.) The Agosta is a 1,500 ton (surface displacement) diesel-electric sub with a 36 man crew and four 21 inch torpedo tubes (with 20 torpedoes and/or anti-ship missiles carried.) The Scorpene is a little heavier (1700 tons), has a smaller crew (32) and is a little faster. It has six 21 inch torpedo tubes, and carries 18 torpedoes and/or missiles. Both models can be equipped with an AIP (air independent propulsion) system. This enables the sub to stay under longer, thus making the sub harder to find. AIP allows the sub to travel under water for 4-5 days at low speed (5-10 kilometers an hour). The Pakistanis have an option to retrofit AIP in their current two Agostas. With both nations having these modern subs, they have very lethal weapons against surface warships. With well trained crews, Agostas and Scorpenes can get close to just about any surface ship, no matter how good the defenders anti-submarine defenses are. But it's the AIP boats that are the real killers. Without AIP, subs spend most of their time just below surface, using their diesel engines (via a snorkel device that breaks the surface to take in air, and get rid of the engine exhaust.) Snorkels can be spotted by modern maritime patrol aircraft, and both nations are getting more of these. India has not said if it is getting AIP for its Scorpenes. The price of the contract is quoted as $300 million for each boat. That could include AIP, because the boats are being built in Indian yards, which have much lower costs. European built AIP boats go for about half a billion dollars each. Typically, AIP adds about $100 million to the cost of a sub. |
| Posted by:Steve |
| #5 The Russians are also reportedly offerring to train Indian sub crews on AKULA-type simulators, although the jury is still out on whether India will get any AKULAS, etal. since to combat advanced enemy submarines one must be able to know how they work andor will be used. Russia also earlier had offered a similar deal to CHINA where China would have AKULA/TYPHOON training facilities built by Russia for the PLAN. |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2005-09-20 21:54 |
| #4 Just before the Indian cabinet cleared the Scorpene deal, the German submaker HDW put in a bid to revive their 209 production line in India. They would modify the design (with their Russian partners) to accomodate launch of Russian missles like the Klub. The Russian Amur deal is probably guaranteed so HDW (which has dealings ie allegations of bribery with the ruling congress party) may be accomodated by participation in the Scorpene and Amur production lines. |
| Posted by: john 2005-09-20 21:29 |
| #3 The Indians want the German AIP system, not the French one. They will probably install it on the later boats built. They will also sign a deal to build the Russian Amur class of Diesel-Electric submarines in India. These will be armed with Klub cruise missiles. A large number of Indian Naval officers are training in Russia now. The Russians even built new buildings to accomodate them at its nuclear sub training facility. The number of officers is said to be equal to 4 complete crews for Akula-2 SSNs. While the sailors may be training for India's own nuclear sub (the ATV being built inside Vizag naval base), the Russians are rumored to be completing two Akula SSNs for lease to India. There have been reports that the Scorpene technology will be useful to the ATV project with a claim that the modular nature of the Scorpene would allow a section containing a small nuclear reactor to be added. The ATV reactor could thus perhaps find its way to future Scorpenes, giving India a number of additional, small SSNs. Modifications to allow firing of the Klub CM, the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile and the future Sagarika long range nuclear cruise missile may be made. |
| Posted by: john 2005-09-20 18:06 |
| #2 "The price of the contract is quoted as $300 million for each boat." Not a bad price, actually. I wonder how long it will be before the two of them have a real war? |
| Posted by: Secret Master 2005-09-20 14:35 |
| #1 The very thought of a Submarine Built by Pakistanis sends a chill shiver up my spine. It can (of course) submerge, but will it come back up? |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2005-09-20 13:06 |