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Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Israeli jets fire over German navy ship off Lebanon
2006-10-25
In the interest of keeping the discussion of this in one place as the news emerges, I'm adding anonymous5089's article here as well and linking to it. Original Debka article listed below with link.


Israeli jets fire over German navy ship off Lebanon
BERLIN, Oct 25 (Rooters) - Two Israeli warplanes have fired over a German naval vessel patrolling off the Lebanese coast, the Defence Ministry in Berlin said on Wednesday. The daily Der Tagesspiegel quoted a German junior defence minister as telling a parliamentary committee that two Israeli F-16 fighters had flown low over the ship, firing twice.

The jets also activated infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying, in an advance release from Thursday's edition.

The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it.

"I can confirm that there was an incident," a ministry spokesman said on Wednesday. He declined to give further details as an investigation was under way.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said she was checking the report.

Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off Lebanon 10 days ago, and has sent eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.

The naval force is charged with preventing weapons smuggling and helping maintain a ceasefire between Israel and the Lebanese Islamic militant group Hezbollah


DEBKA report:
German defense ministry reports two Israeli F-16 warplanes flew low over a German navy vessel off Lebanon and fired two shots.

The defense ministry in Berlin offered no further details on the incident or when it happened. The German daily Der Tagesspiegel earlier Wednesday, Oct. 25, quoted a junior defense minister as making this report to a parliamentary committee. The Israeli jets also released infra-red countermeasures to ward off any rocket attack, the paper quoted him as saying. The minister did not say when the incident happened or what had caused it, the paper said.

The IDF spokesperson said the incident is being investigated. Germany assumed command of a United Nations naval force off the coast of Lebanon 10 days ago and has sent a force of eight ships and 1,000 service personnel to join the international peace operation in the region.
Posted by:Anonymoose

#30  It needs saying.

NoBeards go fuck yourself once you get your head out of you own ass.

Your a tool without a clue.
Posted by: Sock Puppet of Doom   2006-10-25 23:56  

#29  Nobeards, in case you didn't know, RAM is the antimissile system the USN developed when it was discovered that Phalanx couldn't stop the latest generation of let's-pretend-they're-not-soviet-anymore anti-ship missiles. It was codeveloped with the German Navy.

If German defenses against such are no good... it kinda implies that US defenses are no good either.
Posted by: Abdominal Snowman   2006-10-25 23:54  

#28  Lots of people have been in the Navy 'at the point'. Getting up at 0430 to serve breakfast is tough. And you're looking at death in the face should you run out of Snickers in your store.

Never worked in the mess hall! Left the Navy after 10 as an AOC. That
would be Aviation Ordinanceman CPO. I've handled everything in the inventory, including nukes, at the squadron level and in the weapons locker.

Messmen do not get up at 04:30 to serve breakfast, the overnight crew is already up after having served midrats (midnight rations). Pogue bait never appealed to me. I knew several folks in the service that adopted the moniker "Pappy" they were without exception opinionated dipshits, legends in their own lunch time. No reason to think you're any different.

But did you ever work with the Kriegsmarine? Ever hear of the RAM system? Ever went through drills and memorised procedures? Ever had to be the guy making the call when an unidentified aircraft or ship was CBDR?

Nope, nope, nope and nope! Doesn't matter either. If the Israelis decide that the ships need sinking, they'll be sunk. I never said they wouldn't take any losses.

The Israelis have never faced a modern Western combat-ship. The Liberty doesn't count. Obviously the Germans are doing something right, since Israel got its subs from them.

No doubt, the Germans are fine engineers, and they probably make good Submarines based on what I have read and heard from people that know. But the Germans haven't faced a modern Air Force armed with modern anti-ship missles either.

My point is, you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Just like the rest of your posts.

You're a sanctimonious ass that seems to enjoys the smell of his own exhaust. Keep sniffing it pogue-boy.

Posted by: NoBeards   2006-10-25 23:45  

#27  So, snappy Pappy, what's your point?

