.com : Iraq: My Ayatollah Can Beat Up Your Ayatollah
...but then such a battle has to be promoted properly...
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| Iraq |
| New Iraq Parliament Chin Deep In Happy Horse Trading |
| 2005-12-26 |
| (Hat Tip: Iraq the Model blog) It's become clear from the active shuttle-like movement of the rival parties and mediators that the intensity of the political crisis began to subside compared to how things looked like a week ago. In spite of the violence that disturbed Baghdad this morning, the rival parties resumed their meetings and talks with some politicians playing the role of mediators; the most prominent of whom is President Talabani and even in the two main competing camps we're hearing moderate voices emerge to propose solutions like the Virtue Party from the UIA and al-Mutlaq from Maram. There's another dispute taking place within the UIA itself about who gets to be the new PM. The Sadrists are objecting to the SCIRIâs nomination of Aadil Abdulmahdi. The Sadrists want Jafari to keep his position because he promised them 7 seats in the cabinet including deputy PM. The Sadrists organized at least two demonstrations in Kadhimiya and Sadr city and appeared carrying pictures of Jafari and demanding that he keeps his position. However, the SCIRI seems determined to go on with nominating Abdulmahdi who the Sunni are relatively more ready to tolerate. Perhaps one of the most significant meetings that took place yesterday was that of al-Mutlaq with Abdulaziz al-Hakeem; none of the men made clear public statements but al-Mutlaq said later that âeveryone is planning to form a national unity governmentâ and he revealed a suggestion to hold new elections within six months under Arab and international monitoring and he said that âwe have proposed this to the UIA and the suggestion also includes disbanding the militias and forbidding the use of religious symbols and mosques for electoral campaigningâŠâ but he didnât say what the response of the UIA was. On the other hand, al-Hakeem is expected to head to Kurdistan today to have a meeting with Talabani and Barzani to discuss the shape of the government and the developments of the election results talks. Khalilzad will probably be there too to attend the meeting. A leading figure from the Accord Front told al-Sabah on condition of anonymity that the Front is asking for ten seats to be reallocated from the UIA to them in return for pulling back the Frontâs objections to the results, al-Sabahâs report mention that Talabani is pushing in this direction too. Meanwhile the Front is also looking forward to getting a good share in the compensatory seats; the results of which were expected to be announced yesterday but the announcement was delayed by the election commission for fear that they could aggravate the crisis if the results didnât appeal to either party. Nadeem al-Jabiri, head of the Virtue Party is trying to approximate the points of view of the major parties involved and heâs trying to convince Allawiâs list to join the government and announced that heâll be running for PM as a solution in the middle between the two extremities of the conflict. Noori al-Rawi, minister of culture and another looser in the elections is also trying to moderate negotiations between the UIA and Maram and in this regard he had separate meetings with Abd Mutlaq al-Juboori (vice president), tariq al-Hashimi and Hussein al-Shahristani to hear from each of them and approximate their points of view. It also seems that meetings fever has spread to Amman/Jordan; these days there are talk going on there between members of the Accord Front, Iraqi list of Allawi, the Kurdish alliance and the UIA, a report from al-Mada paper said that American diplomacy will be represented in those meetings. The same reports said that itâs been suggested that top government posts should be distributed so that Talabani keeps the presidency, SCIRIâs Abdulmahdi gets the PM post while Tariq al-Hashimi of the Islamic Party gets the chairmanship of the parliament and Allawi gets to manage the security file. This goes along well with what Mrs.Intisar Allawi from the Iraqi list said; she revealed that they are looking forward to be in charge of the security file in addition to getting a deputy PM or vice president post and one of the ministries of oil, monetary or trade. Observers think that the foreign ministry will remain in Kurdish hands but Barham Salih is most likely to replace Hoshyar Zibari. It is believed that who-gets-the-interior-and-defense-ministries is a key point in solving the dispute and the suggestion present now is that the men who should handle these tow ministries must be non-partisan or from a party that has no militias. Al-Yosha from the UIA pointed out another contested file; that is the Iraqi media network. The Accord Front want to assume control over the media network with its two main branches (al-Sabah paper and al-Iraqia TV) but the UIA are not ready to surrender the network to anyone. Of course calm and reasonable negotiations are not all we hear; there are also tense statements coming occasionally from here and there; Baha al-Aaraji-a Sadrist-said they "want the government to be formed according to election results and not by accordance and appeasement" adding that "if the Iraqi list is to be part of the government, their share must reflect the number of seats they the won in the election and if they make any exaggerated demands, we will refuse including them in the formationâŠ" On the other hand, Ayham al-Samaraâi-former electricity minister and member of Maram-said that number of political bodies lining under Maram has reached 50 parties and lists and pointed out that all the 50 âhave agreed on a plan to keep the pressure in the form of peaceful opposition but if no reasonable solution is reached, civil disobedience will be our next step...â. In general, it looks like most parties want to assume peaceful ways in pursuing what they want but not everyone; the five carbombs that exploded in Baghdad today suggest that there's someone out there who intends to escalate the crisis. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #26 I humbly hope he learns to keep his word. It's what adults do. |
