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| Fifth Column |
| Defeaticrats at home and in Iraq (Steyn) |
| 2005-12-16 |
| Hands up, everyone who thinks Iraqâs a quagmire. Not the Iraqi people: According to the latest polls, 70 percent think âlife is good,â and 69 percent are optimistic that things will get even better in the year ahead. For purposes of comparison, they took a similar poll in Europe a while back: In France, 29 percent said they were optimistic about the future; in Germany, 15 percent. Sixty-three percent of Iraqis say they feel âvery safeâ in their own neighborhoods, which is more than the residents of Clichy-sous-Bois can say. Well, OK, those cheerful Iraqis are probably Shiites and Kurds and whatnot. How about the Sunnis? For a small minority group that held a disproportionate and repressive grip on power for decades, theyâve been getting a more solicitous press from Western âliberalsâ than the white Rhodesians or South Africaâs National party ever got. But it turns out, after their strategically disastrous decision to stay home in last Januaryâs vote, the Sunnis are participating in Iraqâs democratic process ... . Oh, OK, so the Shiites and Kurds and Sunnis are feeling chipper, but in the broader Middle East the disastrous neocon invasion has inflamed moderate Arab opinion against America. Well, itâs true the explosive Arab street finally exploded the other day â with 200,000 Jordanians protesting in Amman, waving angry banners and yelling, âBurn in hell, Rumsfeld,â and, âYou are a coward, Bush.â Whoops, my mistake: They were yelling, âBurn in hell, Zarqawi,â and, âYou are a coward, Zarqawi.â If you want to hear someone yelling, âYou are a coward, Bush,â youâve got to go to Cindy Sheehanâs stakeout. And, in fairness to the network news divisions, it may be because so many of their camera crews have taken up permanent residence at the otherwise underpopulated Camp Cindy that they were unable to cover what was the largest demonstration against terrorism ever seen on the streets of the Middle East. Oh, well. So the Shiites and Kurds and Sunni Iraqis and the Arab street are all on board, but come on, what about the insurgents? Everybody knows theyâre winning ... but, er, apparently they donât. The Baathist diehard insurgents have split from the foreign al-Qaida insurgents. While the latter denounced the Iraqi election as âa Satanic project,â the Saddamite remnants urged Sunnis to participate and said theyâd protect polling stations from attacks by the foreign terrorists so that citizens could vote for their approved candidates (the leftover bits of Uday and Qusay, now running on the Psychotic Dictatorship Nostalgia Party ticket). This division between the foreign nutcakes and the domestic nutcakes is the biggest strategic split over the insurgency since Joe Lieberman respectfully distanced himself from Nancy Pelosi. On the other hand, this does belatedly prove the anti-war crowdâs long-held view that Saddamâs secular Baathists and Osamaâs theocrat terrorists would never collaborate, even if it took until last month for the participants themselves to get wise to it. And, alas, unlike the Dems with Hillary, in the Sunni Triangle thereâs no Sunni triangulator to craft a more nuanced position to hold both the Lieberbaathist and Pelosama wings together. So the Shiites, Kurds, Sunnis, the Arab street, and the Baath party have figured Iraqi democracyâs winning. That leaves al-Qaida. Well, not exactly: Ayman Zawahiri, the No. 2 honcho in al-Qaida while theyâre maintaining the polite fiction that bin Ladenâs still functioning, recently rapped terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi ... called on him to cut out killings that âthe masses do not understand or approve.â ... So the Shiites, Kurds, Sunnis, the Arab street, the Baath party and bin Ladenâs deputy think the insurgencyâs a bust. Hands up, who thinks itâs winning? ... It was famously said that the Vietnam War was lost on television. In this instance, the Iraq Warâs being lost only on television. In Iraq, itâs a tremendous victory. Indeed, it has the potential to be one of the most consequential, transformative victories of the modern age; but even if it doesnât ever fulfill that potential, itâs still a huge success. |
| Posted by:Bobby |
| #35 skunk 1. Any of several small, mostly carnivorous New World mammals of the genus Mephitis and related genera, having a bushy tail and black fur with white markings and ejecting a foul-smelling oily liquid from glands near the anus when frightened or in danger. Also called polecat. 2. Slang. 1. A person regarded as obnoxious or despicable. 2. A person whose company is avoided. Synonyms: rotter, rat, stinker, stinkpot, bum, puke, crumb, lowlife, scum bag, so-and-so Don't feed them, they are worse than moombats! |
| Posted by: SwissTex 2005-12-16 17:35 |
