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| Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia |
| Russia And Georgia 'At War', Over 1000 Dead |
| 2008-08-08 |
| Russian armored vehicles have entered the northern edges of the capital of the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia, the separatists' press service reported on its website on Friday. "Russian armored vehicles have entered the northern suburbs of Tskhinvali," the website cominf.org reported, adding that Georgian troops had started to retreat. Moscow said its troops were responding to a Georgian assault to re-take the breakaway region, and Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili said the two countries were at war. Russia would cut air links with Georgia from midnight on Friday, the Russian Transport Ministry said. Saakashvili told BBC World television Russia had been massing troops on the northern border of Georgia for months. " They have been calling it training exercises, but they have not been concealing the fact that they are training these troops for use inside Georgia," he said. "The way the escalation went was we came first under extensive artillery barrage from the separatists ... but in the end I was told that Russian armored vehicles started to cross the Georgian border. And that was exactly the moment when I had to take this decision to fire back." The United States on Friday asserted its support for Georgia's territorial integrity and urged an immediate ceasefire. NATO and the European Union have joined calls for a halt to fighting. State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos also said the United States was sending an envoy to the region "to engage with the parties in the conflict." U.S. President George W. Bush discussed the situation with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in Beijing, where world leaders were attending the opening of the Olympic Games, the White House said, giving no further information. A South Ossetia minister said more than a thousand people had died in overnight shelling by Georgian forces of their capital Tskhinvali, Russia's RIA news agency reported. "According to our information, as a result of the night-time shelling of Tskhinvali ... the number of fatalities is more than a thousand," Nationalities Minister Teimuraz Kasaev told the news agency by telephone. A senior Georgian security official said Russian planes had bombed the Vaziani military outside the Georgian capital Tbilisi. The Interior Ministry said later three Georgian soldiers were killed. Political analysts saw Georgia's bid to re-take its rebel region of South Ossetia by force as a gamble by its leader that he could still count on Western support in a clash with Russia. "He is in big danger of losing the cachet he built up for himself in being pro-Western and the restraint he has often shown in the face of provocation by Russia," said James Nixey, analyst at the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London,. "If he is going to start a war, he is going to lose the support of a lot of friends in the West." Saakashvili, who wants to take his small Caucasus nation into NATO, has made it a priority to win back control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another rebel region on the Black Sea. The issue has bedeviled Georgia's relations with Russia, angered by Tbilisi's moves towards the Western fold and its pursuit of NATO membership. As fighting raged, the roar of warplanes and the explosion of heavy shells resounded more than three km (two miles) from Tskhinvali. Many houses were ablaze. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused the Georgians of driving people from their homes. "We are receiving reports that a policy of ethnic cleansing was being conducted in villages in South Ossetia, the number of refugees is climbing, the panic is growing, people are trying to save their lives," he said in televised remarks from the ministry. The crisis, the first to confront Russian President Dmitry Medvedev since he took office in May, has flared in a region emerging as a key energy transit route, and where Russia and the West are vying for influence. It dented sentiment on Russia's benchmark equity index, which fell more than 4 percent to a 14-month low while the rouble lost more than 1 percent against a basket of currencies. Medvedev vowed to defend Russian "compatriots" in South Ossetia, where most people have been given Russian passports. "We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished," Interfax quoted him as saying. The majority of the roughly 70,000 people living in South Ossetia are ethnically distinct from Georgians. They say they were forcibly absorbed into Georgia under Soviet rule and now want to exercise their right to self-determination. |
| Posted by:Anonymoose |
| #24 I doubt Moscow cares about the Muslims in South Ossetia - what Moscow does care about is the Radical Islamist "surges" occuring all along its southern borders and any Islamist intentions/ambitions towards a NEW DESTABILIZATION AND BREAKUP OF POST-USSR RUSSIA. Lest we fergit, VLADVEDEV = RUSSIA > VIEWS AL QAEDA + TALIBAN, etc. AS US PROXIES, HENCE ANY ISLAMIST THREAT TO RUSSIA + FORMER SSRS IS SYNONYMOUS WID "US THREAT" TO SAME. By this scope it would NOt a stretch for Russ to view ISLAMIST IRAN IN SAME LIGHT * WHAT NATION among others] LIES ACROSS THE "BIG WATER" ON THE OTHER SIDE OF GEORGIA > Its NUCLEARIZING ISLAMIST IRAN = RUSS-PERCEIVED "POSSIBLE AMERICAN-PROXY" IRAN??? |
| Posted by: JosephMendiola 2008-08-08 20:57 |
| #23 I've been posting on this much of the day. We just completed a regional military exercise in Georgia. It is likely that the Georgians felt that their military was as ready as possible. "Provocations" have been increasing recently, all on the part of the rebels. Think Mexico giving all the Apaches Mexican citizenship and then declaring that they are intervening to protect the Apaches since they are now "Mexicans". Georgia has light infantry and light mech. Most of its army is US trained and has experienced combat in Iraq. It is unclear how well they perform in anti-armor role but terrain generally is poor for armor. Anti-air is also a question. The 58th Russian Army is the same group that has leveled Chechnya. Don't expect finesse or respect for civilians from these guys. Russia is pulling the same stunt in Moldova, also a US ally, and in the Baltics. The Putin oligarchs intend to ensure that these tiny nations are returned to the Russian sphere of influence, and their excuse will be the "travails" of Russians in those nations. |
