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| About 'Hispanics' |
| 2006-03-02 |
| Low-skilled illegal immigrants are slowing the ascension of Latinos, as a group, into the U.S. middle class, the nation's most prestigious research group warned Wednesday... (original opinion) The article alludes to several characteristics about "Hispanic" immigration that are usually missing from most of the debate. To start with, the very word "Hispanic" is a grotesque, politically correct term popularized by the US government first in the 1980 census. It really defines nothing, and is both irritating to the people thus labeled and confuses the issues surrounding legal and illegal immigration from a huge region of the planet. Perhaps one of the most interesting definition of "Hispanics" is "people who do not interbreed with each other if they are from different countries, religions, ethnic groups, social or economic classes, education, or speak different languages." They are oddly unique in this way, that is, in not wanting to have anything to do with each other. At least until they cross the US border, and at least as far as the US government is concerned. And no, they don't intermarry with each other up here, either, though they will intermarry under some circumstances with anybody else. A minority of the "Hispanics" who are Mexican, which is to say mostly Indian, are a majority in the US only because their country of origin happens to be right next door. Not surprisingly, the next largest groups tend to be the Guatemalans, from "the next country down", and the Puerto Ricans, who technically at least are from the United States already. The next largest group would probably be the Cubans, from the theoretical 51st State, sooner or later, again to be part of the United States also. Maybe sometime, weather permitting. Though not the rest of the Caribbean. Especially Aruba. I hope this clears things up a tad. No? Well, among the other countries labeled as "Hispanic", we have the mostly African negroes from Belize and the entirely white looking people, a lot of them at least, from South America, that speak both mostly Spanish, of some dialect or other, or Portuguese. Or some Indian language or frequently English. Though it seems counterintuitive, it should be pointed out that neither the Spanish, from "Hispania", nor the Portuguese, also from "sort-of-Hispania", are not "Hispanic", and I probably shouldn't dream on speculating about the Catalans or the Basques, who get really snippy if you refer to them as "Spanish". So, anyway, back to the Mexicans, who are most of our legal and illegal aliens these days. Pretty much like the other immigrants who came to the US uninvited, they integrate in about three generations. However, because we have learned that it's probably better that they integrate faster than do like Europe does with its immigrants, this integration is happening a lot faster than the norm. Which brings up the statement from the original quoted text: Low-skilled illegal immigrants are slowing the ascension of Latinos, as a group, into the U.S. middle class, the nation's most prestigious research group warned Wednesday... Since having a larger, younger, work-oriented middle class is a good thing, especially since we "non-Hispanics and others" are getting on in years and need somebody to pay for our retirements, and since "Latinos" (a subset of "Hispanics") do seem to integrate quickly and ascend to the middle class quickly, we should probably conclude two things: 1) Having a goodly degree of Mexican immigrants is a good thing, as long as it is not done to excess, and, 2) To help the Mexican immigrants who are already in our country ascend to the middle class as soon as possible is also a good thing. Which basically means that we need to erect a wall mostly as a governor to limit the unrestricted flow of Mexicans into the United States; while, ironically, encouraging far more of them to legally immigrate to the US. It also means that we should reconsider the label "Hispanic", and perhaps try to come up with some other labels when deciding what people we already have enough of for the time being, and what people we could add to the ol' melting pot without destabilizing the cosmic order. For example, since he wouldn't dream of marrying a different "Hispanic", we might allow a female Peruvian Taoist who *also* speaks Japanese, has a masters degree in Botany, with an annual salary of $78,000; so at least that Peruvian "Hispanic" will have somebody to get married to. Otherwise he might have to marry someone who only has a bachelor's degree. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #8 oh well, I did like my kids doing community service and giving back to society. But these programs are only as good as the people that run them. Regarding learning the english language; in Denver, we had I think it was 7 libraries changed to spanish language to accomodate the neighborhoods they were located in. Instead of keeping them english and having folks learn english, they have no reason to learn english now that everything is offered in spanish. It is an ugly problem, with no good or easy solutions. |
| Posted by: Jan 2006-03-02 20:34 |
| #7 Jan: There is a huge demand for adult English as a second language and literacy classes, far more than can be handled through typical means. Something I've proposed in past was to use existing resources, in this case public libraries, as "open to close" English language and literacy centers. That is, most public libraries have all the ingredients: meeting rooms, English language experts, written reading material, multilingual instructional material, graphic training aids and teaching resources. Library volunteers and librarians could have classes going on continually during business hours with all levels of instruction. Not only do they learn English, but they have at their fingertips any number of practical books to actually *do* something with their skills, so they are improving other areas of their lives at the same time. Typically, after work, adults go to the library every night it is open and start reading something new, after they have learned enough English to start. HOWEVER, that being said, as to your second point, about community service, I have to strongly disagree. Community service is HELL. It always begins with good intentions, but then the most despicable, swinish, nasty and useless people gravitate to the controls of the system, tormenting everybody who goes through it. It could best be compared to a court mandated drug diversion program that you have to attend for six months because someone you carpooled with had a marijuana cigarette on him (guilt by association). A drug diversion program ran by a control freak liberal who insists that you kiss his behind or he will keep you in the program forever. You must admit to drug use, even though you didn't, and you must show improvement, even if there are no drugs in your blood. If you don't do either, the diversion class can run for years. And best of all, you have to pay him for the privilege to abuse you. Oh, it makes me shudder because I know the people locally who would run such a service program, and I would find it damn hard to get through such a program without gutting one or more of them with a grapefruit knife. To recap, it always sounds good, but it never, never, never, ever, works. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2006-03-02 20:13 |
