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| Europe | |
| Damage done: riots have tarnished France's image | |
| 2005-11-12 | |
Blazing cars, street battles and a powderkeg mix of racism and chronic immigrant unemployment: the image of France as shown around the world by two weeks of riots has hardly been the stuff of tourist dreams. Beamed live from Hong Kong to Washington via London, the unrest has put an unforgiving spotlight on a side of society rarely seen outside a nation that, like any other, seeks to cast a cultural, social and political aura. In the United States, comparisons have been drawn between the unrest in the poor, high-immigrant neighbourhoods with race riots of the 1960s and 1980s. Other commentators have spoken of scenes akin to Chechnya, still others of the possibility of Islamic extremists stoking the fires. It has not chimed with the reality on the ground, but still, nightly scenes of violence played on television have shocked and surprised. "It's quite scary, quite frightening to think that that's happening on our doorstep," said Jo Lawrence, an accountant in London. She said it reminded her of the troubles in Northern Ireland. "Perhaps I'm ignorant, but I had no idea that was going on," she told AFP. In Paris, some expatriates have reported getting calls from their relatives back home asking if they were safe. But for many analysts, the violence has above all exposed an underclass of angry, immigrant youths with little hope and even fewer job prospects, locked in a vaunted system of social integration that has failed them. "France is sending a lot of negative signals right at this moment," Aurore Wanlin, at the Centre for European Reform in London, told AFP. The riots showed "the French model doesn't protect those who aren't already part of the system." In USA Today, an opinion piece said the "civil disobedience should serve as lessons to neighboring countries on how not to treat a minority population." The violence, the worst France has seen since the 1968 student revolt, has seen more than 6,600 vehicles torched and dozens of buses, schools, gymnasiums, nurseries, libraries, shops and businesses destroyed in arson attacks. Laurence Parisot, leader of the French employers' organisation Medef, said the country's image was being "deeply damaged." She warned of "very serious" effects for the economy, notably sectors such as restaurant and hotel businesses and tourism, which rely heavily on foreign visitors. In the United States, outspoken commentator Bill O'Reilly, whose show runs on the conservative Fox television network, said the violence "makes Hurricane Katrina look like a comic book." For nearly two weeks, he said, French president Jacques Chirac "has allowed the insurrection to build in ferocity, refusing to use his military, allowing anarchy in the streets." He was not the only one to refer to the hurricane that pounded the US Gulf coast at the end of August, and which exposed what many critics charged was a lingering racial divide in Washington's response to the devastation. "The French had a field day with Hurricane Katrina ... when that confirmed their prejudices about Americans," said Jean-Benoit Nadeau, a Canadian who has co-authored a book on French society. "Today, the Anglo-Saxon press is having a field day with what is happening in France because it also confirms prejudices about French society." Not just in the English-speaking world. "The France of the 21st century makes you think of the ancien régime," said Thomas Schidinger of Vienna's Institute of Political Studies, referring to the pre-revolutionary era of wealthy nobility and impoverished populations. "It's as if the people in power are saying, a little like Marie-Antoinette, 'not got a job? Take a holiday then'." In the Arab world, where satellite stations like Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya have given the riots wide coverage, commentators have focused on longstanding social malaise, unemployment and alienation among immigrants. "The image of France in the Arab world, which is very positive with regard to its positions on the conflicts in the Middle East and Irak, is not going to emerge unscathed," said Hasni Abidi, who is director of a centre for Arab and Mediterranean studies in Geneva. "We are seeing the failure of France's integration policy," he said. And in Sweden, Prime Minister Goeran Persson ignored diplomacy to criticise the French government's decision to permit curfews in riot-hit regions. "Very dramatic," he said, "something I haven't seen in Europe for the past 30 or 40 years." | |
| Posted by:lotp |
| #23 ...and when the 5th Republic falls, we have what? Countdown to Kosovo in 5, 4, 3, 2, ... |
| Posted by: Jim 2005-11-12 20:39 |
| #22 a new Crusades! |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-11-12 17:58 |