| Posted by: Ebbavins Unagum8110 2005-12-26 20:58 |
| #25 Hope you have a nice New Year, Aris. |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-12-26 16:06 |
| #24 I understand that the existence of long-term memories is always inconvenient to the hypocrites, Robert. As for nursing my grudges, no need to hire anyone else when you and Frank are so adequate to the task. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 15:50 |
| #23 Frank, I said you were laughing along over someone else (namely Robert) calling me a "cunt". Have a nice whatever, you too. Did you hire a nanny to nurse your grudge? |
| Posted by: Robert Crawford 2005-12-26 15:25 |
| #22 Perhaps you can avoid the remainder of your stint. It'll be years before they make it all-pro, assuming it ever happens. It wouldn't affect me who am already serving. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:42 |
| #21 I understand the Hellenic Army is going all pro. Perhaps you can avoid the remainder of your stint. |
| Posted by: Leon Clavin 2005-12-26 14:33 |
| #20 Frank, I said you were laughing along over someone else (namely Robert) calling me a "cunt". Have a nice whatever, you too. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:32 |
| #19 IIRC I never called you a c*&t. I had better slurs. Have a happy whatever |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-12-26 14:30 |
| #18 No, Leon, the four-and-a-half months that remains of my army service is all the putting-off-real-life I intend to do anymore, and only because I can't help it. I wouldn't go for a Ph. D. if you paid me. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:29 |
| #17 I still worry that you're extra unhappy today. Is a Ph.D an option? |
| Posted by: Leon Clavin 2005-12-26 14:24 |
| #16 I already postponed reality for three years, spending it acquiring a Master's diploma, Leon, but thanks anyway. And I'm not a troll. When I argue in favour or against something, I argue because of the issue's importance, not to disrupt for disruption's sake, unlike other people here who've already pretty much admitted to it. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:16 |
| #15 Aris is unhappy for some reason. I worry. He's our best troll by far. Grad school is still an option, put off reality for another 3 years and hope things change. |
| Posted by: Leon Clavin 2005-12-26 14:11 |
| #14 The worst insults have the pretense of civility behind them, Frank. But your shallow and ultimately fake and hypocritical respectability (remember back when you were laughing along over calling me a "cunt" or a "goatfucker"?) is to object to my usage of the word "fucking", but to not object to an insinuation that it's some sort of leftover spite from the French referendum that has supposedly turned me against democracy. Shallow and hypocritical: typical Frank. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:08 |
| #13 Joe 2008 |
| Posted by: XXXMAS PAST 2005-12-26 14:07 |
| #12 Joe Katsaris with a potty mouth...nice |
| Posted by: Frank G 2005-12-26 13:55 |
| #11 As I imagined, you won't support your claims of the elections being legitimate, even though I supported my own claims with a link providing detailing information. You'll merely insult instead. Typically cowardlike of you. Have a nice day! |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 13:52 |
| #10 Take your medicine, Aris. Good day. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2005-12-26 13:49 |
| #9 Giving up on elections since France trashed your "constitution," Aris? Nice fucking insult there, Darrell. Reminds me to not even attempt civility in what is to follow. Ofcourse from my point of view it's you who've given up on elections and democracy, when you are prepared to declare *every* pretend-election legimitate, even if there's a few hundred thousand voters added illigimately, even if there are reports of people voting 10 times apiece in Sadr City. I'm sure there was some fraud, but that doesn't make the whole election fraudulent anymore than Chicago machine politics makes U.S. federal elections fraudulent. How *nice* of you to admit to "I'm sure there was some fraud." How *safe* an analogy you are making. Your "I'm sures" have nothing of knowledge backing them up. But I'm part of the reality-based community and when I declare these elections fraudulent I'm basing it on things like this. Will you try to mention whereever you are basing the idea that "you are sure some fraud took place" but that it wasn't significant? Or will you try to insinuate yet again that I'm being undemocratic, when I've repeatedly shown myself the most interested in democracy than you all? Or is the conservative definition of democracy so fluid that you can extend it to cover even these sham elections? |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 13:45 |
| #8 Giving up on elections since France trashed your "constitution," Aris? I'm sure there was some fraud, but that doesn't make the whole election fraudulent anymore than Chicago machine politics makes U.S. federal elections fraudulent. Horse trading is a good thing -- a necessary thing. It's compromise. It's how good government works. As for these individuals making their announcements, we have plenty of that going on in Washington. Kennedy and Kerry and Pelosi don't get to the White House by making their announcements. Don't sweat it. |
