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| Iraq |
| In Cold Blood |
| 2006-06-06 |
| June 6, 2006: Accusations that American troops murdered civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are in the news again. Some of it is the usual propaganda that the enemy has learned is worth tossing out there from time to time. Some of it sticks with someone, somewhere. Even Europeans media sometimes fall for doctored or mislabeled photos of dead civilians, and publish them as "American atrocities". The implication is that American troops are out of control, poorly trained and led. Much of this is fed by those opposed to the removal of Saddam, via a war that did not have to approval of the UN. This is all more about scoring political points than anything else. What is unusual about the current accusations is that such events are rare. While there are a lot of civilians killed by combat actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, most are clearly just people caught in the cross fire. The enemy knowingly takes cover among civilians, to take advantage of American "Rules of Engagement" (ROE). But at the same time, the American ROE these days puts the safely of American troops above all else. Thus if the enemy hides among civilians and opens fire, U.S. troops will return fire, and the civilians either get out of the way, or get hit. Brutal, but the alternative is dead Americans. The enemy makes the most of the civilians they have caused, through their actions, to get killed. The current atrocity accusations are about "cold blood" killings. The investigation will have to decide when the "heat of battle" turns into "cold blood." That's a tough decision to make, and the large number of imbedded journalists have written stories about it. These are not the kind of pieces editors love, as they are not as headline grabbing as atrocity stories. There are other kinds of stories editors have avoided. Take, for example, what commonly occurred during World War II. When the Germans, for example, were found to have killed Allied prisoners, there was a period of weeks or months after that where Allied troops were taking far fewer German prisoners. After D-Day in 1944, this happened first on the Normandy beachhead, when some German SS troops killed some Canadian prisoners. Soon, German troops realized it was not a good idea to get captured by the Canadians, as German prisoners did not survive their captivity very long. This sort of thing happened again at the end of 1944, during the Battle of the Bulge, when SS troops killed a lot of American prisoners. Retribution was quietly applied. Personal note: My godfather was one of those captured by the Germans at the Battle of the Bulge. He never talked about it, but hated everything German till the day he died. It wasn't till years later I figured out he must have been one of the few who escaped the massacre. |
| Posted by:Steve |
| #13 Ever wonder why we didn't have many Japanese soldiers in our POW camps? Maybe it's because we didn't take many Japanes prisoners. Shoe on the other foot-- Ever wonder why you almost never see a US grunt taken prisoner in Iraq? Maybe it's because our guys are taught to NEVER be taken alive. Actually, there's no 'maybe' about it. They are taught that. |
| Posted by: Parabellum 2006-06-06 19:39 |
| #12 I know 'Nam vets who talk of the same thing wrt vc prisoners. War sucks, but it's not the worst of things. The worse thing in the world imho is somebody who has nothing in which they would fight for. |
| Posted by: Broadhead6 2006-06-06 15:44 |
| #11 Common stuff. In Italy, Dad gave some SS prisoners to two soldiers to take behind the lines to a collection point. They returned within 10 mins. Dad looked at them funny, asked if they turned them over, and then took all future prisoners back himself. Of course that meant he lost out on all the good loot like Lugars. Liberating the German's cognac supplies in Trieste kind of made up for all those negative vibes. |
| Posted by: 3dc 2006-06-06 15:26 |
| #10 You are referring to Dachau, I think. There's more information linked in comment #1. |
| Posted by: Angie Schultz 2006-06-06 14:58 |
| #9 The story I've heard fourth hand is of a German tank crew that miraculously survived the Eastern Front, escaped across Germany to surrender to the western Allies, and promptly had the crap beaten out of them by some Canadians because their tanker uniforms resembled SS uniforms. |
| Posted by: Matt 2006-06-06 14:10 |
| #8 Thank you, Mike. |
| Posted by: JFM 2006-06-06 12:26 |
| #7 JFM: You are referring to Dachau, I think. There's a whole web page on the incident here. |
| Posted by: Mike 2006-06-06 12:18 |
| #6 My German brother-in-law deserted the Nazis, stole a bicycle and rode across Poland to escape the murderous Russians, only to surrender to the Americans. He is now an American citizen, married to a former WWII bomber pilot's daughter, and very thankful the Americans fed him better than he had growing up. Even with his Nazi Aryan indoctrination, he knew it was his only way to escape sure torture and death. |
| Posted by: Danielle 2006-06-06 11:21 |
| #5 There was the story of a Waffen SS (ie combattants) unit who, at ythe end of thwar, perhaps after the cease fire, surrendered in the vicinity of a concentration camp. But, the allied soldiers, who just seen the camp, shot them believing they were Totenkopf Verband SS (camp guards). Now Waffen SS perpetrated many atrocities and there were frequent personal movemnts between the Waffen SS and the Totenkop Verband. |
| Posted by: JFM 2006-06-06 11:14 |
| #4 My Father has told me stories about my Grandfather in WWII. He was in Belgium fighting the Germans, seems the Belgians were trying to play both sides of the game. The Canadian Air Force "accidentally" bombed a few Belgian towns to let them know which side they should be playing for. |
| Posted by: bigjim-ky 2006-06-06 11:07 |
| #3 Two stories I heard while growing up: 1. My buddy Tom's father was in the 101st at Bastogne. In the course of the battle, my Tom's father's unit captured some SS from the same SS unit that was responsible for Malmedy. A couple or three guys were detailed to guard the prisoners, and Tom's father heard them being ordered to "take these prisoners to the collection point and be back in five minutes." The collection point was several miles to the rear, and there was no motor transport available. You do the math. 2. My Dad's division overran part of the Belsen concentration camp in April of 1945. Dad does not talk about this experience much, but he did once tell me that while the camp guards surrendered, his unit didn't take them prisoner. |
| Posted by: Mike 2006-06-06 10:45 |
| #2 Open question to the MSM; Islamic radicals kill about 200 Muslims a day. Last year the number was 100. What difference does it matter if a few Americans retaliate in a world falling into chaos ? What difference can it matter to the countless victims of Islamic brutality ? And, how long do you think you can sweep the truth under the rug ? There is a world war going on; Free men against Islamic radicals and ultimately, civilization against Islam. When will the MSM wake up ? |
| Posted by: wxjames 2006-06-06 10:34 |
| #1 This sort of thing happened again at the end of 1944, during the Battle of the Bulge, when SS troops killed a lot of American prisoners. Retribution was quietly applied. Like here. |
| Posted by: Snerese Angeang9015 2006-06-06 10:27 |