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| India-Pakistan |
| Indian Navy to get 2nd submarine assembly line |
| 2007-02-16 |
| With a view to bolster its undersea fighting capabilities, the Indian Navy is poised to open international bids for acquisition and construction of second range of submarines. "The request for proposals to acquire and build six new range of submarines would be floated shortly," a senior naval official told PTI. In contention would be the Russians with their 4th generation Amur class submarines armed with vertically launched KLUB-S Missiles and new generation of German HDW submarines with their Air Independent propulsion systems. The navy has already firmed up a deal with the French warship builders DCN International for construction of six scorpene submarines at Mazagoan docks in Mumbai. The first of these hunter-killer submarines are expected to roll out by 2011. Naval officials have ruled out equipping any of the six Scorpene submarines with AIP, but Naval Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta has said this capability would be a criteria for the new planned acquisition of six more submarines. However, the navy remains tightlipped about progress of a proposal to acquire two Russian Akula (Bars) class type 971 Nuclear powered submarines, as part of India's nuclear deterrent based on sea, land and air platforms. "We definitely would want to have nuclear submarines because of their long undersea endurance, the decision has to be political," naval officials said. Naval and DRDO scientists have been working on an indigenous nuclear submarines for years, but are cautious to go public on the project labelled Advance Technology Vehicle. According to sources, India may go in for first sea trials of the submarines by 2009. Indian and Russian dockyards have been in negotiation for over three years on the acquisition of the Amur class submarines, which are described as successors to the Indian Navy's Kilo class submarines. Amur's displacement is smaller than Kilo, but its capabilities are stated to be far superior. The Russians have offered to incorporate Rubin-Designed fuell cell AIP in their offer of technology transfer to India. Amur has a displacement of 2000 ton and can attain maximum speed of 21 knots when submerged and 10 knots when surfaced, with a crew of 30 to 34 personnel and an endurance of 45 days. The Russians had designed the new AIP system to be retrofitted to the Indian Navy Sindhughosh class submarines, some of which are currently being upgraded at St Petersburg. However, the navy opted to go in for vertically launched Klub-S missiles instead. The Amur class submarines also sport anti-ship missiles such as SS-N-15 or the SS-N-16 Misslies and a variety of mines and torpedoes. The Russians had designed the new generation Amur class submarines for joint induction into the Indian and Russian navies and the subs are expected to cost significantly less than the Kilo class. However, the Americans could be late entrants for Indian submarine deal and by the time the RFP's are issued in late march or early April, they could also be in the hunt for the Indian deal. On other acquisition prospects, Naval officials said evaluation was currently underway for inducting eight Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft. "Bids from Boeing and Airbus for the long range spy planes and from Lockheed-Martin offering the P3C Orions and Russian IL-38D for the short range requirment are under study," an official said. Navy is also planning to buy 16 helicopters with the option of another eight to replace its ageing Seaking Mk 42s and Seaking Mk42s fleet, which are fast approaching the end of their service life. They said Navy was also acquiring Naval versions of the Hawk jet trainers. |
| Posted by:john |
| #12 I would not be surprised if an effective domestic conventional submarine could not be built. Won't happen, and not simply because of 'corprate whores'. The Navy's nuclear mafia won't permit it. |
| Posted by: Pappy 2007-02-16 21:57 |
| #11 Which is why if there is ever a diesel electric sub built in the US, watch it be built in an old closed shipyard that is brought back on line by the American incorporated branch of a foreign sub builder. And watch them hire non-union/non-Navy projects workers, to ensure quality control. Kind of like the Mercedes or Toyota plants in the South, making the quality cars. |
| Posted by: Shieldwolf 2007-02-16 18:41 |
| #10 The French company DCN, which is building the Scorpene subs is also the design consultant for the aircraft carrier being built in India |
| Posted by: John Frum 2007-02-16 18:39 |
| #9 #7 And only pay the French on delivery. |
| Posted by: gromgoru 2007-02-16 18:28 |
| #8 I would not be surprised if an effective domestic conventional submarine could not be built. U. S. shipbuilders have become dysfunctional corporate welfare whores. Look at the LCS and Zumwalt destroyer. Both are out of control spending boondoggles and the George HW Bush has enough bleeding edge tech to assure it is a catastrophe even greater. The Navy has a real problem. |
| Posted by: Nimble Spemble 2007-02-16 17:42 |
| #7 RE: tech bleedover; probably more correct to say that about bleeding across countries rather than systems, since the workforce is generally 'pigeonholed' on a particular project. Note to India: Don't ask the French to build one; when the prop falls off it will be harder to find a sub than an aircarft carrier sitting dead in the water. |
| Posted by: USN, Ret. 2007-02-16 17:37 |
| #6 Yes it is true that the US has not built diesel electric subs for awhile; however, a couple of the big US defense contractors have major shares in European sub builders, and there is serious talk and planning for diesel electrics to be built in US shipyards for Taiwan. The Taiwanese would need between 8 and 16 subs, but that is being held up due to Taiwanese internal politics. The biggest hindrance for the US building diesel electric subs is the fact that the US Navy does NOT want those subs built in the same shipyards or using any of the same crews as used for the nuclear subs. The Navy is worried about technology bleedover from nuke to conventional. |
| Posted by: Shieldwolf 2007-02-16 17:08 |
| #5 Mike: This would be a logical conclusion but it is not consistent with the reality of engineering cultures and competences. BAe Systems manufacturers top of the line nuclear powered boomers and attack boats but had real trouble with its last round of SSKs (Upholder-class, now renamed for Canada). It is about a whole-systems competence and not as simple as swapping out the engine. |
| Posted by: Excalibur 2007-02-16 16:44 |
| #4 While the US doesn't build diesel boats at present, it wouldn't be hard to get back into that end of the business. The diesel-electric drive in a submarine is technologically not that different from what's in a diesel-electric locomotive, and we build lots of those. We also build lots of high-capacity batteries. The rest of it -- hull, sonar, electric motors, ballast tanks, and so on, is pretty much the same as a nuke boat. |
| Posted by: Mike 2007-02-16 13:18 |
| #3 I can imagine what the Greenpeace folks would make of that. They're strip mining the sea. They're killing the baby dolphins. Please donate. |
| Posted by: john 2007-02-16 13:00 |
| #2 That may change. If US mining companies developed an interest in undersea mining operations, there would be tremendous demand for an entirely new concept in submarines. Not as improbable as it sounds, because undersea are vast amounts of high grade surface mineral and gem deposits that have been mined out on land. This would mean only needing to haul up perhaps 1/20th to 1/50th the amount of ore to be as profitable as a land mine. Already, diamonds are being recovered through dredging, as is gold, in river deltas. However, dredging is impractical at depth. An undersea operation would involve shattering the sea floor with explosives, then a slow moving large boat scooping up the ore, and giving it a first crushing to a manageable size, then transferring it to shuttle submersibles that carry it up to a surface ship. |
| Posted by: Anonymoose 2007-02-16 12:42 |
| #1 However, the Americans could be late entrants for Indian submarine deal and by the time the RFP's are issued in late march or early April, they could also be in the hunt for the Indian deal. One would think that if a reporter's job is reporting of defense matters, he or she would do a little research. It is not difficult to find out that the US does not manufacture conventional submarines. |
| Posted by: john 2007-02-16 11:42 |