| #6 Anonymoose, my mother in law when she came here from Germany (she escaped since she was jewish, unlike other family members that didn't make it out) needed a sponsor, and had to have money to start out with to get here. She worked from the age of 14 in the garment district in New York. Likewise my grandparents needed sponsors. I feel a big difference to compare with the flood of illegals coming over the border every day. You do bring up some good points, that I don't see any easy answers to regarding the illegals that are here already etc.. But we really need to address this problem and not just let it continue to get worse every day. I would like to see an english only law get established, and really teach english in the schools. This is maybe a bit off topic here, but would like to see all of our high school graduates commit 2 years of service to our country not all need to be in a military capacity, but I feel our youngsters need to do community service. My kids did in scouts throughout the years, and I think they are better because of it. |
| Posted by: Jan 2006-03-02 19:09 |
| #5 Jan: your arguments are true for illegal immigrants, but only initially for legal immigrants. The Irish, Italians, even Germans entering the US were in the first generation, ghettoized in the way Europe does today. Second generation they became troublesome because they were neither integrated nor old world. Only in the third generation did they really become permanently Americans. Because of the efforts of the US, Mexicans are going through these three generations all at once. You stop being Mexican in a hurry and are on the fast track to being an American--a good American. And, on the plus side, if we *do* close the border, all of a sudden those who are already over here become major assets--they rapidly move into the middle class--the most productive, educated and profitable part of our demographics. It's just not feasible to throw 2-10 million people, many of whom are already Americanized, back across the border to a country they have either left behind or never knew. And ghettoization these days is tiny, compared to the vast numbers that fully integrate. Even in Phoenix metro, you could probably count on two hands the streets that have dominant Spanish-sign businesses; out of a metro area of 260 square miles, with thousands of streets. Within the past week, it was suggested that the moribund radical "Hispanic" organization MeCha be reactivated. However, to show how times have changed, the middle-class Mexicans who proposed this immediately stated: "...but without the protests, the radicalism and leftist politics, we want someplace where we can network..." In other words, they want a business club, a Mexican-American version of Rotary Club. I just cannot get concerned about the possibility that Mexican Rotarians will somehow hurt our economy. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2006-03-02 16:56 |
| #4 "Latinos also identify themselves differently" The "open borders" crowd like to paint the false impression that all Latinos share their viewpoint. Contrary to that myth history shows that many legal Latino immigrants oppose their illegal counterparts. Mexican hero and former president of the United Farm Workers Union César Chávez always maintained that illegal immigrants drove down wages. He even called INS to report the presence of illegal immigrants in the fields and demand that the agency deport them. UFW officials were even known to picket INS offices to demand a crackdown on illegal immigrants. Shhhh...don't tell the Unions or the "Immigrant Rights" groups. They might call you a racist bigot. |
| Posted by: DepotGuy 2006-03-02 15:33 |
| #3 #2: Personally I don't understand why Europe isn't doing there best to work out migrant worker programs with Latin America. The Shipping costs are prohibitive. (Pun intended) |
| Posted by: Redneck Jim 2006-03-02 14:04 |
| #2 Personally I don't understand why Europe isn't doing there best to work out migrant worker programs with Latin America. The Latin Americans need the cash, Europe needs cheap labor. Latin Americans already speak a Europan language and are flush with Judeo-Christian beliefs which Europe could use some firming up on. The deal would also increase trade between the continents. Yeah it would cost more to get them there but in the long run, compared to Islamic ghettos and riots, it would seem to be a far cheaper solution. Come on home boys. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2006-03-02 14:00 |
| #1 argh where to start here. Since having a larger, younger, work-oriented middle class is a good thing, especially since we "non-Hispanics and others" are getting on in years and need somebody to pay for our retirements DON"T SPEAK FOR ME! If we as a people aren't able to look further into the future to see how this will have a negative impact on our children and their children, we are very much in trouble here. Our own children need to know what hard work is and appreciate what it means. To have our children grow up expecting to have all the "labor" related jobs done by illegals instead of doing the work themselves puts more of a wedge between us as people. The educational level of our communities are lowering significantly and fast. I don't see us coming up with the next brilliant idea with most not even graduating from high school. When we're gone and these young uneducated Mexicans are at our age, and no longer able to work who will support them? With our exporting all of our high end jobs to India and other countries OMG. Also they are costing our country so much more in medical expenses and the like compared to the few taking advantage of cheap labor. They are scabs, lowering the wage and lowering the benefits offered by many private companies. Not having insurance means they get emergency medicaid and that comes out of my pocket for the business owner to get a "break". Also what melting pot? Illegals have been bringing with them their own culture, most don't seem to be interested in our culture at all here. They are interested in all of the free care, schools, and get it. There are many neighborhood businesses here in Colorado that don't speak english for you to communicate. The expense of interpreters is outrageous. If imigrants want to come here because they like our credo, and want to be like us yes by all means, but to not accept any of what we're about and demand to have their culture and rights upheld is an outrage. Especially when they are here illegally. Don't misunderstand me with this comment, as I do feel we need to respect all cultures, but our own should be the dominating one followed here. We need to not get hung up on the labels, we need to just see clearly and act on the fact that illegals are breaking the law and deal with it. We don't need more monies spent on another agency coming up with another term for hispanic. They have already changed the term citizen to resident to allow the illegals to access our libraries and other services here in Colorado. |
| Posted by: Jan 2006-03-02 13:49 |