| #34 LA, you stupid, ignorant, fuck, in case you hadn't notice we are winning the WOT. And at a, relatively speaking, minimal (through high) cost. (That is realtive to any other war in the history of the world - any death is tragic and a high cost.) Reality is that it is not a quagmire. It is not a Vietnam. No matter how much Katic Curic, and the rest of the MSM wishes it would be. I hate to tell you this but this isn't 1969 where the media controlled all that you see and hear. People can investigate themselves. People (who are actually there) can bypass the MSM filters (only bad news allowed!) and publish their own articles. What do you expect the Polls to say when the terorist's allies (the MSM and the Left) have been only broadcasting the negative for a couple of years now. When was the last report on the network news of the new schools, hospitals, and infrastructure -- yet they harp on a 1 night incident at a prison by some malcontent idiots for over a year. Yes there are probaly sleeper cells in the USA. They haven't been too effective have they? That is what the Patriot Act provision are for. The same act the LEFT is trying its damnest to gut to help *their* side defeat american so they can rise to power. As for illegal ALIENS (I refuse to give them the title 'immigrants') - well that is one thing we can agree on - we need to seal our borders against *all* illegal entry - and kick out all illegal ALIENS (not to mention deny citizenship to those born of an illegal ALIEN parent. Mexican, American, English, Martian, and any others. There is a proper legal process for immigrating to the United States. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2005-12-16 17:29 |
| #33 Left Angle you say, "Only a complete idiot would think otherwise." Well, first of all, you don't know me, so you don't know that I'm not a complete idiot, and you just called me one. I'm not. And I do think otherwise. You just blew your entire data for your talking points with that statement. Good debate is fun, name calling, well, maybe that is just for complete idiots. Thanks for listening. |
| Posted by: Sherry 2005-12-16 17:28 |
| #32 you'd feel safer if a Donk was in power, wouldn't ya? Like Bill and Hill's secure nation. LA is nothing but a partisan liar and coward, don't feed it |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-12-16 17:28 |
| #31 Intinsicpilot: Yeah and you have to be one brainwashed ignorant mf to believe that all the insurgents are members of Al Qaeda, which is far from the truth. Just a note of "reality" to you. The FBI and the CIA testified before Congress last year that terrorist cells are in the U.S. as we speak. Also the U.S. has pourous open borders in which millions of illegal aliens are pouring into this country yearly. Do YOU know what there motives are for being here? Hell no I dont feel safer. Only a complete idiot would think otherwise. |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 17:06 |
| #30 "The bottom line is that despite what President Bush and his supporters would have you believe, not a single thing going on in Iraq is going to stop another terrorist attack on the domestic U.S." LA, you have to be a frickin' stupid MF to think that killing 10's of thousands of Al Qaeda in Iraq has not made us safer. Frankly our efforts in Iraq have been the best possible thing we could have ever done. These terrorists have streamed into Iraq from all over the arab world, europe, asia etc. to fight us there. What's your plan smart guy? Go into Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Chechnya? I could list off dozens of countries that have had AQ terrorists leave to fight us in Iraq. You think eliminating these guys from the planet hasn't made us safer. You are an outright nut job! Frankly, not only being a very wise military action, this Iraq war has been the biggest humanitarian effort in the history of the world. Other countries are thanking us behind closed doors for getting these AQ terrs off their streets. |
| Posted by: Intrinsicpilot 2005-12-16 16:31 |
| #29 "The bottom line is...not a single thing going on in Iraq is going to stop another terrorist attack on the domestic U.S." Sadly there are many people that actually believe that. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2005-12-16 16:06 |
| #28 "Frankly, I could care less about what is going on in Iraq." Obviously. "You true believer repub/con believers keep attaching yourselves to a sinking ship. It's fun to watch." There is a major political party imploding before our eyes, but it ain't the Repubs. It is satisfying in a way, for those of us who believe their position on Iraq has been close to treasonous in many respects (i.e. Ted Kennedy et al), to see them reap the rewards of their actions. It isn't fun in the long run, tho, cuz we need two functioning parties, not just one. |
| Posted by: docob 2005-12-16 14:53 |
| #27 Ernest Brown: I asked you a perfectly legitimate question above and you refuse to answer it. If you are so smart and "nuanced" as you say, why dont you answer a simple question to prove it? |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 14:01 |
| #26 "Hey we must of had some good news thew trolls are back." Precisely, the Iraqis are farther along with rebuilding their government and military than the West Germans were at the same point in time after WWII. Jerks like LeftSquirt are like spoiled brats who want to stick their heads in the sand and go back to a 9/10 ostrich mentality. They've got no "nuanced" understanding of the over-arching Islamofascist mentality and no patience for the fact that Al Queda won't blow up and disappear like a James Bond movie villan's HQ even if we confirmably kill Osama. Childish, through and through. |
| Posted by: Ernest Brown 2005-12-16 13:53 |
| #25 Hey we must of had some good news thew trolls are back :) |
| Posted by: djohn66 2005-12-16 13:46 |
