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Europe
Scholar warns against putting Islamic spin on French riots
2005-11-08
LONDON - From his current vantage point at Oxford University, Muslim scholar Tariq Ramadan cautions against putting an Islamic spin to the unrest that has swept France’s downtrodden surburbs.
"No, no, certainly not!"
In an interview with AFP, Ramadan said the French authorities will need to embrace a more sophisticated approach if they want to respond effectively to the rioting that has run for a dozen nights straight. “In all that is happening, there are of course groups who are in it for pure vandalism, for wild violence,” said the scholar, named by Time magazine as one of the leading thinkers of the 21st century but barred from the United States.

“But the phenomenon doesn’t stop there,” he added, citing ”objective events” involving the relationship between those living in the grim suburban housing projects and French society as a whole. “People (in the suburbs) have the impression that they count for nothing, that they can be looked down upon and insulted in any way.”
That's true.
He added: “We’re in the process of losing a footing in the suburbs. Even so-called Muslim associations are more and more disconnected. The fracture is profound... We are seeing an Americanisation in terms of violence.”
No, you're seeing something that is typically European. America didn't invent the ghetto.
“Above all, one must not Islamisize the question of the suburbs,” Ramadan stressed. “The question that France must answer is absolutely not a question of religion.”
Thumping a few moose-limbs, however, might calm things down a bit.
Asked where the roots of the malaise lie, Ramadan said the entire political class in France has been “blind” to what has been happening in the suburbs, with their unemployed youth of Arab and African origin and bleak high-rises. “There’s an obsession about a religious divide, but no one sees the socio-economic divide in France, with places in the process of becoming ghettos with the suburbs on one side, the better-off areas on the other.”

“There must be a struggle against this institutionalised racism. There are second-class citizens in France. That is the reality.”

Ramadan, the grandson of Hassan al-Bana, founder of the influentual Muslim Brotherhood movement in the 1920s, said there needs to be a return to order: “Violence is not a solution and sanctions must be taken against gangs.” But he said that security measures can only be part of a broader policy, one that addresses the core of social problems. “We need a modern-day Jaures,” he said, referring to Jean Jaures, the pioneering French socialist politician at the turn of the 20th century.

“It was Jaures who said that the religious question must be filed away so that one can focus on the social question. The unity of France is a myth in socio-economic terms, and the question of faith is not the problem.”
But filing away the religious question allowed the French to stuff the Berbers and Arabs into ghettoes without any qualms.
It would also help to keep a lid on “counterproductive” speech, said Ramadan, who recalled Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy’s description of the rioters as “scum”. “It’s not by insulting one part of France that you can protect the other.”
Which is why the French are doomed not to fix the problem, since they can't talk about it.
Posted by:Steve White

#16  The underlying problem in France is it's economic model.

While that certainly doesn't help the situation I'd argue that the last 14 centuries have shown us that the main underlying problem is Islam's utter inability to peacefully coexist with other cultures.
Posted by: AzCat   2005-11-08 22:30  

#15  "How nightmarish is the idea of a panel including Ramadan, Ward Churchill and Al Sharpton?"

Super Hose - better hope that freak show comes with gibberish-translating subtitles!
Posted by: Hyper   2005-11-08 16:47  

#14  "We are seeing an Americanisation in terms of violence.” Oh right. Blame America. But what did we expect from a Moslem "scholar?"

DoDo's right--not enough jobs for the Frenchies. No one is allowed to work more than 30 or 35 hours per week according to their laws (think that's right). Anyway, their failing economy can't accomodate a bunch of spoiled brat young men who feel sorry for themselves, even if there were jobs.

All this can be traced to a failure in parenting--especially in connection with the fathers. Same problems exist in black America, with largely the same results, except that our law enforcement is better.
Posted by: ex-lib   2005-11-08 16:47  

#13  Unfortunately, he is in many ways correct. The underlying problem in France is it's economic model. A statist socialistic economy cannot produce the jobs necessary to employ its people, regardless of race or religion. Chirac can make all the pleasant noises he wants, but France cannot deliver real jobs.

For Time magazine to name Mr. Ramadan a leading thinker he must also be leftist. He therefore would not bring up this unpleasant economic fact in his analysis.
Posted by: DoDo   2005-11-08 15:00  

#12  "We are seeing an Americanisation in terms of violence."

He'd better hope they don't see Frenchification in terms of violence.

Guess this so-called "scholar" doesn't know anything about the French Revolution (or labor unions, for that matter). Violence extraordinaire - and l'guillotine, too. Bet there are more than a few Frenchies around who know how to use both.
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut   2005-11-08 14:03  

#11  "The fracture is profound... We are seeing an Americanisation in terms of violence."

You just knew they would get around to this sooner or later.

Posted by: DepotGuy   2005-11-08 12:41  

#10  named by Time magazine as one of the leading thinkers of the 21st century but barred from the United States.


Absolutely shocking!
Posted by: Besoeker   2005-11-08 09:33  

#9  I sincerely hope that in the not too distant future the French teach them something about cause and effect, to wit: cause: rioting; effect, 7.62 bullet to center of mass, followed by 7.62 bullet to head from close range, delivered by French paratrooper. Repeat example as needed.
Posted by: mac   2005-11-08 09:31  

#8  The economic divide might narrow some if the car-torching Muslim youth focused on getting western education and mastering the local language and etiquette. Colin Powell, Condi Rice, and Clarence Thomas didn't get to where they are in life by joining the Black Panthers or the Nation of Islam.

Next year these Muslim youth will be angered that the local shopkeepers have moved away. Cause and effect are not in the basics of Muslim education.
Posted by: Darrell   2005-11-08 09:18  

#7  Oh come on now. The poor upset rioting buggers are trying to integrate in as much as large scale civil strife, riots and strikes are a somewhat common thing for alot of Frenchmen. They are just trying to fit in.
Posted by: MunkarKat   2005-11-08 08:31  

#6  Actually, SH, it sounds to me like a great target of opportunity for an air strike...
Posted by: mac   2005-11-08 08:23  

#5  I am glad they denied him a VISA. Hearing Ramadan potificate this type of hooey 24-7 on CNN and MSMBC would dramatically increase the chances of me shorting out my television by projectile vomitting across the family room. How nightmarish is the idea of a panel including Ramadan, Ward Churchill and Al Sharpton?
Posted by: Super Hose   2005-11-08 08:00  

#4  Spot on Mac...
Posted by: nockeyes nilsworth   2005-11-08 07:11  

#3  He's right. They shouldn't be second-class citizens in France. They should be second-class (or worse) citizens in ALGERIA!!! Ship these rioting Muzzy bastards back, all of them, and the sooner the better. And send their families with them. When the last mosque in France is dynamited and the rubble cleared away for something useful to be built, France can begin to breath easily again. Not until.
Posted by: mac   2005-11-08 06:35  

#2  â€œThere must be a struggle against this institutionalised racism. There are second-class citizens in France. That is the reality.”

Per usual for the egghead crowd there's a kernel of truth at the bottom of the big steaming pile of dung.
Posted by: AzCat   2005-11-08 04:37  

#1  Class a horse crap. Religion is part of the picture. Ignoring that is pointless. This fellow isn't worth listening to.
Posted by: Sock Puppet O´ Doom   2005-11-08 00:52  

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