| Posted by: Darrell 2005-12-26 13:24 |
| #7 Moose, Thanks. That definitely goes in the learn something new every day category. But procedure is not law. Nonethe less, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for the introduction of the assumptions and principals behind adversary procedure in criminal proceedings finds its way into the law itself. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2005-12-26 13:16 |
| #6 Unhappy to see the extent of Iraq's dominant political spectrum reach from Ahmadinejad all the way to Rafsajani, with the occasional ineffective Khatami thrown in for show. The election results were a clear fraud designed to bring all of Iran's agents in charge. America should denounce them and insist they be repeated, with the threat of its troops' immediate departure. The Iranian stooges are still dependent on the US military forces to save them from a Sunni/secular revolution. |
| Posted by: Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 13:10 |
| #5 Nimble Spemble: the best example is Italy, though it is an odd case. It had used Civil Law for an extended period, until a peculiar situation happened: Perry Mason re-runs on television. The Italian judicial system was brought to a halt because the average Italian knew more about Common Law criminal proceedings than Civil Law. Eventually it was decided that they should adopt Common Law for this reason. It was standing room only in the largest courtroom at Milan's Palace of Justice. About five minutes after the trial began, a defense lawyer rose and said, 'Mi oppongo, Signor Presidente' -- 'Your honor, I object.' At those words, everyone in the court, including the judge, broke into a thunderous round of applause. It might be a moment no one in that courtroom will forget. It was also the first time that interruption, considered routine in American procedures, had been heard in an Italian court. The trial last month in Milan was make-believe of the best kind: the rehearsal for a legal revolution to take place on, and forever after, Oct. 24. On that date Italy's antiquated criminal code will be changed and court procedures replaced by processes modeled on Anglo-American law. Everyone in the courtroom that morning was either a judge or a lawyer, assigned as a member of the audience or reciting a role cast from a script based on a real trial (involving a stolen fur coat). The change is already being hailed as an American import. Even though U.S. legal procedures are the legitimate offspring of English law, Italy's new procedures are being referred to as 'bringing in Perry Mason' -- the lawyer invented by the late novelist Erle Stanley Gardner. "Italian Law Is Moving Into 'Perry Mason' Era," Los Angeles Times, 5/28/89. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2005-12-26 13:01 |
| #4 .com : Iraq: My Ayatollah Can Beat Up Your Ayatollah ...but then such a battle has to be promoted properly... |
| Posted by: BigEd 2005-12-26 12:19 |
| #3 Moose, do you know of an instance where civil law has been successfully replaced by common law? Quebec? This is a decision that the people themselves should make, not the victor unless it wants to sign up for a 4 generation colonization, minimum, with lot's of resistance, i.e. bloodshed, in my opinion. Civil law leads to long periods of ineffective corrupt governance with brief interruptions of men on white horses, as opposed to the common law alternative of long periods of ineffective corrupt governance with brief interruptions of crises so severe effective leaders have a chance to emerge. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2005-12-26 12:03 |
| #2 Remember that the organization of the US, in its constitution, was designed to prevent laws from being passed. What will be critical in Iraq will in fact be based on how long and how much the government can stay out of the way, allowing private enterprise to rebuild their economy before the bureaucrats and apparatchiks can slam on the brakes. Sad to say, the US missed a rare opportunity to get rid of the Iraqi code Napoleon legal system inherited from the French, and replace it with our far superior Common Law system. This means that someday, Iraq will have to face up to the same chronic problems of Europe: the stifling of initiative and a bloated elistist bureaucracy. However, in the meantime, hopefully their government will impress upon all their legitimacy and efficiency in maintaining their national defense and their internal security. If these two substantial tasks are met, then their future as a nation is all but assured. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2005-12-26 11:46 |
| #1 Sigh. You need a program to follow all of this, especially the more subtle aspects. Haggling, lol, Arab bread 'n butter. The notion of putting Jaafari back in as PM should be a non-starter, since he was amazingly ineffective, but perhaps this is much like the reconstruction days in the South: You don't want effective politicians... The "suggestion" of holding elections again in 6 months, heh, anybody see a similarity to the Arab penchant for endless conferences and meetings, so nothing ever actually gets done, nothing is ever actually finished? Reminds me of some companies I've contracted for... I suggested, just once of course, lol, that one particular oil company should change their company slogan to "Zero Deliverables" - a play upon the "Zero Defects" signs I had seen at all of the military installations as a kid. It was not taken in the spirit in which I had offered it, lol. How about a national slogan contest... Iraq: My Ayatollah Can Beat Up Your Ayatollah |
| Posted by: .com 2005-12-26 10:57 |