| #24 Swartz: I agree with your time frame for pullout. What I dont like is when Bush talks about "staying the course" & "victory" he is being very vague. Does he actually believe that the american public will put up with the tremendous cost $$$, continued casualties/deaths of U.S. military indefinitely? I believe he does and if he continues along this road he and his political party are destined to pay a huge price. |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 13:45 |
| #23 Why not explain why the majority of the U.S. public isnt buying into the Bush/Rove propaganda. In case you havent noticed most if not all of the major polls show americans have turned against Bush's phony war in Iraq. You true believer repub/con believers keep attaching yourselves to a sinking ship. It's fun to watch. Last time I heard talk like this was right before the "democrats" lost an election. |
| Posted by: BH 2005-12-16 13:39 |
| #22 All of that will occur within two to five years by my estimations. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-12-16 13:38 |
| #21 Indefinately is a long time but I wouldn't mind having a base there as long as we've had them in Germany and Japan assuming the Iraqi's are willing. A victory in Iraq is the point when the Iraq's take over the patrols and our bases are used primarily as air support/fire support or as a defense against neighbors. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-12-16 13:37 |
| #20 Ernest Brown: I asked you a question earlier and you never answered. So, I will ask you once more: Do you believe that the U.S. military should stay in Iraq indefinitely and how do you define "victory" there that will allow redeployment of U.S. forces? |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 13:31 |
| #19 Facts!!!!! What facts???? LA are you in the military?? Do you have any intelligence background?? you need to check your FACTS before you blurt a bunch of left wing CRAP!! |
| Posted by: ARMYGUY 2005-12-16 13:28 |
| #18 Blah, Blah Blah..same ole weak assed rnc talking points... Why not explain why the majority of the U.S. public isnt buying into the Bush/Rove propaganda. In case you havent noticed most if not all of the major polls show americans have turned against Bush's phony war in Iraq. You true believer repub/con believers keep attaching yourselves to a sinking ship. It's fun to watch. |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 13:22 |
| #17 Maybe we should all be like Pres Bush: If you dont like "reality" create YOUR OWN!!! LOL Posted by Left Angle The primary reasons for Bush invading Iraq have been proven to be false. No "huge caches of wmd's or a reconstituted nuclear program" have been found, Sadaam Hussien was never a "imminent threat" to the U.S., there was absolutely no link between Hussien, Al Qaeda and the events of 9-11-01, and finally the U.S. is not "safer" because of his removal. Posted by: Left Angle Seems you are creating your own reality here. Bush was very specific that we should not wait until the threat becomes immenant, he never said the threat was imminet yet you repeat this strawman as if its reality. WMD was one of 14 reasons the Congress voted on. The fact that it was emphasised by Powell and the press does not make it the main reason nor does it invalidate the other 13 reasons. And lastly Bush never made the connection between Iraq and Al Queda although there is books worth of evidence that such a connection existed. Perhaps you shouldn't be throwing stones until you've checked up on all your facts first. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2005-12-16 13:02 |
| #16 We're winning several wars simultaneously: #1 Batthist/al Q/ & assoiates gettin they're ass kicked in Iraq big time. #2 Afghanistan great progress. #3 General WOT, going pretty well. #3 MSM getting they're ass kicked on a regular basis. #4 Dhimmicrats and their fellow treason travelers: I believe were making progress, much work left to do. |
| Posted by: Red Dog 2005-12-16 12:32 |
| #15 Bush never claimed Saddam was an imminent threat. In fact he went out of his way to say he wasn't. Bush did say that we should act before Saddam became an imminent threat. Just like you would try to disable a killer before he points his gun at your (or your child's) head. And hell Saddam had practically an entire year to pack up his labs and shit and ship them elsewhere. We do know he did, at one time, have a chemical warfare program - go ask the Kurds. |
| Posted by: CrazyFool 2005-12-16 12:09 |
| #14 No, LeftBrainless, that would assume that a non-parroted sentience exists between your ears. "The existance of the terrorist training facility, complete with the fuselage of a 747 aircraft, at Salman Pak disagrees with your assertions." FOTSGreg, You're dealing with the spiritual child of Walter Duranty and David Irving. Facts mean nothing to those determined to glorify totalitarian tyranny at the cost of moral self-castration. "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."- Dr. Johnson |
| Posted by: Ernest Brown 2005-12-16 12:08 |
| #13 Ernest Brown: Are you speaking to me? |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 12:01 |