| Posted by: Chuck Simmins 2008-08-08 20:22 |
| #22 re: john frum #18 I saw that too and was puzzled ... they keep showing it a lot on Russian tv1. I do know they are not a full member of NATO but do have certain ties to them ... any nfo on that I'd appreciate |
| Posted by: linker 2008-08-08 20:21 |
| #21 Actually, for the Georgians, a few Patriot batteries would suffice. |
| Posted by: OldSpook 2008-08-08 18:36 |
| #20 Anyone want to comment on the usefulness of air superiority and stealth? The US is way too used to owning the air so some think that there is no use for the F-22. Fools. Right now the Georgians would sell their second child for those capabilities. |
| Posted by: tipover 2008-08-08 17:58 |
| #19 The Pipeline |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-08-08 17:53 |
| #18 Is Georgia a member of the EU? On TV, the President was flanked by the Georgian and Euro flags. |
| Posted by: john frum 2008-08-08 17:01 |
| #17 Sad for Russia when you think about it. This tiny little country isn't just surrendering but seems willing to fight for their independence. I imagine every nation surrounding Russia (and within Russia) is watching closely. Sad for Georgia because that means Russia cannot back down. Good thing we have a Soviet/Russian expert as our Secretary of State. Get over their Condi and pull the two dogs apart. |
| Posted by: rjschwarz 2008-08-08 16:39 |
| #16 Crap. Sounds like the Georgian military actually thought that the Russians wouldn't respond to the conquest of the province. What the hell are they smoking up there? |
| Posted by: Mitch H. 2008-08-08 16:38 |
| #15 Telegraph "It's not South Ossetia we are at war with, it's Russia," the company's commander said, shaking his head at the magnitude of his statement. From Vladikavkaz, the capital of adjoining North Ossetia, which lies in Russia, phalanxes of Russian tanks and armoured personnel carriers rumbled towards Tskhinvali to provide ground support. Deeply angry with Georgia's pro-western policies since the Rose Revolution of 2003, Moscow's fury has grown as its neighbour made a concerted push towards Nato membership. This was an explosive message of intent that Georgia, long decried in Moscow as a terrorist state, would be punished - even flattened if need be. As the Russian soldiers advanced, the gunfire and shelling in Tskhinvali once again intensified and it became apparent that the Georgians were in retreat. |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-08-08 16:22 |
| #14 More like the Bear countering US BMD and influence in what used to be their stomping ground. |
| Posted by: lotp 2008-08-08 16:18 |
| #13 Memo to Barack. Georgia is not one of the 57 states you've visited. It's someplace else. Just trying to help. |
| Posted by: tu3031 2008-08-08 16:18 |
| #12 Obama: "I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict," Obama said in a statement. "Now is the time for Seriously, wtf did he just say? |
| Posted by: swksvolFF 2008-08-08 16:16 |
| #11 Georgia's pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili said the two countries were at war. Teased the bear once too often, Mikheil? |
| Posted by: g(r)omgoru 2008-08-08 15:56 |
| #10 Statements of: Bush, McCain, Obama |
| Posted by: 3dc 2008-08-08 15:39 |
| #9 2000 troops in iraq should be flown home, reequipped.......for the threat as it is. |
| Posted by: Spiny Gl 2511 2008-08-08 15:33 |
| #8 Slate had a correspondent come through last spring. Note that a thousand people died during eighteen months of a war which South Ossetians hysterically characterize as "genocide". Also note that a significant fraction of the South Ossetian population is directly employed by Moscow as either soldiers, police, spies, or bureaucrats. I'm willing to bet that a significant fraction of the population not employed by the Russian government was working for that counterfeiting operation which was exposed in 2006. |
| Posted by: Mitch H. 2008-08-08 14:57 |
| #6 Tips for Georgia- Step one: Drive out anyone with Russian citizenship in Ossetia. Step two: Make as big a stink as possible so you can make "Concessions" and end up with more than you started with. Step three: Hamstring on the deal and jump their claim as soon as they stand down. |
| Posted by: Bertie Grise4247 2008-08-08 14:54 |
| #5 What a stupid decision of the Europe to trade Kosovo for Georgia. Europe's armchair strategists have a very big mouth but not the military guts to support their actions.The Russians have the guts and outsmarted the West on this one. More important is that when Georgia will become Russian again the Europeans have to bend over as most of their energy supplies will be controlled by Russia. Well done European bureaucrats. |
| Posted by: Woodrow Elmusoger4367 2008-08-08 14:34 |
| #4 Up next: Ossetian media puppets earnestly report Georgian troops tossing Russian babies on bayonet-point in Tskhinvali. |
| Posted by: Mitch H. 2008-08-08 14:21 |
| #3 Oh, bollocks. The only way you could kill a thousand civilians with a 24,000-man army in a single night would be if you shelled & then machine-gunned a large-scale open-field demonstration, and even then I suspect you wouldn't see so many fatalities. Especially not in a province with less than a hundred thousand inhabitants. The only way a thousand people die in a day is if the 58th Army decides to play Kitchner's-New-Army-at-the-Somme against a dug-in Georgian force in favorable terrain. |
| Posted by: Mitch H. 2008-08-08 14:20 |
| #2 I think I'm counting on the |
| Posted by: Fred 2008-08-08 14:13 |
| #1 Trust no one for a while regarding happenings in Georgia. Something is happening, but it won't be possible to know exactly what; information that gets out will be slanted every which way. If it doesn't make sense, you probably don't know the whole story. |
| Posted by: Glenmore 2008-08-08 14:08 |