| #21 hmmm...don't really disagree, but I just don't see us wresting military control of France. I think Germany and all of the other European countries have to be put into play here too as they have a far greater stake in what happens in France than we do. While Belgium will just roll, I'm not so sure about Germany and the others. Depending on how violent current events play out in France, we are going to see changes in the way the other European countries respond to their own immigration/terrorist problems. It will change the way we address our own. Like after 911, these riots have already changed the course of future events in ways we can not yet predict. The bottom line is this: Terrorist states are going to get access to nukes. Take your pick of North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, SA ..etc. It's just a matter of time. By the time France falls to Islam, if it ever does, there will be plenty of rogue states with nukes - so we will have to find other ways to fight the threat than to just relying on MAD...which simply won't work with Jihadis. Other than providing arms and assistance to ordinary French citizens should they ever choose to revolt - I don't ever see us doing anything different than our current menu choice for countries like Iran and Korea. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-11-12 17:58 |
| #20 lol. |
| Posted by: Snavitle Hupitle4157 2005-11-12 17:48 |
| #19 There is already a plan in place in the Pentagon's Special Planning Division for dealing with a France that has been overthrown and whose nuclear weapons have been taken by hostile forces : cleansing by "bottled sunshine". In other words, we get to nuke a European state. |
| Posted by: Shieldwolf 2005-11-12 17:43 |
| #18 Frank, the intervention I was alluding to wasn't of the "invited" sort. If push comes to shove, better that we forcibly wrest control of France from the hands of Islamists than permit them such a catastrophic victory over Western interests. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2005-11-12 17:16 |
| #17 Chirac's already toast...I hope De Villepin also goes up in flames (is he a man?), so to speak. The question I have is whether a rightist (not Le Pen) will take over and put down the urban guerrillas, or will the same weak shit be continued. We will have to let them twist in teh wind - it'll be a cold day in hell before the French welcome or ask for our intervention in their "internal affairs"......perhaps there's an American Lafayette? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-11-12 16:57 |
| #16 All fine points, lotp. I have great difficulty seeing where outside help can be of any avail when it comes to resolving the issues confronting France. French eliteism is largely responsible for creating the underclass that now besets them. As Old Patriot mentioned in the "The next revolt on French estates will use military weapons" thread; "The Muslim immigrants CANNOT make such adaptations because their culture claims that's "apostacy". They also don't WANT to make that adaptation, and the idiot French refuse to accept those who do try." Perhaps it is here where we get to the crux of the matter. France and Islam represent two of the most ingrown chauvinistic cultural motifs on the face of this earth, possibly exceeded only by the Chinese. Muslims obdurately refuse to assimilate at the cost of even one iota of their calcified throwback religion's tenets and France has shown itself to be entirely incapable of embracing anything not French. These two monopoles are on a catastrophic collision course and the recent riots are merely separated rails that foretell the horrendous trainwreck to come. 1. France is a nuclear power with nuclear weapons. This one single point may serve to indicate where America's best interests lie. Possession of nuclear weapons aside. Should Islamists somehow manage to gain ascendancy and impose sharia law in France it would serve the ends of jihadist terrorism like nothing else imaginable. The occupation of Iraq pales in comparison with respect to being a putative recruiting tool. Such encouragement would redouble Islamist terrorism against the West. Add into this equation accession to nuclear weapons and it becomes obvious that external military intervention would most likely be the outcome if France succumbed to Islamist control. If Chirac cannot put his house in order his days are numbered. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2005-11-12 16:05 |
| #15 the thing is, lopt, that there really isn't anything we can do to help France at this point. Helping France would do no more good at this point than giving an alcoholic a drink to help rid them of the shakes. It doesn't solve the underlying illness. They have to save themselves. Sometimes the change has to come from within. Besides, what would you propose we do? There is nothing we can do at this point to help them. First they have to acknowlege that they have a problem and they haven't come close to hitting rock bottom yet. |
| Posted by: 2b 2005-11-12 15:48 |
| #14 Repeat after me: 1. France is a nuclear power with nuclear weapons. 2. France is still a major economic power, if declining; one of the Group of 7. #. In France, control of economic, political, military and nuclear power is highly centralized. Whoever is in power controls it all with very few checks and balances. Therefore, it is not in our interests to have France collapse and be taken over by Islamacists any sooner than is inevitable, if it is inevitable. |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-11-12 14:59 |
