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Britain
More on the Raid: Beheading Plot Was 'Days Away'
2007-01-31
A plot to kidnap and behead a British soldier on videotape was only "days away" and led to the arrests today of nine men in Birmingham, England, a Scotland Yard source tells ABC News.

Most of the nine men are described as British citizens of Pakistani descent who are being held under Britain's new anti-terror laws.
So their names aren't Nigel, Trevor, Ian, and Christian.
A British intelligence source tells ABC News that a British soldier had already been selected as the victim, based on instructions the men allegedly received by e-mail from "outside the country."
My first guess would be from Karachi, though I guess it could have been from Peshawar or Quetta, or even from Lahore or Multan. Shucks, the possibilities are ... ummm... endlessly finite.
The operation began in the pre-dawn hours this morning with police raids at 12 locations in Birmingham. Police said they would not reveal the identities or the ages of those arrested.
Posted by:PlanetDan

#19  Why is that in measuring moderate muslims, anything less than tens of thousands doesnt count, but when we're talking the reality of what it will take to change attitudes to the WOT, noting that 1 death isnt the same as 100 or 1000 suddenly makes me morally despicable?

Because, LH, most of the examples thrown around here are "infidels" to the jihadis as much as we are. Because there's 1.2 BILLION of them, so how hard is it, really, to find several thousand to speak out against the jihadis? And, finally, because as we've said before, we value LIFE more than death. It's a lot "EASIER" to protest against the jihadis than it is to *allow* 1 more death at the hands of these barbarians. Yes, maybe 1 death won't make much difference in tactics, but it d@mn well better keep our nose to the grindstone, stiffen our spine and strengthen our resolve.

Like the President always says, "We have to be right 100% of the time. They only have to be right once."
Posted by: BA   2007-01-31 22:35  

#18  Ooops ... Brett and I overlapped.
Posted by: occasional observer   2007-01-31 21:27  

#17  Folks are missing the plot here, and LH is sending us off down a rabbit trail by focusing on "one soldier".

The key phrase isn't "one soldier" -- it's "Muslim soldier of Pakistani descent". This plot was intended to drive any Muslims out of the British armed forces and further segregate Muslims from mainstream British life.

The public beheading was intended as a warning to all other Muslims that joining the British military (or police etc.) will be punished.
Posted by: occasional observer   2007-01-31 21:26  

#16  LH, their point was ALL about promoting mohammedism in their own, pious way.

It was ALL about showing the dhimmis West that they are so terribly brutal, no one will stand in their way.

It was ALL about creating fear in us and THAT is the issue. Not the number of people, but taking a muslim soldier and brutally murdering him as an example.

We need to respond in-kind. We need to go to "Chicago Rules" and beyond.
Posted by: Brett   2007-01-31 19:15  

#15  In a nutshell, we have to start killing jihdis faster than they are killing us infidels/westerners/jews/buddhists/christians.

This hasn't happened yet.

Yet...
Posted by: Parabellum   2007-01-31 18:29  

#14  Videotaped beheadings, etc. are just recruiting tools rather than terrorism. The would-be jihadis in the markets of Pakistan just can't get enough of them.
Posted by: Anguper Hupomosing9418   2007-01-31 18:21  

#13  Even when these plots don't succeed, the jihad still succeeds by adding a large societal burden. The primary target of the Sept. 11 attacks was the American economy. The WTC and lives lost was secondary. Jihad is a long term weakening and conquest of non-muslim civilizations and the enemy within the most cost effective weapon. The attacks are just the attention grabbing headlines.
Posted by: ed   2007-01-31 18:06  

#12  LH you have to look at this in the context of the global Islamofacism movement. This isn't a single case. It's one of a long stream that includes Beslan & Bali & Thai teachers & UK busses & US airplanes &...........

The question is when will the UK and Europe (and the US left ) awaken to the fact that this is a global war. It is fought with different tactics by the would be Caliphate but they are all connected by their ideology.
Posted by: AlanC   2007-01-31 17:26  

#11  given that the chosen target was a muslim, Im willing that there probably arent that many folks here who respect him more than I do.

BTW, I really love this one person is a world crap from y'all. So do you agree that ONE muslim UK soldier makes anti-muslim shit despicable? Why is that in measuring moderate muslims, anything less than tens of thousands doesnt count, but when we're talking the reality of what it will take to change attitudes to the WOT, noting that 1 death isnt the same as 100 or 1000 suddenly makes me morally despicable?
Posted by: liberalhawk   2007-01-31 17:10  

#10  "LH I respect your writings but I have to ask how many is too many? There's that guy (name escapes me) that recently said that the 3000 of 9/11 didn't compare to the Russkie losses in WWII so our reaction was way out of proportion.