Lots of people have been in the Navy 'at the point'. Getting up at 0430 to serve breakfast is tough. And you're looking at death in the face should you run out of Snickers in your store.

But did you ever work with the Kriegsmarine? Ever hear of the RAM system? Ever went through drills and memorised procedures? Ever had to be the guy making the call when an unidentified aircraft or ship was CBDR?

The Israelis have never faced a modern Western combat-ship. The Liberty doesn't count. Obviously the Germans are doing something right, since Israel got its subs from them.

My point is, you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Just like the rest of your posts.
Posted by: Pappy   2006-10-25 23:06  

#26  But the frequencies and signatures are available within NATO.

Last I checked, Israel isn't a member of NATO. One quick overflight gave them lots of useful realtime information needed to program source guided missiles. In addition, they sent a loud and clear message to the UNFIL wonks.

Wittingly or not, Germany providing the least sort of fig leaf protective cover for genocidal Hezbollah isn't just ironic, it's disgusting.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-25 22:17  

#25  Obviously your knowledge of naval warfare is right up there with your knowledge of foreign affairs.

Your point would be? I spent quite a few years in the Navy at the sharp end of the spear. I'm not sure just what anti-ship ordinance the Israelis have, but whatever it is, against the thin skinned vessels the Germans have deployed in the region I am sure it's enough. And "Blub, blub, blub" is the sound those vessels would make as they headed for the deep.

So, snappy Pappy, what's your point?

Posted by: NoBeards   2006-10-25 21:16  

#24  In preparation for any anticipated UNFIL festivities, the Israelis may have done a close overflight that purposefully forced the German boats to light up their sensor suites so that they could be profiled for later jamming.

Possible. But the frequencies and signatures are available within NATO. It's be easier and less trouble to simply 'obtain' them, if they haven't been obtained already.

I am guessing the Germans lit up the F-16s and the pilots just wanted to demonstrate to the Germans how easily they could be sent to the bottom of the Med.

Could go either way, CS. If I were the TAO and the F-16s did what they did, I'd light them up as well. Weapons tight, but I'd light them up.

I'd charge the Kreigsmarine for the training.

I highly doubt the Kriegsmarine sat around drinking coffee before they deployed.

Anti-ship missle: Excocet/Harpoon, or similar.

Blub, blub, blub.

Obviously your knowledge of naval warfare is right up there with your knowledge of foreign affairs.

Posted by: Pappy   2006-10-25 21:00  

#23  So how would Israel take out such a fleet, short of using nukes?

Anti-ship missle: Excocet/Harpoon, or similar.

Blub, blub, blub.

Posted by: NoBeards   2006-10-25 19:32  

#22  "Das boot" all over again

Just in time for that new film about Bill Gates:

Wait for it ...



"DOS Boot"

[rimshot]
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-25 18:29  

#21  "Das boot" all over again...All these different nationalities in and around Lebanon an accident waiting to happen.....
Posted by: Ebbavigum Tholumble2254   2006-10-25 17:10  

#20  Put a few hundred rounds into the bridge of one of them then call for a UN investigation into the "root causes" of the violence. And blame the dead Germans for illegally occupying historic Israeli waters.

And torch the entire French flotilla at the same time. Just don't bother talking about it or responding to any questions. "Eh? The French had ships?"
Posted by: Laurence of the Rats   2006-10-25 17:06  

#19  I'd charge the Kreigsmarine for the training.
Posted by: Shipman   2006-10-25 17:00  

#18  So the UN has Israel surrounded? Just who are they there to defend??? Jew hating Muslims surrounding them by land and Germans, there to provide peace, to the sea. Historically speaking they are not surrounded by friends. If I was Israeli I would be establishing dominance there as well. I think they are just letting the Germans know who not to mess with.
Posted by: 49 Pan   2006-10-25 16:25  

#17  And discovered it's easy to swagger but a little less comfortable to be in the line of fire yourself. ??
Posted by: lotp   2006-10-25 16:06  