| #13 Damage done: riots have tarnished France's image I'm shocked, shocked I say, that no one here caught this glaring bit of puffery. Perhaps France has been exposed to the Muslim mindset for so long that they, too, now encounter similar difficulty with that most enigmatic of scientific principles. Once again, it's that troublesome old Cause & Effect thingummy. While the riots have done nothing to help France's prestige, they are not the central factor in tarnishing its image. The riots are the EFFECT, not the cause. Chirac and his nancy-boy toadies have proven incapable of stiffening their wrists sufficiently to slap down a blatant threat to the public weal. Therein lies the true CAUSE. The actual roots go quite a bit deeper, as hinted at by the article's mention of how; "The France of the 21st century makes you think of the ancien régime," said Thomas Schidinger of Vienna's Institute of Political Studies, referring to the pre-revolutionary era of wealthy nobility and impoverished populations." A consistent hallmark of most socialist governments is how they usually mask either a flagrant kleptocracy (communist China, Soviet Russia), or serve the ends of a more subtle yet entrenched power structure (Cuba, Vietnam). All of which, in reality, boils down to ensconcing an elite class in wealth and luxury whilst the toiling masses do exactly that. France's insufferable cultural chauvinism has let them breathe their own exhaust long enough to where they thought they could do no wrong. Its elitist government, saw in their arrogated privilege and erstwhile success, clear proof that (for them) there could be no better policy. Mirroring this eliteism, a troublesome underclass has reared its head to spoil the feast. We are now treated to the sordid spectacle of politicians whose reflexes have long adapted to picking Beluga caviar off of their truffled foie gras being confronted with the nasty heavy lifting involved with actual leadership. It is this profound leadership vacuum that has truly "tarnished France's image". France's Muslim rioters are merely the reciprocal manifestation of rudderless helmsmanship steering according to a long demagnetized moral compass. |
| Posted by: Zenster 2005-11-12 14:59 |
| #12 It's OK to bitch about them, I love to rant, but the issue of Muslim insurgency in France needs a committed approach and one in concert with her neighbors and friends. I disagree. IIRC, it was Dominique de Villepin, who is a man, who told Colin Powell in the run up to Iraq that if we break it, we bought it; i.e. the US can expect no help from France if it invades Iraq. It seems to me that the same applies on this occasion. Turn about being fair play and all that. |
| Posted by: Scott R 2005-11-12 14:54 |
| #11 I am. |
| Posted by: lotp 2005-11-12 14:50 |
| #10 If the French are like family, they're like the distant relative who did something helpful 50 years ago for purely selfish reasons but must still be invited to Thanksgiving because the senile grandmother wants every one to be there even though no one else does. I'm not sure whether we would be worse off with a France run by Mohammedans, especially if the Franks aren't willing to fight for it. |
| Posted by: Fligum Grise3267 2005-11-12 12:42 |
| #9 Like it or not, France is family to America, just go look in NY harbor. It angers me more when family screws up, and the French govt is screwing this up. Just like Clinton letting UBL get out of control, this has been let go for too long. This clash will spread to other nations and now France will have a generation of struggle to get this under control. It's OK to bitch about them, I love to rant, but the issue of Muslim insurgency in France needs a committed approach and one in concert with her neighbors and friends. |
| Posted by: 49 pan 2005-11-12 12:00 |
| #8 damn...and we all had such positive thoughts before. Admit it. I say "French waiter" and politeness and a toothy smile come to mind, right? |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-11-12 11:55 |
| #7 Naw, I thought France sucked well before the riots started. |
| Posted by: DMFD 2005-11-12 11:19 |
| #6 "Sometimes I hate this laptop. ;)" It's not the laptop. It's an interface problem between the seat and keyboard. |
| Posted by: Mr. Peanut 2005-11-12 09:25 |
| #5 "Image" is one of those bogus concepts touted by those for whom "image is everything". They cannot imagine anything worse than having a down arrow associated with your name in the 'Trends' section of the newspaper. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2005-11-12 09:15 |
| #4 Sometimes I hate this laptop. ;) |
| Posted by: AzCat 2005-11-12 08:02 |
| #3 Damage done: riots have tarnished France's image More like corrected. |
| Posted by: AzCat 2005-11-12 08:01 |
| #2 Damage done: riots have tarnished France's image |
| Posted by: AzCat 2005-11-12 08:01 |
| #1 Damage done: riots have tarnished France's image |
| Posted by: AzCat 2005-11-12 08:01 |