How much is too much?"

One is too many in some level. No murder is acceptable.

An attack that takes 3000 lives, and that easily could have taken several times that, and that destroyed billions of dollars worth of property, and that disrupted the US economy, etc, etc was enough to justify what we did in afghanistan, and taking on AQ globally, etc. IE what we are already doing. Would we have done anything differently if one more individual had died at the WTC? 9/11, and the steady sequence of lesser attacks, are great enough, that I dont see why attacks at individuals would warrant more. Its like there was a ten car pile up at the local intersection, and you build a safety improvement, but not as good a one as some folks want, and then theres a fenderbender and somebody says see, we need a better safety improvement. If 9/11 didnt warrent doing anything more than we are now, why would this?

When will take things MORE seriously than we do now? When theres a second 9/11 or greater in scale, or when low level attacks become as frequent as they were in Israel during the intifadah. Not before then, Im afraid. Hell, at this point the challenge before us is to KEEP the level of concern as high as it has been, and to keep the complacency from growing. And im not talking partisanship here. I was on a subway today, and there was a bag that looked unattended (it turned out to belong to a woman sitting a row back from it) I didnt even notice it, but this more alert woman did and asked if I had noticed who it belonged to - we asked the woman sitting behind, whose bag it turned out to be, and so alls well that ends well. But the point is, this woman who noticed and asked, was APOLEGETIC, said how theyve made us paranoid. I just said, well its no cost to ask, its good we did.

What will it take to get people to again NOT BE APOLEGETIC in a situation like that? More than a foiled plot to kill one person, I fear.

Posted by: liberalhawk   2007-01-31 17:07  

#9  nice downplay LH. I'd bet you'd feel better if it was someone you respected, instead of a military target....say...a Democrat?

cheap shot, I know, but your mewling comment deserved nothing better, and I'm not feeling charitable
Posted by: Frank G   2007-01-31 16:55  

#8  didnt say who cares, but if the point is that this is war, not just crime, I dont think this makes the case. Its disgusting, and Orcish, and all, but so are the horror stories of what pervs do to little kids and all that. Im not in anyway saying we shouldnt be disgusted at this - Im just asking how it indicates that current approaches (which broke up this plot, BTW) arent working?
Posted by: liberalhawk   2007-01-31 16:54  

#7  Aren't the Brit police suppose to discuss raids like this with the local Imam before they occur?

Thought I've read several things like that over the last 6 months.



"...but cmon, a conspiracy to kill one single British soldier?"

LH I respect your writings but I have to ask how many is too many? There's that guy (name escapes me) that recently said that the 3000 of 9/11 didn't compare to the Russkie losses in WWII so our reaction was way out of proportion.

How much is too much?
Posted by: AlanC   2007-01-31 16:54  

#6  Now I think that terrorism should be treated seriously, and this is a war, but cmon, a conspiracy to kill one single British soldier?

Yeah, grabbing someone off the street, torturing him, cutting his head off -- and getting it all on videotape -- who cares?!
Posted by: Rob Crawford   2007-01-31 16:05  

#5  It will take something like a Beslan-style schoole siege to people up. Only then, when people see children cowering in a school gymnasium will this seem real to people. It's very sad.
Posted by: reality check   2007-01-31 15:50  

#4  Excalibur, probably not as long as the cops are able to keep nipping little plots like this in the bud. It must be putting a lot of pressure on the cops. But when the terrorists begin to succeed too often all bets are off.
Posted by: Ebbang Uluque6305   2007-01-31 15:04  

#3  Now I think that terrorism should be treated seriously, and this is a war, but cmon, a conspiracy to kill one single British soldier? Not exactly some vast society shaking act.And it was broken up the police. Which is a good word in favor of CURRENT Brit anti-terr laws and actions (against those on the left who would weaken them), but doesnt exactly indicated theyre deficient.
Posted by: liberalhawk   2007-01-31 15:01  

#2  British citizens of Pakistani descent Muslim terrorists

Fixed it.
Posted by: mcsegeek1   2007-01-31 14:53  

#1  Is there finally a point at which we can start to deal with this with the seriousness it deserves? Is there no final atrocity to get our blood up? Or have we become so enervated, so weak, that we have as much as brought our fate upon ourselves?
Posted by: Excalibur   2007-01-31 14:49  

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