#16  I am guessing the Germans lit up the F-16s and the pilots just wanted to demonstrate to the Germans how easily they could be sent to the bottom of the Med.
Posted by: Cyber Sarge   2006-10-25 15:41  

#15  Posted by: lotp 2006-10-25 15:00

That's good to hear.
Posted by: Thoth   2006-10-25 15:28  

#14  Peretz strongly denies the incident happened.
Posted by: lotp   2006-10-25 15:00  

#13  Could they have dropped a couple flares after the Germans lit them up with a targeting radar?

Actually, Jonathan may be closest to the mark. In preparation for any anticipated UNFIL festivities, the Israelis may have done a close overflight that purposefully forced the German boats to light up their sensor suites so that they could be profiled for later jamming.

This make more sense than anything else, so far.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-25 14:56  

#12  Could be a wake up call to the Krauts reminding them of their promised duty to prevent muzzie weapon smuggling opertions pursuant to their UN mandate.

Could be an IAF military hat tip to the Krauts thanking them for they're historical part in helping to establish the State of Israel some 60 years ago.

Could be a light hearted post-Ramadan Israeli inside joke to the Krauts, as in: Okay Germany, you wanna f**k with us NOW?

Could be an Al-Reuters bald face pro-muzzie, anti-Israeli lie.

Could be all or any combination of the above.

If the reports are true I just smile.
Posted by: Mark Z   2006-10-25 14:37  

#11  So how would Israel take out such a fleet, short of using nukes?

European ships?

Quite easily, I'd guess. We're not talking first-line militaries with funds for training and ammunition. Oh, sure, they have long military traditions, but their hearts aren't in it anymore.

Granted, their Muslim and tranzi masters would love to get some Jew-killin' on, but the odds that they'd be able to stop the Israelis from sinking them? Slim to none.
Posted by: Rob Crawford   2006-10-25 14:28  

#10  Maybe they were Polish jets.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,443547,00.html
Posted by: Thoth   2006-10-25 14:19  

#9  Could they have dropped a couple flares after the Germans lit them up with a targeting radar?
Posted by: Jonathan   2006-10-25 14:17  

#8  On a more interesting note, the Israeli military will have to make a contingency assumption that this fleet of ships could turn hostile, say if Israel launched an attack against Syria or Iran. Or even into Lebanon, again.

In such a circumstance, these ships would severely menace Israel proper, unless much of the fleet was destroyed or chased away.

So how would Israel take out such a fleet, short of using nukes?
Posted by: Anonymoose   2006-10-25 14:12  

#7  Yumpy Yermans.

/Swedish Chef
Posted by: .com   2006-10-25 13:59  

#6  Reuters has picked it up so far

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061025/wl_nm/germany_israel_incident_dc_2
Posted by: Thoth   2006-10-25 13:50  

#5  ...You can't fire just two rounds from the M61 cannon on an F-16 - you get a whole lot more than that. What I'm worried about here is another USS Liberty...

Mike
Posted by: Mike Kozlowski   2006-10-25 13:49  

#4  Maybe it was just backfires afterburners on.
Posted by: Zenster   2006-10-25 13:47  

#3  Anyone want to bet that the German air defense radar was locked on the IAF F-16s before the fly-over? Not sure how you "fire two shots" from an F-16. If you are carrying a gun pod, the system isn't set up to fire single shots. You don't waste missiles that cost $100K+ as warning shots. My guess is that the "shots" that were fired were the twin sonic booms as the F-16s made a supersonic flyby.
Posted by: RWV   2006-10-25 13:44  

#2  Debka - I invoke the 24-hour rule. Overfly - with attitude? Yeah, wTF not, lol. Shots? Uhhh, I don't theeeenk so.
Posted by: .com   2006-10-25 13:43  

#1  Well this doesn't bode well...
Posted by: Thoth   2006-10-25 13:36  

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