| #12 The primary reasons for Bush invading Iraq have been proven to be false. No "huge caches of wmd's or a reconstituted nuclear program" have been found, Sadaam Hussien was never a "imminent threat" to the U.S., there was absolutely no link between Hussien, Al Qaeda and the events of 9-11-01, and finally the U.S. is not "safer" because of his removal. The 911 Commission disagrees with the last part of your statement. Saddam's military was issued gear to protect them from chemical and bio-weapons so that, in and of itself, disagrees with your assertions. The existance of the terrorist training facility, complete with the fuselage of a 747 aircraft, at Salman Pak disagrees with your assertions. In short, it would appear that all of your assertions can be shown to be factually false including the existance of wmd in Iraq prior to the war (multiple sources say that it was trucked over the border into Syria) with the sole exception that no wmd were found in Iraq (to date) and even that is factually incorrect. It would be more correct to state that no large quiantities of wmd were found in Iraq as there have been some finds, but these have been small and they have been quickly covered up by the leftist media outlets in order to give their (and your) slanted bias against Republicans in general more weight. Your reality is obviously what you have make it. I feel sorry for you because of that. |
| Posted by: FOTSGreg 2005-12-16 11:59 |
| #11 It has no connection to what happened on 9-11-01. Actually, it does. Want to hear it in bin Laden's own words? This is from his 1996 fatwa urging 'Jihad Against the Americans': First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples. Seven years from 1996 coincides with Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and the first Persian Gulf War. bin Laden was ticked that the US had bases in his 'holy' litter box, Saudi Arabia, from which we maintained the no-fly zones. One of the direct results of OIF was that the US was able to move its forces out of the Magic Kingdumb. We addressed the root causes, just as the moonbats demanded. |
| Posted by: BH 2005-12-16 11:55 |
| #10 Yeah, that's why Al-Queda is ignoring the whole setup as being immaterial to its JihadiJoe vision. Why don't you go back to grovelling at the feet of Patsy the Racist Filth-Pig Buchanan, LeftBrainless? |
| Posted by: Ernest Brown 2005-12-16 11:52 |
| #9 seafarious: Frankly, I could care less about what is going on in Iraq. If they care so much about democracy then they should have gotten rid of Hussien long ago before U.S. intervention. It has no connection to what happened on 9-11-01. Nor is anything going on over there is going to stop a domestic terrorist attack on the U.S. If you buy into Bush/Rove propaganda on that then you do have a problem with "reality". |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 11:23 |
| #8 LA, you just congratulated the Iraqis on their election. Apparently the ability for the Iraqis to vote just materialized out of nowhere. Saddam resigned his dictatorship and went off to peacefully tend his rosebushes and go out on the former heads of state speaking tour. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2005-12-16 11:14 |
| #7 seafarious: Maybe we should all be like Pres Bush: If you dont like "reality" create YOUR OWN!!! LOL |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 10:52 |
| #6 Thanks again, LA. We out here in fantasyland need a dose of "reality" once in awhile. Especially with quotes around it. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2005-12-16 10:50 |
| #5 Reality-based commentor watch. |
| Posted by: Seafarious 2005-12-16 10:44 |
| #4 tu: My post wasnt meant as enlightenment, just a call to repubs/cons to deal with "reality" and quit buying into Bush/Rove bs propaganda on "staying the course" and "critism of the my Iraq policies is detrimental to troop moral". |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 10:41 |
| #3 Thanks, Left Angle. We haven't heard any of that before around here. Appreciate the enlightenment. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2005-12-16 10:33 |
| #2 Good for the Iraqi's. I congratulate them on their vote yesterday. If millions of them can get out to vote, then an equal number of them should take up the cause of defending their emerging democracy without U.S. assistance. It is time for them to take up the cause, because if they care so much about its' implementation, they should be able to squash the insurgents. The bottom line is that despite what President Bush and his supporters would have you believe, not a single thing going on in Iraq is going to stop another terrorist attack on the domestic U.S. The primary reasons for Bush invading Iraq have been proven to be false. No "huge caches of wmd's or a reconstituted nuclear program" have been found, Sadaam Hussien was never a "imminent threat" to the U.S., there was absolutely no link between Hussien, Al Qaeda and the events of 9-11-01, and finally the U.S. is not "safer" because of his removal. Now is the time for the Iraqi's to stand up and take the reigns of leadership and defense of their country as the U.S. military stands down in a gradual redeployment of forces. |
| Posted by: Left Angle 2005-12-16 10:15 |
| #1 They are winning, we are losing! Howard Dean said so! So it must be true! Its turning into a quagmire, we are on the brink of disaster! And to make it worse I hear interest rates are going to go up. It's the corporations! Quagmire! Quagmire! (fades to black) |
| Posted by: Loud mouth liberal 2005-12-16 09:47 |